Why are replacement loops so expensive?

[Tripplebeards]

I mean, come on...really??? A loop is about five cents worth of metal at most. I really wanted to get a bigger loop for my 336 but I’m not spending $100 or more that’s ridiculous. You would think on the real world $18 to $25 in the real world would be a responsible replacement price. Im going to call Marlin direct so see how much a factory larger loop replacement will run on Monday. Normally direct from Remington isn’t that bad of of a price for replacement parts in my past dealings with them. The Aftermarket lever action loop manufacturers must just pray on us for wanting a larger cowboy Loop. Guess I’m just gonna live with my small loop. For the price most want for loops I can purchase a used gun if I power shop.

[NSB]

The cost of the metal is the smallest cost involved in making a lever. If we figured only the cost of materials, you'd be buying a new Chevy Suburban for around a thousand bucks. Someone's paying for a building, insurance, help, utilities, taxes, design, machinery, etc, etc, etc. I remember my grandfather one time complaining about the cost of a hotel room. He said, "fifty bucks just for a place to sleep"! I guess it didn't occur to him that he was getting clean sheets, a made up bed, his room cleaned, heat/AC, lights, hot water, building, grounds, taxes, etc, etc, etc. I guess he just figured that a mattress was a couple of hundred bucks and it got used hundreds of times. Should have only cost him a buck or two to stay there :shock: Think about it.

[Tripplebeards]

I understand the cost of paying for machining, employees, and keeping the lights on but I still think lever loops are grossly overpriced for what they are.

[725]

Market forces.

[dragon813gt]

Limited market. They’re selling a little for a lot to make any sort of profit. If the market was large enough there would be a lot of options at low prices. The AR market is the perfect example of this.

[Scrounge]

I understand the cost of paying for machining, employees, and keeping the lights on but I still think lever loops are grossly overpriced for what they are.

Buy yourself a milling machine, and some metal, and start making your own. I'm not going exactly there, but I did buy a mini-mill yesterday. And a box of end mills for it. He said there was about a thousand dollars worth of end mills in there, and wanted $100 for it. I didn't have that much left, so he gave it to me for $62. I've just now been looking through the box. Most of the end mills are solid carbide. They can be $50 apiece or more, really easily! You can do that sort of work with a file, but its a great deal easier with a milling machine and the right cutters. I did use a file to cut the T-nut for my AXA toolpost. Took about 4 hours. This mini-mill and a half-inch cutter would have done it in about 20 minutes, and most of that spend doing the setup.

[Scrounge]

Limited market. They’re selling a little for a lot to make any sort of profit. If the market was large enough there would be a lot of options at low prices. The AR market is the perfect example of this.

yep, nailed it. One Bridgeport or equivalent milling machine, new, can run over $20K. I've seen some factories where they have over 100 of them. Gotta have someone to maintain them, spare parts, raw materials, and operators for each one. At least double the cost for a CNC machine.

[NSB]

You can sell parts for a lot less when the volume goes way up. It's all supply and demand.

[bowfin]

Because an enlarged metal loop is something you WANT, not something everybody needs. Producers know that they can tack on a hefty profit on things people want. For example, people who wouldn't bat an eye at buying a Harley Davidson for $30,000 because they want it will gripe endlessly when the gas that goes into it costs over $2.00 a gallon...even though they need it.

The lever on your rifle is all you NEED, but you WANT something else. The person who fulfills that want is going to get handsomely paid for it.

[Shawlerbrook]

Compared to the price of plastic replacement automobile parts, the price of well made in the USA, steel gun parts like levers seem very reasonable.

[GregLaROCHE]

Machining isn’t cheap especially, if it’s one off. Sounds like the perfect job for a CNC mill. Maybe there’s VoTech school near you, who would take it in as a project. We used to go to them years ago, before CNC, to save money on having machine work done for hobby projects.

[Winger Ed.]

I mean, come on...really??? A loop is about five cents worth of metal at most.

I have to chuckle at this.
My Mom was that way (unless she was selling something).
'How can they charge so much for this, don't they have to sleep at night too"?

After hearing that so often for about 40 years, I finally asked her once,
"How much would you charge to make, and market one of those"?

[Oldgold]

Get the Chinese in on it.
“But, American made, Dangit”
Can’t have it both ways.

[pietro]

I understand the cost of paying for machining, employees, and keeping the lights on but I still think lever loops are grossly overpriced for what they are.

I would suggest that you try making one yourself from scratch, not reshaping an existing lever, and you will shortly find out that they're not grossly over-priced - besides, profit is not a dirty word under capitalism...…..

