22TCM 1911 and odd problem...

[mattw]

My daughter and I love shooting this pistol, we just hardly ever do it due to a high percentage of split brass. I am used to the normal 1911 firing sequence, but I think something is going awry with this one. My theory... recoil spring is to light and the gun is unlocking to soon and allowing the shoulder to fireform to far forward and splitting the brass. It splits at the body to shoulder junction. Factory ammo, brand new brass loaded and surviving reloads all do it. BTW, the factory rounds as well as my reloads plunk just fine and line up with the edge of the shroud just as they should. I have numerous 1911's, but this is my only bottle neck one and it is driving me nuts. The other though I have had is to trim one way short and drop it in to see if I am headspacing off of the mouth versus the shoulder.

I have attached photos of a factory loaded round with 2 fired rounds and a reload in new brass with 2 fired rounds. The pressure is not excessive and they are lower velocity than factory rounds.

What do the 1911 gurus think? I am going to test the theory next weekend with the 9mm spring, I am sure it will not eject, but I hope to see properly formed cases.

261571
261572

[Groo]

Groo here
Could be a bad chamber check with the mother ship.
Replace the firing pin block with a flat bottom one.
The hammer controls the lockup much more that the slide spring on a 1911.......
most likely a chamber.

[1Hawkeye]

If the firing pin indent on the primer looks like a tear drop that is a sign of opening too soon and you do need a heavier recoil spring.

[mattw]

The gun has been back to RIA for feeding issues... They polished the chamber... They said the chamber is "in spec" and cannot explain the ugly brass. No teardrop firing pin strike. I am almost to the point of ordering a barrel, I sent brass with it the last time, fired of course.

[Misery-Whip]

Do fired unsized cases plunk? If not its definatly timing. Take a chamber cast see what it says.

[35remington]

The gun absolutely cannot unlock “too soon” presuming the gun is not blowback and has the lugs on top of the barrel, which I think it does.

The recoil spring does not control when the gun unlocks, and the gun can only unlock when the bullet has left the barrel. The gun unlocks after the slide travels rearward and is a function of slide travel rather than spring weight. Here again I am presuming the barrel has the standard lugs on the barrel and is not blowback.

A standard 1911 slide and barrel can be fired with no recoil spring whatsoever and it will not unlock “too soon.”

A tear dropped firing pin indent is more a function of a weak firing pin spring than any unlocking issue being “too soon,”. How locked breech pistols function is frequently misunderstood.

[35remington]

A light recoil spring is needed because the momentum and speed the light 22 bullet gives to the slide is low and the slide would not fully cycle to the rear (if a “45” spring were present) as the spring compresses and reaches its full rated strength. During the brief moment the bullet is in the barrel the preload of any relevant spring is very low and does not influence unlocking.

As mentioned, the gun really is incapable of unlocking “too soon” and this is doubly impossible with such a lightweight bullet of low momentum.

[35remington]

Neck/shoulder splits can also be symptomatic of poorly annealed brass.

Depending upon how the chamber is cut and how you are sizing the cases, as well as trimmed case length, it is possible for the cases to be headspacing on either the case mouth or the case shoulder. Ideally when sizing cases the shoulder is not shoved backward greatly.

Actual headspace is the distance between the headspacing surface (shoulder or case mouth) and the face of the breech when the gun is in battery. When in battery some 1911s have a gap twixt barrel hood and breech, so the “plunk test” is a little misleading if this is the condition that is present. In that instance one would have to determine the relevant condition as it applies to your particular 1911.

[35remington]

I might suggest using a comparator to ensure your sized cases do not have their shoulders shoved back excessively compared to cases that are fired and unsized and have come out of your chamber.

[35remington]

What I think I see in the last picture is a loaded case that has its case shoulder significantly further rearward than a fired case. If “crank er down to touch the shellholder plus a bit” or some other nonmeasuring way of sizing the case is being used, the next step is to see if you can accomplish sizing setting the sized case shoulder only a couple of thou back compared to an unsized case.

Doing it this exactingly does get easier with a comparator. Just an idea to run down that is less of a dead end.

