Is it me or do you guys get it?

[LenH]

The club I am a member is an outdoor range. I went out there Saturday morning with the idea of testing some ladder loads with
a NOE 310-167-FN-AK3 using a starting load of 23.0 gr of RL-7. I had 10 rounds ea. of loads in .5 gr increments up 25.0 gr.
I get out there and it is covered up and after finding an empty bench and getting set up the talkers come calling. Most of the guys I talked with
were reloaders shooting jacketed bullets of various makers. Then these guys find out I am shooting cast and that I cast my own, they look at you like
you are a freak of nature. Then the comments start with: Why would you even do that? or I wouldn't even consider even trying that.
Isn't that dangerous? And it goes on from there. It just got me to thinking, Am I the only one that gets these stares and comments?
I just find it interesting that most people are scared of casting your own.

[Triggerfinger]

I always find people interested in how to do it as opposed to any opposition to it. Casting bullets is archaic to most, but is the wave of the future for the knowing.

[Hossfly]

Most that are interested cant believe you can make boolits out of wheel weights.

[PositiveCaster]

?....Casting bullets is archaic to most, but is the wave of the future for the knowing.

I assume that “the knowing” are exclusively those who do not or will not be shooting in states which prohibit lead bullets...


.

[rancher1913]

you should see the looks I get when I tell them and show them my swagged boolits, most dont even believe me even with the proof right in front of them.

[frkelly74]

I have had the " I would not put that in My rifle" look or comment. Sometimes it is followed by "can you make me some" when I say it costs $.06 a shot to which I add the comment " not including labor" . Sometimes they just walk away shaking their head. Once I shot the neighboring shooters pop can on the bank because he couldn't hit it and I wanted to put it out of its misery, He was scaring it pretty bad. I have my fun and don't usually bother others but can be coaxed into conversing once in a while if it doesn't seem pointless.

[Petrol & Powder]

Ignorance is one thing. Willful ignorance is something totally different.

Most of the skepticism I receive concerning cast bullets comes from people that only know what others have told them. If thier "teachers" had no real knowledge then their "students" will have little knowledge. This is where the willfully ignorant part comes in. iI you are unwilling to take some responsibility for your own education, you will be stuck with whatever knowledge your teacher imparted to you. If your teacher was misinformed - you will be misinformed. If your take some responsibility for your own knowledge, you have a much better chance of expanding your knowledge.

[WILCO]

I'm a social butterfly.
I talk to everybody.

[Scrounge]

I'm pretty sure I grew up shooting cast boolits, for certain after age 6. Dad was trying (and often failing miserably) to support two families, and still shoot. Casting and reloading were part and parcel of making it work even as poorly as it did. It's also one of the things we did for fun at Dad's house. And that was a blast! In more ways than one. ;)

So I can't tell you if "I get it" the way you're asking. I just don't see any real way to do otherwise. BUY boolits, or those silly copper-coated things? Only to get more reloadable brass!

[Ed_Shot]

I enjoy talking to folks at the range. Very few reload and I've only met a couple of casters but everybody seems interested in the topic.

[Kraschenbirn]

Our club has a membership of 250 - in accordance with by our by-laws - and, as one of the 'old guys' (member since 1982) I'm at least acquainted with everyone I who would consider a 'serious' shooter. Off the top of my head, I can currently think of less than 20 who reload and just a half-dozen who cast...and I've got to count two or three 'front-stuffers' to get that many.

Last time someone told me that you can't shoot cast in a center-rifle, I just smiled, pointed downrange, and continued breaking the clay pigeons that I'd tossed up on the 200-yard berm.

Bill

[wv109323]

If you want people to look at you as though you had two heads:
Take a target out to 50 yards
Shoot at it with a pistol with cast bullets
And use one hand

[tazman]

Most of the shooters on the range I infest do not reload. Of those that do reload very few shoot cast. Of those that shoot cast, the majority buy their boolits.
I haven't started casting for rifle yet on a serious level.
Most of the people who find out about my casting are handgun shooters. They seem to be impressed that a normal(??) person can cast a boolit well enough to match the accuracy of purchased boolits.

[fcvan]

I went out with a buddy from N CA who was working up lead free loads for deer season. As luck would have it, another friend shows up to sight in his factory lead free 308 W rounds. Me, I wasn't planning to hunt so I didn't bother with a license. I did however bring a 308 bolt gun with PCd cast loads.

I had made a mix of PC powder that came out just like FMJ. My second buddy couldn't tell even after I told him it was home grown. I told him 'you should start using that fancy reloading gear your wife bought you 5 years ago.' We all used to work together. Anyway, I shot my 10 cent a round boolits while he shot his OMG expensive factory rounds. Other buddy went on about how his Hornady lead free reloads were only about 30 cents. I hope he has finally unboxed his reloading gear. I doubt he will become a caster but I would surely teach him how.

[mozeppa]

If you want people to look at you as though you had two heads:
Take a target out to 50 yards
Shoot at it with a pistol with cast bullets
And use one hand

he heh!.....ain't it the truth

[Winger Ed.]

I was at the range today and the rangemaster/owner was there, and we always visit a little.

He watched me awhile, and commented that my heavy barrel Rem700, was quiet, and asked if it was a .223.
I told him it was my old .30-06, I was testing out 'the load' with cast Lead 190s, and showed him one.
I get to shoot a lot, at about the expense of buying premium .22LR or CCI Stingers.

He looked at it, nodded, and said, "Cool".

[Texas by God]

I was at the range today and the rangemaster/owner was there, and we always visit a little.

He watched me awhile, and commented that my heavy barrel Rem700, was quiet, and asked if it was a .223.
I told him it was my old .30-06, I was testing out 'the load' with cast Lead 190s, and showed him one.
I get to shoot a lot, at about the expense of buying premium .22LR or CCI Stingers.

