What am i doing Wrong Casting

[BPortelli]

Hi guys
so first time actually casting some 223 in lee 6 cavity
and i kept getting imperfections/ wrinkle lines in them, not all
these were some after about putting 20 or so through the mold
had the temperature of lead at 330-400Celcius as was using pid controller

any advice please, rather then trying to trouble shoot not knowing exactly what im doing.

not sure if these are actually acceptable and im just OCD and wanted perfect casts :mrgreen:
261735

[Bloodman14]

Start by raising the temp of the mold, some need to be run hot. Make sure your alloy is clean and fluxed well, and get a good rhythm going; cull later, make boolits first. It is a learning experience; read the stickies.

[rcslotcar]

The first thing I thought was mold temp also.

[lightman]

Give the mold a good cleaning before you try again. Hot water and Dawn dish washing detergent is a favorite. Or use some brake cleaner. Then try raising the temperature a few degrees. It could be that your alloy needs a little more tin but try those other things first.

Oh yeah, Welcome Aboard.

[BPortelli]

cool thank you everyone
will give these suggestions a try

was a bit windy also, so might not have helped

[GooseGestapo]

Also, you need to “smoke” the mold. After degreasing the mold, it’s necessary to coat the cavities with a layer of soot.

I prefer to use a barbecue-lighter type butane lighter.
DON’T use a wax candle! The wax residue is guaranteed to wrinkle your bullets.
Also, if you add 2-5% lead-free solder (95% tin, 5% antimony) it will greatly improve the fill out of the bullets and decrease rejects. It also makes a more velocity tolerant bullet.

[Dapaki]

I have the same mold and had the same problem getting fillout. I ended up dipping the mold into the pot (a little more than just the corner) to get it super hot! The first 2 batches were frosted but by the time I threw the third run, the mold had cooled and the mold filled out properly.

My opinion is that there is a LOT of aluminum to heat with 6 teeny-tiny pills providing all energy ans it just cannot keep up.

I follow the advice of others in my prep of a new mold, with some departure: I disassemble new molds and use anti-seize liberally on all surfaces that touch each-other except for the faces and cavities. I too use brake cleaner inside the mold (I find that even a toothbrush and soap will scratch the insides of the LEE aluminum molds) and smoke the cavities with a lit bamboo skewer.

Good luck and keep her HOT!

[ukrifleman]

All good advice so far.

Definitely de-grease and smoke the cavities to enable the bullets to release easily.

Also, make sure you follow Lee's instructions and put a dab of beeswax onto the locating pins and sprue plate swivel bolt to aid smooth opening and closing.

The metal handles on a Lee 6 cavity mould can dissipate the heat away from the mould and you will get wrinkled bullets as they are too cool.

I use a hotplate to rest the mould on, to keep the temperature high enough for all 6 cavities to cast good bullets.

I also found that I needed to run the alloy temperature higher with a 6 cavity mould than for a 2 cavity.

If you are planning to tumble lube with Lee liquid Alox, then higher temperature frosted bullets are a good thing, as the lube adheres better.

Enjoy your new found hobby, just remember to employ safe practices when casting including sufficient ventilation.

ukrifleman

[DHDeal]

I'd just toss those already cast back in the pot. I'm very picky about the bases and won't accept any wrinkles. Contrary to what many do, I'll cull as I'm casting. Usually if a base isn't perfect the bullet won't be either, and just push that particular bullet out of the mold into the sprue pan. I ladle cast and keep my molds very hot, so when I'm casting I have a little time between my next pour to see any imperfections.

I'll add that my aluminum molds are Accurate Molds and probably hold heat much better than a Lee. My brass molds will stay hot forever it seems...

[toallmy]

Try preheating your mold and poring a large puddle on top of the plate to keep it hot .

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Try preheating your mold and poring a large puddle on top of the plate to keep it hot .

^^^ THIS ! ^^^

btw, BPortelli, Welcome to the forum.

