Question about the draft.

[SciFiJim]

I was born in 1963, so the draft ended before I turned 18. My question is, if you received your draft notice, could you then immediately enlist in a different branch to avoid the army, or did you have to enlist before you received your draft notice? I was telling my daughter about the four uncles that served in the military during the Vietnam war, only one of which was army (drafted and served the entire time INCONUS). She asked me if the others enlisted in the other branches to avoid being drafted into the army and I don't know if that was possible.

[rockrat]

I think once you received your draft notice, you were Army bound. My ex B.I.L enlisted in the Air Force one afternoon and his draft notice was in the mail when he got home. He did go into the A.F., although the Army really tried to get him.

[Scrounge]

I was born in 1963, so the draft ended before I turned 18. My question is, if you received your draft notice, could you then immediately enlist in a different branch to avoid the army, or did you have to enlist before you received your draft notice? I was telling my daughter about the four uncles that served in the military during the Vietnam war, only one of which was army (drafted and served the entire time INCONUS). She asked me if the others enlisted in the other branches to avoid being drafted into the army and I don't know if that was possible.

My number never came up, so I didn't have to worry about being drafted, but I knew several people who enlisted in the USAF before I did who did so because they had gotten their draft notices for the Army. It may have depended on where you were. Small town or large, for example. I spent some time in a small town in Western Colorado, and everyone knew everyone else's business, there. Including who'd gotten their draft notices. Moved from there back to a suburb of Los Angeles. Nobody knew anyone else, unless you'd been there for decades.

[Winger Ed.]

The draft ended in Jan. 1973.
a few years before that, there was a lottery. Your ticket was your birthday. They drew 365 'tickets' every year.
According to the needs of the military, they'd start calling up lottery dates.
If yours was after say--- #100, you were pretty safe and wouldn't be called up.
A number below that--- it was a good idea to go talk to a recruiter.

If you were called up, it was for 2 years.
You weren't going to be in long enough for the govt. to invest much in your training,
so that usually put you in the Army, carrying a rifle.

Before you were called up, you could go see a recruiter, and enlist for 3 or 4 years.
That gave you a choice of which branch you went into, and some options on which schools you would be sent to.
Trying to make a better deal when you were at the AFES station, was doable, but got a little more complicated.

Other options going through the recruiters was to get a college deferment until you quit or graduated,
and- they were also at the beginning of the path that led to going into the Reserves for 6 years.


A buddy's older brother had a draft number of #3 in '70-71.
He got a deferment until he graduated college, then was a Navigator/Bombadier on USAF B-52s for 6 years.

I hated driving in downtown Dallas.
In March of '73, I turned 18, and my recruiter drove me downtown to be sworn in on a delayed enlistement program.
I shipped out in June, buy my pay entry base date was in March.
It counted toward 'time served' when pay raises came along.
When I got out, my time added up to 7 yrs. 10 months instead of the real 7 1/2 years I actually served.

After I was sworn in, we went across the street and I registered for the draft.

[Outpost75]

Big difference today is that if they reinstate the draft, women will be probably required to register as well.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/02/26/no-women-dont-have-sign-draft-yet-heres-whats-next.html

After the Defense Department abolished all restrictions on women serving in combat positions in 2013, several plaintiffs, including the National Coalition for Men (NCFM), subsequently filed lawsuits challenging the "men-only" requirement of Selective Service. In 2016, Congress created the blue-ribbon panel to study the issue.

On Monday, Harry Crouch, president of the NCFM, called Miller's decision "momentous" and said it is likely to place pressure on the commission and elected representatives to consider changing the system...

In a statement on its Facebook page, the Selective Service System said no change to the process can occur without new legislation. The system "does not make policy and follows laws as written. As such, until Congress modifies the Military Selective Service Act or a court orders Selective Service to change our standing operation, the following remains in effect," referring to the requirement that men ages 18-25 register, while women are not [yet] required to do so.

Defense Department officials have told Congress they support preserving the Selective Service System and welcome the inclusion of women. In a report to Congress in 2017, they argued that a future draft likely would focus on highly technical skills that are in short supply in general and, accordingly, "targeting a draft to only 50 percent of the available population would severely limit" the department's capabilities in a national emergency.

Regarding Miller's ruling, Air Force Lt. Col. Carla Gleason, a Pentagon spokeswoman, referred request for comment on the case to the Justice Department. She added, however, that the Defense Department "needs and appreciates every qualified patriot who is willing and able to serve..."

