Am I the only one who's ROA isn't reliable?

[megasupermagnum]

I sure feel like it when searching the web. Lots of accuracy tips, lots of gunsmithing, not a single hint of a less than reliable old army.

I bought mine a few months ago in fantastic condition, it even came with the original box with wrench. The first thing I did before even shooting it was to buy new nipples from Track of the wolf. I have TOTW nipples on all my guns, they work great. I have only tried CCI #11 mag caps, and they work great in every other gun I have. The problem is my gun will not set off caps reliably. By that, I mean half of the time it will not set them off. At first I thought it was a problem seating the caps. I tried different cappers, and really leaned on the hammer to try and seat them. This did not help. I have tried both sets of nipples with no difference at all. I tried first polishing the nipples. Then while in a drill, I turned the nipples down with a file until the caps practically fell on. They are being fully seated, I guarantee it. Still no improvement, if anything it is now worse. My hammer spring seems plenty strong, but I'm considering trying to locate an extra power one anyway.

Today I called Ruger, and they are sending me out a set of their own nipples to try for free. They say if these don't work, it is a cap problem. They recommend #10 Remington caps. I will try those caps just to see how they work.

So has anyone else ever had reliability problems with their old army? What was the fix?

[Maven]

msm, I had the same cap ignition problem that you have. To wit, it usually took 2 strikes to fire the caps with either the factory nipples or the Uncle Mike's I replaced them with. The Uncle Mike's were no better than the originals. Because the gun was so unreliable, I rarely took it to the range. And you know 2 strikes to fire the gun doesn't exactly make for the most accurate shooting.(LOL) Not long ago I read several glowing endorsements of Slix Shot nipples and, having nothing to lose, purchased a set. Let me tell you, the difference is amazing: The ROA is now as reliable as my CF cartridge revolvers and is as accurate as my BH or SBH.

One other thing: I'd been using Speer swaged .457" RB's with a felt grease wad underneath, but couldn't get the accuracy I wanted even with the Slix Shot nipples. I then tried home cast .457" RB's from a Lee Precision mould and all was right with the world.

Hope this helps!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I am making a post here, mostly just to follow this thread.

I guess I consider myself lucky, my ROA with original factory nipples, fires reliably with Remington #10 caps.
I've also used some DIY caps (successfully/reliably) made with MannyCA's cap maker.

Also, I used the Lee 457 RB mold with success.
I tried the Lee Conical mold (with healed base) designed for ROA, and I did NOT have success with that. I also tried loading some GB lee 45 cal collar Button boolits...they were a pain to load and I am sure they got deformed during loading, anyway they were NOT accurate at all.

[Tatume]

When any percussion gun doesn't fire caps the first thing I look for is an off-square hammer blow. Next time look at the caps. Are they dented on one edge but not the other. If so, that is the problem.

I've never seen this happen with a Ruger Old Army, but I've seen it plenty of times with cap lock rifles. There are thee ways it occurs.

1. The hammer got bent in a fall or safe rash. The solution is to slightly bend the hammer so that it strikes square.

2. The owner replaced the nipple with one that is either longer or shorter than it should be. The solution here is obvious.

3. The owner wants to switch from rifle caps to musket caps, or vice versa. Here the solution is the same as in #1.

However, since it is happening with your ROA, the correct nipples that Ruger sent you will probably fix it.

[Battis]

From an old Colt Industries pamphlet (nipples are nipples):
"Percussion caps are now made in sizes from nine to thirteen. Ten and eleven are the best numbers for the small and medium-sized arms, and twelve for the larger sizes, although, as different-sized nipples are sometimes met in specimens of the same model, no hard and fast rule can be given. It is better to have caps slightly too large than too small, as large caps can be pinched together at the bottom enough so they will stay on the nipples, but small ones must be driven down on the nipple by the blow of the hammer, and this process frequently cushions the blow to the extent of producing a misfire."

Also, did you strip the gun down to see if there's a spent cap jamming the spring?

[Gtek]

Sorry, curious and have to ask. On a released hammer sitting up behind a clean (no cap) nipple, have you confirmed hard set, just touching, almost touching?

[smithnframe]

Mine are both absolute tackdrivers and very reliable!

[Outpost75]

With hammer down on nipple hammer should pinch a 0.002" shim, but not contact nipple when shim is removed. If hammer face or nipples show peening either hammer or nipples are incorrect. Common problem is not adequately cleaning nipple seats and failing to bottom nipples in sockets, so that they stand proud due to fouling.

