How to determine correct impact velocity for WFNGC designs ?

[boatbum101]

I'm sure much of this depends on caliber / alloy / intended range & game . Let me state what I wish to do & let you gents tell me what you think about how to get there . My primary game is feral hogs in medium to heavy cover @ max 100yds , majority will probably be shorter . Calibers will be 357 mag , 357 Max , 41 mag & 44 mag . With the exception of the 41 rest are T/C Encores with MGM 20" barrels , 41 is a Henry BBS . Twist rates are 1 in 16" for both 357's , 1 in 18.75" for the 41 & 1 in 20" for the 44 . I want pass thru & be able to take shoulder shots as crawling thru the bushes after a wounded hog aint on my bucket list . Alloy to start is ACWW.
1) 357 mag with LBT / NOE 180 WFNGC from a 20" barrel 1700 to 1800fps is possible & this bullet should work well at that speed I believe . I'm probably harder alloywise than I need but until I've gained experience with this load I can see going softer won't hurt within reason .
2) 357 Max with same 180 from a 20" wow 2200 is possible but I believe might be too much with this bullet . Am seriously considering a 200 to keep velocity down some . With the 180 might be better served with a little faster or slower powder choice to also keep speed in check hmmm .
3) 41 mag also from a 20" . Levergun so I went with a LBT 240 LFNGC & I also have some 240 WFNGC ( if they'll chamber ? ) The LFN chambers & feeds . I believe 1700 is doable & both bullets should work at that speed .
4) 44 mag with LBT 260 WFNGC out a 20" I believe 1700fps is possible , but is that too fast ? Would 1500 work better ? If so again would it be better to use a faster like Enforcer or a case full of slower like 1680 , RL7 etc. ?
Maybe I'm overthinking all this but with cast sometimes slower kills faster . Jacketed just the opposite if you match bullet to game intended .

[375RUGER]

You gave a lot of good information except what alloy you are using.

[boatbum101]

Sorry went back & added that . ACWW to start is easiest for me . Can adjust down the road .

[Dinny]

Personally I see no reason to push any of your bullets past 1800fps at those ranges. I shoot powdercoated bullets and have recently cast them from dead soft pure lead. There might not be a better killer than a soft alloy and a wide meplat!

Thanks, Dinny

[megasupermagnum]

Since when can a bullet become too fast to be effective? Inside of 100 yards the ballistic coefficient of the bullet will not have a huge impact on final velocity. For example, lets say a 250 grain 44 bullet starts at 1600 fps, with a BC of .14, which would be rather typical. At 100 yards it would be traveling about 1208 fps. If we took that same bullet and said it had a BC of .2, which would be spectacular, although not likely for a 250 grain, it would end up at about 1308 fps at 100 yards.

If you are worried that the velocity may expand the bullet and reduce the penetration, the solution is simple. Quench the bullets. If I were you, I wouldn't do anything but find the most accurate possible load for those rifles.

[bmortell]

i wouldn't say you need to lower speed for anything unless its for accuracy. with acww and a wide flat point expansion will probably just begin at around 1300 so the speeds your talking youd probably get wide mushrooms so the only question is it so wide that your getting less penetration than you want. maybe the faster ones you could quench or for a middle ground mix half with pure and quench. if you can test with water jugs you could decide 3 jugs is enough or whatever and base hardness by what gets that amount.

[dhom]

Veral wrote a book about it.

[gunarea]

Hey boatbum101
dhom gave you the definitive answer! My home nearer central Florida is feral pig central. We kill them wholesale. You are absolutely correct! Overthinking. Here is the secret. Bigger is better. In 357, 200gr @12 to 14 hundred fps kills them DIT. In larger calibers, bigger not faster, is most effective. My personal choice is 44 mag. A Keith 429421 at 1250 from an old model super Blackhawk puts them down regardless of precise placement. They are animals and have no magical power protecting them. Lousy shots and adrenaline rushes give the pig its mystic abilities. Granted a pig is more fearsome than a deer, but it is an animal. Go kill a dozen or so and they don't loom so dangerous. I know.
Roy

[DougGuy]

Use the most boolit you can shoot accurately. Gunarea hit the nail on the head. WFN is already a lethal choice. Use the biggest meplat you can find. LBT and similar are the best wide meplat designs for nailing a game animal to the planet beneath it's hooves.

