.40 S&W (yet another caliber)

[Dieselhorses]

Here goes nothing. Seems every time I load for a new caliber, it's like discovering another planet. Long story short, I'm loading .40 S&W with Unique (4.7-5.8 gn range) for a 175 gn SWC (#401638 175 gr. #2 Alloy 1.100" OAL). On the contrary, every time I notice the powder fill most of case after first charge I measure the depth from neck to powder and compare it to the boolits I'm using. Considering a 1.1" OAL seems the starting charge is right near the base of boolit. Also my brass is within spec (.845"). My question is, is how does Unique operate under "close confines"?

[44Blam]

No idea on Unique. But I am pretty sure it'll do the job...

But, I really like AA#7 in 40 S&W.

I also like the NOE HTC 402 188 for a boolit... I cast these in a cup point and they are right around 175 grain.

They look like this:
261993

[Dieselhorses]

No idea on Unique. But I am pretty sure it'll do the job...

But, I really like AA#7 in 40 S&W.

I also like the NOE HTC 402 188 for a boolit... I cast these in a cup point and they are right around 175 grain.

Thanks, having a hard time finding a mold other than the Lee 90433 (175 gn SWC).

[downzero]

1.1" is quite short. I believe SAAMI max for .40 is about the same as 9mm (1.169"). That said, I load to 1.180-1.200" for my .40 (2011 style). If I was going to load as short as you are, I would be very careful about the powder charge I used and work up very carefully.

[Dieselhorses]

1.1" is quite short. I believe SAAMI max for .40 is about the same as 9mm (1.169"). That said, I load to 1.180-1.200" for my .40 (2011 style). If I was going to load as short as you are, I would be very careful about the powder charge I used and work up very carefully.

That's what I was getting at. I seated one at 1.135 and shoulder of bullet was peaking out of neck about 1/8"-did the plunk test and fell in chamber (slide locked open), no problem.

[44MAG#1]

I load for a 40 S&W some. I go by how far a bullet goes into the case at proper OAL. This has been discussed, discussed more and reiterated much. What OAL you wind up with for your cartridge to pass the plunk test then be sure to check how deep the bullet seats. Compare to a factory 180 grain for reference. I use factory ammo in most of my handguns as reference ammo on the dimensions etc. Jacketed bullets depth can be referenced as far as seating depth compared to cast seating depth to help you.
I use a Hornady 200 XTP and it seats deep. Am going to get a mold made by Mountain Molds soon. It will be 200 grains too.
If your bullet seats no deeper than a bullet in loading data (reliable loading data) and the data says that range of Unique start low and work up and don't worry about the level of the powder.
If you can get by using a longer OAL do that too.

[1006]

I have never used unique in the 40, but I have loaded a few 170 SWC’s. Looking at the notes, I was at 1.125 COAL.

I imagine you have read all about the sensitivity that the 40 has for bullet setback- the pressures can rise rapidly as the COAL is reduced. I tend to load them lighter than the max, and crimp them firmly in place.

There are a number of powders that work well in the forty. Of all the ones that I have used, Universal Clays left me with the best impression. It is very accurate, can make plenty of power, and clean.

[Ed_Shot]

Lyman 4th Ed. Handbook pg. 263: "Lyman 401638 COAL 1.100" Unique 4.7~5.8". I don't happen to use Unique for 40 SW but my G22 w/LW barrel is happy with the 401638 at a COAL of 1.100" using Promo or WSF. By all means use the longest COAL that suits your chamber but I personally trust Lyman data. My favorite mold for both 40 SW and 10MM is the Lyman 401043.

[jonp]

I've been trying out Power Pistol in my SW M&P .40 , it's very flashy and I'm not really impressed. Someone gave me most of a pound. Not sure what to do with the rest as I'm moving onto other powders

[Dieselhorses]

Most accurate results with a powder (as far as book said) was N340. Have a lot of powder but not N340 so I went with Unique which everybody raves about. I find it's one of the more difficult powders to meter for some reason through a Uniflow.

[44MAG#1]

I have been using Hodgdons Longshot and am liking it immensely. Meters pretty well (better than Unique) and am liking PowerPistol too.
Just my opinion though. Plus both will do pretty well in 10MM's too. Although so far I am liking AA#9 in the 10's.

[fredj338]

Here goes nothing. Seems every time I load for a new caliber, it's like discovering another planet. Long story short, I'm loading .40 S&W with Unique (4.7-5.8 gn range) for a 175 gn SWC (#401638 175 gr. #2 Alloy 1.100" OAL). On the contrary, every time I notice the powder fill most of case after first charge I measure the depth from neck to powder and compare it to the boolits I'm using. Considering a 1.1" OAL seems the starting charge is right near the base of boolit. Also my brass is within spec (.845"). My question is, is how does Unique operate under "close confines"?
I love Unique in the 40. Many do NOT understand the whole dynamic of powder compression. Compressing powders isn't always bad. It depends on the powder & the charge wt. I have compressed Unique in 9mm with heavy bullets, just not an issue. I don't think 40 is any diff, I just haven't gotten a load that compresses Unique in 40 yet. There are some powders you can compress 110% & not have pressure issue because they are so slow.
OAL, also horribly misunderstood. Pretty much forget what the data shows you. OAL is always gun & bullet specific. So I load for the longest OAL that fits my gun with my bullet. Then work the powder charge up. In 40, most bullets, I load everything to the max of 1.130".