"We have looked at a range of options regarding Selective Service since we began. ... What, if any, modifications are necessary to better reflect the needs of a 21st-century Department of Defense, to include whether women should register; should the registration be more skills-based; should there be periodic re-registration or updates. These are the questions we have been considering."

If the Justice Department appeals Miller's ruling, the case would be considered in the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Heck said the commission's final report is expected in March 2020, and it will then be up to Congress to decide whether to implement the group's recommendations, which could include requiring all 18-year-olds to register, eliminating the system entirely or introducing volunteer registration.

A representative for the Service Women's Action Network, an advocacy group for female troops and veterans, said the organization believes the entire system should be abolished. But, added retired Navy Capt. Lory Manning, a SWAN spokeswoman, the group supports Miller's ruling as long as the Selective Service continues to exist.

"It's about time women register for Selective Service too," she said.

-- Patricia Kime can be reached at Patricia.Kime@Military.com.

[swamp]

I was drafted in 71. At the end of induction they went down the line telling us what branch we would be in. I believe it all depended on who needed bodies. I volunteered for EOD (ARMY) and was accepted.
swamp

[LynC2]

I was drafted in '66. I passed my physical and battery tests and had planned to go. My family gave me so much grief saying I would be going to Viet Nam that I finally gave in and enlisted in the Navy. I wound up in Nam in '69-70 anyway. Murphy was active then too

[Winger Ed.]

At the end of induction they went down the line telling us what branch we would be in. I believe it all depended on who needed bodies. I volunteered for EOD (ARMY) and was accepted.

An old friend told a story of his uncle being drafted in WWII.
Back then, if you had a useable skill- that's probably what you were going to be doing in the military.
If you were a cook- that's what you'd be doing. In construction? You were probably going to be a SeaBee, etc.

His uncle was behind a guy that looked like a gorilla. Hair coming out every where, and looked meaner than a snake.

The Navy Petty Officer at the desk asked him what he did in civilian life.
He said he was a mandrel king. "What the heck is that"?

He said he worked in the circus, and was in charge of the monkeys and apes.
Among his duties was when they would stop performing, and 'entertain' themselves,
he'd go in the cage and beat them with a night stick.
(In a 'cage match' like that, even one mad chimpanzee has about a 95% chance of killing you)

The Navy PO looked at him, erased the check mark in the box for "USN" on the induction form,
and checked the box labeled "USMC", and told him, "Go get in that line over there".


Something else about being drafted in WWII- it was an open ended contract.
You were drafted 'for the duration of the war'.

[SciFiJim]

I was drafted in '66. I passed my physical and battery tests and had planned to go. My family gave me so much grief saying I would be going to Viet Nam that I finally gave in and enlisted in the Navy. I wound up in Nam in '69-70 anyway. Murphy was active then too I had two uncles in the Navy at time. One was on a gun boat in the Mekong delta and one was on the Forrestal when it had its' big fire. The Navy wasn't much safer than being in the Army.

[LynC2]

I had two uncles in the Navy at time. One was on a gun boat in the Mekong delta and one was on the Forrestal when it had its' big fire. The Navy wasn't much safer than being in the Army.
The "Brown Water Navy" was about the most dangerous place in Nam. About 75 percent had at least one purple heart. I only had to put up with being shelled and sapers.

[JWFilips]

Still carry my draft card from 1971

[CastingFool]

My number was 32, so I decided to enlist, since then I would have a choice on my military job. Tried the AF recruiter, didn't go well due to some procedural requirement that would take too long, so I spoke with the Army recruiter. That worked out better, so I went Army, and I'm glad I did. In fact, I did my 3 yrs active, joined the Natl Guard and 8 yrs later I transferred to the Air National Guard, and retired 14 yrs later.

[slim1836]

Still carry my draft card from 1971

I still Carry mine with the random sequence number of 001.
Just my kind of luck.

Slim

[Winger Ed.]

I still Carry mine with the random sequence number of 001.
Just my kind of luck.

Look on the bright side--
If it wasn't for bad luck, ya might not have any luck at all.:bigsmyl2:

[Scrounge]

I still Carry mine with the random sequence number of 001.
Just my kind of luck.

Slim

With that kind of luck, you need to find a poker game and see if you have any luck left!