He looked at it, nodded, and said, "Cool".Texan response[emoji41]


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[blikseme300]

The nay-sayers will tell me there is no way cast is accurate or useful, then I show them the photos of my successful hunts. Shuts them up good.

[WebMonkey]

it's like when the guy has his hand assembled ar-platform with a collection of uppers to run through.

guys come over and start mouthing at him that he's a dumb mall ninja and if he was a real hunter/shooter/person, he'd shoot this here stick with a rock tied to it while wearing a dead racoon on his head.

;)

[Biggin]

I don't go to public ranges much but in the occasional moment that I have it's usually with someone else. I'm the annoying guy who walks around picking up brass that most people throw away. Most people look suspicious or surprised not knowing that it's reloadable. Occasionally I'll run into somebody else who reloads but not many as I used too. Throwing away good brass goes against my hillbilly upbringing.

[megasupermagnum]

I've had the complete opposite response. I have yet to have anyone really care at all. Even shooting the M1A, which everyone knows lead will destroy them [smilie=s:, gets a "well it looks like they work pretty good".

It is my muzzleloaders that get some kind of response for some reason.

[RU shooter]

I always got odd looks and some snickers when I would show up at this one clubs monthly cmp style match it was shot at one hundred yds and any kind of military open sight rifle was legal . Most all had black rifles a few garands some Mausers and one older gent that always shot a m1 carbine . I shot my 03a3 with cast. One Sunday I took the wrong ammo box and instead had my off hand practice loads .lee 155 bullet and 6 grs of Bullseye sound like a pop gun going off ! I held my own that day and came in the upper third of the shooters . Had a few guys ask me about my loads and why they were so quiet . I explained to them the joys of cast bullets and how you can load them real mild andwith just about zero recoil and still be accurate that was the main reason I started casting for rifles , my shoulder hated me shooting prone with a steel butt plate with ball ammo . The guys that shot the mausers agreed fully with my logic

[15meter]

Over the years I've had multiple people ask me to teach them how to reload, had a fair number in my shop and went through the how's and why's. Most are still loading.

One went to African and has a Cape Buffalo on ammo I taught him how to load.

Taught my daughter's best friend and her husband how to reload over the Christmas holidays. They were back in Michigan and were tired of paying the long dollar for factory ammo. They're back in Texas and I get occasional photo's sent of their reloading efforts. He has recruited his best friend back in Texas to reload together so they can shoot more.

They went back with a Uniflow, powder trickler, 308 dies, polisher, 200+ rounds of loaded ammo, trimmer, chamfer tool, other misc. reloading equipment and stuffings for a couple of hundred more for $150. Found a Rockchucker down there on Craigslist. He's going to use a couple thousand dollar digital scale that came from where he worked--they were upgrading the equipment in the research lab and he snagged one before it got tossed out. Lucky kid.

I get calls and in person questions from guys at both gun clubs and both boat clubs I belong to about reloading.

Without this house arrest we're going through, I'd be helping a new member at one of the gun clubs sort out a pair of Ackley rifles(REAL Ackley rifles, complete with personal correspondence from Ackley to the guys Dad!). His brother inherited the rifles from their father, my friend got them when his brother passed away a year ago. His brother only shot it a couple of times. He never learned how to reload and was convinced that the only ammo that would work was what came with the rifle. When that was gone it was gone.

And he even inherited the loading dies with it.

The surviving brother has reloaded for conventional but these two rifles were way over the top for him, plus for years his brother had told him that there was no brass available and would never be any available.

I cured that mis-conception and he is shooting both rifles now. With cast boolits just for fun[smilie=w:

Wish this house arrest was over, these two rifles appeared not long before the bad beer virus whacked us, I'd like to get out on the range and shoot a couple of rifles with some history behind them:Fire:

[vernm]

I was at the range shooting my 1903 Springfield when to gents set up on the bench next to me. They kind of snickered when they saw I was shooting a 100 year old military, bolt action rifle with military sights. And was shooting plain old lead cast bullets. They hauled out a brand new AR15 and started trying to get on paper at 25yds. Problem was they couldn't find the elevation adjustment. I had a front sight tool in my bag so I went over and got it sighted in. They were happy and ready for some serious shooting. They put out a 9" steel hanging plate at 100 yds. After they went though a couple of boxes of ammo with no hits, they took a break. I asked if I could shoot at their target. Sure go ahead if you think you can hit it. I rang the steel 12 times in a row. They never said another word. Just packed up their gear and left. I'm sure they had no idea how much time and effort went into developing that ammo.

[Stephen Cohen]

I can understand the ignorance of those who have never joined this site, I thought I knew it all till I came here, and realised I knew nothing, even what I knew was wrong in most cases. I could rave on about what I have learned here but I would only be stating the obvious to those who know so much more. To all of you, thank you for opening my eyes. Regards Stephen

[Murphy]

It's hard enough being a blued steel and walnut gun man.

Afraid of casting? No. Afraid of running out of ammunition? Who isn't?

Murphy

[blue32]

Not too long ago I had an RO ask about the revolver I was shooting as he had apparently never seen a snub nose. He couldn't figure out how I was hitting anything "without a rear sight." He was a good 15 years my senior. This is a range where even 9mm cases seldom stick around and I'm by far not the only one scrounging lead. The most common questions I receive from other shooters are "what load?" and "have you used x powder?" Unfortunately, I've yet to meet anyone who knows what a 32-20 is.

[GhostHawk]

No most don't get it. I gave up trying to convert people a long time ago.

You want to shoot jacketed, ok, its your money.
You don't want to take the time to learn to reload safely, ok, again its your money.