[gwpercle]

I get best 9mm accuracy with Unique also .
First time I was charging cases with 4.8 grs. I wondered if there was enough room for the boolit , there is ... in fact I worked up to a max. load of 5.2 grs. My pet heavy 9mm load is
NOE 358-124-TC-GC w/ 5.2 grs. Unique @ 1160 fps does nicely .
Unique, being a flake powder, must not be as bulky as it looks or is not sensitive to being slightly compressed .
Gary

[Dieselhorses]

Now I feel somewhat more comfortable with this. Forgot to mention I was loading for a 3rd gen. Glock 22. (NOPD trade in). Not sure if these are more or less forgiving than a 1911. Anyway, I'll cheat a little on OAL and see what happens.

[Hanzy4200]

Why in earth would you load the .40 S&W. Just kidding. Kinda.

[djohns28]

i like TiteGroup for 40. It meters very will for me. I plan to work up some longshot since I'm loading it in shot shells.

[Dieselhorses]

Why in earth would you load the .40 S&W. Just kidding. Kinda.

I understand your point as you can usually find large quantities at good prices. But since I do cast and load my own .223 rounds it costs me less about a third of what I'd pay for factory plus my hand loads are predictable.

[Dieselhorses]

Thanks to everyone for advice. In reference to finding a mold, I ordered one of the LAST one's from flee-bay with handles (90433). Matter of fact, it's slim pickings now everywhere. So it's been mentioned that Unique, Titegroup, AA#7, Universal Clays and some others but has anyone actually used Vihtavuori N340?

[Dieselhorses]

I load for a 40 S&W some. I go by how far a bullet goes into the case at proper OAL. This has been discussed, discussed more and reiterated much. What OAL you wind up with for your cartridge to pass the plunk test then be sure to check how deep the bullet seats. Compare to a factory 180 grain for reference. I use factory ammo in most of my handguns as reference ammo on the dimensions etc. Jacketed bullets depth can be referenced as far as seating depth compared to cast seating depth to help you.
I use a Hornady 200 XTP and it seats deep. Am going to get a mold made by Mountain Molds soon. It will be 200 grains too.
If your bullet seats no deeper than a bullet in loading data (reliable loading data) and the data says that range of Unique start low and work up and don't worry about the level of the powder.
If you can get by using a longer OAL do that too.

I agree, there's been much discussion on here about seating depth. I did do some research and found interesting posts about guys loading .308 with 15 gn's of Unique using no fillers and then some that do use fillers. But that's another can of worms. Anyhow, bullets chamber in the 40 I'm loading with lengths up to 1.17" and still comfortably fit chamber/mag. So I settled on 1.14". I did charge a case to the max of 5.8 gn's and at 1.14" OAL the base is right at powder.

[Texas by God]

I found the .40 to be a pleasure to load with cast( unlike the 9mm) but I only used Bullseye for mine.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I use etr7 as it was available when I started loading 40 s&w , I look through loading manuals , compare and then start working up a load .

Length comes into play for me with what fits and chambers , have not used Unique in 40 caliber , and since I ran out I am going with other powders for the time being in calibers I used it for.

Started tumble lubing 40 s&w and am now powder coating for the Glocks , models 22 27 and 35 , fun caliber , molds I am using are MP and NOE , hollow points , 155 to 185 grain , Those police trade ins are mostly good buys .

[Jniedbalski]

I have been using HS 6 in my 40 loads. Lee mold 175 gr tc bullet.it worked good in the pistole and the carbine. I usually start at the beginning ening load and work up. I found out hs6 and the higher loads produced better accuracy. The closer I got to the top loads the group started to srink

[mvintx]

I'm about to embark on loading cast for .40 and 10mm with the Lyman 401638 and one of Miha's 165 grain molds as soon as Lathesmith's powder funnel shows up. I wish some folks would report results for that Miha 165 mold.

I picked up a couple of those police trade-in G23s and they are a great bargain.

[mozeppa]

i tried #5 powder in my .40 and found it to be too slow a burn ...too dirty and kinda under powered to cycle the gun.
so i bumped up the loads until it would cycle good, then got a new problem...because it was so dirty it clogged up the chamber enough the slide wouldn't fully close. this occurred at only 7 shots being fired.

switched to bullseye and it was better, but not great...switched again to 5.5 grains of red dot ....now it runs very good ....oh by the way , i'm pushing a 145 grain cone nose with flat base and its powder coated and no lube grooves.

[fcvan]

Unique. I lost count of how many kegs I've burned over the years. When I first started loading, Dad was buying 15 lb cardboard kegs, it never went bad as He sent me home with half of if 40 years later. When I started loading on my own I would buy 1 lb at a time, now 8.