[ShooterAZ]

I also had some problems with CCI #11 Caps. I got new TOTW nipples, layed in a bunch of Remington #10 caps and have had no problems since. I have both the LEE and RCBS .457 RB molds, both cast a great roundball. Outpost75 brings forth some problem possibilities as well, inadequate cleaning of nipples/seats.

[rodwha]

I sure feel like it when searching the web. Lots of accuracy tips, lots of gunsmithing, not a single hint of a less than reliable old army.

I bought mine a few months ago in fantastic condition, it even came with the original box with wrench. The first thing I did before even shooting it was to buy new nipples from Track of the wolf. I have TOTW nipples on all my guns, they work great. I have only tried CCI #11 mag caps, and they work great in every other gun I have. The problem is my gun will not set off caps reliably. By that, I mean half of the time it will not set them off. At first I thought it was a problem seating the caps. I tried different cappers, and really leaned on the hammer to try and seat them. This did not help. I have tried both sets of nipples with no difference at all. I tried first polishing the nipples. Then while in a drill, I turned the nipples down with a file until the caps practically fell on. They are being fully seated, I guarantee it. Still no improvement, if anything it is now worse. My hammer spring seems plenty strong, but I'm considering trying to locate an extra power one anyway.

Today I called Ruger, and they are sending me out a set of their own nipples to try for free. They say if these don't work, it is a cap problem. They recommend #10 Remington caps. I will try those caps just to see how they work.

So has anyone else ever had reliability problems with their old army? What was the fix?

I, too, have those nipples on mine. They stated them being designed for CCI #11. And the Magnum version all too often needed a second strike so I emailed them. They’re designed for the standard non magnum CCI #11’s which aren’t easy to find. I found Rem #10’s work like a charm! I’ve only found the others online in a ten pack. I don’t want that many if I’m not happy so I just use the Rem.

[Valley-Shooter]

I had the same problem with one of my ROA's. I had bought 2 of them brand new at the same time when they were still making them.
One of them wouldn't fire caps all the time. Tried Tesco nipples, still no go. This went in for years. I bought Super Blackhawk, changed out the mainspring to a lighter one. So I had this factory mainspring assembly sitting around collecting dust .
I tried it in my ROA, it fixed it. It had a weak mainspring in it from the factory.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[megasupermagnum]

With hammer down on nipple hammer should pinch a 0.002" shim, but not contact nipple when shim is removed. If hammer face or nipples show peening either hammer or nipples are incorrect. Common problem is not adequately cleaning nipple seats and failing to bottom nipples in sockets, so that they stand proud due to fouling.

You may be on to something here. Not only is my hammer not touching the nipple, there is a sizable gap .010" or .020". I see no way to measure it. I guess ill see if I can get those slix shot nipples, and see if they are taller. On the caps that do not go off, the dent looks even and centered, but not very deep. Sometimes a second strike will set it off.

Mine is plenty accurate with a ball from my Lee mold. No problem there... If it goes off.

[megasupermagnum]

I've got an idea. Tomorrow I'll try it with the nipples turned out half a turn, or whatever it takes to have the hammer touch the nipples. If that fixes it, then short nipples are my problem.

[Martin Luber]

Hi, ls it possible that your cylinder is sliding forward such that the hammer blow is damped? Keep nd of like end shake in a revolver cylinder. Just a thought.

[megasupermagnum]

Hi, ls it possible that your cylinder is sliding forward such that the hammer blow is damped? Keep nd of like end shake in a revolver cylinder. Just a thought.

Nope, cylinder has minimal end shake.

[Battis]

ROAs can be dry fired, which means that the hammer should not touch the nipples.

[Chill Wills]

I got a good Stainless ROA in the seventies and did not shoot it enough to think I should keep it. Cartridge handguns were so very satisfying. Regret! Double regret on the low price I gave it away for!

A few years ago a used blue ROA (pre-warning also) came up for sale. The price was more than fair and I got it.
It has original nipples per the first owner. He never shot it much either...
One can not be removed. He striped the flats off with the Ruger wrench.

CC#11 caps are loose and even pinched sometimes fall off.
Number 10's are a nice tight fit but at least two out of every cylinder full fail to fire on the first hit. Yup- likely not seating all the way - not hard contact.
I think this thread confirms that for me.

The CCI #11, when they stay on, fire first time, every time.

I was thinking I need to build some kind of crimper to keep the #11 from falling off.