You think every cast boolit will lead the rifle because you started with bullets that were too small, or without a good enough lube.
Ok, everyone has the right to an opinion. I don't like the smell of yours but that is life.

You want to spend 1$ ea to punch holes in paper and complain about the rifle, the ammo, or anything but the shooter.
Ok.

Just so you know that target with 5 shots in one ragged hole was shot with cast and just a few grains of Red Dot. No my barrels not leaded up, want to look?
Ohh and they cost me 5 -8 cents a round to shoot.

But hey, its your time and money, you won't get an argument from me.

[The Dar]

The club I am a member is an outdoor range. I went out there Saturday morning with the idea of testing some ladder loads with
a NOE 310-167-FN-AK3 using a starting load of 23.0 gr of RL-7. I had 10 rounds ea. of loads in .5 gr increments up 25.0 gr.


I had the exact loads as you on Sunday morning. The bullet I was using was the Lee C309-170-F. It was the first time shooting cast in my Savage Model 11. I started out at 50yards (like I did with a bolt action Ruger American 223). What surprised me is there wasn't a lot of difference in the group sizes. I set up 5 targets at 100 yards. The groups got larger but still all about the same size. I was wondering if you had the same results?

I loaded up 15 more of each load tonight. I'll be trying them this weekend at 200 and 300 yards to see if any groups stand out.

I was very pleased with the results of their performance but I was expecting a different sized groups.

[upnorthwis]

And then I tell them that I shoot these cast bullets at 1000 yards with black powder.

[dverna]

After I bought my place, my only need for a public range was to shoot trap or sporting clays.

I do not like public ranges for pistol or rifle shooting. Too many fools.

Feel sorry for those of you that have no choice....be safe....

[fredj338]

Ignorance is in every facet of life.

[Dieselhorses]

Went to a coworkers camp to sight a rifle (.308) in. Loaded some 170 gn FN with RL7 and the boolits were purple. He was an avid duck hunter and always had his Lab "Coal" with him. I discovered that upon firing every time his dog had to fetch the beer can out at 100 yards. This was a painstaking process but somehow I zeroed it. That night, half his family came to eat at the camp (only 125 people) and a few of his nephews asked me what ammo I was using to hunt deer. I showed them, and yea they thought it was lipstick. Next morning lipstick worked! Only one other "relative" put one down with a J. It just amazes me that most of his family own rifles and scopes packages they spent 3 or 4K on, and I'm out there with a Savage 110 and .10 boolits.

[kevin c]

Shooting action pistol, my experience is a bit different. Burning through twenty to thirty thousand rounds a year, everyone reloads. Years ago, loading jacketed was common, though a few used lubed commercial cast, looking to load more for the same buck. That has gone to commercially cast coated in recent years.

The upshot is that nobody on the action range blinks an eye if you say you reload. But casters? I'm one of two out of a hundred or so, though there are others that used to do it. Those others gave it up because for them it was too much work and time to cast, not to mention size, lube or coat and then load 30,000 projectiles a year when they had to work and be part of a family (I'm retired with my son out on his own, and got into the casting just as I pulled off the tie and dress shoes).

But there are a few that have expressed an interest, so all hope is not yet lost.

[Hickory]

I do not like public ranges for pistol or rifle shooting. Too many fools.

Feel sorry for those of you that have no choice....be safe....

I have been to a few public ranges in couple of years and some of the people there are just plain dangerous with a gun. Some have no more sense than a 6 year old.

[charlie b]

I had the exact loads as you on Sunday morning. The bullet I was using was the Lee C309-170-F. It was the first time shooting cast in my Savage Model 11. I started out at 50yards (like I did with a bolt action Ruger American 223). What surprised me is there wasn't a lot of difference in the group sizes. I set up 5 targets at 100 yards. The groups got larger but still all about the same size. I was wondering if you had the same results?

I loaded up 15 more of each load tonight. I'll be trying them this weekend at 200 and 300 yards to see if any groups stand out.

I was very pleased with the results of their performance but I was expecting a different sized groups.

As long as you are not leading the barrel or pushing the velocity too hard, a well made cast bullet will shoot as well as a jacketed. The only problem I have with cast accuracy at range is wind. The slower bullets drift more and we usually have wind that swirls around a lot, making it hard to read.

We are lucky to have a really, really nice public range. 90% of the time the people are well mannered and safe. Helps also that most stay in the 'pistol' area instead of the longer rifle ranges (we have a 1000yd, 300yd and silhouette range with quite a few shooting positions).

I am probably the only cast rifle shooter. Several have commented on the 'weird' bullets (I powder coat using blue and red) and ask where I got them. Some kind of scoff at me when I say they are cast, until I shoot. There is a full ram target at 300yd and one guy challenged me to hit it. He was even a bit miffed when I asked him where he wanted me to shoot it. So I gave it a head shot and he walked away (he was having trouble hitting it at all).

It's a bit different at the 1000yd range. Most of the guys shooting there know what they are doing. They are still a bit surprised to see cast bullets but are not as surprised at the accuracy.

[LenH]

Charlie B, I only have access to a 100 yard range right now but want to take it out a bit further. I am on the fence with powder coating. I have tried it
but am old school with a gas check and a good lube. I usually take a while to shoot 50 rounds. I set the timer for a minute and a half and it usually
takes about half of that to enter each shot in a log book.The barrel don't over heat and I usually clean between 10 shot groups but this time I forgot
my cleaning box (oldtimers gets me at times) but leading was not a problem and accuracy didn't suffer.

[Chihuahua Floyd]

Shoot cowboy action for a while, just about everybody reloads and a significant percent cast.
I try to shoot while nobody else is at the range. People I shoot with are not surprised when my 102 year old Enfield with cast out shoots my AR.
CF

[Three44s]

If the rest of the crowd does not cast, it just leaves more lead for those of us that do!