[Iowa Fox]

Some where between Thanksgiving and Christmas of 1966 I went in and volunteered for the draft, I was 18 years old. If I remember correctly it was somewhat difficult to get into the Navy or Air Force as a lot of guys were afraid of getting drafted and becoming a rifleman in you know where, so they were joining other branches of the military. If my memory is correct a few did join other branches of the military after receiving a draft notice, but not many. I just figured what the hay and took my chances with the draft. I got lucky and was a 95B. I feel for the 11B's, lot of the guys are suffering from agent orange in their old age now. The chemical companies knew damn good and well the long term effects of that stuff.

[rockshooter]

Back around 1972 I got a letter from my draft board to the effect that I hadn't kept them advised of my address. I advised them that I had already served 4 years active duty and 2 years reserve and that I lived 83 miles from the Canadian border. Working for Uncle Sam had not improved my attitude!
Loren

[samari46]

Graduated high school in '64 and enlisted while I was 17 and dad had to sign the enlistment papers. Spent 3 and a half years at sea. So in my case I never registered for the draft. Went down to the local draft board after I got out to register and handed the lady my DD-214N. Told her enlisted when I was 17. Got a draft card with the classification of 4A if I remember right. Still have all my cards. Draft card Geneva convention card,I.D. card,shell back card and my original DD-214N papers. What with the war in Vietnam heating up basically as soon as you registered you had to sweat the draft. Right out of high school,no job and of course getting drafted. Murphy was also working overtime as we did our Westpac cruise to Vietnam '66-'67. Funny thing, took the written and oral tests for MM3 & MM2 while we at sea during the cruise. Got out in Oct '67 and my buddy wrote me to tell me I made MM3 in the first increment and passed the test and oral for MM2. So basically all I needed time in rank and would sew on the MM2 patch on my uniform. And here I was two weeks home, we both got a big laugh out of that one. Navy was short handed and our engineering dept couldn't fill a full watch schedule. So for the last year or so stood 6 on and 6 off. Frank

[trapper9260]

For me I sign up for delayed entry in the navy back in 78 in the navy. Because I think 76 or 77 they where talking about being back the draft and I did not want to get caught in it if it show up. I was 17 at the time and my dad sign the paper for me to get in the navy. I was still in high school at the time. I had enough credits to get my diploma from high school for the half part of my last year in school the guidance concealer wrote a letter for the navy to let them know I had the credits to get my diploma , because the navy wanted me to finish my high school before I went active.So I got that and one week out of high school I was on active duty doing boot camp. Since I had already got sworn in the navy at age 17 when I turn 18 I did not sign out for Selective Service . And when I was at boot camp and call home when they let us my mom told me that the 4 branches call to see about get me in after the high school was done and she told the navy that you already got him he is in already . I was told also since I had since up already at 17 that I did not need to sign up for Selective Service . I never did .I did my 4 years active duty in the active navy and did the time delay entry they count that as inactive reserves and then after the 4 years I finish my inactive reserves for the time I did sing up for was 6 years to give and then later on I did 2 years active reserves. I came out of the navy as EN3 did not push for EN2 . but was working on it .

[Rich/WIS]

Registered in 68 when I turned 18 and was deferred since I was going to college. About 73 got a letter from the local draft board informing me that since I had graduated in 72 I was now classified as 1A. Called them back and told them that the were a little late, came on active duty 28 July 72 as an Infantry Officer (had an ROTC scholarship). We had a good laugh. Never got sent to VN, and when the war ended transferred to the Ordnance Corps, spent time in EOD, special Weapons and mostly conventional ammo. Retired 1 Aug 1992. Irony is my draft number IIRC was 356.

[jsizemore]

The last 3 years of the draft let you join whatever branch you wanted as long as you hadn't got your induction notice even if you had a low lottery number. You still got placed at the "government's convenience" according to the needed billets. The military was trying to fill ALL the billets that were open since the draft was coming to an end. After the draft we got a bunch of folks that were given the choice of jail or military service since Viet Nam was winding down. Even though I was in college I didn't get a deferment from my local draft board. Didn't want one anyway. It was my turn to do my part. Turned 18 in boot camp.

[Winger Ed.]

. After the draft we got a bunch of folks that were given the choice of jail or military service since Viet Nam was winding down.

We had a couple of those in Boot Camp, but I never met any assigned to the Air Wing out in the Fleet.