[rking22]

Just pinch the base of the 11s between your fingers, making them somewhat oval. No machinery needed. Mine is the same, 10s work when I make sure to really seat them with a capper, 11s need a bit of pinch.
Note Outpost’s post, hammers could hold a .002 shim between nipple and hammer face, no contact. .010 is 5 times too much clearance.

[megasupermagnum]

I got a good Stainless ROA in the seventies and did not shoot it enough to think I should keep it. Cartridge handguns were so very satisfying. Regret! Double regret on the low price I gave it away for!

A few years ago a used blue ROA (pre-warning also) came up for sale. The price was more than fair and I got it.
It has original nipples per the first owner. He never shot it much either...
One can not be removed. He striped the flats off with the Ruger wrench.

CC#11 caps are loose and even pinched sometimes fall off.
Number 10's are a nice tight fit but at least two out of every cylinder full fail to fire on the first hit. Yup- likely not seating all the way - not hard contact.
I think this thread confirms that for me.

The CCI #11, when they stay on, fire first time, every time.

I was thinking I need to build some kind of crimper to keep the #11 from falling off.

In my case, the TOTW nipples are made specifically for CCI caps (magnums are no different, just extra bang). CCI caps slip on nicely, and stay on. Outside of this particular revolver, I've never had a CCI cap fail. I originally thought as you do that my caps were not seating fully. That was not the case. If yours are tight, the nipples chuck nicely in a drill, then a quick filing followed by a stone or fine sandpaper can take a few .001" off. On my own, I kept going until the CCI caps fall off, as yours do. In my case, that did not help.

I really hope that all I need is longer nipples. We will see tomorrow.

[Outpost75]

At the factory they used a set of automotive feeler gages which were ground and stoned to have a 0.1" wide by 0.2" long protruding tab.

[rodwha]

CCI’s standard #11 is not the same as their magnum version. I’ll see if I can find the chart on dimensions for caps. Not the same at all...

If you can find CCI’s standard #11 or the more common Rem #10 you should do fine assuming the filing didn’t jack stuff up too much.

[winelover]

I use Remington #10 with my ROA and factory nipples. Found out right away the firearm didn't like the CCI #11's. The problem I had with my SS ROA was that if you drew back the hammer, to full cock, and then walked it back down (decided not to fire) it would bind up. Only solution was to remove the cylinder, then reinstall. I contacted Ruger and they blew me off...........never got an answer. This was before I even loaded or ever fired the NIB gun.

Winelover

[megasupermagnum]

CCI’s standard #11 is not the same as their magnum version. I’ll see if I can find the chart on dimensions for caps. Not the same at all...

If you can find CCI’s standard #11 or the more common Rem #10 you should do fine assuming the filing didn’t jack stuff up too much.

More common? I've never once seen a Remington #10 in a store. I found a store about 70 miles away that has them, and luckily I'll be heading that way tomorrow. Everything I've ever seen with muzzleloaders has been built around the CCI #11 cap. You can buy those in any store, all nipples I've seen were sized for them. I would not feel too good about a gun that will only use a special cap, but I can live with it if they work.

So today I tried firing with the nipples a half turn out, no difference at all. On closer inspection, the hammer is pretty close to the nipple (with them fully seated). I cut and bent a feeler gauge to fit, but I still don't feel too great about the measurement due to the recess the nipple is in. It does seem like there is minimal gap between the hammer and nipple. I bought some standard CCI #11 caps, and both those and the magnums measure the same for me. Both are about .177" OD and .166" long. The standards were no better than magnums. I have noticed that more often than not, a second hit will set them off. Again, I've filed my nipples down such that the caps practically fall onto them, the are fully seated.

The only other thing I can think of is hammer spring. I added washers to pre-load the spring about 1/4", which is all I could get on and still get the the thing back together. The hammer is significantly tougher to pull back with this, clearly this is more spring tension than intended. But it did set off 5 out of 6, which is the best I've got so far. I swapped out to the other set of nipples, and again got 5 out of 6. So the spring definitely helped, but it is such overkill, and still not reliable.

Any other ideas? All I have left is to try the nipples Ruger is sending me, and try Remington #10 caps.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

One place to try for #10 rem caps is...
Ammocraft & Gobbler Specialties in Hopkins MN.
I know they'll carried them in the past, but I haven't been to that store in a year or so.

[rodwha]

Rem #10’s seem to be about as common as the CCI #11 magnums from what little shopping around I’ve done, both in store and online.

The CCI #11 and magnum version may be the same on the outside but the inside dimensions are different. I forgot to look for the chart people have posted on this. It has interior dimensions as well. I’ll look now.