Three44s

[Biggin]

If the rest of the crowd does not cast, it just leaves more lead for those of us that do!

Three44s

That's what I'm talking about!

[LeadRecycler]

(Now-Former) boss of mine was asking where he could get some round balls for his cap & ball revolver, since nobody local seems to have any in stock. Next day I showed up with some at work. He asked where I got them, and then the casting talk started. He had no idea how easy it is. Now with all this virus BS and panic buying, he can't find 9 mm, but had some cast his woman accidentally bought (thought they were loaded rounds). He's getting a reloading education now too. I'm trying to piece together my spare press for him.

Then he tells me, the place he works now has buckets of old wheel weights stacked in the corner, because they can't get rid of them...

[dragon813gt]

Reloaders are a very small subset of gun owners. Casters are a minuscule subset of that subset. And ignorance abounds in the gun “community” which is quite sad.

In my area most reloaders only want to talk if it’s about the stuff they’re interested in. Had one individual, who’s a NRA instructor, tell me I couldn’t load safe ammo w/ Lee equipment. He only drinks the Blue KoolAid. He also told me cast bullets destroy guns and should never be used. This is the ignorance I was talking about.

I’ve given up trying to talk to people about reloading. I don’t bother talking about casting at all. I’ve given up talking to almost any gun owner. They don’t see the big picture. And very few have interests outside of what they’re shooting. I like every type of firearm and like being educated on something I’m unfamiliar with. If it’s not a Glock, AR or some bolt action chambered for the current fad cartridge people aren’t shooting it around here. So there’s nothing I can learn from them and they aren’t interested in what I’m shooting.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Oh, the looks/questions/comments I get when I shoot my Sharps replica .45-70 at the 200 yd gong. Comments usually cease after it rings loudly. Yes, they can't believe I cast my own bullets. And hit something. And the deer I kill with cast bullets. In the Cowboy Action Shooting group more cast, but still only one or two out of ten. All do reload.

[robg]

our club has lots of non reloaders. great for the rest of us as they give their brass away.very few caster here and yes they think im a bit odd shooting cast.but then ive alway been out of step with most people.

[dakotashooter2]

If you are shooting cast in rifle caliber get some soft steel plates 3/8” to 1/2” and put out and proceed to put holes in them. Most guys dont think lead can penetrate steel.

[gwpercle]

After I bought my place, my only need for a public range was to shoot trap or sporting clays.

I do not like public ranges for pistol or rifle shooting. Too many fools.

Feel sorry for those of you that have no choice....be safe....

Look around on the interstate and streets...too many fools ...but where else are you going to drive .

I was talking to my Doctor about all the different things in the world that could kill a person... insects , snakes , spiders , bacteria , virus , plagues , malaria , enfluenza , covid 19 , ...all the illnesses one can contract and he tells me I stand my best chance of dying on the highway at the hands of a distracted or drunk driver ... and you know what ... I think he's right !
Gary

[15meter]

our club has lots of non reloaders. great for the rest of us as they give their brass away.very few caster here and yes they think im a bit odd shooting cast.but then ive alway been out of step with most people.

At both of the clubs I'm a member at, any brass that is not snagged by a reloader goes to the scrap metal business for cash. At the one club that I do the recycling, I've put several THOUSAND dollars back into the club to pay for upkeep/improvements.

I've got 60-70 lbs of brass that is going to the recycler tomorrow. They just opened back up after being put on house arrest for the last 2 months.

If they don't want to reload it's fine with me, I like the fact they are helping to support the club indirectly.

[djohns28]

I was shooting the 200 yard gong at the local range which sits catty-cornered and you can't see it from where you shoot the 100 yard berm. So, I set up and the guys on the 100 yard are like looking at me like "what is this guy doing". I'm out with my 223 (bolt gun) and my coyote loads. I start popping the gong. about 8 rounds in, one of them comes over and starts asking all kinds of questions. "What are you shooting? How far is that? Can you hit it with a 22? want to see my rifle?" I don't know this guy and I'm not going to shoot distracted so I unload the rifle and drop the ammo back into my box, leave the bolt open and get up from the bench. Turns out he reloads several of the same cartridges I do and proceeded to tell me that the load I have worked up for my 243 (1/3 moa with hunting bullets btw) is wrong and I need to change powders... It seemed like an hour before he finally figured out I was done with the conversation. He decides to spice the conversation up by bringing his rifle over and trying to hit the 200 yard gong iron sighted and off hand despite me waiting for him to leave so I can shoot. When he got back to shoot, I was packing my gear. He shot and missed and then left. I got my gear back out and by then the sun had shifted and I couldn't see the gongs very well so I had to go paint them. Got back from painting and shot about 10 times before the shotgun crew rolled in. The way the range is situated, we don't shoot 200 if the gunners are out. Courtesy thing. I broke out the 28 and shot with the "old guys". If you can't beat them, join them I guess.

[jimb16]

I must be an exception. At my club, a good 70% reload rifle, pistol and shotgun. About 1/3 of those reload cast. Most of the exceptions are the .22 RF shooters. Often times, conversation at the skeet house, between relays, is about casting and loading cast bullets! The less experienced guys just sit there taking notes and asking question!

[curioushooter]

I'm my experience there is a heaping helping of status display peacockery with cast bullet condescension and some millitary ignorance. Some guys show off the fact they can blow away 50 or more cents per shot, basically. And since the millitary went to all jacketed like 120 years ago the assumption is because it is better. My own father, a tank commander and helicopter pilot at different times, was deeply suspicious of anything "reloaded" let alone made with hand cast bullets.

[Scrounge]

...He also told me cast bullets destroy guns and should never be used...

What does he think they used before the invention of ******** *******? The Romans used cast lead boolits in their slings, for crying out loud! In a mold that had the Latin work for "Strike!" engraved in it, in at least one instance. Santayana was right.