[Earlwb]

I think it is poorly annealed brass or some incorrect brass alloy from Armscor. Us reloaders just live with it. But you can buy the empty cases and anneal them yourself before you load them. That seems to work fairly well. But you may still get some that split the necks anyway. I have some of them split the necks even in the bolt action rifle too.

[onelight]

That is an odd problem , it looks like it would be a good candidate for a chamber cast to see what it actually looks like.

[mattw]

@35remington... The jacketed round is factory loaded and the cast load I loaded. I used factory new brass and always size it to be sure it has a good round mouth and and such. When I size it, I set my size die to stop just ahead of the existing shoulder. The fired rounds are moving the shoulder forward, whether they are factory or reloads in new brass. I can try annealing a few to see if that helps, maybe... maybe not. I just cannot accept a 50% failure rate in factory loaded brass.

[onelight]

It seems to me that if your chamber is cut correctly that there is still to much pressure in the case as it is unlocking.
Is it possible a faster burning powder would help ?

[BK7saum]

How close are the fired cases to plunking back into the chamber? What is the protrusion of the case head beyond the barrel hood? If this was something other than a semi-auto, I'd say that the chamber was cut too deep. When checking the plunk test with fired brass, tap on the case head to make sure the case is fully seated. This will tell us a little more about the problem and rule out the correct or overly long chamber.

As stated by Groo, you can replace the firing pin block with a flat bottomed (not fitted) one and retard or slow the unlocking process.

1: measure how far the fired brass has been stretched or pushed back out past the barrel hood

2: replace the firing pin block before any spring changes

[gkainz]

I recall hearing/reading about Armscor 22 tcm brass having "problems" and the last batch of ammo and brass I purchased, the shop mentioned that this batch was after "they addressed the problems" ... yeah, I know - hearsay and nothing to back it up. Just sharing what I've heard. I've not gotten a chance to shoot mine since my last ammo purchase, so I can't verify anything right now.

[roysha]

I am going from what appears to me in your photo. The shoulders on the cases on each side of the factory round, definitely appear sharper and further forward than the factory round.

The photo below shows a factory round with a resized case on the left and a fired but unsized case on the right. Note the shoulders are all in the same place and same angle. My very inexpert opinion is that you have a faulty chamber. I have shot nearly 1000 rounds through my TCM and other then some pretty crappy groups, (patterns) with some of the cast bullet loads, not one problem. I will say one thing however, shooting a TCM in the 9mm barrel just doesn't work very well. Really hard on brass.:oops:

[1006]

The brass photos certainly paint a picture of the chamber being too long. Maybe the factory reamed the chamber when you sent it back.

[Virginia John]

I shoot and reload the 22TCM and in the beginning I remember having my fair share of trouble with the sizing and crimping. I am not saying that you do but you may want to look over your protocol and make some scrupulous measurements. You may find it is not the weapon at all.

[mattw]

Currently, I am splitting between 40 and 50 % of the brass, does not matter if they are reloads or factory new.

[onelight]

If the barrel is fit to the gun correctly and the headspace is in spec it would seem the only way for the shoulder to move is if it is unlocking while under a good bit of pressure.
Will the gun return to battery with a fired case in the chamber ?

[mattw]

Will check this weekend, fired cases at my reloading room... 75 miles away. No place around home to test fire 1. My gut says no.

[onelight]

Will check this weekend, fired cases at my reloading room... 75 miles away. No place around home to test fire 1. My gut says no.
They sure don't look like they would.

[35remington]

The gun cannot unlock when the barrel is pressurized, so do let that idea go. Since the 22 bullet imparts so little momentum to the slide, a small radius firing pin stop is the wrong fix for something that is not occurring. The gun does not need a “delay” in opening because “early unlocking” is not happening.

If anyone is unclear on that point I can explain in detail.

Anneal some brass, size such that the shoulder of a fired case is set back very little (best done with die setup with a comparator) and compare fired case dimension from head to shoulder with a SAAMI spec drawing if you can find one.

It would be good to quantify any difference between fired case size, which may tell you something about the chamber, and the SAAMI dimensions if you can find them.

[35remington]

I just reread where you say you used factory new brass, which means the sized case shoulder is where the factory sets it, not where you set it.

The fired case has a notably shorter neck and the shoulder is further forward by a considerable amount than factory brass.