I'd heard that several years ago, they quit doing that.
Weapons systems have become so incredibly lethal, expensive, and complex, there wasn't room for 'problem children' any more.

[jsizemore]

I had one on my fire fighting crew that fell asleep leaning against a bulkhead while holding a fully charged 3" hose. That was the second I knew I wasn't staying in.

[daloper]

When I was 17 going on 18 in 73, My number was low. I thought about going into the Navy. That year I was given my card as 1-A and waited to see what was going on during the last years. Before I enlisted in the Navy, They stopped the draft I was change to 1-H that I think was Military Standby.

[Walks]

I was 17yrs when I enlisted in the USN. 3 days after my March birthday. My Dad signed for me and brought down my Hospital BC.
Reported in right after July 4th. Had to bring a Xerox of My H.S. Diploma.
So I never registered for the draft.
My little brother registered for the draft in Feb 1974 at the Post Office. Or so My Dad told me.
He was killed on My Motorcycle 3 months later.

2nd Brother registered in June 1965. Enlisted in the Navy in June 1966, somehow He ended up in the army. KIA Sept 1967

Oldest Brother USN Pilot, KIA in Jan 1968.

We paid enough.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Some guys volunteered for the draft so they could get the 2 years over with and get on with their lives. Much more common before Viet Nam than during.

[stevenjay1]

To answer the original OP question, I received my draft notice in June of '67, right out of high school. When I went for my physical I passed the Navy office in the same building and stopped to look at the Navy poster on the wall, I had been thinking about joining the Navy anyway. A Petty Officer 1st Class looked at me and asked if he could help me. I said it was too late and held my draft notice. To this day I have never forgotten his words and continue to use them as a life lesson. "Son, come on in, its never too late!" Four years in the Navy and 18 months off the coast of VN. All Good! Steve

[MrWolf]

Walks. Yea you did and thank you and everyone else that served. My year was the first to register for Selective Service in '78. After working with folks that were there and seeing some major issues they had I decided I wasn't ready for the military. Kinda wonder what life would have been like if I had joined but I knew I was going to college.

[samari46]

Problem children, yeah we had a few on my ship. quite a few never completed their enlistments. Usually got a discharge "for the good of the service". Attitudes and fights. Had one in our engineroom and he was always late for watches and the first to take off. Was told very bluntly to shape up or we'll ship you out. Which is what they did,when they found pot in his locker. BCD and out the door. Navy didn't want and druggies period. Frank

[Mr Peabody]

Not everyone who was drafted went into the Army. When I was at the induction center in Oakland all the draftees had to line up against the wall. Every 5th one became a Marine. I wasn't on that side of the hall.

[725]

My dad had an experience like Rich/WIS. Joined the Navy in '31. Did his time, attained the rank of Bowswains mate, and then entered civilian life. Dec. '41 came around and he went to re-enlist and wanted his old rank. The Navy recruiter denied him, but the Coast Guard recruiter, sitting at the next table, said the CG would take him on at that rank. He spent most of the war in the North Atlantic. At some point, while literally at sea, he was almost arrested for not registering for the draft. A clerical error easily rectified, but the attentions of bean counters never seem to end.

[gwpercle]

Still carry my draft card from 1971

Me Too !
It's dated Sept. 5 , 1967 and the lady who issued it to me said to carry it with you at all times , when we need you we will call you . She never called me back and said to stop carrying it ...
If they call I'm still ready to serve ...
Gary

[JoeJames]

I had to register in 1969; 2S for two years in college. Lottery drawing in 1971 —- fixing to go advanced ROTC - my number was 356. That was the end of that! But still have my card for sure —- 1H.

[MT Gianni]

When I was 17 going on 18 in 73, My number was low. I thought about going into the Navy. That year I was given my card as 1-A and waited to see what was going on during the last years. Before I enlisted in the Navy, They stopped the draft I was change to 1-H that I think was Military Standby.

I was a year ahead of you with a selection number of 320. I wasn't going anywhere. I asked an Uncle, recently returned from Nam as an AF Officer if I should consider it. His reply was classic, "You were given a gift and would be a fool to refuse it". He meant the gift was the high draft number.

[GregLaROCHE]

I never signed up for the draft. I was seventeen during Vietnam, when I enlisted. One of the best moves I’ve ever made in my life. However, I remember a lot of guys, who had been drafted and enlisted in the Navy to avoid going into the Army. Most really heated everyday life.