My first pistol was a S&W 459, load was Lee 356-125 2R which cast 358 diameter. I pan lubed (until I got a sizer) and loaded it over 5 grains. Instant success. When I bought a 357, I used the same boolit, over 5 grains. Instant success. When I bought (ok, the wife bought it for me) a G22 I bought the Lee 401-175 TC, as cast 180 grains. Loaded over 5 grains of Unique. See a pattern here? If it ain't broke . . .

I ASBBPC everything these days and 40 S&W is no exception. Along the way, I have picked up a G23, G42, G43, with conversion barrels for the G22 and G23 for 9mm. I have shot the G27 as my brother has one to go with his G22 and G23, and 9mm conversion barrels. Okay, the wife has a G22, 23, 42, and 43, with conversion barrels, and a bunch of 9mm magazines for all. They shouldn't have had such a sale.

Yes, you can load more than 5 grains in the 40 S&W but I figure why bother? It isn't broken. I have used Red Dot, Bullseye, HP38/W231 and one other that escapes me. But why bother? I buy Unique in 8 lb kegs for a reason. It is the same formula/performance since 1899, I think they are on to something.

[dverna]

In my limited loading of the .40 I had good results with Longshot. It yields higher velocity than other powders at safe pressure.

Like fcvan, I got a 9mm conversion barrel and 9mm mags for my Glock 22 and run 9mm most of the time. For plinking and fun, I use 30% less lead with the 9mm so shooting a lot of .40 has not happened.

I have shelved plans to develop a cast load for it as other projects seem more important. And I may never do it. Getting three hundred XTP’s to reload for SD would be a lifetime supply at my age.

Btw, I used the Hodgdon load data to work up my .40 loads. 7.5 gr with the 180 XTP. A bit under max.

[fcvan]

"Like fcvan, I got a 9mm conversion barrel and 9mm mags for my Glock 22 . . . "

Like Don said, and more. Heck, trigger time is trigger time. My 'SWAT' sidearm became my duty weapon. We used S&W M10s until it was embarrassing. KCI (Korean military mags) are produced at a Glock Factory, just molded without the Glock logo. They were $9.95 a pair, with a cheesy nylon mag pouch, and the barrels were $99 bucks.

A good day at the range was 9mm until they were dry, 40, until they were dry, and go home. About 200 rounds/week. The main thing was, cast/load/shoot using a Lee Turret and a auto disk powder measure set at 5 grains. 9mm/38 S&W/40 S&W was a quick change. That didn't count qualifying for work and off duty.

There is no replacement for trigger time. When I was helping folks transition from revolver to semi (G22) I bought an air-soft pistol that was a G22 knock off. Same weight and trigger pull, just no real recoil. I had marginal sergeants and others who worked for me so I wanted them 'up to speed' so to speak. Nobody failed to certify with the new platform. I am still trying to get my air-soft pistol back from one of the ladies I trained. She's a shooter and uses the heck out of it in her back yard with neighbors.

I carry factory in my EDC, but carried reloads for decades. I figured the loads I qualified with should be the loads I used, I just don't like shooting 'factory.' Sure, I have read the potential horror stories of folks using 'reloads' but have yet to see a case where it was ever brought up. Heck, even the LASO trained and carried reloads for decades until the Ammo manufacturers convinced departments that 'factory reduces liability.'

Back to the OP's question, Unique is a good partner. My loads are below max, even factory, but accurate enough that I could hit a 4" target at 200 yards, off-hand. I was shooting a lot at that time (first test of PCd loads). The boolit flies straight if loaded correctly, proper hold and trigger control will launch it straight. If you become one with the gun, you can shoot a B27 out to 25 yards un-sighted, combat shooting, keeping to the basic principle of 'equal distance of bad guy on either side of the slab sided weapon, press, press, press.' Bad grip, bad target, all of those fundamental things.

[Lloyd Smale]

one of my go to 40 loads is that 175 lee tn bullet with 5.8 grains of unique. Ive shot THOUSANDS OF THEM and never had a single issue.

[Sig]

I've been loading a 170gn Mihec pill with WSF. Meters great, fairly clean & pretty darn accurate.

[prs]

I am another Unique 40S&W fan. I use the Lee TC boolit that drops close to 180 with my alloy. You work-up your own charge, I "think" mine is a bit less than 5gr. I could fill a dumpster with the unique bottles and kegs I have emptied in all sorts of loads; but Unique is not so forgiving of over charges and neither is the 40S&W. I have had no problems with it at all and no leading of either stock or aftermarket barrels in my G-23. Next to black powder, Unique has one of the best odors when shooting.

prs

[gpidaho]

I haven't seen it mentioned above but, I've had very good luck loading the 40S&W( FN Highpower and 40 carbine) with Blue Dot. Gp

[onelight]

I have used red dot , BE-86 , and Unique . All worked well with the edge to BE-86 for factory load performance .

