New to muzzleloading

[Biggin]

I got a couple of questions. I've been reloading off and on for years and just started casting a couple of years ago. Now I'm looking at muzzleloading for fun and maybe hunting. I've got a friend who is offering to sell me a TC Renegade Hunter in 50 cal. It looks to be in good condition for as old as he says it is. Nearly 40 years he says. He said it's been sitting in the safe for probably 20. It's not perfect it does have some minor rust and dings from being moved around and handled. Probably never been shot more than a few times. My first question is, what's it worth? He says he doesn't know and knowing how he is I believe him. He probably would just give it to me if it wasn't for his wife but I want to be fair about it. Give it a month and he'll probably forget he even gave it to me. Anyhow I ain't bent that way so any suggestions would be appreciated. My other question is about the ramrod. He told me to get another one. Said the one that's with it was a cheap fiberglass rod and would wear out the rifling at the muzzle. Is that a problem and if it is what do I need to buy? Btw if there is already a thread on any of this I apologize up front. I did several searches and couldn't find anything.

[megasupermagnum]

It's obviously tough to put a number on a gun I can't see. I don't know if this is true or not, but I consider the hunter to be worth less than the regular renegade. I love the double trigger on the standard renegade. The single trigger of the hunter model is plenty good though. I would say $200 should be fair, more depending on how nice it is. I used to be an aluminum ramrod fan, but I'm starting to lean towards a good hickory rod being the best. They are lighter, better looking, and very strong. This needs to be a proper hickory dowel cut for ramrods only, so the grain is orientated to handle the force. Everything you will need can be had at Track of the wolf, including your ramrod. Aluminum or Hickory work great. Brass does too but is way too heavy for the job. Stay away from Delrin, unless you like loading with a cooked spaghetti noodle. Also consider a second range rod for loading and cleaning. I love those stainless steel rods TOTW sells.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/831/1/RAMROD-265-TC-H

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/830/1

[indian joe]

I got a couple of questions. I've been reloading off and on for years and just started casting a couple of years ago. Now I'm looking at muzzleloading for fun and maybe hunting. I've got a friend who is offering to sell me a TC Renegade Hunter in 50 cal. It looks to be in good condition for as old as he says it is. Nearly 40 years he says. He said it's been sitting in the safe for probably 20. It's not perfect it does have some minor rust and dings from being moved around and handled. Probably never been shot more than a few times. My first question is, what's it worth? He says he doesn't know and knowing how he is I believe him. He probably would just give it to me if it wasn't for his wife but I want to be fair about it. Give it a month and he'll probably forget he even gave it to me. Anyhow I ain't bent that way so any suggestions would be appreciated. My other question is about the ramrod. He told me to get another one. Said the one that's with it was a cheap fiberglass rod and would wear out the rifling at the muzzle. Is that a problem and if it is what do I need to buy? Btw if there is already a thread on any of this I apologize up front. I did several searches and couldn't find anything.

Clean it and put a light down the bore (endoscope preferably) if the bore is scratchy I'd proly forget it or take it home for trial.

Ramrod - any ramrod you use should have a tapered bore protector (brass is best) on it to protect the muzzle - the protector needs tapered so it only makes contact with the taper of the muzzle crown - a parallel side muzzle guard that goes inside will mark the rifling over time.

[Biggin]

Hey thanks for the replies that helps a lot!

[mooman76]

I agree with Mega on the price. I have allot of different RRs and they all seem to work. I have a fiberglass rod and it works fine. It wouldn't be my first choice but it doesn't wear out the muzzle like people think. There was testing don't at Muzzleloader Mag and they found not appreciable wear from fiberglass rods. Like Indian Joe said one of those tapered bore protector would also take care of any doubt. I coated mine with a polymer so I wouldn't pick up slivers in my hand. Rods even wood will pick up grit that can wear on a muzzle but that's easily remedied by wiping it clean. Delrin (also not a first choice)is also kinda wimpy but it still does it's job. If you get a RR make sure the ends are pinned. Eventually the glue gives way and you end up with a stuck object down the bore so pinning avoids a future headache.

[pietro]

.

FWIW, I've been using fiberglass ramrods for over 30 years w/o any wear to the bore/rifling.:popcorn:

I make then from Dollar Store ($1 for anything) orange driveway marking rods, plus two different RR ends (one cupped, one w/female threads for jags, etc) from Track Of The Wolf, epoxying and drilling/pinning the ends of the marker after cutting it to the needed length.


.

[waksupi]

Man, I need to get into my old photos. Somewhere I have a picture of demonstrating cutting into a barrel with a fiberglass rod. In less than a hundred strokes, I had cut a groove 1/16" deep in a barrel.

[725]

Brass rods are pricey but are a joy to use. Lathe turn grip grooves on either end and thread for attachments. Hickory probably looks better and work just fine. It's up to you and your preferences. T/C side hammers are fantastic guns and I'd buy them all day at $200 in good / barely used shape. Should the bore be trashed from neglect or abuse, Bob Hoyt can "refresh" or make larger calibers out of 'em. A great resource for fixing stuff or getting the caliber / twist you want.

[LAGS]

Hoyt can also Re Line them back to their original caliber.
And you can select your Twist Rate to suite you shooting.
I have had several done Both ways in the last two years.

