RV shopping. Madness.

[Idaho45guy]

Been looking at RVs for a couple of years and still haven't pulled the trigger on one. I've been on a couple of different RV forums and watched countless videos.

I want/need a 16' to 19' travel trailer that has decent ground clearance, under 4,000 lbs, queen-sized bed, bathroom I can fit in, and under $20,000.

Tow vehicle is a 2019 Toyota 4Runner with a 5k lb rating. Most I've towed with it is around 3k lbs, which was my utility trailer loaded with my UTV and camping gear. It did fine and did not struggle at all or feel even close to the limit, so I imagine 4500lbs or less will be fine. Will definitely get a weight distribution hitch for an RV.

It's amazing the junk that is being sold these days. Found a couple of RVs that fit the bill perfectly, then find out they are junk. Most notably, the Forest River Cherokee Wolf Pup.

Found a Winnebago Minnie Drop about 100 miles away in January that was on sale for $15k. Perfect. Couldn't pull the trigger. Just couldn't wrap my head around payments for 10 years on something I'd only use 3-4 times a year.

Then last night I started browsing RV sites and found one that is nearly perfect. New 2019 Palomino Puma XLE Lite for $13k. At a dealer 70 miles North of here. Palomino gets good reviews and seems like a solid economy RV. This one has a queen bed and two bunk beds, so perfect for taking my grandkids camping. I think I'm going to go up there on Tuesday to look at it and see if I can fit in the bathroom. I'm 6'2" and around 300lbs, so I've found a lot of bathrooms in RVs can't fit me due to height. Sitting on the toilet is close to doing yoga, as well, lol.

Got a $1 an hour raise last month, so that will cover the payment and insurance.

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I've looked at used, which a lot of folks recommend since all of the bugs have been worked out, but the older ones are heavy.

Found a good deal on a 2007 Airstream Bambi 19' locally. Amazing how expensive those are. Some farmer near here is selling it for $23K, which is actually a good deal. But, my dad said he's never been that impressed with them and that they really don't deserve the ridiculous prices people are asking for them. Plus, my girlfriend didn't like the layout, and it sits pretty low for the camping spots I like to go to.

So will go check out the Puma on Tuesday and see if I can get over the thought of more debt.

[Petrol & Powder]

My two cents worth is don't do it.
That extra money you're making will be more useful in the bank than a trailer you use 4 times a year. The other 350 plus days a year you will be paying for that trailer parked in your yard. That means payments, insurance, tags, maintenance and repairs. And while that money is going out of you're bank account, the value of that trailer will plummet like a meteorite crashing to earth. An RV is NOT an investment, it is a series of never ending costs.

If you're retired, a RV may be a bit more useful, A working man seldom has time to get enough use out of a RV to even begin making it worthwhile.

Now, that was pretty negative, here's some slightly positive outlook. If you use a RV as your housing while working away from home, it might make a little sense if you have a free place to park it. If you're building or renovating a house, a RV makes a little sense.

[Hickory]

Years ago there were several of us where I worked went to the trouble to figure out which was the most cost effective;
1) Tent camping.
2) Staying in hotels/motels.
3) Buying a camper of any size or type including camping fees.

The tent proved to be the most economical as well as practical.

Hotel/motel was more expensive than tent camping by 10 to 30% but more comfortable.

Buying, maintaining a mobile camper and paying camping fees not to mention insurance and fuel was far more expensive. Plus you give up the freedom of movement unless you park it and site see in your car or truck paying for a campsite while your not there.

The final choice will boil down to dollars you want to spend & comfort level you want.

[GhostHawk]

R-pod, I own a 189 which instead of a dinette has a couch facing the TV at the rear.

Queen sized bed, bit of a hassle to make. But 2 walmart sleeping bags zipped together works well.

3000 lbs is what mine weighed empty. Stash it full of camping gear in it and your vehicle and you can climb above that fast.

My tow vehicle is a 2012 Jeep Cherokee Larado with near 7k total. This gives me enough extra that I don't worry about it.

Did fine in the steep twisty roads in the Ozarks.

As noted above you can stay in a whole lot of hotels, Motels, Resorts for 20,000$.

I have not been unhappy with mine, but I am seriously wondering if I am going to be able to travel safely this winter.

Between the Covid, and the election, after which anything could happen. Just has me hunkering down at home.