[Rigsby]

...casting some 223 in lee 6 cavity
i kept getting imperfections/ wrinkle lines in them,...
261735

I second raising the temperature on the lead slightly, my experience with 6-cavity Lee's is that you need to find the rhythm which keeps the mold at the correct temp and going with that.

I use two 6-cavity molds and swap starting with 3 then 2 and finally every fill(s), by doing this it will allow me to stay within the correct temp window for so much longer, this way I am actually able to empty the melter (Lee production pot). without interruptions.

Getting back to your bullets wrinkles, I wouldn't be too worried, as long as they are like hairlines they most likely shouldn't have any impact on accuracy.

The bullets you are casting are Gascheck-bullets as far as my tired eyes can tell so please consider that you need to add a gascheck during sizing.

As always, only my humble experience......

[Land Owner]

David Fryxell says:

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_8_IdleMusings.htm


Heating the Sprue Plate. Mould temperature and pot temperature are two variables that are addressed in virtually all of the cast bullet literature. A problem that is commonly encountered and not generally addressed is bullets that are poorly filled out and wrinkled, and frosty, suggesting that the mould and/or alloy might be too hot. This problem is especially prevalent in the aluminum moulds that are so popular today. The caster usually figures his alloy must be too hot since the bullets are frosty, so he turns the temperature down and the problem just gets worse. His next conclusion is that problem must be with his alloy or how it was processed, and so he goes back and fluxes it again and again, and once more no improvement is seen. The mould and pot temperatures may well be too hot, but the real problem is that the sprue plate is too cool. The steel sprue plate takes longer to heat up than does the aluminum mould, so the molten alloy is getting poured through a chiller before it gets into the mould cavities, the viscosity increases, the alloy is no longer able to fill out the cavity properly, and the bullet comes out wrinkled. It’s frosty because the mould blocks are indeed hot and it takes a long time for the alloy to cool down from that point on so the antimony gets a chance to segregate, but the problem lies in the fact that the alloy is too cool when it enters the cavities. The solution to this problem is to make sure the sprue plate is fully heated up before casting. For typical iron/steel moulds, this is no big deal since both the mould blocks and the sprue plate have similar thermal conductivities and heat up at the same rate (this is why the problem isn‘t addressed in the classic casting literature, historically ferrous moulds have been used). But for aluminum moulds, the aluminum blocks heat up much faster than does the sprue plate. The caster can either heat up the sprue plate by casting a bunch of rejects, or he can pre-heat the mould upside down on the rim of the pot, so the heat enters the mould blocks through the sprue plate, thereby ensuring good thermal equilibrium between the two. This is also an issue when casting with the 8 and 10 cavity H&G gang moulds, with their gargantuan 3/8” plate steel sprue cutters. There’s more steel in one of these sprue cutters than there is most 2 cavity moulds! The sprue plate must be hot to cast good bullets!

[Conditor22]

anytime I have problems with a new mold I scrub it really well with hot water, dish soap and a toothbrush (or denture brush)

with small bullets, you need to get the mold warm around 200° C. which is easiest done on a hot plate with a piece of metal sitting on it.

330 C =626 F is too cold 400C = 752F which should work with any alloy

first question -- what alloy are you using?

You may not have enough tin in the alloy

for 223 you are going to want a fairly hard alloy preferably with a little copper in it.

the second question what casting pot are you using are you doing a bottom pour or using a dipper

imperfections are more of an issue with rifle bullets that travel at higher speeds and are usually shot at longer distances.

[gwpercle]

New moulds need to be broken in with 3 to 5 casting or heat cycling sessions.
Brand new moulds have machining oils deep in the pores...heating will force more out .
A long soak in acetone and/or a scrub with acetone and toothbrush help get the oil out .
3 to 5 casting sessions also "season" the mould and it develops a patina ...no smoke, soot or mould release will be needed after the mould in broken in .
6 cavity moulds have a lot of aluminum to heat and the cavities are tiny...use a hot plate to heat and keep that 6 cavity mould hot.
Remember at least 3 to 5 heating up - casting - slooow coool down sessions required before you should expect good boolits... clean well with acetone after and before casting ...it must be done !