[rodwha]

Can’t seem to find a chart by searching Google for the magnum version. In essence, because it has more priming compound, it’s not as deep.

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02nCdbGJN8L8yuBtRHMXPsuvrjpaA:15 89068242419&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=percussion+cap+size.chart&hl=en-us&client=safari&fir=J2e-Wad9obOe8M%253A%252CX_9qbDa-hoyEoM%252C_%253BWFBqwMseHTfluM%253A%252CeA8mkJvgZ zejSM%252C_%253BYGXKtwOR_yVXZM%253A%252CLxKt671x-HbG_M%252C_%253BPObKjYo_aRYUQM%253A%252CeA8mkJvgZz ejSM%252C_%253BsHdo-4GKwHOYdM%253A%252CkLaJ_yQRqMWUnM%252C_%253BAY2Ubq CbOyQPXM%253A%252CoYd85mQtFNSsmM%252C_%253BY2QHAeI R3vdZgM%253A%252CeA8mkJvgZzejSM%252C_%253BaCZAKfZx eZSm6M%253A%252CfoQntZN5vL939M%252C_&usg=AI4_-kQfoP5scmmNC8yMhhl8sDTaXY2G6A&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwitufPA_KfpAhVRb60KHV5-BTAQ7Al6BAgBEBg&biw=667&bih=375#imgrc=J2e-Wad9obOe8M

[Woodnbow]

http://guntoters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Percussion-Caps-and-Nipples2.pdf

The most complete tutorial on “Nipples, everything you always wanted to know but were afraid to ask.”

[Markopolo]

i was reading excerpts from this thread to my wife.. had a great laff... then I got her one of my C&B pistol's and showed her what a nipple is..

may your nipples be longer...:veryconfu

[megasupermagnum]

i was reading excerpts from this thread to my wife.. had a great laff... then I got her one of my C&B pistol's and showed her what a nipple is..

may your nipples be longer...:veryconfu

Ha, I sure wouldn't want to be heard talking about blackpowder guns out of context, especially flintlock. :smile:

I'm still waiting for the Ruger nipples, they should be here by the end of the week. I never did get those Remington #10 caps, but I'll be sure to try them at some point. I did get to talk to another ROA owner who claimed to have had his even worse. He said he was lucky to get even one cap to go off. He claims going to Ampco nipples 100% solved his problem. I'm going to buy both the Ampco and Slix shot nipples if the Ruger's don't pan out.

[Woodnbow]

The reason you’re needing to take the cylinder out of the gun is that the hammer has to go completely to battery in order to catch the bolt and release the cylinder. The cause is the caps don’t fit and are sitting high on the nipples.

[megasupermagnum]

The reason you’re needing to take the cylinder out of the gun is that the hammer has to go completely to battery in order to catch the bolt and release the cylinder. The cause is the caps don’t fit and are sitting high on the nipples.

Huh? Other than cleaning, I never took the cylinder out of mine.

[Bent Ramrod]

I can’t imagine this happening with a Ruger, but some of the cheaper Italian clones (the leftovers that are rejected by the name-brand importers and are sold for cheep by the No-Name-os) sometimes have a poor hammer fit against the rear of the frame in the hammer slot. The curved hammer web hits the curve in the back of the frame before the striking surface fully contacts the percussion cap. A second trip around the circuit hits another light strike and (maybe) sets it off.

Kind of the ignition analogue to the barrel that points upward when wedged onto the mandrel, another hallmark of the off-brand el cheapos.

The solution for the cheapies is judicious filing or grinding on the inner curve of the hammer web so the business end comes down closer to the nipple when the hammer is fully down. Or similar grinding on the protruding end of the mandrel or the set screw that sticks too far out of the rear of frame, if that is the issue. I guess the hammer could be heated, bent forward a little, and rehardened, if no grinding or filing is wanted.

Since it’s a Ruger, I’d send it in to the factory and let them handle it. Maybe a replacement hammer would do it, or the present hammer refitted.

[megasupermagnum]

As far as i can tell, the hammer does come within .003" of the nipple face. I even backed out my nipples so they protruded farther, with no change. The hammer hits the caps perfectly centered, and looks perfectly square. I called Ruger, and first they are sending me a new set of nipples, and recommend Remington #10 caps. I am going to try that first. If that doesn't work, I'll try the nipples other's recommend, Ampco and Slix shot. If that still doesn't work, I will ask that Ruger looks at it.