Likely poorly annealed brass that gives way when it has to stretch a fair amount to fit the chamber.

Suggestion.....since you use factory new brass, try annealing before loading.

Further, anneal the surviving fired brass and set your sizing die so it does not move the shoulder back and try them again.

[onelight]

The gun cannot unlock when the barrel is pressurized, so do let that idea go. Since the 22 bullet imparts so little momentum to the slide, a small radius firing pin stop is the wrong fix for something that is not occurring. The gun does not need a “delay” in opening because “early unlocking” is not happening.

If anyone is unclear on that point I can explain in detail.

Anneal some brass, size such that the shoulder of a fired case is set back very little (best done with die setup with a comparator) and compare fired case dimension from head to shoulder with a SAAMI spec drawing if you can find one.

It would be good to quantify any difference between fired case size, which may tell you something about the chamber, and the SAAMI dimensions if you can find them.
I am not questioning what your knowledge of how this thing works just trying to learn something .
Does the pressure on the breech face create enough friction on the locking lugs to keep the slide and barrel locked together until the pressure drops enough for them to separate ?

[35remington]

Yep, mostly so with a caveat. Think of it as the pressure that is forcing the bullet forward and the friction between bullet and barrel is pulling the barrel “forward” seating it hard into the lug recesses in the slide. Meanwhile the rearward moving slide is tugging the slide/barrel assembly rearward...which is why I put “forward” in quotes in terms of barrel motion, which is actually moving rearward as it is being pulled that way by the slide.

It is like hooking your hands together and pulling in opposite directions. That is what keeps the lugs in solid contact. This force is not trivial.

The forces holding the barrel lugs in contact with their abutments in the slide very actively resist separation while the bullet is in the barrel. Which is why it is very undesirable to have the barrel link trying to disengage the barrel from lockup while these forces are applied. A skinny link is too weak to stand up to these forces, which is why the gun is timed such that those forces are gone before the link starts pulling the barrel lugs out of engagement.

The distance the slide travels while the bullet is in the barrel is a ratio of the mass of the barrel, slide, hammer, and about half the weight of the recoil spring, all of which are set into motion when the gun fires. (This discounts any spring effect for simplification and springs are certainly not the major player....mass is by far). The gun has been carefully designed such that this ratio sees to it the bullet (always!) exits and pressure drops to zero before the link starts pulling the barrel out of engagement.

Always.

Further, for the case to back out of the chamber, the slide has to back up far enough that not only the lugs disengage, but it also has to go rearward enough that the link starts to arrest the barrel’s rearward motion and the barrel is stopped from moving rearward by contacting the frame. Only then can the breech start to back away from the end of the chamber.

The bullet and pressure are not only gone at that moment, they are long past gone.

The barrel separates not because pressure goes away and allows unlocking. The barrel separates because the mechanical timing of the event ensures the pressure is gone first, and then it separates. The separation occurs when the link drags the unpressurized barrel out of engagement with the slide because the slide and barrel has traveled rearward enough to make separation happen.

[onelight]

Thanks for the explanation .

[StrawHat]

Learn something new every time I sign in to this site.

Kevin

[onelight]

It will be interesting to hear if the fired cases will chamber and the slide return to battery with one chambered.
Cause they sure look like they would not, but the pictures may not show the position of the shoulder clear enough.

[1006]

It the gun’s barrel fit is improperly setup, I believe it could begin to unlock prior to the bullet exiting the barrel. Here is some info on the very small amount of unlocking that occurs in a properly setup 1911.

It took me a while to find this, but here is an old photo that shows the 1911 slide does move -ever so slightly- before the bullet exits the barrel.

This is not intended to disagree with the physics as explained by 35Rem. It just shows that the slide is pushed rearward-slightly- just as the round is ignited, This is when full lockup begins, it then remains locked up until the bullets exits the barrel.

Here is a link to the page that I found this old image on.

https://rangehot.com/full-length-guide-rod-1911/

261762

[Texas by God]

IMO RIA owes you a new barrel. That one’s no good. OR it’s bad brass but Armscor is the only brass you can get, right?

[onelight]

It the gun’s barrel fit is improperly setup, I believe it could begin to unlock prior to the bullet exiting the barrel. Here is some info on the very small amount of unlocking that occurs in a properly setup 1911.

