454 Redhawk Pressures

[buckeye]

Got super Redhawk .454 as an early Xmas gift. I'm looking only at starting loads to work up. Looking at some of the pressures on some of these loads I see that many are 45,000-55,000 CUP.Thats alot of pressure to me! I know to look for pressure signs on cases and difficult extraction. I'm wondering what would be the maximum pressure that I can safely use in the Super Redhawk? Ruger tells you to use Factory SAAMI info only. I know of no one who shoots this caliber that uses factory ammo. Who can afford to? Any help would be appreciated-Thanks

[Larry Gibson]

Buckeye

There is a difference between C.U.P. and PSI. The CUP MAP (Maximum Average pressure)is around 45,000+. I've seen several but 50,000 CUP is the maximum I've seen. SAAMI lists a PSI of 57,000 for a MAP. Just advising to be careful when comparing pressure figures. Lyman's current #48 reloading manual lists both jacketed and cast loads for the .454 along with pressures in CUP.

Larry Gibson

[leadhead 500]

I had a Super Redhawk in a 454 with a 7 1/2" barrel.I shot two loads in it with cast bullets and they was real strokers.First was the Lee 300 grain flatnose with
cci primers and 29 grains of 296 winchester.The second load was a real handful to shoot,it was a 325 grain Keith type bullet,CCI primers and 30 grains of H-110.I put over 3000 rounds of the Keith bullets thru it and never had a problem at all.
The Redhawk is a tough gun and I think you will be very happy with it.Just make sure that you keep ahold of it when you drop the hammer on some of the heavy
loads recoil is pretty stout.

[454PB]

While caution is always a good thing, the Ruger SRH in .454 Casull was thoroughly tested by Carpenter (the company Ruger contracted with for metal development) to pressures far higher than any prudent handloader would use. I was going to post a link to their web site story about that testing, but it has been removed. I have the report in "Word" format if you would like it. Send me an e-mail address and I'll send it to you. It is too large a file to be sent via the forum.

[shotman]

try 6 factoy round and see if they will eject from cylinder. then you can go from there You cant push cast that hot. I had 2 and got rid of both and got a good gun S&W460

[Heavy lead]

I have a SRH in 7.5 inch, I do not push this gun hard, maybe I can, but I don't. Most I have ever pushed it is 29.5 grains of 296 with a WSR and a 310 Lee gas check. Shot well, but not a book max load. I mainly shoot heavy 45 colt loads out of the gun (using 454 brass, not colt brass) and it is a fine shooter. Very good trigger pull (with a little work) and a fine, fine da pull. I know most guys do not shoot the biguns da, but I do, I practice this all the time and when I brush hunt I use this rather than my single action. I think you will like it.

[Whitworth]

SAAMI spec for the .454 is 62,000 psi and if I can recall, the SRH was tested to 120,000 psi without failure. It is one STOUT piece and your 460 Smith will stretch itself at those pressure levels. There is no DA revolver in existence that is stronger than the SRH. Corbon has factory loads that go 70,000 psi. Now, that said, there is no real or practical reason to push 'em that hard. I have never seen game impressed by muzzle energy, but large diameter, heavy, flat-nosed bullets sure do get their attention.

[454PB]

I have sent the attachment to those that requested it.

I agree with Whitworth. The .454 has more power than is needed on this continent, but I have gone up to 1500 fps. with a cast 330 gr. GC boolit. It's not needed, but it's available.

[unclebill]

SAAMI spec for the .454 is 62,000 psi and if I can recall, the SRH was tested to 120,000 psi without failure. It is one STOUT piece and your 460 Smith will stretch itself at those pressure levels. There is no DA revolver in existence that is stronger than the SRH. Corbon has factory loads that go 70,000 psi. Now, that said, there is no real or practical reason to push 'em that hard. I have never seen game impressed by muzzle energy, but large diameter, heavy, flat-nosed bullets sure do get their attention.

i thought Freedom Arms got the strongest gun designation?
lord knows they cost enough.

[44man]

i thought Freedom Arms got the strongest gun designation?
lord knows they cost enough.
I think you will find that the BFR's are the strongest guns made today. Ruger makes the castings and the cylinders are much thicker then the SRH and Freedom.
The .454 is fine for a smaller revolver but it needs so much pressure to get velocity. My 45-70 BFR has reached 1800 fps with a 317 gr boolit with under 30,000 psi. My normal loads are 1632 fps. Open the gate and empties fall out.
I know you can't compare them because of the difference in gun and cartridge size but if you go to the BFR in .454, that is where you can compare power, accuracy and strength with the SRH.
But if you ever hurt a SRH you better quit reloading! [smilie=l:

[Whitworth]

Strongest DA revolver is what I said......... You will not hurt one......