[Walks]

I'm confined these days to a local indoor range. Never seen another Caster there. only 1 or 2 Reloaders.
Most are younger people that put a target at 7yds and spray and pray, 3-4 S-A's, 2-3 magazines then switch guns, almost all are 9mmLuger.
I send My target out to 50ft and shoot one-handed. Can't see or shoot well anymore, but keep all shots in the black of a 50ft rapid fire target. Range lighting has STUNK since it opened 35yrs ago.
People look at Me strange because I pick up my brass too.
Now some have started to ask about blue, red, green bullets. I try to explain about PC, I get looked at like I was speaking Swahilli. Some seem to think I do a good job "masking off" the brass cases so as not to get paint on the brass when I paint the bullets.
Like trying to explain ice to a Bushman.

[crackers]

“That paint is going to ruin your rifling.”

[rockrat]

I have had a few scoff at my boolits, till I show them the target I just shot. Smaller group than they shot. They get quiet quickly and go back to their bench.

[Hogtamer]

You wouldn't believe the reactions when I torch off a 1 1/8 oz slug at 1500 fps from a 12 ga.

[tdoor4570]

I get some strange looks when I lay out rifles that are 100 yrs. old then powder coated cast . had some ask if they still work. 600 yards gong shuts them up though.

[onelight]

I get some strange looks when I lay out rifles that are 100 yrs. old then powder coated cast . had some ask if they still work. 600 yards gong shuts them up though.
That has got to be fun.:drinks:

[clintsfolly]

Was checking my scope setting just before deer season. Had my Savage 110 lh that I rebarreled to 450 marlin. Being from Mi I played the 1.8 game and trimmed some cases to 1.8 and loaded them with a 500 gr rn cast but at full OAL. The guy next bench was shooting a AR10 308 6-18 x50 scope. We where shooting 200Yds and he has been bragging how well his rifle shot. He was going to school the 12”gong. Shoots twice and missed. Ask if I will spot his hits. Shoots 18 more 3 hit. Offers to spot my shots and I agree told him watch the 8“ gong. First round ever at 200 hold center plate. Just off the plate 6 o’clock. Hold top of plate top of plate hit the next 5 the last shot the plate swings up and lands on the cross member or the hanger and lays there. He loaded his stuff and never said a word.

[Thumbcocker]

It is a scientific fact that the more your gun costs and the more stuff you have on it the better you shoot and the better person you are.

[DocSavage]

A few comments on powder coat cast mostly the kryptonite green ones.
Had one gent ask about the "factory" ammo I had told him it was a reloads,didn't believe me till a buddy said yep all reloaded ammo. He was quite amazed.

[curioushooter]

One aspersion that is complete rubbish as far as I am concerned regarding cast boolits is they "foul up the barrel." To this I reply that so do jacketed bullets, and copper fouling is 10x harder to remove.

The vast, vast majority of rifles I've bought used that were shot were caked up with copper fouling to the point their accuracy was diminished. This is a common phenomenon with new barrels as they aren't smoothed up yet, and it is one of the reasons I like to buy used.

Copper fouling has to be removed chemically by toxic, foul smelling, corrosive solvents that are unpleasant to use and expensive. They are also all corrosive to the point that if they get into places you don't want them they will do damage. Lead fouling if not too bad is so easily removed as to be trivial. Sometimes I get a little and just push a bronze brush and some hoppes 9 down the barrel and it's gone...along with the carbon. If it's really bad a copper chore boy and bronze brush is used. Still it takes a fraction of the time and hoppes 9 is nothing like Barnes CR10 or Sweet's 7.62 which are needed to really remove copper.

For handguns and straight wall rifles it is my contention that cast bullets perform as well or better than anything jacketed. It may take a little fiddling, and it is true that JHPs in handguns have a slight advantage as far as terminal ballistics go (due to the toughness of the jacket allowing a greater range of impact velocities where the bullet will perform well) but if you handload and are basically a hunter it matters little. You can adjust velocity and hardness, etc. to suit the task.

[rintinglen]

^Amen.
I bought my Winchester 71 for a very affordable price because the bore actually had verdigris growing off the layer of copper. The bore appeared to be totally shot. Two hours over several days, generous amounts of Hoppe's Number Nine, and a great deal of effort pumping brushes back and forth revealed a pristine expanse of steel in that barrel. It has seen 10 cast lead boolits for every jacketed or "other" bullet since then.
But back on topic, I knew only, at most, 2 dozen boolit casters out of some 350 members at the club I formerly belonged to. From time to time, I'd get some curious looks at my"steel-jacketed" 06 rounds.

[Winger Ed.]

The bore appeared to be totally shot. Two hours over several days, generous amounts of Hoppe's Number Nine,

Years ago, I got a CMP Garand that the bore looked like a pipe.
The guy sold it cheap, because the barrel was worn out although he had never cleaned it.

As a project, I cleaned it with only wet patches of Hoppe's #9 every day or two.
I ended up with almost a 1 gallon zip-lock bag full of green patches, but several weeks later- it looked new again.

[LeadRecycler]

At both of the clubs I'm a member at, any brass that is not snagged by a reloader goes to the scrap metal business for cash. At the one club that I do the recycling, I've put several THOUSAND dollars back into the club to pay for upkeep/improvements.


Why not get some volunteers to sort that brass, and offer it up for sale here? I'm betting you'll get far more than scrap value. One club I'm a member of sells the brass off the range to reloaders. I've offered to rebuild the berms for free, if I can keep the lead. Any payout above my costs would be split with the club.