.

[Winger Ed.]

I would suggest that you try making one yourself from scratch, not reshaping an existing lever, and you will shortly find out that they're not grossly over-priced - besides, profit is not a dirty word under capitalism...…...

^^This^^

The first ones made for Chuck Conners on 'The Rifleman' TV show were shop made from the factory original.

I'd seen a article on how to do it years ago.
The guy cut the loop, heated it to reshape the bend, and made the filler piece from a long box end wrench,
and put it together.

All things considered:
If I wanted one, I'd figure $100 was pretty cheap compared to making it myself.

[Plate plinker]

Ya try that and getting it just right then matching the blue. Pay the $100 and smile.

[GregLaROCHE]

Unless you are getting personal satisfaction from making one yourself, spend the hundred and start shooting it. Or else you could sell what you have and buy exactly what you want.

[Scrounge]

Machining isn’t cheap especially, if it’s one off. Sounds like the perfect job for a CNC mill. Maybe there’s VoTech school near you, who would take it in as a project. We used to go to them years ago, before CNC, to save money on having machine work done for hobby projects.

CNC is not suited for a one-off. Sometimes not even for a short run. Unless you have a niche market, and a small and inexpensive CNC mill, and the skills needed to run it. You can get a small commercial CNC mill for around $10K. It's probably big enough to do a lever like OP wanted. The school I'm going to for precision manual machining also teaches CNC. My class was $1800, and it's a subset of the CNC class, which was $4200 last I looked. Lots of guys don't finish the class, because they get hired before they graduate.

[Skooterr]

"Buy Once, Cry Once", then move on.
Want, more than Need principal applies here.

[Kev18]

I bought a repro lever for my 1886 and cut it up to make a large loop. Didnt take long. Didn't cost alot either .

[dangitgriff]

I purchased a medium-loop lever from Ranger Point Precision for my 1894C and couldn’t be happier.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

And the lever is not just a simple lever. It serves the dual purpose of bolt lugs, holding the bolt closed and determining headspace. So it needs to be a certain hardness and shaped properly to interface with the bolt. An aftermarket one will be oversized and require careful fitting.

[megasupermagnum]

You don't know overpriced until you start working on Makino CNC's. Their barrel screens are nothing more than a fancy window screen with a few holes punched into it. They want $3000. There has been many days I've considered starting a business selling aftermarket CNC parts.

[Hickory]

One of the few drawbacks of capitalism, if you really want something and someone has it and you can't get anywhere else, you have to pay to get it.

[4given]

Where can you get one for only $100?

[country gent]

I believe the levers are a forging to start with. That adds a big power hammer and forge dies to the equipment list. but it saves on material costs and machining. labor machines fixtures all add to the cost way over the cost of materials. Then add in the cost of expendables like cutters coolants wheels for finishing ect.

I believe If I wanted one I would order a replacement loop or scrounge a used one. ( gun parts corp or other used vendors) And cut and rework myself to just what was wanted. The biffest thing would be the welding it back together in the new form. The rest can be one with hand tools.

[bruce drake]

My father did that for his straight stock Marlin lever-action in 44 Magnum in the 90's. A bit of cutting and welding and a bit of judicious filing before a reblue and boom, big D-loop lever for a big gloved hand for winter hunting in Maine. My older brother inherited that rifle when I got the Win 94 in 32 Win Spl. I think we both appreciate the rifles we got but I do remember my dad doing that to his "new" rifle after one weekend in November.

[Markopolo]

ahhhhh come on trip... just buy the thing... then maybe send me a pic... then I will have to buy one, and together we will bost back up our limping economy!!!

[afish4570]

I pistol shoot with a club member who is also into Cowboy shooting matches...and places high in the larger matches. Several months ago I asked him if I shot put the big loop on my Marlin 38/357 and he said it is all hype watch what the winners use. Stock loops are quicker to shoot. afish4570

[downzero]

You can sell parts for a lot less when the volume goes way up. It's all supply and demand.

Actually the concept you are looking for is called "economies of scale."

[Tripplebeards]

I pistol shoot with a club member who is also into Cowboy shooting matches...and places high in the larger matches. Several months ago I asked him if I shot put the big loop on my Marlin 38/357 and he said it is all hype watch what the winners use. Stock loops are quicker to shoot. afish4570



Thanks for the heads up...

I tried a large loop yesterday and don’t like it. Way to much room in the loop as it felt awkward to cycle. I have to move my arm even more forward to cycle the action.
I have a 32.5” arm length for archery string length and with my limbsaver grind to fit butt pad I’m really reaching the way it is. I’ll stick with my smaller factory loop.