[unclebill]

Strongest DA revolver is what I said......... You will not hurt one......

i stand corrected.:drinks:

[LqChrome]

I'm waiting for Ruger to bring out a .460 THAT will be sweeet!!

[Lloyd Smale]

9 times out of 10 you will run into sticky extraction with a srh before you even come close to full pressure or any kind of pressure that will hurt it.

[felix]

Yes, that is part of the design of that gun in particular. Great observation on your part, Lloyd!
Bill Ruger wanted a 6 hole gun instead of the 5 holer for that caliber, and found a company who would come up with a steel for the cylinder especially that would expand and contract upon firing 55K cup loads. Bill's typical 4140 variation would not work in a 6 hole configuration via observed micro fractures. Reportedly, the steel design (by a newly hired grad student, by the way) was made public for any and all companies to use as an advancement in the gun making art. That is why the article was published for any one to see. It was in some metallurgy rag I picked up at the office way back when. ... felix

[44man]

OK, all of you .454 guys. One was brought here for me to work up some loads for. I only have Fed SR primers. I made up loads with a decent starting load of 296 and my Lyman 325 gr boolit that actually casts at 347 gr's.
I have tight neck tension and a good firm crimp. 3 out of 6 were squibs and I had to pound out the boolits. A pop and a little smoke. These primers do not have enough heat but drove the boolits an inch or more into the barrel.
Will Rem 7-1/2's work better or should I go to the CCI SR mag primer?
Just going to a very tight crimp will not solve this because if I have to depend on crimp alone for ignition my accuracy will suffer.
This is my first time with the .454 and the first time ever in around 57 years for a squib load. It is not cold outside either.
My .44 and .45, with fed 150's are shooting great with 296.
My opinion is they should have gone with LR pockets in the .454. This looks like a borderline condition that can ruin accuracy fast.

[felix]

Use the remmie BR primer: 7.5. ... felix

[Heavy lead]

OK, all of you .454 guys. One was brought here for me to work up some loads for. I only have Fed SR primers. I made up loads with a decent starting load of 296 and my Lyman 325 gr boolit that actually casts at 347 gr's.
I have tight neck tension and a good firm crimp. 3 out of 6 were squibs and I had to pound out the boolits. A pop and a little smoke. These primers do not have enough heat but drove the boolits an inch or more into the barrel.
Will Rem 7-1/2's work better or should I go to the CCI SR mag primer?
Just going to a very tight crimp will not solve this because if I have to depend on crimp alone for ignition my accuracy will suffer.
This is my first time with the .454 and the first time ever in around 57 years for a squib load. It is not cold outside either.
My .44 and .45, with fed 150's are shooting great with 296.
My opinion is they should have gone with LR pockets in the .454. This looks like a borderline condition that can ruin accuracy fast.

I use WSR Winchesters with a lot of 296 and the Lee WFNGC310 grain boolit and have never had an issue with the load in either a Raging Bull or the SRH. I use Fed 205's in my light 10 grains of Unique under a 270SAA RCBS at 290 grains. I started using the WSR because I always had good luck with WLR's and WLRM's with ball powder in rifle loads and never had a problem.
Don't know what to tell ya.

[44man]

Thanks guys, I need to get to the gun shop.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive had the best luck with accuracy in about all the 454s ive loaded for with ww small rifle primers.
Thanks guys, I need to get to the gun shop.

[454PB]

Lloyd, you might recall my post on a similar problem:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=20838&highlight=454+Casull+squib

[44man]

I posted a lot on that one but because I never had a squib load,of any kind and though most was right about tension, it also was not the total answer. I found that out with this first time loading the .454. All the loads we shot out of another friends gun were loaded by him. They all worked.
The loads I am now making have heavy boolits, hard lead, good crimp and very tight tension. I also wipe booit bases. So most of what has been gone over can be eliminated from what I am getting.
One thing is that the SP Fed primers I have are old and may have been from the batch they had trouble with.
The Rem 7-1/2 primer might also be hotter but I need to buy some.
The brass was filled to the base of the boolit too, no air space.
I had the same thing with a plug of powder behind the boolit. A small amount had a color change from heat but it just a small portion. Looked like it was heated with an iron like a burned shirt.
My take is not enough heat and fire from the primers.
My very first shot was a squib and the boolit was just into the forcing cone far enough so the gun could be opened. The powder was still in the case. The next 2 had room behind the boolit so the powder was in the barrel. The powder was packed from primer pressure.