[megasupermagnum]

Hoyt can also Re Line them back to their original caliber.
And you can select your Twist Rate to suite you shooting.
I have had several done Both ways in the last two years.

What has been your experience on accuracy of rebore vs reline? I spent all last year getting my 54 caliber renegade to shoot good enough where I was happy with it. It does 3" at 75 yards. I would like more accuracy than this, but it is all I need. As it is, I had to go to a .520" ball and canvas patch to get that accuracy. In an ideal world, I'd like to go to a slow twist 54 caliber, be able to use a .530" ball to match my pistol, and pick up accuracy to boot.

[LAGS]

I just had a TC .54 Renagade re lined to a 1:60 twist
I shot it the other day for the first time.
At 50 yards it was holding a 2" group.
I was not going for accuracy right now because I am totally refinishing the rifle and am going to Brown or blue the metal.
I have not shot the .50 Renagade barrel that I got re lined and done in a slow twist.
But I never liked the 1:48 twist on TC's
The .56 smooth bore that I had bored out and rifles to a .61 cal. slow twist is shooting around the same at 100 yards at times.
Those groups with the .54 were done with a .530 ball and home made powder

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Biggin,

That rifle is probably in the $125 - $275 range, unseen.
As far as the fiberglass rod, I'd say maybe get a range rod.
Fiberglass should hold true while shooting like a wood one.
But a Delrin rod will shift forward while shooting,
of course a wood one can break & go through an arm.
I'd say for hunting, a few reloads with the Fiberglass rod isn't going to hurt anything.
I'd try to find a mentor, I know I went to a many Black Powder Shoots
and talked to many shooters before I made the jump.
It's a fun sport, my brother, my son, and I do an annual deer hunt (it's a blast).

AntiqueSledMan.

[Biggin]

Hello Biggin,

That rifle is probably in the $125 - $275 range, unseen.
As far as the fiberglass rod, I'd say maybe get a range rod.
Fiberglass should hold true while shooting like a wood one.
But a Delrin rod will shift forward while shooting,
of course a wood one can break & go through an arm.
I'd say for hunting, a few reloads with the Fiberglass rod isn't going to hurt anything.
I'd try to find a mentor, I know I went to a many Black Powder Shoots
and talked to many shooters before I made the jump.
It's a fun sport, my brother, my son, and I do an annual deer hunt (it's a blast).

AntiqueSledMan.

Thanks antiquesledman and everyone else for the advice. About 200 is what I was thinking offering. I do have a friend who has been wanting me to go to rendezvous with him and join a black powder club I'll have to take him up on his offer. I thought casting was addictive a little BP in the blood seems just as bad!! Lol! Thanks ya'll.

[RU shooter]

I'm done with wood rods after having one break on me and getting some serious splinters in my hand . I got a rod off of Amazon that is I believe a fiberglass core and a plastic outer sleeve and threaded on one end with brass insert you cut to length and pin and glue a rod end might not be HIstoricly correct but it's not gonna end up in my hand
https://www.amazon.com/Connecticut-Valley-CVA-Fiberglass-Universal/dp/B00GKFYEP6/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=universal+fiberglass+ramrod&qid=1588940405&sr=8-4

[carbine]

MegaSuperman
I have had 6 guns done by Bobby over the years. All shoot extremely well. One that was done in 1986 will still shoot a one hole group at 50 yards (From a rest). It has at least 30,000 rounds through it.

[Beerd]

Thanks antiquesledman and everyone else for the advice. About 200 is what I was thinking offering. I do have a friend who has been wanting me to go to rendezvous with him and join a black powder club I'll have to take him up on his offer. I thought casting was addictive a little BP in the blood seems just as bad!! Lol! Thanks ya'll.

you got that right!
Good luck!
..

[megasupermagnum]

MegaSuperman
I have had 6 guns done by Bobby over the years. All shoot extremely well. One that was done in 1986 will still shoot a one hole group at 50 yards (From a rest). It has at least 30,000 rounds through it.

So the liner is just as good as a rebore? I think you guys have me sold. I'm going to look into having mine lined with a 54 caliber slow twist.

[LAGS]

I think you are going to be happy with the re line.
I have two more barrels , a 50 and another .54 that I too plan to have Relined.
But this .54 may get a Faster Twist for shooting Projectals durring Elk Season.

[jj500]

I think if it was me I would buy it for 200 and shoot it as is,until I learned a little more about it.Then if I found out I liked it .well then upgrade to a better gun.No use putting a lot of money into it and not liking the sport.Not sure what a reline would be maybe 200 plus 200 for the gun plus how much for the proper stuff to make it go bang.

[markX]

Is it flint or percussion? That will sway the price. If it’s flint I would buy it for 200 and run. If percussion I’d offer 150.

Bore condition goes a long way too, but I’ve seen some ugly bores still shoot well.

All in all it would be a great intro gun as others have suggested.

Buy it, shoot it, learn it, and then decide on changes or new/different gun in the future.

As far as the ramrod goes can always getba range rod which is useful anyways. Links to TOW have already been posted above and they have just about any combo you could want. Ebay also has ramrods that pop up for cheap often.

Enjoy your intro into blackpowder!!!

Word of caution, it’s addicting lol I started with one lyman, got into the TC’s, and now have 3 of one 6 of the other and some pistols as well. You might need a new safe soon!!!