I’d have to cut my stock down To shorten the length of pull to cycle a large loop without dropping the gun from my shoulder. Maybe I’ll do it on a different rifle done day. This one is staying factory original accept for the butt pad, optic, and rings.

[dangitgriff]

One of the few drawbacks of capitalism, if you really want something and someone has it and you can't get anywhere else, you have to pay to get it.

Economics 101. Scarcity determines price, all else being equal.

[kenton]

CNC is not suited for a one-off. Sometimes not even for a short run. Unless you have a niche market, and a small and inexpensive CNC mill, and the skills needed to run it. You can get a small commercial CNC mill for around $10K. It's probably big enough to do a lever like OP wanted. The school I'm going to for precision manual machining also teaches CNC. My class was $1800, and it's a subset of the CNC class, which was $4200 last I looked. Lots of guys don't finish the class, because they get hired before they graduate.

That is really not true at all, some CNC machines are defiantly not suitable for one offs or short runs but there are machines that are designed expressly for that kind of work. I run machines like these at work and according to one of my older coworkers they are the reason we put significantly more work through the shop despite having one less person than when he started

https://www.southwesternindustries.com/products/bed-mills

They use what is referred to as conversational programming instead of traditional G code programming. It is quite intuitive and quick in my experience.

[KCSO]

Take off the old loop, cut weld and file and polish and then reblue it. There you go only abut 2 hours of your work...by the way how much do you make an hour? And you do have all the tools and a bluing tank right?

[robg]

try buying motor bike brake discs/rotors.

[indian joe]

Thanks for the heads up...

I tried a large loop yesterday and don’t like it. Way to much room in the loop as it felt awkward to cycle. I have to move my arm even more forward to cycle the action.
I have a 32.5” arm length for archery string length and with my limbsaver grind to fit butt pad I’m really reaching the way it is. I’ll stick with my smaller factory loop.


I’d have to cut my stock down To shorten the length of pull to cycle a large loop without dropping the gun from my shoulder. Maybe I’ll do it on a different rifle done day. This one is staying factory original accept for the butt pad, optic, and rings.

The only place these big loops are useful is in the movies or if you hunt in gloves ------for the rest of - stock standard mostly is better - that said - I have a 71 browning 348 that dings my knuckles on the two middle fingers because of the steep curve that matches the stock shape - doesnt need a big loop but would be nicer if the outer part of the lever was straight rather than curved - might mess up the lines of the gun but would be nicer to shoot I reckon.

[elmacgyver0]

You think $100 is bad for a lever?
Try buying one of those little flip up ladder sights.
I bought one and insult to injury the dovetail in my 94 is too large and the dovetail in my Interarms Rossi 44 is to small and wrong angle to boot.
The new Rossi 357 it would fit on but I like the sight on it.
Someday I will make it fit on one of my rifles, until then it just sits in a drawer.

[W.R.Buchanan]

You don't know overpriced until you start working on Makino CNC's. Their barrel screens are nothing more than a fancy window screen with a few holes punched into it. They want $3000. There has been many days I've considered starting a business selling aftermarket CNC parts.

Tell me about it! I just had to pay $1876.00 yesterday, which I didn't have, and drive to Compton too boot!!! to get a rebuilt Control for my Mill which is the primary machine in my shop. This was just because the CRT in the control box croaked! IE: you can't see nothin'.

The CRT is now an LCD and will never croak, but why couldn't they just replace the CRT in MY Control for $600. Oh wait they could,,,

IN 6-8 weeks!

Obviously I couldn't be down that long, so bend over and make sure you swallow as you're driving back up the 405 on the way home.

You pays your money and takes your chances. Life goes on and really nobody cares about my trials and tribulations, but me.

Randy

[BigEyeBob]

Take off the old loop, cut weld and file and polish and then reblue it. There you go only abut 2 hours of your work...by the way how much do you make an hour? And you do have all the tools and a bluing tank right?

Exactly what I did to my 1972 vintage Marlin 1895 ,I lengthened the lever loop so I could get all of my fingers inside the loop to prevent ripped skin between my pinkie and third finger .Just cut up a grade five 3/8 bolt with a long shank , cut the lever and added 1inch of bolt top and bottom welded it and filed it all down to match . Reblued and its a win , took about 1 1/2 hrs plus blueing time .I did this in the late 70's ,dont recall seeing aftermarket levers in those days ,but then no internet either. The lever looks factory until you compare to a rifle with the factory unmodified loop.