Mine is currently an hours drive north of New Orleans just N of Covington LA at a cousin's. He's storing it for free, watching over it.

[MrWolf]

Been looking for a Class C. I'm retired and my girlfriend will be switching professions to one that can be done remotely. We have my dog (guess he is considered xlarge) plus her large dog. Neither of us can sit for extended periods but the C would allow us to rest while other drives. Still have reservations on whether it is worth it or not. Wont be feasible if we start having chickens, goats, and gardens as who would care for them? I could consider it a spare vehicle but was considering getting a beater truck just as a spare and towing one. My truck can tow 7,000 but I dont want to beat it if I have to tow my backhoe or utv. Interesting to hear the opinions folks are giving. Not much difference whether towing or drivable except the disconnect and drive ability.

[downzero]

If you can't pay cash, don't buy an RV. There is no way in hell I would borrow to buy something like that. Mine is 20 years old and works like a new one.

[marlin39a]

I’m single and retired. Bought the Winnebago Minnie Drop 2 years ago. It’s perfect for my needs. I boondock in the State forest quite a bit. Planning a trip to Tombstone. My original tow vehicle was a Toyota FJ Cruiser. I didn’t think it was good at towing. I bought a new Toyota Tundra last year, and it works perfectly. Yes, it’s expensive to own, but you only go around once.

[Thumbcocker]

We have been looking at a weeroll trailer. 6'x12'x6'. The one we are looking at is all aluminum with a commercial axle. You get a shell to complete for around $11K and you can pull it with anything. We don't care about a bathroom and don't stay at campgrounds. The unit we are eyeballing comes with 30" tires to get up forest service and BLM roads. When we camp we camp. We are not interested in campgrounds where you sit 10' from other people and watch tv. We want to go to wild and wooly places. We have used a tent for several years and want something that is a step up from the tent without sacrificing mobility. We have put a lot of thought and research into this and this is our selection. YMMV.

[Boz330]

A lot of good comments. I have owned 2 RVs mainly used during deer season. I bought used and they came with their share of issues. The second and one I still use is 20 years old and I have spent more maintaining it than I paid for it. Every year before season I pull it in and go over it. And it always needs work. Originally we were in it almost every weekend during season and it was great because we could cook and were within walking distance of our hunting stands etc. Now that my best friend has passed My Godson and I hunt but not nearly as much as before so it doesn't see near the use.
RVs that are towed a lot are going to have issues. Parking it outdoors without some sort of protection will take it's toll as well.
This one was 4 years old when I got it and the biggest problems have been from water leaks, both in the roof and some system leaks that occurred before I owned it. I would love to have a newer model but can't justify the outlay, so I just keep working on this one.

Bob

[Handloader109]

I'll post up my suggestion and that is, no, don't do it. tent camping or even cabin stays are available in a lot of places. lota payments for short time use.

[shooterg]

Plenty of campgrounds have facilities. Otherwise pack an E-tool with your tent. Kids enjoy setting up the tent ! Air mattresses pretty comfortable .

[brass410]

swmbo and I figure to buy a retired Penske cube truck, and have our handyman build inside the way we want it. the trucks a pretty reasonable to buy and as a journey man mechanic I can rebuild/fix any shortcomings of the truck. we figure all said and done about 14k full size bed and bath. the cube is 28ft so there's lots of room.

[Idaho45guy]

Plenty of campgrounds have facilities. Otherwise pack an E-tool with your tent. Kids enjoy setting up the tent ! Air mattresses pretty comfortable .

I've camped in a campground once, 20 years ago, and won't do that again.

Why pay $25 to live in a trailer park for the weekend, 20' from a camp full of either drunk people or screaming kids? All of my camping is off-grid, miles into the woods, at a homemade spot next to a creek or lake.

I have always used either a tent or my old pop-up. Then I started dating a woman who insists on a shower and a bathroom.

[Martin Luber]

Some campgrounds can cost $100 a night, buys a lot of hotel instead. Taking a dog is the difference

[Petrol & Powder]

If that $1/hour raise is burning a hole in your pocket, put it in the bank.
That extra money is better applied towards existing debt and if you have no debt, put it in a savings account. Life is lot less stressful when you have a little financial buffer.