[Dieselhorses]

Good advice everyone. Learning as I go. Seems it’s not cool to shoot reloads in a Glock factory barrel due to alien rifling and over boring the stupid chamber. Aftermarket barrel ordered. Like believing in Santa Claus until you realize he don’t exist.


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[cwlongshot]

I have been using Power Pistol. I have a few molds but recently been Concentrating on the excellent LEE 175 TC. The TL didnt work well for me. But this TC version is great!!

I have a RNFP Lyman mold I used before this and thats just as good but only a 2 cav and this lee is a 6. More is better when ya shoot allot!! ;).

I have a NOE 403-181 In brass for speciality. And it casts a CUP deep HP and WFN. All shoot really well. I like the cup best as the deep really opens up easily!! The FP is goodnif ya need that extra penetration.

I havetwo other Lymans a 175 & 200 TC. That 200 is a favorite. If its nose was just a bit wider I probably would be 100% with it in the 10mm!! I use that and I buy a 220 HP as cast that I PC. Its truly awe inspiring. Bullet weighs 225 and I can move it to 1200+ with Blue Dot from a 6" Bbl. It expands right to its base in wet news print at 20yards.

I like these 400's!!

CW

[Taterhead]

The Lee 175 TC is an excellent design for 40 and 10. The 2 cav was the single most awful mold I've owned. No doubt the 6 cav would be fine. lnstead I have an LBT 4 cav of a similar profile. Also excellent.

As was stated before, a full, or nearly full case of Unique (within load data maximums) is no issue. Not unlike loading Unique in 9mm.

In that burn speed, WSF has been great under this type of bullet. It meters a bit more consistently. And for all out velocity, if that suits your fancy, look no further than Longshot.

I have cast and loaded the Lee 175 TC, the 401638 and the LBT 175 TC. Seems to be a very good bullet style in the 40.

[Dieselhorses]

I guess now what I'm trying to determine is how many actually shoot cast handloads through Glock barrels? Yesterday I shot several handloads and had no issues as far as feeding, firing and hitting paper. It's the infamous "Glock Smile" that worries me. Although I examined the cases I shot and no noticeable deformities. I am aware Glock manufactured their barrels with lee way in chambers, supposedly for reliability, and disclaims that only factory ammo should be used. Heard "Redding" makes a case sizer as well as Lee for the .40 but despite returning the case size back to spec, does the case wall actually become thinner in the bulged area? Not trying to "re-invent the wheel" here, just seeing how many of us in fact shoot reloads through a Glock OEM barrel.

[44MAG#1]

My Gen 4 40 S&W has a supported barrel. What generation are you shooting. Generous chamber dimensions isn't the same as "The Smile".

[FLINTNFIRE]

The smile was early on and not just in glocks , my glocks are gen. 3 and 4 and they leave no bulges nor do any of my other 40 calibers or any other semi auto I own .

Glocks of mine only see lead , no copper jacketed pistol bullets do I buy , I cast , I coat, I load . They shoot fine.

I do not load any with a bulge or those I find in brass I bought with the smile , they are weak in that area and are a accident waiting to happen .

[ioon44]

I guess now what I'm trying to determine is how many actually shoot cast handloads through Glock barrels? Yesterday I shot several handloads and had no issues as far as feeding, firing and hitting paper. It's the infamous "Glock Smile" that worries me. Although I examined the cases I shot and no noticeable deformities. I am aware Glock manufactured their barrels with lee way in chambers, supposedly for reliability, and disclaims that only factory ammo should be used. Heard "Redding" makes a case sizer as well as Lee for the .40 but despite returning the case size back to spec, does the case wall actually become thinner in the bulged area? Not trying to "re-invent the wheel" here, just seeing how many of us in fact shoot reloads through a Glock OEM barrel.

I have been shooting cast hand loads through Glock barrels starting around 1990 both .40 S&W and 9 mm, as with shooting any cast bullet it needs to be at least .002" or more than the barrel and this means the bullet is not swagged by the case or reloading dies.

I have never had a need for a Redding case sizer for .40, if I find a case that is bulged I dump it into the scrap bucket, if a case has been stressed that much I would not trust it.

[Dieselhorses]

Looks like I have to go through a few thousand cases. Grabbed a handful of ones I hadn't decapped/resized and miked it parallel with jaws and sure enough there's as much as .010 variation.

[Dieselhorses]

My Gen 4 40 S&W has a supported barrel. What generation are you shooting. Generous chamber dimensions isn't the same as "The Smile".

Does it still look like the pic? or does the ramp meet an entire 360 degrees of the end of chamber?

262961

[44MAG#1]

Here is my Gen4 40 S&W barrel.

262963

[Taterhead]

I guess now what I'm trying to determine is how many actually shoot cast handloads through Glock barrels? Yesterday I shot several handloads and had no issues as far as feeding, firing and hitting paper. It's the infamous "Glock Smile" that worries me. Although I examined the cases I shot and no noticeable deformities. I am aware Glock manufactured their barrels with lee way in chambers, supposedly for reliability, and disclaims that only factory ammo should be used. Heard "Redding" makes a case sizer as well as Lee for the .40 but despite returning the case size back to spec, does the case wall actually become thinner in the bulged area? Not trying to "re-invent the wheel" here, just seeing how many of us in fact shoot reloads through a Glock OEM barrel.