[charlie b]

Copper fouling has to be removed chemically by toxic, foul smelling, corrosive solvents that are unpleasant to use and expensive. They are also all corrosive to the point that if they get into places you don't want them they will do damage. Lead fouling if not too bad is so easily removed as to be trivial. Sometimes I get a little and just push a bronze brush and some hoppes 9 down the barrel and it's gone...along with the carbon. If it's really bad a copper chore boy and bronze brush is used. Still it takes a fraction of the time and hoppes 9 is nothing like Barnes CR10 or Sweet's 7.62 which are needed to really remove copper.

You need to try some KG12. Not much smell and for me it works faster than Sweet's or even straight ammonia.

[megasupermagnum]

One aspersion that is complete rubbish as far as I am concerned regarding cast boolits is they "foul up the barrel." To this I reply that so do jacketed bullets, and copper fouling is 10x harder to remove.

The vast, vast majority of rifles I've bought used that were shot were caked up with copper fouling to the point their accuracy was diminished. This is a common phenomenon with new barrels as they aren't smoothed up yet, and it is one of the reasons I like to buy used.

Copper fouling has to be removed chemically by toxic, foul smelling, corrosive solvents that are unpleasant to use and expensive. They are also all corrosive to the point that if they get into places you don't want them they will do damage. Lead fouling if not too bad is so easily removed as to be trivial. Sometimes I get a little and just push a bronze brush and some hoppes 9 down the barrel and it's gone...along with the carbon. If it's really bad a copper chore boy and bronze brush is used. Still it takes a fraction of the time and hoppes 9 is nothing like Barnes CR10 or Sweet's 7.62 which are needed to really remove copper.

For handguns and straight wall rifles it is my contention that cast bullets perform as well or better than anything jacketed. It may take a little fiddling, and it is true that JHPs in handguns have a slight advantage as far as terminal ballistics go (due to the toughness of the jacket allowing a greater range of impact velocities where the bullet will perform well) but if you handload and are basically a hunter it matters little. You can adjust velocity and hardness, etc. to suit the task.

Finally someone agrees with me. I have NEVER had lead fouling that I would consider horrible to remove. Even loads that I knew would lead a barrel, as in full power 44 magnums with near pure lead only to see what would happen. I own a Lewis lead remover, but have not used it but one or two times since I bought it. A brass or copper brush with some copper chore boy will remove lead fouling in no time. It's not like you sit there for hours scrubbing. I have yet to spend more than 15-20 minutes cleaning a badly fouled barrel. Once you learn to size bullets, and at least get the alloy semi-close (anything from 20-1 to linotype works fine in nearly anything), cleaning can be done with nothing but patches.

As for copper fouling, what a mess. Sure, you can always ignore it. My 6mm Remington was a nightmare. I'm not exaggerating that it took DAYS of soaking then scrubbing, over and over until I finally got to bare metal. As long as you stay on top of the cleaning, you don't have to clean so thoroughly, but someone had obviously shot this rifle for years or decades and never once cleaned it. It builds up layers of copper and carbon that can't be removed without ammonia.

Also, lubed bullets lube your bore. No need to worry about rust.:lovebooli

[curioushooter]

Hoppe's 9 is a poor copper remover. It will do it, but takes forever. I've tried sweets and cr10 and hoppes bemchrest cr. The sweets and cr10 are no joke.

The worst fouling I've encountered was a Swiss k31 that had never been cleaned stateside and shot with that stupid cupro-nickel jacketed Swiss ammo. That stuff doesn't want to come out and hoppes 9 is one of few solvents that attacks nickel. It took a week and I had a bag I patches when done. My friend bought a Ruger mini 30 that had been shot much and rapidly with oversized (311) jacketed ammo and the bore looked like it was a pencil gauge shotgun. Took a week of commercials for sweets to do the job. If he was using hoppes well, he'd be doing it still probably.

[megasupermagnum]

Hoppe's #9 is very mild, which is why I like it so much. It is as good as anything for powder/primer fouling, also works decent for lead, and is mildly effective for copper. Hoppe's copper fouling cleaner is nasty stuff. I liked that Wipeout in a can. It was safe to leave sit in a barrel. On that 6mm I would spray it in the barrel, and it foamed up to fill. I would come back the next morning, wipe it out, and do it again. Every time I did it I got the brightest blue patches you ever saw. After 3 or 4 days of that, I finally started to get clean patches. That reminds me of one problem with Hoppe's copper fouling cleaner, and other aggressive ammonia cleaners. Even a clean barrel can leave blue patches because the stuff is so aggressive it leaves a blue false positive patch from the brass jag.

[44Blam]

So, I've been able to reach out and thump steel targets at 400 yards consistently with my Marlin 1895 and my NOE 460-396-RF boolits under some varget. This is with Skinner sights. I just got a Montana vernier sight...
I think I'll sight that thing in and do a video. Will call my video "Thumping the bleep out of that steel plate at 880 yards." Just give me a couple weeks.

At one outdoor pistol range I go to is 50 yards and has steel out there. And another one I go to is 100 yards with steel all over the place. I typically shoot at short and as far as it goes range and I shoot lead boolits. When I've been out there with my buddies we play a funny game of "Horse" where you call your shots and the next guy has to do it too. ;) "One to the cowboy, one to the hog, and three to the gong at the end of the lot."

[44Blam]

But honestly, cast boolits with proper fit are more accurate than the factory J-word bullets in normal shooting.

Where J-words start to really do better is under very high pressure, velocity and RPM.

[bangerjim]

I always get OOHS ans AAHS at the ranges when people see me shooting those rainbow colored boolits I make! And then when they find out about light loading that does not dislocate your shoulder.....they are even more fascinated.

But what we do takes a significant initial investment and an ever-growing continual investment (!!).....at least for me. Sit back and figure all the $$ you have invested into casting, molds, presses, dies, and mics goodies you use every day. And the space to do it all in. Many folks will not go that route and just shell out tons of money at gun stores for pre-loads.