[megasupermagnum]

As I was typing that, the package from Ruger arrived. I put them in, and found that they are certainly small. CCI caps fall right off them. I pinched them slightly, and tried it. Unfortunately only 2 went off the first time, I retried, and only got 3 the second time. So it seems CCI caps are out of the question at this point. These nipples are slightly different than the other two sets. They are smaller, and more blunt. The TOTW nipples fit the best, and had a very sharp edge the cap sat on. The third unknown set was somewhere between in size, and flat faced. All three sets are equally poor with both CCI #11 and CCI #11 magnum caps.

Next is to try Remington caps.

[Woodnbow]

Responding to another poster.

[gunther]

To add to the confusion:
Got my stainless Old Army new in 1981 (By the serial number). A short while later, 2500 Remington #11 caps came my way. Had to pinch them to keep them on the nipples, but they have always gone off. RWS #1075 ,CCI#10 and recent Remington #11 caps are not nearly as reliable. They fit much more tightly, takes two strikes to get them to go off. All this on unaltered Ruger nipples.

[cas]

Blackhawk hammer spring is 17-18 lbs? (something like that) Old Army should be 19-20-21lbs? (somewhere in there, too much mush in my brain to remember things anymore)

[waksupi]

To add to the confusion:
Got my stainless Old Army new in 1981 (By the serial number). A short while later, 2500 Remington #11 caps came my way. Had to pinch them to keep them on the nipples, but they have always gone off. RWS #1075 ,CCI#10 and recent Remington #11 caps are not nearly as reliable. They fit much more tightly, takes two strikes to get them to go off. All this on unaltered Ruger nipples.

Try a different cap brand, or take out the nipples, chuck them in a drill, and sand them down until you have a good fit.

[arcticap]

I read that you backed some of the nipples out 1/2 turn without a better result.
Another trick is to make a nipple shim using a thin piece of flattened wire.
Get a piece of wire from an old electronic unit, and wrap it around the threaded nipple base once to form a ring.
Cut it to size and then hammer it down flat, put it on the base and tighten.
Use two shims, or wrap the wire around the nipple base twice until you raise the nipple cone high enough to make contact with the hammer face.
It might work with the Ruger nipples, even if only needed for the nipple[s] that won't go off.
You may need to find the right piece of wire.
Keep the plastic sheath on the wire if it helps due to using really thin wire.
If using thicker wire, then strip the plastic sheath off.
Keep experimenting.
Another idea would be to thicken the main spring using a small section of another mainspring or similar spring steel.
File and shape it to fit, and attach it to the original mainspring by wrapping it with wire in a few places along its length.
It only needs to be long enough to beef up part of the bend in the mainspring where it loads when the hammer is cocked.
The metal may only need to be 1 - 3 inches.
There are other ways to shim mainsprings by jamming a piece of leather, between the main spring and the frame.
Or use a small piece of wood that's shaped like a wedge.
Whether it's the nipple height or strength of the main spring, both or other issue, it doesn't sound like your gun is off by very much.
You're getting there.

[megasupermagnum]

I read that you backed some of the nipples out 1/2 turn without a better result.
Another trick is to make a nipple shim using a thin piece of flattened wire.
Get a piece of wire from an old electronic unit, and wrap it around the threaded nipple base once to form a ring.
Then hammer it down flat, put it on the base and tighten.
Use two shims, or wrapped the wire around the nipple base twice until you raise the nipple cone high enough to make contact with the hammer face.
It might work with the Ruger nipples, even if only needed for the nipple[s] that won't go off.
You may need to find the right piece of wire.
Keep the plastic sheath on the wire if it helps due to using really thin wire.
If using thicker wire, then strip the plastic sheath off.
Keep experimenting.
Another idea would be to thicken the main spring using a small section of another mainspring or similar spring steel.
File and shape it to fit, and attach it to the original mainspring by wrapping it with wire in a few places along its length.
It only needs to be long enough to beef up part of the bend in the mainspring where it loads when the hammer is cocked.
The metal may only need to be 1 - 3 inches.
There are other ways to shim mainsprings by jamming a piece of leather, between the main spring and the frame.
Or use a small piece of wood that's shaped like a wedge.
Whether it's the nipple height or strength of the main spring, both or other issue, it doesn't sound like your gun is off by very much.
You're getting there.

After trying 4 sets of nipples, including backing them to increase their length, I don't see how a shim could have anything to offer.