[super6]

Got my number in 73 all turned away.

[Freightman]

I still have mine from 1957

[dangitgriff]

I wonder if conscription would be successful in modern times, given that Congress has an 80% + disapproval rating across all Americans.

[country gent]

Around 1980 a classmate went awol from Army just after basic. They knew where he was and sent him his discharge papers in the mail ( dishonorable). I ask a recruiter once about it and he Just said we arnt here to baby sit.

The jail or military still goes on. In 2002 my wife was killed by a girl joining the reserves after graduation that year. SHe got a sweet deal thru the courts so she could still join. First words out of the prosecutors mouth were Shes joining the Army they will straighter Her out.

[Winger Ed.]

I wonder if conscription would be successful in modern times, given that Congress has an 80% + disapproval rating across all Americans.

It wouldn't be necessary.
In modern times, the need for a few million people in uniform is no longer needed.

In WWII, they'd send a hundred bombers- each with a crew of ten on a mission that can now be done
by 3-4 planes with 1 or 2 people driving each one, cruise missiles, or planes flown by kids sitting in Nevada.

A modern invasion force would have about 10% or less the number of troops as was needed in the past.

Modern warfare is now, 'run what ya brung'.
By the time new troops could be called up and trained, and new equipment built--- the war would be over.

[kenton]

Our global war on terror is something of a counterpoint to the low man power requirement of modern wars. People I talked to said that the military basically let anyone with a pulse join just to meet their staffing requirements. I think everyone in power realized reinstating the draft would be political suicide.

[Scrounge]

When I was 17 going on 18 in 73, My number was low. I thought about going into the Navy. That year I was given my card as 1-A and waited to see what was going on during the last years. Before I enlisted in the Navy, They stopped the draft I was change to 1-H that I think was Military Standby.

My number was pretty high, but I didn't know what else to do with my life, had just lost my 1st job, and was walking to my favorite bookstore in uptown Whittier with my literal last dollar in my pocket. The USAF recruiter's office had a sign in the window: $326.10/month, three hots and a cot. I went in, and the rest is history. Signed mid-September, and left for Basic Training on the 24th of October. The Yom Kippur war was starting up about then, and my mom thought they were going to give me a rifle and send me to the front lines. Had to explain that was a different country, and it didn't work that way.

[Pressman]

I got word through a friend that my draft number was coming up, and I needed to enlist. So, off to see the Army recruiter. I asked for choice of MOS, 11E10, and choice of duty station, RVN.
When my report to the processing station at Fort Des Moines came up, they lost my paper work, come back next week. Showed up the following week and still no paper work, comeback next week. 3rd time they knew who I was, quickly put me on a plane for El Paso, Tx for basic.
Graduated basic, went to Ft. Knox and found I was getting MOS 11F10, no way, I volunteered for a two week leadership course and upon completion was sent to 11E training.
Graduated with my 11E, got a two week leave and orders for Baumholder, Germany. It was OK as it was spring. But boring beyond belief. Only the 30 days at Graf was there any real experience.
9 months in I went to see the PS NCO, he let me re-enlist for change of duty station and a two rank promotion, PV2 to Spec4. That helped. 30 day leave and report to Ft. Lewis, WA for assignment to RVN.
I ended up in Pleiku with the 69th Armor. Great service, I ended up staying two years and came home with the draw down in 1970.
After ETS I joined the Iowa National Guard and retired with 27 years of service.
It was fun and the retirement benefits are more than worth any inconvenience.

[GregLaROCHE]

I signed up for $288./month. That’s a number I will always remember. Same as the date I got out.

[FISH4BUGS]

I graduated from High School at Leavenworth KS in 1966. Got a 2S deferment, went to Kansas State for one year, went back for one week the second year and dropped out. I got my draft notice before I even got back to my dorm room to pack up. :)
Blind in one eye and flat feet - got me a 1Y. "....don't call us, we'll call you if we need you"...said Uncle Sam.
What's a poor boy to do?
Go on the road with a band!
I vaguely remember those two years on the road.... :)

[owejia]

Joined Army in March of 66. Basic at Ft. Benning, Ga. Came home after basic, before going to AIT and my draft notice was waiting for me. Life changing experience for me. Some good,some bad and some ugly.