Personally I shoot handguns and my choices in velocity are to be right at or just under 1200fps when it hits hide. I don't plan on recovering any boolits, there won't be a ton of expansion, maybe none, but there will be a complete pass thru and a 44 caliber boolit is already the size of a smaller boolit expanded when it starts out. I also don't own anything for close range thick woods hunting that doesn't start with a 4, so I see absolutely no place for anything smaller in hunting pigs. Dirty Harry didn't carry a 44 because he thought the larger bore made the barrel lighter. If you don't want to go after a wounded animal, my suggestion would be leave the 35 calibers at home. Not that they won't kill, but the odds of a quick kill from a devastating wound channel drop considerably with lesser boolits.

[Screwbolts]

Hey boatbum101
dhom gave you the definitive answer! My home nearer central Florida is feral pig central. We kill them wholesale. You are absolutely correct! Overthinking. Here is the secret. Bigger is better. In 357, 200gr @12 to 14 hundred fps kills them DIT. In larger calibers, bigger not faster, is most effective. My personal choice is 44 mag. A Keith 429421 at 1250 from an old model super Blackhawk puts them down regardless of precise placement. They are animals and have no magical power protecting them. Lousy shots and adrenaline rushes give the pig its mystic abilities. Granted a pig is more fearsome than a deer, but it is an animal. Go kill a dozen or so and they don't loom so dangerous. I know.
Roy

Yes , I totally agree with Verel Smiths formula for DV . It has worked wonderfully.

WWG1WGA,

Ken

[375RUGER]

Straight WW will work just fine. Me I'd likely cut in pure PB, some even add a little tin. After you find an accurate load -Soak up some wet news print, or use gallon jugs of water lined up, or clay blocks or live hogs, and start shooting. This will give you the empirical data you seek to answer your question about what happens on impact.

[GLynn41]

An ACWW .41 cal 255 @ 1300 will go through a 230# boar from most angles so your 240 gr ought to be a honker

[Ramjet-SS]

WFN is a fantastic design I have shot at least 100 deer using that design 376 diameter to 475 Linebaugh they are lethal but 99% of the time 1200-1800 FPS resulted in less than 40 yards of ground after impact most were bang flop.

[bmortell]

WFN is a fantastic design I have shot at least 100 deer using that design 376 diameter to 475 Linebaugh they are lethal but 99% of the time 1200-1800 FPS resulted in less than 40 yards of ground after impact most were bang flop.

with expansion or to hard to expand from the velocities?

[41mag]

Using calibers ranging from 41mag up to 454 i have used cast Keith type or WFN type cast to smite plenty of feral hogs. Most, if not all, were cast with straight WW or similar alloy.

My velocity ranges from around 1150fps up to 1550'ish for the 454. I've never recovered a cast cast bullet to date, they just don't stop. Shots have ranged from hair burning close to out past 80yds or so with equal results, bang, flop with the occasional somersault or two thrown in for giggles when they are in full sprint mode.

I have loaded and carried my GP100's with 160ish grain slugs but usually only when we were chasing dogs. No need for the big boomers up close where the added power isn't needed. Usually the shots are within a foot or so and placed in behind or between the ears.

I'd say load for accuracy like the rest and let the lead fly. BTW- don't worry one bit about over harvesting them hogs, no way you gonna even dent the population, but DO try as hard as you can.:bigsmyl2:

[Ramjet-SS]

with expansion or to hard to expand from the velocities?

My alloy mix is 16 lbs plumbers lead to 2 lbs Linotype it’s actually pretty soft.