Virtually 100% of my ammo through my OEM 40 bore Glocks are handloads. Most of those are coated cast bullets. If a loader stays with sane book loads, there are no Glock bulges. I load some of my ammo pretty hot too. Many thousands of loads downrange. The 40 brass is mostly all range pickups.

Smiles indicate loading way beyond sane levels. But that's not exclusive to Glocks. Way back when the first Glock 22s emerged, coupled with early poorly designed brass gave birth to this Glock bulge thing. Really, a thing of the past. I wish it would just die off because it causes unnecessary worry and expense on aftermarket tools.

I own a G-Rx die, but it is totally unnecessary. My RCBS sizers get brass sized so that it drops right into a gauge with boring regularity. It would be inadvisable to use a pass-through sizer to cleanup a case that has been smiled. That case is starting to sheer. It hurts nothing though to use such a tool in normal circumstances. Not me. I resize in station 1, prime in 2 and proceed around the 5 stations to the bin. NO ISSUES.

Advice? Use normal sane loading techniques and you'll have no problems.

My G23.4 OEM barrel.

https://i.postimg.cc/HsD2sHkZ/20200530-172253.jpg

[Dieselhorses]

Virtually 100% of my ammo through my OEM 40 bore Glocks are handloads. Most of those are coated cast bullets. If a loader stays with sane book loads, there are no Glock bulges. I load some of my ammo pretty hot too. Many thousands of loads downrange. The 40 brass is mostly all range pickups.

Smiles indicate loading way beyond sane levels. But that's not exclusive to Glocks. Way back when the first Glock 22s emerged, coupled with early poorly designed brass gave birth to this Glock bulge thing. Really, a thing of the past. I wish it would just die off because it causes unnecessary worry and expense on aftermarket tools.

I own a G-Rx die, but it is totally unnecessary. My RCBS sizers get brass sized so that it drops right into a gauge with boring regularity. It would be inadvisable to use a pass-through sizer to cleanup a case that has been smiled. That case is starting to sheer. It hurts nothing though to use such a tool in normal circumstances. Not me. I resize in station 1, prime in 2 and proceed around the 5 stations to the bin. NO ISSUES.

Advice? Use normal sane loading techniques and you'll have no problems.

My G23.4 OEM barrel.

https://i.postimg.cc/HsD2sHkZ/20200530-172253.jpg

So if the few thousand supposed “once fired” brass I just bought from S&S exhibit a slight “curve” around the middle then this doesn’t really compromise it after normal resizing? I normally load for accuracy vs velocity and not interested in “hot loads”. Don’t mean to sound like a broken record and I am grateful for all the useful info from everyone.


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[Hanzy4200]

I will NEVER load .40 S&W. Ever. I don't fully understand why, but I despise it.

[44MAG#1]

I will NEVER load .40 S&W. Ever. I don't fully understand why, but I despise it.

Definitely to each his own. I do. Really no different loading than 45 Auto except smaller in diameter and shorter. I am on the careful side of loading.

[onelight]

If the brass sized in your sizer still has an obvious bulge or won't drop in a barrel pitch the bad ones. I have seen more bulged 40 but I have found bulged 9mm 40 and 45 acp through the years.
If the badly bulged brass slips through your process it probably won't chamber anyway.

[Taterhead]

So if the few thousand supposed “once fired” brass I just bought from S&S exhibit a slight “curve” around the middle then this doesn’t really compromise it after normal resizing? I normally load for accuracy vs velocity and not interested in “hot loads”. Don’t mean to sound like a broken record and I am grateful for all the useful info from everyone.


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Can you elaborate by what is meant by, "slight curve?" Even better would be a pic.

[Dieselhorses]

Can you elaborate by what is meant by, "slight curve?" Even better would be a pic.

max in curve is .432
263036

[Taterhead]

max in curve is .432
263036

Deleted per the post below.

[Dieselhorses]

Something looks off with that brass. In my 40 bore Glocks, the max expansion, in the area that you measure, is 0.424. The pic is a but dark, by there seems to be a pronounced ring (bulge) around the circumference.

I wouldn't load that brass if I'm interpreting the photo correctly. Was that shot in a Glock?

Yes a Glock 22. (If you click on image makes it bigger.) Considering the difference from my brass and your .424, that's .008 difference (.004 on each side. Now that brass (for what it's worth) has now been shot twice. This was a case I resized normally and loaded with 5.3 gn's of Unique.

I guess if I can't resize and at least shoot brass I have one more time (using a supported chamber/aftermarket barrel), then I have a lot of unusable .40 brass!