[woodbutcher]

:D Thank you all for your service.They did`nt want me.Blind in right eye.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Scrounge]

I wouldn't recommend anyone make a career of the military, but everyone who can should do one hitch. You learn a lot about yourself just making it through basic training. Had family members betting $100 I would NOT make it through Basic. That was pretty serious money in 1973. I did stay for 24 years. The retirement pay is nice, the bad knees and ringing in the ears not so much. OTH, I'd have probably had the same problems crop up if I was working as a mechanic on cars or go-kart. I worked in three different career fields in the USAF. Started as an fighter jet mechanic, wrecked the knees and had to retrain, but it wasn't bad enough to get sent home. Became a photographer, and knowing stuff about airplanes and having a pretty strong stomach helped. About 10 years in photography, then retrained again because the field was overmanned, and I wanted a change. 12 years in satellite communications. Didn't want to be promoted to E8, as I'd get a desk job, and the USAF was doing "Up or Out" so I retired at age 43. Not enough money coming in from retirement to pay all the family expenses, but it did help.

[EMC45]

I certainly didn't get drafted (joined in 1996), but I will say that I served with "military or jail" deferments. One guy was a welder in Charlie Company with me and he had actually done some time for drugs and other assorted crimes. After doing 90 days in county he got scooped up again and the judge told him Navy or 2-5 for violation. He chose Navy. Good worker, made E-5 and celebrated by smoking dope (like a dope) and got Restriction for it - 45 & 45, half months pay for 2 months, reduction in rank to E-3 (he was only frocked to E-5 so he was busted as an E-4) and kicked out on an OTH. Shame

Another guy I knew in Charlie Company was a commercial burglar, and had done time in a Fla Work Prison Camp for assault on a cop. He was a squared away dude though and was good people. He was an E-6 when I met him.

[Rapidrob]

I went to Ft.Holabird,MD to join the Army in 1969. There were 1,200 of us there that day to go into the military.I was US Army thru-n-thru being an Army Brat and being born a Ft.Mede,MD.
A Gunny Sgt in the Marine Corps walked down the very long line pointing at every one of us in line. If you looked like a "normal" teenager you went into the Army and given an olive-drab green card. If you looked like you played high School Football, you got a Red Card for the Marines ( had to have a diploma) He came to me, 6 foot tall and 135 pounds. He gave me a Blue card and laughed at me...."Navy..." he spit out. It did not matter if you had gone to a recruiter or not.
I had guys with tears in their eyes asking to trade cards with them. I knew nothing about the Navy. My Uncle Walter was a WWII SEA Bee. That was all I knew.
35 of us not deemed good enough by the Gunny SGT went to Great Lakes,Ill that cold December night. We got off of the blue buss and it was -20 outside. No heat in the barracks, made in WWII. The Heads were frozen solid. The very first Sailor I ran into was a E5 ( 2ND Class) Bosunmate. " Welcome to the World of ****" he yelled at us. We were there for 16 weeks.
I graduated Boot Camp number 1 in my company. Asked to be a Gunnermate Guns and graduated 1ST in that class out of the "Green House".
I wanted no parts of Vietnam. Many of my High School Friends did not return for their 'Nam tour.
I asked what was the farthest USA home port away for m the 'Nam. "Newport ,R.I" I was told. I also got to pick any ship I wanted. I went new construction Destroyer Escort ( DE-1078 USS Joseph Hewes) not even knowing what the heck a DE was.
Our first deployment was two tours in Vietnam. We came home late 1973.

[WRideout]

For me there was no danger of getting drafted, due to a very high lottery number. In 1972 when I was nineteen years old, I woke up one morning after a nightmare that I was a thirty-five year-old bachelor living with my parents. I went to the army recruiter who said, "Son, we can help you." I was a cold warrior. First assignment after basic and 91B medic school was at Ft Lewis Washington. The 9th Division was just filling up, and we had a lot of Viet Nam vets coming in to finish their tour. My last year on active duty was in Schwaebisch Gmuend, West Germany with a Pershing Missile battalion. I spent half of that year at the field site near Bottingen close to where the missiles were set up to launch.

That period of time came to be know as the "hollow army." Most of the people I knew either drank alcohol or used drugs, including the officers. There was no real sense of duty to country, and discipline within the ranks was poor. I didn't come to appreciate the army until years later when I joined the California Army National Guard. I did finish with twenty years of service, most of that reserve time.