I will be doing some testing of some 275 grain WFN in wet news print with my Henry Original 45 LC and a real nice WFN CG at around 1200.

That said I have a 420 Grain 476 diameter LBT mound for the 480 Ruger and that will penetrate with this formula through 48” of water soaked news print and magazines.

I will tell you this; even driven fast and I have driven a 255 grain WFN from a 375 GNR #2 running 2400 FPS and it dropped a one horn 4 point in its tracks the internal damage was pretty darn extensive to the lungs and heart.

[Larry Gibson]

"Maybe I'm overthinking all this"...……

Yup...…...

[KCcactus]

You might want to consider aiming for the neck instead of the shoulder. Draw a line from the base of the ear to the front shoulder and put it on that line. They drop in a heap. And, you have less meat damage. The first pig I shot with my 6.8spc, I double lunged. It ran over 1/4 mile and I found the remains on my neighbor's place a month later. The one standing behind it was hit in the spine and dropped in place. I found info on-line about aiming for the neck and the next 20+ were bang-flop.

[William Yanda]

Straight WW will work just fine. Me I'd likely cut in pure PB, some even add a little tin. After you find an accurate load -Soak up some wet news print, or use gallon jugs of water lined up, or clay blocks or live hogs, and start shooting. This will give you the empirical data you seek to answer your question about what happens on impact.

It is my understanding that balancing the tin and antimony makes a tougher bullet. At any rate, that is what I plan to do for myself. Without analysis, its just a guess anyway.

[6pt-sika]

I generally only load GC in the 357 or 44 Mag and I usually load with H110 or W296 pushing them as hard as I’m able to . The same bullets I use in the 44 Mag I use in the 444 Marlin rifles and they get pushed harder there with excellent results on paper and deer . My alloy is straight air cooled WW’s .

[shortlegs]

A friend made a high shoulder shot at around 75 yds on a 300 lb hog with a 255 gr lee that I loaded for him. Velocity was 1338 if I remember correctly. Hog dropped at the shot and never moved. He said boolit went through both shoulders and kept going.

[taco650]

I'm sure much of this depends on caliber / alloy / intended range & game . Let me state what I wish to do & let you gents tell me what you think about how to get there . My primary game is feral hogs in medium to heavy cover @ max 100yds , majority will probably be shorter . Calibers will be 357 mag , 357 Max , 41 mag & 44 mag . With the exception of the 41 rest are T/C Encores with MGM 20" barrels , 41 is a Henry BBS . Twist rates are 1 in 16" for both 357's , 1 in 18.75" for the 41 & 1 in 20" for the 44 . I want pass thru & be able to take shoulder shots as crawling thru the bushes after a wounded hog aint on my bucket list . Alloy to start is ACWW.
1) 357 mag with LBT / NOE 180 WFNGC from a 20" barrel 1700 to 1800fps is possible & this bullet should work well at that speed I believe . I'm probably harder alloywise than I need but until I've gained experience with this load I can see going softer won't hurt within reason .
2) 357 Max with same 180 from a 20" wow 2200 is possible but I believe might be too much with this bullet . Am seriously considering a 200 to keep velocity down some . With the 180 might be better served with a little faster or slower powder choice to also keep speed in check hmmm .
3) 41 mag also from a 20" . Levergun so I went with a LBT 240 LFNGC & I also have some 240 WFNGC ( if they'll chamber ? ) The LFN chambers & feeds . I believe 1700 is doable & both bullets should work at that speed .
4) 44 mag with LBT 260 WFNGC out a 20" I believe 1700fps is possible , but is that too fast ? Would 1500 work better ? If so again would it be better to use a faster like Enforcer or a case full of slower like 1680 , RL7 etc. ?
Maybe I'm overthinking all this but with cast sometimes slower kills faster . Jacketed just the opposite if you match bullet to game intended .


Sounds like you've got plenty of good loads already. Use whichever is the most accurate and get hunting!

[WinchesterM1]

With a WFN I would say velocity should be moving lol those things are killers!!