If you want use of an RV for a few days, rent one. Let someone else: buy it, pay the taxes on it, maintain it and have the burden of selling it some day. RV's depreciate like rocks falling from the sky.
At $250 a night I could rent an RV for a 4 day stretch every year for 13 years before I reached that $13,000 price tag and that's NOT including the taxes, tags, insurance, maintenance, repairs and other expenses.

[Plate plinker]

RV sales executives are speculating that many will buy RVs for travel and avoid hotels after all this Virus stuff.

[Petrol & Powder]

People in the business of selling RV's are also speculating that they themselves will soon be unemployed if no one has money to buy RV's.

[brass410]

yeah we tried the campground thing a coupla times, but to crowded, we also used to throw our camp gear in the boat and take off on the lake and find a island or point (theres a lot of lakes here) but now we're getting a little more mature (aches pains age) and prefer a little more convienience theres a lot of public land with water access, so a hybrid RV suits our needs better and we'll use it more now that we've changed our work habits. we rented one to try it out and it worked really well but was not very cost effective so that's why we're going custom build.

[MrWolf]

brass410 can you keep us posted on your progress? That sounds interesting.

[Idaho45guy]

I've looked into buying an enclosed trailer and converting it to an RV. It's a lot of work for not much savings and tough to sell later. But you do end up with something exactly how you want it and higher quality. But with my work schedule, I barely even have time to mow the lawn, much less build an RV.

[jimlj]

I wouldn't do it. Being debt free has been the most comforting thing for me these past couple months. I can turn off the lights and cut my power bill, but a RV that isn't used still needs the payment made if you finance it.

[Petrol & Powder]

...... But with my work schedule, I barely even have time to mow the lawn, much less build an RV.


Then you will barely have time to USE a RV as well.

$13K plus, interest, tax, tags, insurance, maintenance and repairs is a lot of money for something that sits in the yard 98% of the time and depreciates constantly.

[Idaho45guy]

Then you will barely have time to USE a RV as well.

$13K plus, interest, tax, tags, insurance, maintenance and repairs is a lot of money for something that sits in the yard 98% of the time and deprecates constantly.

Good point.

[dverna]

I had a 5th wheel. It was a nightmare.

Was stranded at the Ohio State shoot with slides that would not retract. Called the factory and they would not help. Told me they would only talk to a repair tech. Told then I was an engineer and could deal with most mechanical/electrical stuff. Refused to help. DO NOT BUY A KEYSTONE PRODUCT

It was at the dealer 6 times for the fridge alone.

You will regret getting it. I had mine for six years, and lost $20k. It was not a cheap unit. They are all built like crap.

If you must get one, buy a good cargo trailer and build your own. Keep it simple.

[Idaho45guy]

Drove the 80 miles or so one way to check out the RV.

It was absolute garbage.

The leveling jacks were rusted, the shower surround was peeling off, several places the wallpaper was bubbling up, a clearance light was broken, and it was just a cheap feeling overall piece of garbage.

The one next to it was much, much nicer and the same size and basic layout, but was $10k more. The salesman explained that the one on sale was an "entry" model. So $13k just buy's junk??

[flyingmonkey35]

My 2 cents

I have owned 4 different motorhomes at different times.

1 class A
2 pull trailers
1 5th wheel
And now I'm on my class c.

Rule 1 Do not buy new.
Rule 2. Do NOT buy from a dealer
If your break rules 1 and 2

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT BUY A EXTENDED WARRANTY. they will not honor it.

Do not pay for any hidden bull fees. Such as
Prep fee
Check out fee
Shipping/ transport fee.
Title transfer fee.

The dealership wants you to pay for shipping? And them making sure it works before they give it to you? Really ***?

Title transfer fee ? Nooo thank you.

Paperwork fees? Not a chance.



Every RV will have its quirks.
Let someone else take the hit figuring them out.


I may have missed it but are you town camping vist kids?

Or camping camping?


When your are outdoor camping my wife states it's a portable toilet that has a nice bed. That has enough storage to to clamping. And she will not go camping without those things.

If you are doing city camping. RV resorts will have showers houses. Laundry facilities etc. What you pack is completely different.

It should be a comfortable retreat.

Plan on buying a real mattress. Keep that In mind when looking. If it's a odd ball master bed you will probly not like it.


Last thing THIS is your money your spending tell any dealer to shove it if they get pushy with you.





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[Plate plinker]

^^^ good points I would add look for one that was stored in a building. That’s the best you can get when I comes to not being destroyed by the elements.