It took me a while to find this, but here is an old photo that shows the 1911 slide does move -ever so slightly- before the bullet exits the barrel.

This is not intended to disagree with the physics as explained by 35Rem. It just shows that the slide is pushed rearward-slightly- just as the round is ignited, This is when full lockup begins, it then remains locked up until the bullets exits the barrel.

Here is a link to the page that I found this old image on.

https://rangehot.com/full-length-guide-rod-1911/

261762
Thanks for posting that , Interesting.

[35remington]

The photo shows no unlocking whatsoever. Note the lugs are fully engaged as the bullet is nearly out the barrel. This supports what I posted above. I also mentioned the slide is moving while the bullet traverses the barrel.

The gun cannot unlock “early.” A 1911 shooting a lightweight bullet, even vastly more so.

[35remington]

Note the measurement of slide motion is about 0.075”. The bullet is almost out of the barrel. The link does not start to pull the barrel out of the lugs seats until around 0.110-0.120” of slide travel, this with a 230 grain bullet. The bullet and pressure, as stated, is long gone by the time the barrel starts to unlock.

A light 22 TCM bullet means the barrel is even less likely to be pressurized when the barrel is pulled out of battery. Which is to say no chance whatsoever. The info in the posted link shows no amount of unlocking is occurring. To the contrary....the gun is locked up as much as it can be.

[35remington]

Note also the link has to go well past the vertical to start pulling the barrel out of engagement with the slide. The link is not close to that.

I do agree that the photo is useful for supporting my explanation, so it was helpful to post it.

[1006]

I agree, 35, your explain has been very well put, and that is why I said that the photo does not disagree with the physics you explained. I should not have used the word “unlocking” as soon as I did in the description. I should have just referenced the rearward motion of the slide.

It just shows that a properly setup gun’s slide does move before the bullet exits the barrel.

I put the picture on the post to show that if a properly setup gun’s slide moves a little bit, an improperly setup gun’s slide may move too far. And, I believe, that the possible excess movement combined with a poorly cut chamber, might cause the brass to rupture.

[35remington]

An improperly setup gun in terms of barrel fit also cannot see the slide/barrel move too far while the bullet is in the barrel because the weight of slide barrel and hammer dictate how far the slide moves while the bullet is in the barrel. Not how the barrel is fit.

Just clarifying that point as well. Unless there is obvious evidence the barrel and slide have areas milled away to lighten them excessively when used with a heavy bullet the gun will not unlock early....doing so would be pretty dumb. With a 22 TCM the gun could have considerable lightening of the slide and barrel and it still would not be subject to early unlocking.

Barrel fit will influence lug engagement and this can be poorly done but barrel fit does not influence when the link starts pulling the barrel out of battery. Just a point of clarification here as well FWIW. It would be pretty much impossible to fit a barrel to have zero lug engagement as they do not make links and barrel lug feet that short....only standard and oversized long ones. As long as some amount of lug engagement is present, however undesirable minimal engagement is, unlock timing will be largely the same, and in any event well later than when the bullet and pressure has left the barrel.

[35remington]

The other thing not completely understood in the midst of all this “early unlocking” postulation is the lugs don’t instantaneously disengage once the link starts pulling on the barrel. The slide must move further still for the link to get the lugs to disengage from their seats in the slide which approximates 0.2” of slide travel.

This is way, way past the time the bullet has left the barrel and has pressure remaining.....and this with a heavy 230 grain bullet. The gun cannot unlock early. The timing of the event absolutely precludes that from happening. When he lugs disengage from the slide the pressure is long past gone.

[mattw]

Ok, got to spend much more time with the 22TCM this weekend. Problem found, and sorta solved. So, the chamber is cut to deeply and I am not sure that it is not cut at a slight angle as the formed brass still looks odd. I was able to drop my 40 grain cast loads down to 1675 fps with 8.8 grains of LilGun. The action still cycled, but really did not feel right and the cases came out with soot down to and sometimes into the shoulder. I was able to fire 52 rounds of factory new brass and only had a minor split on one!