[Taterhead]

Yes a Glock 22. (If you click on image makes it bigger.) Considering the difference from my brass and your .424, that's .008 difference (.004 on each side. Now that brass (for what it's worth) has now been shot twice. This was a case I resized normally and loaded with 5.3 gn's of Unique.

I guess if I can't resize and at least shoot brass I have one more time (using a supported chamber/aftermarket barrel), then I have a lot of unusable .40 brass!

APOLOGIES!! I reviewed my reloading notes. My max expansion is 0.434". I will modify my earlier post. Also, I downloaded the image and enhanced it a bit. That looks different than what I was initially seeing. It was a bit backlit, but I can now see in the enhanced image that it is a shape consistent with Glocks.

As I've done load development in 40 and 10mm in Glocks. 0.432" has correlated to moderate pressure loads. 0.434 correlates to max. It has been a rare occurance, but 0.435 is where smiles form, and that gets scrapped. 0.435 also correlated to loads in excess of book maxes.

Sorry to have confused earlier. If you don't see a smile or anything indicating a sheering of brass, it should be good. I've loaded many tens of thousands of Glock shot brass in 10mm and 40. No issues. Resizes and drops right into the gauge. Some cases have 20 or more loadings.

[Dieselhorses]

APOLOGIES!! I reviewed my reloading notes. My max expansion is 0.434". I will modify my earlier post. Also, I downloaded the image and enhanced it a bit. That looks different than what I was initially seeing. It was a bit backlit, but I can now see in the enhanced image that it is a shape consistent with Glocks.

As I've done load development in 40 and 10mm in Glocks. 0.432" has correlated to moderate pressure loads. 0.434 correlates to max. It has been a rare occurance, but 0.435 is where smiles form, and that gets scrapped. 0.435 also correlated to loads in excess of book maxes.

Sorry to have confused earlier. If you don't see a smile or anything indicating a sheering of brass, it should be good. I've loaded many tens of thousands of Glock shot brass in 10mm and 40. No issues. Resizes and drops right into the gauge. Some cases have 20 or more loadings.

No problem! So anything under .434 shouldn’t compromise thickness? Looks like I have a lot of measuring to do!


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[Taterhead]

No problem! So anything under .434 shouldn’t compromise thickness? Looks like I have a lot of measuring to do!


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Right, above that is when the case starts stretching down into the feed ramp.

Nah, I wouldn't bother measuring. Just toss any with a smile. But if you're loading to sane levels, you won't have any with smiles.

I was merely providing that data point for reference to state that it is likely indicative of pressures below max. And your charge weights are consistent with that.

Recommend not worrying and carrying on!

[mvintx]

Yes a Glock 22. (If you click on image makes it bigger.) Considering the difference from my brass and your .424, that's .008 difference (.004 on each side. Now that brass (for what it's worth) has now been shot twice. This was a case I resized normally and loaded with 5.3 gn's of Unique.

I guess if I can't resize and at least shoot brass I have one more time (using a supported chamber/aftermarket barrel), then I have a lot of unusable .40 brass!

What bullet are you shooting with 5.3 grains? I'm working up a cast 165 grain load and it shot pretty well with 5.2 and 5.4 Unique.

[Lloyd Smale]

I run all once fired brass through a bulge buster before loading it and then like taterhead said load them to sane velocitys (maybe one grain under max book loads) and you wont get a bulge. At least I don't in any 40 I own and that includes 4 glocks. Actually very little of the once fired brass I do get is bulged but I just got in the habbit of doing it to insure none slip by.
Right, above that is when the case starts stretching down into the feed ramp.

Nah, I wouldn't bother measuring. Just toss any with a smile. But if you're loading to sane levels, you won't have any with smiles.

I was merely providing that data point for reference to state that it is likely indicative of pressures below max. And your charge weights are consistent with that.

Recommend not worrying and carrying on!

[Dieselhorses]

I run all once fired brass through a bulge buster before loading it and then like taterhead said load them to sane velocitys (maybe one grain under max book loads) and you wont get a bulge. At least I don't in any 40 I own and that includes 4 glocks. Actually very little of the once fired brass I do get is bulged but I just got in the habbit of doing it to insure none slip by.

I was just concerned about thickness in case wall and fatigue. I just dropped the empty case I photo'd in previous post back in chamber of Glock. It still fell in without being resized. Didn't have to nudge or push it in. You said you were loading 5.8 Unique for the Lee 401-175 TC? That's at the top end isn't it? I started at 4.7 but stopped at 5.5 gn's of Unique. Groups were closing tight between 5.1 and 5.3 but I know every gun is different.

[Dieselhorses]

What bullet are you shooting with 5.3 grains? I'm working up a cast 165 grain load and it shot pretty well with 5.2 and 5.4 Unique.

It's a 175 gn SWC and they weren't "Berry's"! They were from Bayou Bullets! My bad.