[Idaho45guy]

Decided to hold off for a while.

If something used comes along that is perfect and a good deal that I can pay cash for, then I'll go that route.

[waksupi]

I found an older 17' Fleetwood Prowler last summer for under 4 grand. It was at a local "Park and Sell", so I had a good opportunity to look at it inside out, upside and down before even contacting the owner. I've done minor work on it, and it looks like new now. No way would I pay more for something that offers the same things all the expensive ones have.

[Screwbolts]

I have always bought used camping trailers, started with a 21' 75 Coachman many years ago (early 90s), then a 17.5' 86 Sunline unit to fill a gap that a divorce took. Next was a 25' 95 Sunline used for 11 years. Now we are starting our 4th season on our current 31' RLDS 08 Keystone Hornet. First thing I look at is the Bathroom for is it roomy enough! I would never borrowed money to buy a unit. I do not camp in camp grounds period. I do fly RC airplanes and our camper goes to many flying events each year. No hookups, so we use Generators. Yes I carry two, a 1000 watt Yamaha for general charging and stuff and a 4000 watt Champion for AC, that stays in the back of my first gen diesel Dodge D350 . Campers are a require regular maintenance and I do all my own. Roof condition is always primary. a water leak will destroy the limited structure of a unit real fast. Keep them sealed and dry and they can last a long time.

I suggest tandem wheel on whatever you decide on, they tend to tow straighter and with a less substantial tow vehicle.

WWG1WGA,
Ken

[Wayne Smith]

Look at this in the context of your complete financial situation. Do you have adequate retirement funds? Have you any idea what 'adequate' is? Do you have your house paid off or do you still have payments? You are far better off putting that extra money in the house, simply because every penny over your monthly house payment goes directly to principle. That means you get to screw the bank out of the interest they expect. We paid our last 15 year mortgage off in 9 years. The bank got only a little bit more than half of the interest they expected.

[mtnman31]

I look at RV's like boats. If you aren't planning to use them a couple times a month, they are a money pit. Boats, RVs, and aircraft are a lifestyle - if you aren't using them regularly you're better off to rent, or make due with something else. I'm surrounded by neighbors who have boats and RVs that haven't moved in years. I've got one neighbor who uses his beautiful 5th wheel twice a year, Memorial Day and Labor Day. I love being out on the water, but the reality is that I know I wouldn't be out more than once or twice a month. As it is now, I have friends with a boat and they love having company. In my opinion, having an RV to use it only a few times a year is not money well spent. On the other hand, once you get out there a few times, you and your girlfriend may really take a liking to it and end up doing it more often than you think. I'd say your best be is to rent an RV a couple times and see how it goes. Renting will also give you the chance to try out a couple different brands/models and see what features you love and which ones could live without.

[trebor44]

Interesting enclosed trailer conversions on you tube. And there are some either fully or partially done ones that are for sale. MY suggestion is one that has a front (side) door and a rear door. I like the one that has a drop down ramp door that can be configured as a "patio". I have seen used 'rental' trucks that were 'converted' to RV's. Lots of options out there and having worked in a trailer mfg. plant, and lived in one for several years I would never buy a pre-built! They never have what I like but they do have lots of filler stuff.

[Murphy]

I've only owned one RV in my life. That was 20 years ago and I can't even remember the brand, but definitely an older model. I bought it used on the cheap. It served it's purpose for my needs for a few years, deer season's. Other than that, one trip to the local state park for a weekend retreat. It could have driven back and forth to the state park, it's only 25 miles. But to each their own and everyone dreams. My deer hunting all took place about 55 miles from my house. Typically, a 11-12 day stay. It sure was nice when the rains rolled in not being in a tent. Along about 10-12 years back, all of my deer hunting (450,000 acres) went lease hunting only. A major game changer and I bid farewell to an old friend. I guess it all depends on ones real need for one. There are a good deal of used RV's (campers) in my area. Most were bought for deer seasons. They spend probably 11 months out of the year just sitting out next to the house. It doesn't take long for some to realize their investment vs their return isn't working out all that well. Good luck on your search.

Murphy

[kerplode]

I don't understand the appeal of RVs and campers.