I now know why she splits nearly 50% of factory rounds shot in it. I am going to call RIA and try and get the barrel replaced. It was in once for feeding issues and once later because it split so many cases. They could not spot this issue? I have only fired a couple of boxes of 2 out of 2 cases as it just was not worth the waste. I have not looked for the problem in so long because I was just flat ticked over the split cases, as a reloader that is something that sets me off. I have fired a bunch of 9mm with it and it performs very well.

Someone asked if the fired case would go back in... heck no. they go about half way back in without sizing.

This is a factory loaded round in my barrrel, notice the bad headspace? Factory new brass fits this way as well.
261942

This is one of my fireformed and sized empties in the same barrel.
261943

Notice the geometry of the center case? That was formed in my chamber and sized.
261944

[Earlwb]

Very interesting, thanks for letting us know about it. Mine seems to headspace Ok though. Not like that.

[mattw]

Very interesting, thanks for letting us know about it. Mine seems to headspace Ok though. Not like that.

Earl, do you find that you split very many cases?

I hope to get it straightened out, mine is a very lower serial number first year hi-cap pistol. Maybe they have their act together now.

[35remington]

Well, for the cases that survive, an anneal and not setting the shoulder back as you are doing seems appropriate. The factory case may be headspacing on either the case mouth or shoulder depending upon how the chamber is cut. From the looks of things and assuming your fired and sized case length is about the same as the factory case length you are accomplishing cartridge shoulder contact with the chamber or close to it and at least reducing some of the slop the factory rounds have.

Fired cases and your correct appearing sized cases have a noticeably shorter neck than factory cases which means the fit of the factory case in the factory chamber is the problem as you surmise. There is some generous clearance it appears.

Not knowing their tolerances I cannot say what is proper but split cases are not good. A poor factory anneal may contribute.

If you anneal it can be overdone so proceed carefully. I have to exercise caution when doing so myself.. Some Tempilaq used judiciously is helpful in avoiding over doing it. If shoulder headspacing is being accomplished and the bullets and dies used allow a crimp that can help hold the bullets in place during feeding with a roll crimp into a cannelure being a good choice if you can manage it.

The reason I mention a crimp is that sometimes annealimg makes proper case neck tension a little more elusive depending upon how it is done.

[onelight]

Interesting I am glad you found the problem I hope thy take care of you.
I am curious to hear why a case fired in that chamber will not re-chamber I hope someone knows.

[35remington]

To solve that particular problem compare fired cartridge diameter at shoulder, midpoint and base above the extractor groove to a sized one that chambers. Then you will have your answer. If it only goes halfway in it is diameter that is causing it rather than anything to do with the shoulder or neck.

[mattw]

I have already submitted the RMA paper work and the same pics of an unfired and fired and sized round. The factory rounds are really hot, the primers come out looking pancaked and most of the firing pin hit is smashed out. In this chamber, I am not surprised that they split. This round is just so much fun, I just want to get to where I can shoot it regularly. It shoots cast very well, 2.5" for me at 25 yards, with my bad eyesight... I now consider that good given the black sights with no dots. If they get it going right, I will add dots to the front and rear sights.

One thing I do not like, the fireformed case do have some of the case wall exposed in the barrel. I am not sure that is a good plan, see the pic above and you will see what I mean.

[mattw]

To solve that particular problem compare fired cartridge diameter at shoulder, midpoint and base above the extractor groove to a sized one that chambers. Then you will have your answer. If it only goes halfway in it is diameter that is causing it rather than anything to do with the shoulder or neck.

With my caliper, I find that the fired brass is much closer to a straight wall case now. The formed round actually should have a decent increase in volume. Would have used a mic, but my daughter dropped my .0001 0-1 and it just is not right now. I need a different one at this point.

[35remington]

All 1911s have some amount of case exposed in the feed ramp area. Whether it is excessive or not depends on the working pressure of the cartridge used and how much brass is exposed. The area of the case near the extractor groove is solid brass and the first part of the case wall is usually pretty thick.

A sectioned case will show how much of the combustion area and brass thickness is adjacent to the relieved area of the chamber if you must know.

Excessive exposure with higher pressures leads to guppy belly brass, a problem sign to be heeded.