[Lloyd Smale]

heres aliants top load for a 180 with unique http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=180&shellid=29&bulletid=42 Im about a full grain lower and that's with a cast bullet so its actually less pressure then there top end load with a jacketed bullet.
I was just concerned about thickness in case wall and fatigue. I just dropped the empty case I photo'd in previous post back in chamber of Glock. It still fell in without being resized. Didn't have to nudge or push it in. You said you were loading 5.8 Unique for the Lee 401-175 TC? That's at the top end isn't it? I started at 4.7 but stopped at 5.5 gn's of Unique. Groups were closing tight between 5.1 and 5.3 but I know every gun is different.

[Dieselhorses]

heres aliants top load for a 180 with unique http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=180&shellid=29&bulletid=42 Im about a full grain lower and that's with a cast bullet so its actually less pressure then there top end load with a jacketed bullet.

Sure enough! Another question was BHN but there is a lot of references on here about that, looks like straight COWW. Tested one of my ingots and it's around 20. I powder coat everything so don't know if this is too hard.

[cwlongshot]

Its not TOO hard but its a waste of hard alloy.

Shoot for HALF THAT!! 10 is FINE in tens of thousands of 40's and -0's I have sent into plates.


CW

[44Blam]

Sure enough! Another question was BHN but there is a lot of references on here about that, looks like straight COWW. Tested one of my ingots and it's around 20. I powder coat everything so don't know if this is too hard.

Wow, I might take that alloy and mix it with soft lead to get something in the 12-15 bhn range and stretch it out a little...

[Dieselhorses]

Wow, I might take that alloy and mix it with soft lead to get something in the 12-15 bhn range and stretch it out a little...

I ended up doing that.

[sargenv]

My usual alloy for 40 S&W is 95-3-2 (ish). I've loaded 40 S&W with bullets as light as 140 and as heavy as 220's. I've loaded it in a several pistols and a couple of revolvers.

I've loaded the 140 gr Bullets to 1350 fps for a dandy major pistol load and 220's to about 590 fps for a mouse fart single stack load. I've used Titegroup, Sport Pistol, Bullseye, 231, Solo 1000 (I still have some), Ramshot Competition, SW-Ultimate Pistol, SW-Auto Pistol, Red Dot, Green Dot, Power Pistol, Herco, Blue Dot, Longshot (Blasty as heck), Accurate #7, Vitt N320, Clays, Universal, Clay Dot, and likely a few more that I can't recall at the moment.

My current favorite full power load is with Shooter's World Ultimate Pistol. 5.8 gr with a Rem 5 1/2 SPP and 180 gr Jacketed Flat Points.

I've loaded 140, 155, 180, and 200 gr Bear creek Moly coated bullets. I've also loaded 155 gr JHP, 165 and 180 JFP, 180, 200, and 220 Plated X-Tremes, and also 160, 175, 180, 185, and 200 Gr Cast. The 185 was a mold I had LBT make for me that is a long round nose. I was looking for a faster reloading RN bullet than what was available at the time. I think the 160 RN & 200 TC were from a group buy on here. I also got in on the "pointy boolit" group buy and have I think 121 and 170 ish pointy molds. The 175 is the Lee TC that was available as a 6 cavity.

I've been very busy over the years loading 40.. I think it's sort of my favorite non magnum pistol round since I have so many different platforms for firing it.

My favorite revolver load for ICORE was 4.0 gr of Ramshot Competition with a 140 Bear creek RN, Nickel plated brass, and Federal #100 SPP. I'd use Fed #200 SP Mag if the 100's were hard to find and they always lit off as good as the 100's with not much more pop.

[Lloyd Smale]

Want my take on it? Harder is allways better in a good gun. Soft shooting better came from the 50s and 60s when gunmakers didn't worry to much about accuracy and chamber and barrel dimensions were all over the place and a bullet need to be made like bubble gun to bump up to give 3 inch groups instead of 10 inch. Take a good revolver or a semi auto which most times have shallow rifling and harder will always shoot better then soft. If that wasn't true why would we use jacketed accuracy as our measuring stick. Copper is harder then any lead alloy. Now this all depends on what you want. If I was just rolling beer cans at 15 yards I wouldn't waste my 20 bhn alloy on that. WW is plenty good for that. but if I was competing in a ppc or bullseye match where a 1/4 inch difference in 25 yard groups might mean the difference between coming in first or coming in last Id use a hard of an alloy as I could afford. Back when lineotype was easy to find and cheap that's what I used for my comp bullets. As it got harder and harder to find I used 5050 ww/lino which comes in at 17-18. Or when the linotype stash gets to small I just water drop ww. Pc will allow you to shoot pure at magnum velocitys without leading but it wont stop your bullet from deforming and your groups to look like they were shot with a shotgun using buckshot. Me? If I had some 20bhn alloy and was casting 40s and wanted great accuracy and wanted to save money (which is why we all cast) id probably cut that 20 bhn 5050 with ww or even 25 percent of your 20 bhn alloy with 75 percent ww. Really anymore id probably squirrel the 20bhn away for rifle shooting and use straight ww for my pistol bullets but wouldn't go any softer then that.
Sure enough! Another question was BHN but there is a lot of references on here about that, looks like straight COWW. Tested one of my ingots and it's around 20. I powder coat everything so don't know if this is too hard.