After the mould gets broken in & all the oil gone you won't have to use the acetone clean on it .

For small cal. rifle boolits ...strive for perfectly cast , sharp well filled out , no wrinkles , perfect bases . Frosted is ok...I shoot for just at frosty, helps with fill out .

Refer to link in post #13 , that link is chapter 8 , read all the articles written by Glen E. Fryxell on casting ....there are many chapters to his book all on line ...Book name is "From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide For Handgunners".
extremely good info !
Gary

[The Dar]

I have the same 6 cavity mold. I preheat the mold on a hot plate. Lead in the bottom pour pot at 720F. I fill the cavities and cut the sprue when ready. Then immediately fill the cavities again. I had many wrinkles when I first started using the mold. I realized that there isn't enough lead to keep the mold hot. Try casting faster, see if it helps.

[BPortelli]

Conditor22: anytime I have problems with a new mold I scrub it really well with hot water, dish soap and a toothbrush (or denture brush)
have re cleaned the mold but may do another clean again and smoke it up well.

with small bullets, you need to get the mold warm around 200° C. which is easiest done on a hot plate with a piece of metal sitting on it.
330 C =626 F is too cold 400C = 752F which should work with any alloy


have set pot temp now to 400C, using a butane blow torch to heat up the mold as dont have anything else and sitting on top of pot takes to long

first question -- what alloy are you using?

custom blend, around 20-22bhn, might be little hard

You may not have enough tin in the alloy
for 223 you are going to want a fairly hard alloy preferably with a little copper in it.

the second question what casting pot are you using are you doing a bottom pour or using a dipper
using lee 10lb pot bottom pour

second batch was much nicer and filled out the mold
just wondering and bored with being in isolation decided to weigh a few of them, i was getting quite a spread anything from 51min-53max grain weight
(this is raw before any powder coat or sizing)
261781

[Cosmic_Charlie]

This has been a useful and informative thread.

[Conditor22]

that boolit looks much better

try this when starting your pour. pour a little lead into a container under the spout to clear the spout of colder lead - do this every time you start filling the mold

pressure pour - how each cavity snug to the spout, fill the cavity then lower the mold while still pouring to create a puddle on the sprue

Pressure pouring is a good way to get good boolits in a cooler mold.

alternate ends each time you start - helps maintain a more even mold temperature

20-22bhn not too bad for 223 depending on how fast you push them.

[JoeJames]

"Also, if you add 2-5% lead-free solder (95% tin, 5% antimony) it will greatly improve the fill out of the bullets and decrease rejects. It also makes a more velocity tolerant bullet. " That's a very good tip. I am getting in some 99% lead, and was casting (pardon the pun) about for the perfect tin mixture.

[bangerjim]

G'day, mate!

Follow the above! I too have that mold and (when I was casting for my 223's) had problems with it. Cleaned it 1st. Smoked it 2nd. Then always after those initial ONE TIME treatments, I always pre-heat all my molds to almost casting temp on an electric hotplate. Forget the olde-tyme method of putting on the edge of your pot, unless you have hours to spare. My electric 1500 watt flat-top plate heats up to 6 molds and keeps them there ready for rotation into my casting session. 1st drops are always perfect!

good luck.

Practice makes perfect. Nice thing is - - - Pb mistakes made do re-melt real nice!

I no longer try to cast those stinkin' little pills. I watch sales and buy 600-1000 223 FMJ boolits and use those. The cast ones are just too hard to manage, especially when PC'ing them!

bangerjim

[BPortelli]

G'day, mate!