Several of my neighbors have these monstrosities. Once or twice a year, they'll haul them over from the storage lot and spend a week screwing around prepping and fixing. Then they load up half their house and disappear for 2 days. When they come back, they cart all their crap back into the house and spend another couple days screwing around fixing stuff before hauling it back to the storage lot.

And once you get the thing fixed and load half your house into it, you end up at a crowded campground full of other RVs running generators and all that nonsense.

Seems like a colossal waste of time and money to me. Just pack a bag and go tent/car camping. Or rent a hotel. They could book a luxury suite several time a year for a week at a time for just what they spend on the storage lot...Not to mention the payments they make to a depreciating asset.

Anyway, not my thing. If I ever got the urge to do RV stuff, I might just rent one for that once a year trip. Or maybe look into converting a Sprinter van or something. At least with that thing, you could use it as a daily-driver when you're not "camping"

[Petrol & Powder]

decided to hold off for a while.

If something used comes along that is perfect and a good deal that i can pay cash for, then i'll go that route.


wise decision.

[Handloader109]

Just thinking about this more. Had a friend that loved to ride horses. He took a 20 ft enclosed horse trailer, would get to destination. Take out horses and stake them. Roll out AstroTurf inside, and make it an open living space. Good option and cheapest

[Idaho45guy]

Just thinking about this more. Had a friend that loved to ride horses. He took a 20 ft enclosed horse trailer, would get to destination. Take out horses and stake them. Roll out AstroTurf inside, and make it an open living space. Good option and cheapest

Have you ever smelled the inside of an enclosed horse trailer? I grew up on a small ranch and raised horses and been to a few shows. My folks have a nice 6-horse trailer with the tack room up front. It gets power washed between uses and it still stinks on the inside. I can't imagine someone sleeping in one.

[wv109323]

There is a downside to a camping trailor that is self contained. There has to be a storage tank of some type. Think of what goes into it and how you are going to dispose of it. A lot of work with a lot of unpleasant smells. You may use the shower but for the bath we used the path. If your girlfriend will not "ruff it" then there is far more work to pack and unpack all the luxuries of home for the weekend.
No trailer has a hvac that will compete with your home. So extreme hot or cold weather they are uncomfortable.
Your food is mostly heat up or microwave which can't compete with homecooked. You can burn your food over a campfire or outside grill. But you can grill at home and you don't need to pack and unpack the grill.
If you don't have time to mow the grass, how are you going to find time to camp. At when you get home that grass will need mowed. It don't quit growing while you camp.
I rent a motel close to where I want to be and spend the day in the woods. I head back to the motel and restaurents at night.
If you and your girlfriend "came to relax" it is a lot more work to camping.
But it is whatever floats your boat.

[MrWolf]

wv109323 - Kinda the same thinking. It sounds like a good thing to do but when you break it all down then not so much. Between our dogs, wanting to get some chickens, goats, gardening, and greenhouse we are going to be very busy. Along with both our neck/back issues. Another issue who is going to watch our place when gone? Very rural. Good chance nothing but what if someone finds out gone for extended period? Got a few toys and hobbies that I dont need to go missing.

[fiberoptik]

Look at this in the context of your complete financial situation. Do you have adequate retirement funds? Have you any idea what 'adequate' is? Do you have your house paid off or do you still have payments? You are far better off putting that extra money in the house, simply because every penny over your monthly house payment goes directly to principle. That means you get to screw the bank out of the interest they expect. We paid our last 15 year mortgage off in 9 years. The bank got only a little bit more than half of the interest they expected.

Actually if you don’t “specify” extra $$ to go to principal, they just add it to the next payment.


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[Smoke4320]

Had 2 will NEVER own another RV. Its like race cars and boats. never ending money pit. Save the money and get hotel rooms. hey even get a nice tent set it up at a campground use during the day and go to the hotel room at night or 2 days in the tent and 1 at the hotel. You will be miles ahead in money and options

[Idaho45guy]

Had 2 will NEVER own another RV. Its like race cars and boats. never ending money pit. Save the money and get hotel rooms. hey even get a nice tent set it up at a campground use during the day and go to the hotel room at night or 2 days in the tent and 1 at the hotel. You will be miles ahead in money and options

We don't do campgrounds out here.

This was me, my dad, and brother's set up last elk season...

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[jimlj]

The bottom picture looks way better than the log we used to use when I was a kid.

[Idaho45guy]

The bottom picture looks way better than the log we used to use when I was a kid.