I have tried to strengthen the mainspring. I was able to stuff over 1/4" worth of washers, which substantially increased the spring. It took some force to pull that hammer back. This actually did help somewhat, although still only about 4 out of 6 go off.

The problem is not the nipples, the problem is not the hammer spring.

At this point I have lost all faith in the gun. At some point I'll try Remington caps, and if that doesn't work, it will be a 50/50 if I send it to Ruger or just send it off to the next guy.

At least I know now why the price was so low.

[rking22]

Just a thought, but does the hammer show any sign of dragging on the frame? Could be some interference that is slowing the hammer strike. Perhaps the mainspring strut even?? Try cocking, then slowly lower the hammer paying particular attention to any change in the feel, a bump or lessening of the force required to hold it from falling free. Do it very slowly.
A question, if you mark the chambers, 1 thru 6, does the misfire repeat on a particular group of chambers? This has become and interesting issue, but then it ain’t my gun :)

[megasupermagnum]

No, the hammer seems free and smooth as any revolver I have. I have tried marking the chambers. There is no correlation, the problem is entirely random. The ones that do not go off have a perfect hammer shaped dent right in the perfect center of them. It is not hitting to the side, or too high or low. It is not hitting off square. It is hitting the caps perfectly centered and squared on every cylinder.

I've never owned another CB revolver, but I can put these caps on any other gun of mine, and they will go off every time. Last year I fired something like 600 of these caps, and not a single failure.

It is baffling. The only thing I can think of is that most guns have a hammer that is larger than the cap. They hit the entire surface. On this ROA, the hammer face is rectangular, maybe half the width of a cap. On the caps that do not fire, if I pull them off and look at them, I see that the priming compound is buckled.

[rking22]

I believe my hammer nose covers the whole cap, but relying on memory. Can you measure width of yours? I will try to get my gun out and check when I get home. That could be the issue, the hammer is common component to all the nipples you have tried.

[rking22]

My hammer nose is .155 wide wher it contacts the cap and shows a witness mark from where the caps are.

[megasupermagnum]

Holy Smokes, big development!

Since it is still covered in soot from previous failures, I was able to see something I never would have clean. If you look close at the first picture, the left side of the hammer face is rounded off. The second picture is more telling, the hammer face is clearly impacting the frame. You can't feel this at all when manipulating the hammer normally by hand, but you can see it hits when fired.

This has to be it, nothing else makes sense. I have some left over trigger shims from my other Ruger's. I'll try and shim the hammer to the right, and try it in the morning. The hammer face is about .150" wide. :drinks:


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[arcticap]

"Based on a test using a 2 kilogram weight (4.40924524 lbs.), the impact sensitivity of lead styphnate is 3 inches."

If enough force contacts the cap and it's well seated, it will go off.
FWIW my mention about beefing up the main spring is called piggy backing.
Perhaps depending on where the additional load is placed on the main spring, it will affect the resulting characteristic differently compared to shimming with washers.

The caps have a length as well as a diameter.
A cap can fit loose in diameter, but still be too tall so that the nipple taper prevents it from being seated all of the way down on the cap.
That's why some folks use a push stick to seat the caps.
And also why some cap brands work better than others.
Even magnum caps have more primer material inside the cap which can affect how well it seats on the nipple and whether the impact is cushioned or not.
Maybe if a cap fits loose, it can come up and off being seated on the nipple as each shot is fired.
Whereas a snug fitting #10 cap won't do that and will stay in place.
But then staying in place may result in too much clearance.

And that may also correlate to why the Slix Shot or Ampco nipples may work better.
If the cone is taller then that may effectively raise the caps increasing the hammer impact, and the caps may also seat better if the cones are taller by even a small amount.

There's still a chance that the cylinder is not remaining static when the hammer falls, or that there is slight interference with the hammer in the slot or both, in addition to the clearance related issues.

To be honest, .003 clearance seems a little bit excessive if it's an accurate measurement.
You may need to try different nipples, in addition to either shimming both the nipples and mainspring.
And maybe even try to slick up the hammer fall with a lubricant such as graphite or a compatible oil.

There may even be a way to modify how far the hammer can fall forward as someone else previously mentioned if the frame or hammer design interferes with or limits how far that it can fall.
That could be fairly simple.
It's a project to not give up on if you bought the gun at a good deal.
If Ruger will look at it then that's always a possibility.
But I know someone who had a defective ROA and Ruger offered him any current model as a replacement rather than fixing it since they didn't have the replacement parts needed.

I hope that #10 caps or #10 Remingtons are the simple solution.