Wayne

[Scrounge]

I went to Ft.Holabird,MD to join the Army in 1969. There were 1,200 of us there that day to go into the military.I was US Army thru-n-thru being an Army Brat and being born a Ft.Mede,MD.
A Gunny Sgt in the Marine Corps walked down the very long line pointing at every one of us in line. If you looked like a "normal" teenager you went into the Army and given an olive-drab green card. If you looked like you played high School Football, you got a Red Card for the Marines ( had to have a diploma) He came to me, 6 foot tall and 135 pounds. He gave me a Blue card and laughed at me...."Navy..." he spit out. It did not matter if you had gone to a recruiter or not.
I had guys with tears in their eyes asking to trade cards with them. I knew nothing about the Navy. My Uncle Walter was a WWII SEA Bee. That was all I knew.
35 of us not deemed good enough by the Gunny SGT went to Great Lakes,Ill that cold December night. We got off of the blue buss and it was -20 outside. No heat in the barracks, made in WWII. The Heads were frozen solid. The very first Sailor I ran into was a E5 ( 2ND Class) Bosunmate. " Welcome to the World of ****" he yelled at us. We were there for 16 weeks.
I graduated Boot Camp number 1 in my company. Asked to be a Gunnermate Guns and graduated 1ST in that class out of the "Green House".
I wanted no parts of Vietnam. Many of my High School Friends did not return for their 'Nam tour.
I asked what was the farthest USA home port away for m the 'Nam. "Newport ,R.I" I was told. I also got to pick any ship I wanted. I went new construction Destroyer Escort ( DE-1078 USS Joseph Hewes) not even knowing what the heck a DE was.
Our first deployment was two tours in Vietnam. We came home late 1973.


Maybe that was my mistake. I volunteered for Vietnam. Wound up in Clovis NM, at Cannon AFB, working F-111D Ardvarks. (Boer Dutch for "Earth Pig.") Rated for Mach II. Cost $12K/hour of flight time. At the time was the most expensive fighter in the inventory, and about $27M per copy. Designed for "Dive Toss" with nuclear weapons. You all know dive toss. It's what Luke Skywalker did in 1977's Star Wars. In the early 80's I saw a poster titled "Lessons Learned From Star Wars." Item one, IIRC, was "Dive Toss Will Never Work!"

Worked with a bunch of guys who'd been to Nam, and came back seriously messed up. Should have expected that, as my cousin Billy came back from Nam before I graduated, and landed under our kitchen table screaming "Incoming!" when one of my experiments cooked off in the back yard. Sat there and shook for a couple of hours. He eventually had himself committed to a sanitarium. While over there he'd shot a little kid who came running up to his squad yelling "Hey, GI! Hey GI!" He got a secondary explosion off the kid, and saved his squad and himself, but didn't know what made him shoot, and couldn't forgive himself for that.

Some of the guys I worked with after my first retraining were photographers over there, and told stories about helping interrogate prisoners while flying in a Huey, threatening to throw them out if they didn't answer the questions, and then doing it anyway once they were done with the interrogation. To this day I don't know if they were telling the truth, or blowing smoke up the ***'s butt. Considering how they talked about the Vietnamese people, I'm thinking they were seriously telling the truth. And yet I also worked with guys who brought back Vietnamese wives.

It was a decade or so before I realized how lucky I'd been.

[Winger Ed.]

interrogate prisoners while flying in a Huey, threatening to throw them out if they didn't answer the questions, and then doing it anyway once they were done with the interrogation. To this day I don't know if they were telling the truth, .

One of the things that really got the public upset and turned off about the war in Viet Nam was a full page picture in Life magazine.
It showed a N. Vietnamese soldier half way between the ground and a US helicopter in flight.

[Scrounge]

One of the things that really got the public upset and turned off about the war in Viet Nam was a full page picture in Life magazine.
It showed a N. Vietnamese soldier half way between the ground and a US helicopter in flight.

That and the photos of the young woman who'd gotten all her clothing burned off in a napalm strike, and the execution of a Viet Cong by an RVN general - pistol shot to the head. Back story that didn't get reported at the time was the VC guy had just assassinated the General's friend, IIRC. Only ran across that myself a few years ago. In a way, I can't blame folks for being upset about all that crap. Unfortunately, they took it out on the wrong people. My favorite guy to hate over it is Robert McNamara. I cannot adequately express myself in a public forum. I'll just leave it at that.