[oger]

At one time they had real problems with the dimensions of the brass even on loaded rounds from the factory. Most were just too long (a lot) but who knows if the shoulder was pushed back or not. Try fire forming with lite loads and don't touch the shoulder when resizing.

[mattw]

At one time they had real problems with the dimensions of the brass even on loaded rounds from the factory. Most were just too long (a lot) but who knows if the shoulder was pushed back or not. Try fire forming with lite loads and don't touch the shoulder when resizing.

That is what I did this weekend, I do have to touch the shoulder just a tiny bit, otherwise the neck will not allow the shell into the chamber. So, I am using Lee dies and for the case to fit the chamber I just need the base of the die to touch my RCBS shell holder. If I set the die with any compression, the shoulder is set back to far. I will put a Hornady lock ring on the die and leave it set now, the Lee lock rings do not lock and will end up to long or to short in this case.

[Earlwb]

Earl, do you find that you split very many cases?

I hope to get it straightened out, mine is a very lower serial number first year hi-cap pistol. Maybe they have their act together now.

Only a few with the first box of factory ammo I fired. After that factory or reloads I haven't had any neck splits. So at the time, I thought it was the brass not being properly annealed or something. At the time we were thinking it had to do with where the ammo was manufactured. They were making it in the Phillipines and in the USA. If you look at the boxes you can tell where it was made.

261963

[Earlwb]

I think that my gun's chamber isn't as overdone as yours was. it still headspaces OK. I was going back through my pics when I had mine out at the range a while back. The case shoulder doesn't expand out like yours does but the case neck swells up some. But I didn't think of it as being a problem.
A fired case, a unfired factory round, and a unfired empty case shown here.

261964

[35remington]

That looks reasonable. Note the neck does not shorten so much. Shorter neck equals shoulder blown forward upon firing due to slop between case and chamber allowing room for brass to move forward.

[mattw]

I think that my gun's chamber isn't as overdone as yours was. it still headspaces OK. I was going back through my pics when I had mine out at the range a while back. The case shoulder doesn't expand out like yours does but the case neck swells up some. But I didn't think of it as being a problem.
A fired case, a unfired factory round, and a unfired empty case shown here.

261964

I really wish that my boundaries were that sharp. My shoulder to body and shoulder to neck boundaries are more curved than angular. My 2 cases of ammo are USA made.

[onelight]

If the cartridge is not overloaded and the case is not bulging at the ramp and they can't unlock under pressure why will the fired cases not rechamber ?
Any one have any ideas ?
I am not 1911 guy I have one now and have had a few others but have never found them comfortable to shoot , they just don't work well in my hand so I have never spent much time messing with them.

[mattw]

If the cartridge is not overloaded and the case is not bulging at the ramp and they can't unlock under pressure why will the fired cases not rechamber ?
Any one have any ideas ?
I am not 1911 guy I have one now and have had a few others but have never found them comfortable to shoot , they just don't work well in my hand so I have never spent much time messing with them.

In this case, I think if flat out have a bad chamber. Measuring with my calipers, I seem to have a slightly fat spot in the middle of the case. I am not having extraction problems and no marks on the brass. I might be able to force the case in by hand, but would have to drive it out with a dowel. I would expect a snug fit, but I would have expected it to fit as well. I did not try rotating in all around, it may be a chamber geometry issue, my fired cases are show below... I just do not have a good way to compare cases, other than visual and caliper at the moment.

261974

[35remington]

An eccentrically shaped chamber would fit his description of what is occurring.

[onelight]

Is it even possible to do a measurable chamber cast on a 1911 . that was one of my first thoughts but when I thought about it I could not think of a good way to do it.
Thanks for the response guys .
I get something like this stuck in my head and I can't stop thinking about it.

[35remington]

Sure. Get some Cerrosafe from Brownells or something similar. Exact measurements to “good enuff” are obtained 30 minutes after solidification.

[onelight]

With my caliper, I find that the fired brass is much closer to a straight wall case now. The formed round actually should have a decent increase in volume. Would have used a mic, but my daughter dropped my .0001 0-1 and it just is not right now. I need a different one at this point.


Sure. Get some Cerrosafe from Brownells or something similar. Exact measurements to “good enuff” are obtained 30 minutes after solidification.
With the barrel hood the only place the barrel is as long as the case how do you contain the Cerrosafe to get the full chamber casting ?

