rage recoup vs 45ACP

[sdelam]

Hello all, I have a few questions I guess. I am using range scape currently, I havent been able to find a source for wheel weights yet. I am interested in casting mostly for .45acp. I understand that by using scrap a have no idea what it is and will likely be very soft.

With that being said;

If I am useing a lee 230g RN mold and they are averaging around 233-234, what does that tell me?

What is too soft for 45acp?

If I use solder to harden, how much? Do I just add slow until I get them down to 230?

If I am useing solder from lowes @ $19 a pound, and mix at 20 to 1 that averages about 690 rounds for $19?

Thanks guys, I'm sure I'll come up with more later.

[fallout4x4]

I would think that at the velocities a 45acp runs it wouldnt really matter if it was a little bit soft, ya?

[JIMinPHX]

Welcome aboard sir,

Being overweight by a few grains isn't a reliable way to assay your mix. There are too many different things that can affect boolit weight, like a slightly oversized mold. Somebody needs to use a hardness tester on it. For a quick farmer's test, you can try to scratch it with your thumb nail. If your thumbnail puts a big ol' gash in it, then it's soft. Some people recommend the drop test, but unless you know what to listen & look for, it can be a bit tough to describe.

If the range scrap is mostly .22 rimfire, then it will be a little soft. .45acp is fairly tolerant of soft alloys though. If you have at least 25% hard cast range scrap in there, then you should have a pretty nice mix. Even 5-10% should get you by.

Solder by itself is not a good hardener. You want a little antimony in there. If you can't get WW to mix in & your range scrap has no (or almost no) hardcast in it, then you might want to scrounge around for a little bird shot or linotype, or babbit to throw into the mix. You don't need much for a .45. A little dab will do you.

You probably don't need 20:1. 50:1 (2%) solder is enough, assuming that it is the lead free type solder, even if your primary mix has no tin in it to start with. If your range scrap is mostly from hard cast, then you shouldn't even need that much. When you start pouring your boolits, if you get good fill out, then don't bother with the solder. If you are using 50/50 solder, then you may need to double the amount that I suggested.

$19/lb is a little stiff for solder. You might want to shop around a little.

[runfiverun]

a lb of tin should be enough for 100 lbs of lead, if they seem too soft a handfull of 5%Sb shot will help you out.
and for a lot of ranges they are mostly shooting commercial boolits so you might actually be hard. and won't need any tin.
other than that see above post .....................................and welcome aboard.

[Echo]

Grainger sells it MUCH cheaper...

[twidget]

Try the range lead as is before you add tin or antimony. I've been using it for quite a while and it works fine in my .45s and .38s without adding anything. Boolits don't have to be hard to work well.

[sdelam]

Thanks guys, Most of my scrap is copper jacket stuff, I sift through a dirt back stop and picking up 22's would be hell. I've cast about 300 rounds so far and the mold fills out fine, I'm just worried about leading.

[NSP64]

You can always add a few hard cast ones from the backstop to harden it up a bit. I like to go down after shotgun season and pick up all the rifled slugs that are laying about. then add in some hard cast that I find to harden them up for my 45. Proper size and a good lube goes far when preventing leading. Welcome to the board.

[jonk]

Like has been said, .45 is pretty tolerant of soft alloy. In fact, I was getting horrible leading in mine because I was using too HARD an alloy and it wasn't sealing up to the bore properly.

I run a 50/50 mix of WW and pure lead now for the .45 and it seems to do just fine.

[MT Gianni]

A cheap hardness check is to take a couple of bullets of known hardness, ideally lino and ww, and put them at opposite ends in a vise. Tighten the vise and see the relationship between how the softer alloy is compacted against the lino and then the ww. If you can get pure lead also that would help in your evaluation of your alloy. Bullets should be the same so melt a ladle full of the known alloy and pour a bullet then move to the next alloy.
Another method is to melt and mix your alloy and mail a few bullets to someone with a tester. Many of us have done that for someone. Gianni

[38 Super Auto]

My experience has been similar to jonk. I have had leading when I used my standard hard (15-17 BHN) alloy in 45acp. I have seen two kinds of leading in my rigs:

1) ribbons of lead that try to fill the grooves from too fast and too soft alloys

2) spray or spatter type of leading from flame or heat melting of bullet and alloy flow past the bullet prior to bore being sealed by bullet obturation.

If you look at very high speed camera footage of gun fire, you can see some smoke and sometimes flash leading the bullet out of the muzzle. That tells me that initially there is blowby of chamber gases before the front of the chamber is sealed by bullet deformation.

I read some experimental data in the Lee reloading manual (yes, it's a commercial for Lee products, but does have some good info) that pointed to a relationship between bullet hardness, velocity and accuracy.

IMO, this dater says that you need finite deformation of the bullet - not too much and not too little - for best accuracy.

That being said: I'd use your alloy and watch for leading. Remember, most cast guys recommend sizing your boolits 0.001" to 0.002" above your GROOVE diameter.

rob

[Cherokee]

Use the aloy as is, use a good lube and size to 452 or maybe 453. Should work fine.

[sdelam]

I have some BP lead rounds so i did some fingernail testing, the rounds i made up are a good bit harder than those. I think i will press as is.

[wlambert]

I have been using lead salvaged from an indoor pistol range for several years. It is a mix of .22, cast, and lead cores from jacketed bullets. I cast .38 and .45 wadcutters. I use light loads of Bullseye for target work and lubricate with Lyman Orange Magic.

The lead seems to be fairly soft, but results have been very good with no sign of leading what so ever.