It's more of a hobby than a money-saving thing for most of us.

To each his own!

bangerjim

[dverna]

I shoot jacketed rifle bullets because they perform better
I would shoot cast rifle bullets to save money for long range fun.
I would cast my own rifle bullets to save money.
Since finding Hornady bulk 55gr SP bullets for $420/6000....I lost any incentive to cast for rifles

I shoot cast pistol bullets to save money
I cast pistol bullets to save money

If I could purchase cast pistol bullets for $2.50/lb, I would not cast.

I have never found any advantages to using cast bullets except to save money. That is why casting is not popular. Most “normal” people will not consider any aspect of casting fun.

BTW, I have rifle bullet molds and plan on adding one more for the .30/30’s. I hope to never need them. They are for SHTF.

The examples some posted about outshooting users of jacketed bullets are silly. It was not the arrow, it was the Indian.

[curioushooter]

Regarding Hoppe's #9:


works decent for lead, and is mildly effective for copper.

No solvent I've tried does anything to lead. I took enough chemistry in college. Lead is a fairly inert metal and the things that will corrode it also corrode steel (or are very, very toxic and unusable). Lead is removed by mechanical action (brushing, scraping, rubbing). Any effect you think the Hoppe's is having in lead is mistaken for the effect the patch/brush is having.




Hoppe's copper fouling cleaner is nasty stuff. I liked that Wipeout in a can. It was safe to leave sit in a barrel.

Anything effective will be corrosive to a degree, and therefore cannot be left in the barrel too long. All the solvents that are effective on copper to my knowledge are ammonia-based. They put in other stuff too to help it out, but ammonia is what is corroding the copper. If something is marketed as ultra safe to me that says it is ultra slow/ineffective. There is no free lunch in chemistry. Ammonia is very mildly corrosive to steel and also to wood/plastic/nickel/copper-alloys like bronze and brass. A great way to ruin a nickel plated firearm is to leave ammonia-containing solvents on it.

One of the reasons I like Hoppes9 is because it is mild and very effective on carbon-fouling. It does remove a little copper (like from gas checks) if there is any. It is great for cast bullet solvent for this reason. It is a poor copper remover. Hoppes Benchrest CR is better, but still not as aggressive as CR10 or Sweets.

Anything claiming to be a cleaner - lubricant - protectant is useless at at least one of those jobs if not all three. They are mutually exclusive tasks. Any good cleaner will not be persistant and therefore a poor protectant, and probably a poor lubricant. Anything that is a good lubricant or protectant will be an useless cleaner.

Hoppes#9 and 3-in-one with silcone have done the job for me better than about anything else. If I want to store something long term Fluid Film or LPS3 are the best protectants.

Hornady One Shot Cleaner and Lubricant is a useless cleaner and a good lubricant and ok protecant. But it is in a can and expensive. I only use it when I need to use a spray can.

[megasupermagnum]

Hoppe's doesn't work well on lead because it dissolves it. It works well because it is thin and can get underneath it. Any kind of penetrating oil can do the same. I've also found that for your run of the mill lead fouling, no cleaner works best. A well fitting dry cotton patch pushes nearly all lead out in a pass or two.

As for the Wipeout cleaner, yes it is weak. It takes hours of working to do any real cleaning. What scares me about strong ammonia cleaners, is that I get distracted. There has been many times I've intended to let the cleaner work for only a couple minutes, and go to the bathroom, or clean another gun, or whatever. Then only to find myself an hour later in a panic realizing my mistake.

[curioushooter]

Hoppe's doesn't work well on lead because it dissolves it. It works well because it is thin and can get underneath it. Any kind of penetrating oil can do the same.

This is true. What removes it is mechanical action. This is why a cotton patch/jag with hoppes followed by a bronze brush and repeated if necessary is so effective. Long ago I switched to using nickel plated brass tipton jags. They are much better than plain brass because you can tell if you are removing fouling from the barrel and not confuse it with the solvent destroying the jag. Nylon jags are great too though often break. Hoppes9 is mildly corrosive to plastics BTW. It is added to help with shotgun wad fouling. Hoppes9 is an all-purpose cleaner so be mindful of that.


What scares me about strong ammonia cleaners, is that I get distracted. There has been many times I've intended to let the cleaner work for only a couple minutes, and go to the bathroom, or clean another gun, or whatever

Same here. Don't ask why I know that Hoppe's will ruin a nickel plated firearm.

[tankgunner59]

The same here. When I tell folks at the range that I make my own bullets they think I'm only talking about reloading. I get, Oh you probably pick up a lot of brass, or the like. Then I show them my colored bullets and they freak, Where did you get those? When I tell them I cast my own out of lead alloys either they want to know how, at which time I refer them here. Or they tell me that's too dangerous for me. That's when I tell them, well you don't do it while you're watching TV. It's a dedicated hobby and as long as you pay close attention to what you're doing it is safe.

[charlie b]

So, I'll mention it again. Try KG12 for copper removal. From what I understand (and the lack of smell) it is not ammonia based (it does not leave blue residue on the patches). And, it works faster. I do not know what it contains but you can watch it work as the copper disappears in the barrel. 30-60 seconds per application and it usually takes me 5 to 10 applications to completely clean the copper from the bore (I clean out the copper every 200 rounds or so). That's about 15 to 20 minutes, not hours.

I do keep some ammonia around to check that I have got all the copper out.

[15meter]

Why not get some volunteers to sort that brass, and offer it up for sale here? I'm betting you'll get far more than scrap value. One club I'm a member of sells the brass off the range to reloaders. I've offered to rebuild the berms for free, if I can keep the lead. Any payout above my costs would be split with the club.