Follow the above! I too have that mold and (when I was casting for my 223's) had problems with it. Cleaned it 1st. Smoked it 2nd. Then always after those initial ONE TIME treatments, I always pre-heat all my molds to almost casting temp on an electric hotplate. Forget the olde-tyme method of putting on the edge of your pot, unless you have hours to spare. My electric 1500 watt flat-top plate heats up to 6 molds and keeps them there ready for rotation into my casting session. 1st drops are always perfect!

good luck.

Practice makes perfect. Nice thing is - - - Pb mistakes made do re-melt real nice!

I no longer try to cast those stinkin' little pills. I watch sales and buy 600-1000 223 FMJ boolits and use those. The cast ones are just too hard to manage, especially when PC'ing them!

bangerjim


Thanks Bangerjim
yes they are tiny little things, but in Aus the price of fmj arent really as economical, probably triple the cost of what you can get in US and difficult to get large bulk quantities.
somethings to consider in the future i guess, im sure ill eventually get another caliber rifle so investment in equipment isnt a waste, plus can do fishing sinkers at the same time :)

[Bloodman14]

Fishing sinkers are a waste of perfectly good lead!:Fire:

[fcvan]

I started out with a Lyman 225-415, and the Lee is basically a copy. The Lyman is a steel mold and I always preheated before casting by placing a tin lid trimmed to fit over the operating rod/spigot of a Lee 10lb bottom pour pot. Once the lead was hot the mold was hot. Being just a 2 cavity mold and a lot of steel I had to run the mold faster to maintain heat.

Those little gas checks were a pain but they shot well. I started powder coating with a gun and those loads gave me 1" at 100 yards. I even got a CheckMaker die from PatMarlins and making the tiny checks was also a pain. Then someone here designed a 62 grain round nose plain base mold for powder coating, made by NOE. I had to have one! I bought a 3 cavity aluminum mold and love it. The quality is so great that is was not my last NOE purchase.

Being aluminum it has to be pre-heated and kept hot by casting with just the one mold and keeping a good pace. I ASBBPC (shake and bake) and place them on parchment paper. I fan fold the paper so the boolits stay put. I plan on getting a silicon ice cube tray so I can just place them in the little 1/2" x 1/2" holes.

I can crank out a lot of boolits rather quickly and love shooting them in my AR 15, Mini 14, and a 24" H-Bar single shot. I hate buying projectiles unless I get a deal. Otherwise, I would rather cast my own. Currently, I have about 10 pounds of the Lyman boolits PCd and checked, and 20 pounds of the NOE boolits PCd and ready to go. Sure, I can blast away cheaply, but I don't. I probably have 250 empties ready to process and load but there is no rush as I have cases many rounds loaded and on stripper clips. Love shooting cast!

[JoeJames]

GooseGestapo’s tip on lead free solder came in very handy today. I was up at a cousin’s scrounging for lead and looking for tin. I mentioned lead free solder and he gave me a 1 pound roll. Thanks for the tip!

[fredj338]

GooseGestapo’s tip on lead free solder came in very handy today. I was up at a cousin’s scrounging for lead and looking for tin. I mentioned lead free solder and he gave me a 1 pound roll. Thanks for the tip!
Use it sparingly, 1% pretty much does it for castability. I use 20-1 lead/tin for HP running to 1200fps.

[JoeJames]

Use it sparingly, 1% pretty much does it for castability. I use 20-1 lead/tin for HP running to 1200fps.My math skills may be rusty, but I am cyphering 4 ounces of tin to 5 pounds of lead.

[Land Owner]

5 pounds @ 16 oz/pound ==> 5 * 16 = 80 oz.

1% ==> 0.01 * 80 = 0.8 oz. tin!!!

***************************

20 to 1 ==> 100 to 5 (or 5%)

5% ==> 0.05 * 80 = 4 oz. tin!!!

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Hard to cast bad boolits with that 20/1 alloy. I ordered a good amount from Roto Metals when I first started casting on a recommendation from this site. Got off to a good start with it.