[megasupermagnum]

Upon closer inspection, the hammer is way off. There is quite a bit of slop on the hammer to frame groove, but I'm not certain shims alone will fix this.

This is going to sound bizarre, but I took the gun apart so I could watch everything in motion. With the hammer pushed all the way to the right against the frame, the hammer nose hits the left side as it enters the slot, as bad or worse than with everything assembled. Then with the hammer pushed all the way to the left, the hammer nose seems to enter the slot perfectly straight, and only with the slightest resistance.

So we have two strange things going on. One, there is more slop around the hammer than I'm used to on Ruger. This one accepts a .015" feeler gauge. The other is that something on the right side is out of square, either the hammer or unfortunately likely the frame itself. If the hammer was off or bent, then pushing it to the left side of the frame should make the problem worse. In fact pushing to the left allows the hammer straight.

I've tried a few comb's of shims with no real success. Even with all shims on the right side, it seems to force the hammer off square. I think what I'll do is call Ruger and see if they will look at it. If all else fails, I'm thinking one option might be to mill off the hammer on the left side. Not the body, just the nose of the hammer that fits in the slot. Unfortunately it appears that I would likely have to take off as much as .025" or so.

At least I know what the problem is now. Now I just need to fix it.

[megasupermagnum]

"Based on a test using a 2 kilogram weight (4.40924524 lbs.), the impact sensitivity of lead styphnate is 3 inches."

If enough force contacts the cap and it's well seated, it will go off.
FWIW my mention about beefing up the main spring is called piggy backing.
Perhaps depending on where the additional load is placed on the main spring, it will affect the resulting characteristic differently compared to shimming with washers.

The caps have a length as well as a diameter.
A cap can fit loose in diameter, but still be too tall so that the nipple taper prevents it from being seated all of the way down on the cap.
That's why some folks use a push stick to seat the caps.
And also why some cap brands work better than others.
Even magnum caps have more primer material inside the cap which can affect how well it seats on the nipple and whether the impact is cushioned or not.
Maybe if a cap fits loose, it can come up and off being seated on the nipple as each shot is fired.
Whereas a snug fitting #10 cap won't do that and will stay in place.
But then staying in place may result in too much clearance.

And that may also correlate to why the Slix Shot or Ampco nipples may work better.
If the cone is taller then that may effectively raise the caps increasing the hammer impact, and the caps may also seat better if the cones are taller by even a small amount.

There's still a chance that the cylinder is not remaining static when the hammer falls, or that there is slight interference with the hammer in the slot or both, in addition to the clearance related issues.

To be honest, .003 clearance seems a little bit excessive if it's an accurate measurement.
You may need to try different nipples, in addition to either shimming both the nipples and mainspring.
And maybe even try to slick up the hammer fall with a lubricant such as graphite or a compatible oil.

There may even be a way to modify how far the hammer can fall forward as someone else previously mentioned if the frame or hammer design interferes with or limits how far that it can fall.
That could be fairly simple.
It's a project to not give up on if you bought the gun at a good deal.
If Ruger will look at it then that's always a possibility.
But I know someone who had a defective ROA and Ruger offered him any current model as a replacement rather than fixing it since they didn't have the replacement parts needed.

I hope that #10 caps or #10 Remingtons are the simple solution.

Hey, if Ruger offers me a deal on a new gun, I'll take it (I've been eyeing that 45 colt/45 acp convertible) then buy another non-problem old army.

[megasupermagnum]

So the hammer is straight, minimal light comes by when held on a true flat surface. When mounted in the gun, a .015" feeler gauge passes between the frame and hammer above the pivot screw. However, a .022", which is the largest I had without going to the garage easily slides in below the pivot screw. So unless this is intentional, the frame is far out of square.

[arcticap]

You posted your photos while I was typing and editing for a long time.
I'm glad that you made some progress.

[rking22]

Good progress, narrowed down to a few components. Try backing the pivot screw out 1/2 turn and see if there is a change, perhaps only a bad screw.. Also look at the main spring strut interface with the slot in the hammer. My hammer is rather loose, when not in a sear notch. Actually pivots a bit, like the pivot pin has lots of clearance. The coil mainspring strut has a “right side up” is it correct? The ball on the strut end may have a burr, that would change direction as the rammer rotates. Last, if I see correctly the radiused part of the hammer is catching on the frame, slightly break the corners on the hammer so that it can slide across that contact rather than catching. Not really a radius but removing the sharp 90 deg corner with a round stone or 600 paper glued to a dowell. Doesn’t “fix” the misalignment but could eliminate enough drag to make it reliable.