[Lloyd Smale]

ill add one more possiblity to this and it just happened to me with another buddys srh i loaded for. The load was 29 grains of 296 and a 320 lfn. Primer was a cci small rifle mag. He was getting missfires and squibs. My first thought was a bad batch of primers until i tried about 30 of them in my FA and they went off just fine and shot great. Super redhawks are notorious for week hammer fall. Especially if they have had any kind of action work done on them. Some of the shots wiht his gun were a light pop. the primer was getting hit lightly and was not totally igniting. I switched the load over to fed small rifle std primers and he never had a squib or missfire again. take a look at the squib rounds and see if possibly your getting a lighter primer strike.
44man i agree with you on case tension. I totally agree on your thought on case tension and crimp strenght and what it does to accuracy but to have a sqib load something alot more drastic is wrong with the load then that.

[NHlever]

Don't you just love that single spring arrangement! I had thought when that first showed up that perhaps they should have used a cam on the hammer side like a compound bow..... Actually, having handled a PA LDA I think that is what they did.

[44man]

Don't you just love that single spring arrangement! I had thought when that first showed up that perhaps they should have used a cam on the hammer side like a compound bow..... Actually, having handled a PA LDA I think that is what they did.
The SRH does not use one spring. It has two.
Lloyd, that was the first thing I looked at and primers were struck hard and deep. Hammer fall seems normal so I don't think the springs were changed.

[Tn_River_Ratt]

Had a similar situation with my SRH. Tried a Wilson spring kit and went back to the factory hammer spring and the problem went away.

Ratt

[Lloyd Smale]

the one i had the problem with had stock springs in it too and some of the missfires and squibs looked like shallow hits and some looked marginaly good but the switch to ww primers cured it and it didnt misfire in over a 100 rounds.

[44man]

OK, some progress. I didn't want to drive a 50 mi trip for primers so I loaded some with the CCI 450's. I started above a minimum load and with the next higher charge of 23 gr's I had one hang fire, a thud bang. Groups were dismal with boolits all over the place. Since I am also looking for sticky brass I didn't go too high yet. But at 24.5 gr it finally started to tighten with 5 in 1-3/4" at 50 yd's. Brass fell out so I am going higher. I do not know how high I can go with a 347 gr boolit yet.
I still think they should have gone with a LR primer. My thought is flame duration with SR primers is the big problem. They just burn out too fast. It is like passing your hand over a flame fast. Residual pressure pushes the boolit out but the flame is gone. Even the magnum primer is not all that good. Good depressions in them from the hammer though.
The gun is working better since I took it apart and put action lube and oil in it. Whoever built up this gun left it dry inside after polishing all of the internal parts and jeweling the hammer and trigger. The trigger pull is MUCH better.

[454PB]

I too have had problems with a weak main spring in my Ruger SRH. CCI 450 primers will not fire reliably in it, but work fine in my Taurus RB and F.A. 83. I looked for a heavier spring on the Wilson web site, but they didn't show one.

However, in the thread I started about squibs, I was using CCI 400 primers. The boolit was about halfway down the barrel. Obviously there was enough brisance in the primer to push it that far. Also, the powder was found tightly packed behind the boolit. not inside the empty case.

Unlike 44man, I prefer magnum primers with H-110, WW 296, and WC 820. I've reported here before that I once had a boolit stick in the barrel of a Ruger SBH in .44 magnum.....and fired another round behind it! Neither I nor the gun was damaged, other than a bloody thumb web due to the recoil. A real testament to the strength of Rugers. The load was a Lyman 429244 255 gr. boolit, 23 grains of H-110, and a CCI 350 primer. However, this happened during an Elk hunt at temperatures around 20 degrees. That same Ruger fired another 10,000 rounds of the same recipe without incident, but it made me very cautious and aware of the "peculiarities" of slow burning ball powders. It's certainly what stopped me from doing the same thing with the squib in my SRH .454.

[Lloyd Smale]

i like mag primers with 110 and aa9/820 too but ive never seen them nessisary in a 454 using small rifle primers. Ive never seen a load that was a published load that didnt give good velocity spreads with a ww primer.

[Whitworth]

Don't you just love that single spring arrangement! I had thought when that first showed up that perhaps they should have used a cam on the hammer side like a compound bow..... Actually, having handled a PA LDA I think that is what they did.

You may be thinking Redhawk..........

[NHlever]

The SRH does not use one spring. It has two.
Lloyd, that was the first thing I looked at and primers were struck hard and deep. Hammer fall seems normal so I don't think the springs were changed.

Yes, of course the SRH has two springs. For some reason I had Redhawk on the brain when I typed that! :-( I certainly should know that since I spent lots of intimate time with the Redhawk at the prototype stage.

[bigdog454]

I too have had stuck bullets wit the 454 SRH, using CCI sr primers. I switched to WIN WSR and no more problems. The worst was with 1680 powder. I switched to WSR primers before I tried 296 powder so I had no problems with it.
BD

[jwp475]

The cci primer I believe has a tougher cup, also I've expereince the sam problem that LLoyd decribed and mine had a shorter than normal firing pin pertrusion