Yeah, that's luxury camping for me. A good wall tent with a stove, cots and air mattresses, and a homemade bucket toilet with a shelter is the lap of luxury to me. But, my girlfriend said she also needs a heated shower, which is doable.

The downside of that set up is that it takes 3 men about 3-4 hours to get everything set up and ready, and just as long to get it torn down and packed up. Not worth it if just going into the woods for a couple of days. On that trip, it was 10 days in the middle of nowhere. Which is why an RV is so appealing; just park it, level it, set up the awning, and you're ready. When I had my tent camper, it was about an hour to set everything up, which wasn't bad. Just no shower or toilet.

[gpidaho]

If you really want to treat the grandkids a couple weekends each year several places you can rent a nice trailer or small motor home by the day. I know, $85 a day might sound steep but unless your paying cash up front the interest on the loan is much more and then you don't have storage to pay or a yard ornament sitting out front. Gp

[Idaho45guy]

If you really want to treat the grandkids a couple weekends each year several places you can rent a nice trailer or small motor home by the day. I know, $85 a day might sound steep but unless your paying cash up front the interest on the loan is much more and then you don't have storage to pay or a yard ornament sitting out front. Gp

I looked into that and the nearest place that rents them is 70 miles away, in the opposite direction of where I would use it. Also, none of the camp trailers available are towable by my SUV; too big. So that means I have to rent a motorhome, which the cheapest is $230 a night, and can't get into the spots I normally camp in.

Sure, still cheaper in the long run, but still not ideal.

Oddly enough, nearly every RV for rent around here is owned by private citizens who apparently rent out their RVs.

[jsizemore]

Decided to hold off for a while.

If something used comes along that is perfect and a good deal that I can pay cash for, then I'll go that route.

I grew up in campers. We lived in one and traveled the country till I had to start school. 3 weekends/month were camping. We did the trailer, camper shell/tent and slide in. As you age, your needs/abilities change and there's no telling what the future holds. Wait till you get there to decide. That tall trailer entrance may be too hard to get in 10 years from now and will be worth spit when you decide to trade or sale. You need to include in your price a shelter to park it under. Keep in mind that the weight reduction for a "Lite" trailer has to come from somewhere and that's usually the structure itself. That Airstream seems expensive until the bills come due on the "Lite".

[Ed K]

A coworker had a daily driver that was quite a unique DIY setup. His brother-in-law was a truck dealer that set him up with a Peterbilt sleeper cab. Popped off the fifth wheel and added a box that just overhanged the frame a bit. He open the ramp rear door to expose two Harleys tied down to the floor and kayaks and fly rods covering the walls. Not for everyone but unique!

[Idaho45guy]

A coworker had a daily driver that was quite a unique DIY setup. His brother-in-law was a truck dealer that set him up with a Peterbilt sleeper cab. Popped off the fifth wheel and added a box that just overhanged the frame a bit. He open the ramp rear door to expose two Harleys tied down to the floor and kayaks and fly rods covering the walls. Not for everyone but unique!

I've seen some pretty cool custom RV when visiting Yuma. Old guys get pretty creative!

[Petrol & Powder]

There are few things that will separate you from your money faster than an RV or a boat.

Unless you are really, really using that thing a lot, rent one. Even with extreme rental fees you will come out ahead.

[MaryB]

I grew up fishing up at the lake every weekend. Mom and dad had a camper they parked year round at a campgrounds that had power, water, sewer hookups so nothing to mess with there. We packed food and beer and went! If you can find a spot to leave it all summer or year round they can pay for themselves... the camper lot included a dock and dad bought a boat lift so his boat stayed up at the lake and we towed mine up(I used it mid week a LOT to fish the local river).

Took us an hour to set the awning out, move the grill to where we cooked... coolers sat on the deck next to the door so the only things we had to drag in were food and bedding. Dad swapped the water heater to a small 20 gallon electric, and the camper fridge was replaced with a regular fridge so less items to break/need propane. From early may to the end of October we spent every weekend and a couple full weeks up there.

Since my family had 6 of the 12 lots it was basically a family reunion all summer. Both my uncles had campers, older brother and older sisters had campers there. Security was VERY good with the resort owner or his kids coming by once an hour, the gate was locked at 10pm(we all had keys) to keep strangers form driving up there. 8 years up there, the resort owner and kids were basically family to us after awhile.