The good stuff gets re-distributed to other reloaders at the club, the Blazer/odd head stamp/rimfire/berdan/stuff not many people reload goes to the scrap yard.

Some of the brass is worth more as scrap than it can be sold for. Not into more work for less cash.

[725]

Have had at least one encounter with all the experiences listed on this thread. Some are surprised, some curious, some doubtful & some steadfast nay sayers. Reminds me of Will Rogers observation that (paraphrase here) that some can learn by listening, some can learn by reading, but some just have to pee on the electric fence to find out for themselves. I can tell my good friends and fellow shooters that cast is a marvelous addition to the shooting sports and that in it's realm out-performs jacketed, and they just nod pleasingly. I know they don't believe me, but when I get one shot stops and they have multiple shots on game, they rationalize events with "running shot", "turned at the trigger pull", "windy", etc. Sure.

[444ttd]

i don't have to go to gun clubs or a state run gun range. i have a range at my house and another range in my dad's shop. 50, 100, 150, 200 all the up to 500 yards. i used to be able to shoot j-words at 500 yards, but that got boring and expensive. 8 or 9 years ago, i "found" Cast Boolits and i decided "what the h-e-double hockey sticks". i was and is a "new guy". i cast boolits and i buy boolits. the only j-words i buy is a 34gr hp for my 20 vartarg. i hunt deer and black bear(somewhat;-)) and i like to shoot alot. my younger brother is a big believer in 45-70 gummy tips and 270 win ballistic tips. he likes the "grenade effect" on deer. i, on the other hand, believe in penetration, the "thru-n-thru effect". i don't like recoil, he does. i like old rifles, he likes new rifles. i'm a wood and blued steel guy, he's a black plastic and stainless steel guy. i like the craftsmanship, he's a right now guy.

on gun cleaning, i despise it, i loathe it, i.......ugh!!! i use gunslicks foaming bore cleaner(i think its discontinued) to take it to bare steel. i spent 6 or 7 days to clean out the bore on the 1898 spr armory(30-40 krag). you put gunslicks in the bore and it foams. an hour later, you go to the nylon brush and rifle loop patches. then its gunslicks and wait a hour........i did that 8 - 10 hours each day. then the blue patches came out clean. that almost made me go back to j-words. the black gunk, copper, black gunk, cupronickel and black gunk.......did i mention black gunk. i've used gunslicks for years, but its only 2 or 3 times to clean a barrel (copper) to bare steel. i used it in my 91 mauser, 93 mauser, 96 mauser and 98 mauser. come to think about, my rifles bores are clean and shiny. must be the gas checks and the tight fitting boolits.

[barnabus]

The club I am a member is an outdoor range. I went out there Saturday morning with the idea of testing some ladder loads with
a NOE 310-167-FN-AK3 using a starting load of 23.0 gr of RL-7. I had 10 rounds ea. of loads in .5 gr increments up 25.0 gr.
I get out there and it is covered up and after finding an empty bench and getting set up the talkers come calling. Most of the guys I talked with
were reloaders shooting jacketed bullets of various makers. Then these guys find out I am shooting cast and that I cast my own, they look at you like
you are a freak of nature. Then the comments start with: Why would you even do that? or I wouldn't even consider even trying that.
Isn't that dangerous? And it goes on from there. It just got me to thinking, Am I the only one that gets these stares and comments?
I just find it interesting that most people are scared of casting your own.

lots of morons are allowed to own firearms.,,,i get that stupidity all the time.

[curioushooter]

Boy people seem to like that KG12, which is very expensive. It says water based and non-ammonia. The water based part is stupid, because amonia is aqueous solution, too. Can't seem to find out basically what it is, which I don't like, as I have no idea of how toxic it is. It is almost certainly a kind of Lewis base (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_acids_and_bases) that is cheap and not terribly toxic, though it is almost certainly more expensive and toxic than ammonia.

[David2011]

Where I shot action pistol in Louisiana almost all of the revolver, Single Stack, Limited and Open Class shooters loaded their own. The Production Class shooters were virtually 100% 9mm so not much reason to reload. Two of many of us were casters. The other one besides myself was a commercial caster that supplied most of the reloaders that used boolits.

[charlie b]

Boy people seem to like that KG12, which is very expensive. It says water based and non-ammonia. The water based part is stupid, because amonia is aqueous solution, too. Can't seem to find out basically what it is, which I don't like, as I have no idea of how toxic it is. It is almost certainly a kind of Lewis base (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_acids_and_bases) that is cheap and not terribly toxic, though it is almost certainly more expensive and toxic than ammonia.

It may be expensive, but, to me it is worth every penny. Toxic? Probably. But, also might be better than breathing ammonia fumes. :)

[mjwcaster]

Not many at my range seem to cast. Lots of the old guys did, especially when they competed years ago. But they have either stopped casting or just passed on.
I have gotten lead from some, others are still holding on to it just in case. Not a bad plan to be prepared and their kids can deal with it some day.

I do occasionally run into another reloader, but not often. And occasionally a couple of casters. Then again I try not to shoot if other people are there unless I know them to be safe. Too many idiots take the fun out of shooting.

There must be a few casters left, I am not the only one who mines the pistol berm.
Ran into one old couple a few years ago, I got excited when they showed up and strapped on old west rigs. Turns out they used to travel the country shooting Cowboy Action. He had the cutest boolit I have ever seen, from a milled down wadcutter mold, much shorter than it was wide. Talk about no recoil.
Given the skill and safety of many shooters, it might be a good thing most don’t cast or reload.
We have had more than a few guns blown up over the years.

But I have never had anyone talk down my shooting of cast boolits down much, even if they had bad experiences of their own.
Then again I don’t suffer fools well and can lack a filter, so they would probably shut up or move on quick.
Plus I can always turn off the volume on the muffs.


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