Chiappa Baby Sharps .357 magnum

[gmkmd]

Howdy gents,
I recently got one of those Chiappa (for Charles Daly) Baby Sharps in .357 magnum, and started shooting it. It’s a lot of fun, but I’m pretty disappointed with the accuracy (or rather, lack there of). I shot some Remington factory loads, and some cheaper reloads, both with 158 grain lead semi-wadcutters, and some .38 Specials with 158 grain lead round nosed bullets. They all gave groups about 3 to 4 inches at 50 yards (from the bench). I did manage to get one group about 2 inches.
I measured the twist rate, and found it to be 1:12, which is abnormally fast for a .357 magnum rifle. I’ll still need to try some other loads and other bullets, but I’m interested n your thoughts. Does the faster twist mean that I should try a lighter bullet?

[junkbug]

I would try heavier bullets at a lower velocity. Maybe like the old 200 gr .38 special police load.

[KMac]

I think the usual twist rate for .357 magnum is 1:16. I would probably try some 180 gr in it and see how it does.
However I have never reloaded for a .357 magnum (yet) so I am certainly not well-versed on this matter.

[Good Cheer]

12" twist!
Oh wouldn't a long bore rider seated out to preserve powder space just be the cats meow!

[john.k]

Twist rate is certainly excessive...a 357 Mag in a rifle would need to be somewhere round 1/20 IMHO.....A 1/12 twist would handle long heavy rifle bullets in something like 35 Whelan...Anyway ,heavier bullets will likely be better ,but velocity reduced undesirably.

[enfield]

use the Lee 35 Rem bullet, 200 grains . load up some light loads and go from there.

[357Mag]

GMKMD -

Howdy !

The comparatively fats twist of your rifle could handle a bullet that is l-o-n-g for its weight.
Monolithic copper and brass bullets are like that.

If you ever feel like trying a monolithic, the most accurate .35 calibre bullet I’ve found is Cutting Edge’
150gr Extended Range “ Raptor” ( in my M-336 XLR .35 Rem ). This particular bullet happens to be a turned brass hollow point, that features an aerodynamic plastic point.

I mention those bullets because Cutting Edge also make .357” cal mono’s in 105, 140; and 160gr weights.
They are copper hollow points.

And yeh.... they are $$$


With regards,
357Mag

[dtknowles]

You might want to do a chamber casting or a pound casting or just try some dummies with the bullets seated long to see if the problem is not the throat. .357 is usually a revolver round, revolvers have a long throat and a jump to the forcing cone. Maybe you have a long throat and could seat the bullets long and still be a couple thousandths off the lands.

Tim

[Jedman]

1 in 12" twist should be no problem in the 357 mag. I have built several 45 ACP rifles and one pistol with Chaszels barrel blanks in 1 in 12 twist and they shoot 200 gr. cast Boolits very accurately.

Jedman

[koger]

Another factor could be the type sights on it, what are they. On all my Henrys, I change the front bead out for one the same height, but about 3x smaller, and man does it help accuracy/groups.

[gpidaho]

gmkmd: I'd be thinking 35 Blackout, I have tested some 235gr FPs Like would usually be fired from a 35 Wheelen in my long throated 357 Handi rifle 4 to 4.5 Unique made a nice no recoil pretty quiet round. Gp

[NSB]

If you're shooting cast bullets you need to see what your bore diameter is. I have owned several .357mag rifles and I can tell you for a fact that undersized bullets will shoot as poorly as what you're reporting. In fact, just being .001 under will give you very poor results. Recently I had two different barrels made for my .357max gun and one was 1:16 and one was 1:20 twist. The hands down clear winner is the 1:16. That is the standard twist for .357 firearms. I found that I could get 158g bullets to shoot "ok" in the 1:20 barrel but could not get any good results with the heavier bullets. I recently got the 1:16 barrel and it shoots "lights out" with the 158g (range variation) and shoots the heavier bullets much better than the 1:20 twist. I've had several custom built revolvers built over the years by such notables as Bill Davis and he highly recommended using the 1:16 twist in any .357 gun. Yesterday I was out trying several different loads and bullets with the new 1:16 barrel and the last group I shot was .5" c-c at fifty yards.....with eight shots (jacketed). That's the one I'm loading today for hunting. Good luck, I think that gun will shoot if you just find the right bullet.

[blackpowder man]

I agree with checking bore diameter too. Last Uberti I had was a .38 special 1871 conversion revolver and it liked unsized bullets at least .360 diameter. Same with my Marlin.

[pietro]

.

Welcome to the board, GMKMD ! ! :drinks:


.

[dverna]

I was considering one of those baby RB's as a fun gun but that kind of accuracy would be unacceptable.

[gmkmd]

Thank you all so much for your advice! I tried it today with Federal 180-grain SJHP's, and got groups down to 1 1/2 inches at 50 yards. Better, but not all that great. But my next step will be to slug the bore.

[NSB]

Thank you all so much for your advice! I tried it today with Federal 180-grain SJHP's, and got groups down to 1 1/2 inches at 50 yards. Better, but not all that great. But my next step will be to slug the bore.

What powder(s) are you using? I have found a few really good powders to use for loading this cartridge. I've kept detailed records for several years and even shooting three different guns some of the loads shot well in all of them.

[gmkmd]

I measured the bore; the bore diameter is 0.346” (via plug gauge), and the groove diameter is 0.3575” (via slugging).

[NSB]

I measured the bore; the bore diameter is 0.346” (via plug gauge), and the groove diameter is 0.3575” (via slugging).

I've read through what you've posted so far and I'm not sure if you're reloading or using someone else's reloads? You did state that you used some factory loads in your OP, and used some "cheaper reloads". That leads me to think that maybe you're not reloading yourself. Also, what kind of sights are you using on the gun? I'd like to mention here one other thing: any of these single shot guns such as this, Sharp replicas, High Walls, Low Walls, and TC single shots all have one very significant problem when it comes to shooting good groups with them....they are very, very susceptible to printing all over the place if they aren't set on the bags correctly. Their design lends itself to being "springy" depending on how they're positioned and how much face pressure is being applied to the stock when shooting the gun. I own some of each type and it's a learned skill to get the correct/sweet spot on the bags. It's usually close to the center of the gun's balance point. DO NOT get the bags too far out front. They are nothing like shooting a full stocked bolt gun. If you reload you can tune the load to the gun, but if you're buying reloads you may not be getting the load your gun likes. Next time out with factory loads take exceptional care to get the gun on the bags in the same exact spot each shot, and put a minimum of face pressure on the stock. You'll get best results if you sit up and use a higher rest. This will take much of the pressure off the stock. I can easily move my POI three-four inches simply by applying different pressure to the stock and/or move the bags. My guns will easily shoot 1 moa with the correct loads. Don't give up on the gun, just learn how to shoot it and stay with factory loads for a while unless you're reloading yourself. Good luck.

[KCSO]

Or It could . just be a poor Chiappa barrel. We have had to send several back for poor accuracy and have had to reline a few.

[onelight]

I had the the baby Sharps in 22 LR the bore on it was really rough.
If I had the .357 I think I would start out with a few hundred jacketed bullets to knock down the rough edges.
My 22 was rough enough it would tear up patches when cleaning . Mine was beautiful on the outside and rough on the inside.