[leeggen]

Several years back Geargnasher wrote a very good article as to loading for the 40 cal. If you will go to that article ( do a search of his post) you will learn exactly what you are looking for. Gear I have that acticle printed out and I still relate to it at times with each gun I load for. Seems to fit most but he wrote it strictly about the 40
CD

[Dieselhorses]

Want my take on it? Harder is allways better in a good gun. Soft shooting better came from the 50s and 60s when gunmakers didn't worry to much about accuracy and chamber and barrel dimensions were all over the place and a bullet need to be made like bubble gun to bump up to give 3 inch groups instead of 10 inch. Take a good revolver or a semi auto which most times have shallow rifling and harder will always shoot better then soft. If that wasn't true why would we use jacketed accuracy as our measuring stick. Copper is harder then any lead alloy. Now this all depends on what you want. If I was just rolling beer cans at 15 yards I wouldn't waste my 20 bhn alloy on that. WW is plenty good for that. but if I was competing in a ppc or bullseye match where a 1/4 inch difference in 25 yard groups might mean the difference between coming in first or coming in last Id use a hard of an alloy as I could afford. Back when lineotype was easy to find and cheap that's what I used for my comp bullets. As it got harder and harder to find I used 5050 ww/lino which comes in at 17-18. Or when the linotype stash gets to small I just water drop ww. Pc will allow you to shoot pure at magnum velocitys without leading but it wont stop your bullet from deforming and your groups to look like they were shot with a shotgun using buckshot. Me? If I had some 20bhn alloy and was casting 40s and wanted great accuracy and wanted to save money (which is why we all cast) id probably cut that 20 bhn 5050 with ww or even 25 percent of your 20 bhn alloy with 75 percent ww. Really anymore id probably squirrel the 20bhn away for rifle shooting and use straight ww for my pistol bullets but wouldn't go any softer then that.

Alright well I mixed 2/3 of pot of 20 BHN with 1/3 pot of 10 BHN. Cast some bullets almost 2 weeks ago (water quenched which I probably shouldn't have) and tested hardness today-12 BHN. I guess my mind is fried or something because I can't generate a formula at the moment. Issue now is I'm out of pure lead and I need to start sorting some more wheel weights. Thanks much for the info!

[Dieselhorses]

Several years back Geargnasher wrote a very good article as to loading for the 40 cal. If you will go to that article ( do a search of his post) you will learn exactly what you are looking for. Gear I have that acticle printed out and I still relate to it at times with each gun I load for. Seems to fit most but he wrote it strictly about the 40
CD

Will search for that.

[bayjoe]

I use 5.2 gr of Unique in the winter and 4.7 gr. of 700X in the summer. 700X smokes terrible and it is great at keeping mosquitos away

[Lloyd Smale]

I don't understand how you could mix 2/3s 20 bhn and 1/3 10 and water drop them and come out with 12bhn. You should be around 17 bhn just air cooling. Id guess mid 20s water dropped.
Alright well I mixed 2/3 of pot of 20 BHN with 1/3 pot of 10 BHN. Cast some bullets almost 2 weeks ago (water quenched which I probably shouldn't have) and tested hardness today-12 BHN. I guess my mind is fried or something because I can't generate a formula at the moment. Issue now is I'm out of pure lead and I need to start sorting some more wheel weights. Thanks much for the info!

[Dieselhorses]

I don't understand how you could mix 2/3s 20 bhn and 1/3 10 and water drop them and come out with 12bhn. You should be around 17 bhn just air cooling. Id guess mid 20s water dropped.

Don't know. I checked the ingots I used for hardness, checked hardness of bullets. I used the old style way of checking hardness so I could be mistaken. (5/32 ball rod at 60 lbs. for 30 seconds, then measure indentation and compare to chart). I ordered an official tester though. Just gonna go with 12 BHN.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have a cabin tree tester. In my opinion the best one. Ive had lbt's and saecos and the cabin tree is the most repeatable. That said I don't put much store in the number I get from testing. I use it more to compare different alloys or test unknown lead they anything.

[georgerkahn]

I have a cabin tree tester. In my opinion the best one. Ive had lbt's and saecos and the cabin tree is the most repeatable. That said I don't put much store in the number I get from testing. I use it more to compare different alloys or test unknown lead they anything.

I concur 100% with this. When I first "became aware" of the hardness question in my boolits, I had to have a tester; then a second; then, a third... In the past decade or so, I pretty much solely use the Cabine one -- and that primarily as a "comparison tool" to ascertain similarity/difference with boolits which work.
geo

[Lloyd Smale]

yup George. I kind of chuckle at those who claim there alloy is 15bhn when in fact with the testers we have access to it could be 13 and it could be 18. If you doubt it I had all three. A Seaco, lbt and cabin tree. Test the same alloy with all three and you got three totally different readings. Even testing the same batch with the lbt or Seaco would get you a different reading about every time you tested. Especially the lbt.