[rking22]

262948
If the contact is the hammer nose, note the slight 45 deg chamfer on the sides of my hammer. This gun has been 100% reliable.

[rking22]

262948
If the contact is the hammer nose, note the slight 45 deg chamfer on the sides of my hammer. This gun has been 100% reliable. Looking closer at your first picture I think I see what you have. Mine will make contact there if I push the hammer left. Here is a picture of that face on mine, it seems to have a slightly broken edge as does the hammer. If you remove that displaced metal and break the edge with a needle file you may fine joy.
262950

[arcticap]

Hey, if Ruger offers me a deal on a new gun, I'll take it (I've been eyeing that 45 colt/45 acp convertible) then buy another non-problem old army.

I would send it to Ruger before making any permanent modifications.
Especially if you don't want to jeopardize any chance of being offered a new replacement gun.
There's 3 possibilities.
1. They could fix it.
2. They claim to fix it, but send it back without it actually being fixed and 100% reliable.
3. They admit that they can't or won't fix it and offer you a new gun.

How it pans out could be up to the repair technician, if it needs parts, and whether he thinks that he can fix it or not.
The problems need to be outlined in a letter for the repair dept. and technician to read.
I don't know if they will send you a shipping label or not, but you can call and ask for one.
But I would tell them that the gun is in relatively new condition and has always had reliability issues due to factory defects.

[megasupermagnum]

Great news! I was slow to send it to Ruger, but it was there and back in 2 weeks. I got a note back with it that says all they did was replace the hammer, and test it with Remington #11 caps. The first thing I noticed is that the hammer has much less slop, like every other Ruger I have, and most importantly, it doesn't seem to hit the frame at all anymore.

This made all the difference in the world. Using my CCI #11 magnum caps, all 6 went off on the Ruger nipples, and I repeated it a second time. I swapped in the TOTW nipples, and shot 18 in a row without a hiccup. I can finally do some real shooting with this. Thanks Ruger, this is why all but one of my revolvers are Ruger's.

[rking22]

Excellent! Glad they fixed you up, I was under the impression they no longer had parts. Glad that is not the case. They are very good shooters, if a bit on the heavy side for carry.

[megasupermagnum]

They flat out told me, they don't have much for parts for these, but I can send it in for a look. Apparently I got lucky. The only question I have, is how many parts could there be specific to the Old Army? I'm guessing most of the trigger parts are the same as any other old model Blackhawk, except for the hammer. The sights should be the same. Other than that, it's just a frame and cylinder, which do not fail. Maybe the loading lever parts break?

No matter, they fixed mine.

[Ozark mike]

I imagine the spring would be heavier for smashing the caps vs a small diameter firing pin poking primers

[rking22]

I suspect lots of the small parts may be common. Seemed you needed a hammer and that is definitely different! Glad you got it back running, blackhawks are dime a dozen unlike ROAs! Get the Blackhawk, next year :)

[stubshaft]

I replaced the nipples in all of my ROA's with SlixShot nipples. They are and have always been reliable and accurate, I can honestly say that I have never had an issue with an ROA.

[Theditchman]

I had the same problems with CC! magnums...it took two strikes to set them off..I went back to Remingtons and never had that problem again...I tried the CCI magnums in a Thompson Hawken rifle just to use them up and still had the same problem

[megasupermagnum]

I had the same problems with CC! magnums...it took two strikes to set them off..I went back to Remingtons and never had that problem again...I tried the CCI magnums in a Thompson Hawken rifle just to use them up and still had the same problem

You may want to read the thread, the caps were not the problem.

I've been shooting the CCI #11 magnums for 2 or 3 years, and shot standard CCI #11's before that. Last year I went through about 500-600 caps between my TC renegade, TC new Englander, and TC scout pistol, including firing below zero. This year, in addition to those, I also used a CVA mountain rifle, and a Pedersoli 10 gauge SXS. The pedersoli accounting for 200-300 caps itself.

Not ONCE, and I mean it, did I ever have a cap not fire. When I pulled the trigger, it went bang 100% of the time no matter the conditions.

The problem was the hammer of this ROA, and after replacement, it seems fine. It sets off the same CCI caps now.

[arcticap]

I'm glad that Ruger took care of it.
They did produce the last several hundred ROA's a few years or so ago, so maybe that's when they produced some of the spare parts.
You lucked out, and it's worth it to not have to worry about fixing it yourself.
Especially once you realized what was wrong with it.