[mattw]

At the low melting point of corrosive, I am going to try it with a cardboard dam. I got a pound of it late last week.

[Earlwb]

With the barrel hood the only place the barrel is as long as the case how do you contain the Cerrosafe to get the full chamber casting ?

A little masking tape ought to do it. Cerrosafe is low temperature. it melts when water starts to boil.

[onelight]

Ok thanks guys . You all can go to the teachers lounge and I will go to the play ground.:D

[35remington]

The hood presents a problem in that an attempt to pour the Cerrosafe to the same level means part of the casting is larger than the chamber itself. It is good for all dimensionalities forward of the barrel ramp. Good information can still be obtained. Block the barrel forward of the chamber so the leade can be examined as well.

Warm the barrel beforehand to obtain a better fill out of the casting . Better if it takes a little while to solidify. Try about 140 degrees or so.

[Greg S]

Just wrap some tape around the end of the barrel after pushing a dry patch just past the leade, put the cerro safe and a big metal kitchen spoon and hit it with a crack lighter till melted and poor it in the chamber. Ya might get some funny looks from the cops if you do this in the alley behind your house, LOL. Pop it out and I think it'll even out in an hour for precise measurements.

I believe modeling clay would also work. Put a snake around the rim, clear and oil the breach face and put it the slide and slide it back to the end of the hood. Pulling it out and pour. For an accurate oal, measure the gap betwèen the barrel and hood with a feeler gauge.

[onelight]

Just wrap some tape around the end of the barrel after pushing a dry patch just past the leade, put the cerro safe and a big metal kitchen spoon and hit it with a crack lighter till melted and poor it in the chamber. Ya might get some funny looks from the cops if you do this in the alley behind your house, LOL. Pop it out and I think it'll even out in an hour for precise measurements.

I believe modeling clay would also work. Put a snake around the rim, clear and oil the breach face and put it the slide and slide it back to the end of the hood. Pulling it out and pour. For an accurate oal, measure the gap betwèen the barrel and hood with a feeler gauge.
Funny ,
but the bad thing about about A crack lighter is you can never remember where you left it.

[35remington]

Yep, one hour is actually the correct time for measurement.....looked it up.

[Earlwb]

Cerrosafe is somewhat amazing stuff. It melts at about 165 degrees Fahrenheit (74 degrees C). Cerrosafe contracts during the first 30 minutes of cooling making it easy to pop out of a mold. After about an hour, it has expanded again and then it is measurable for accuracy. Now after a hour it will continue to expand for upwards of 200 hours. But it is at a constant known rate that can be used with calculations still.

[mattw]

An updated... Got an email back from RIA. They want to replace the entire gun for this issue? So now another 4473, 3 day wait and transfer fee. I have a call in to find out what the heck was wrong with it, doubt they will tell me, but we shall see.

[mozeppa]

I recall hearing/reading about Armscor 22 tcm brass having "problems" and the last batch of ammo and brass I purchased, the shop mentioned that this batch was after "they addressed the problems" ... yeah, I know - hearsay and nothing to back it up. Just sharing what I've heard. I've not gotten a chance to shoot mine since my last ammo purchase, so I can't verify anything right now.

THIS!

i bought 2 boxes of their " factory" ammo and split most . bought 100 brass and new projectiles used 11 grains of h-110 powder (as what they originally told me didn't have enough poop to cycle the action)
and neither did the Factory ammo.

and use wilson combat mags for .40 smith & wesson to get past the feeding problem. all is good now.

[roysha]

An updated... Got an email back from RIA. They want to replace the entire gun for this issue? So now another 4473, 3 day wait and transfer fee. I have a call in to find out what the heck was wrong with it, doubt they will tell me, but we shall see.

7. May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-State licensee, or must I have a licensee in
my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if the shipment is across
State lines?

Any person may ship firearms directly to a licensee in any State, with no requirement for another
licensee to ship the firearm. However, handguns are not mailable through the United States Postal
Service and must be shipped via common or contract carrier.(18 U.S.C. §§ 1715). Firearms shipped
to FFLs for repair or any other lawful purpose may be returned to the person from whom received
without transferring the firearm through an FFL in the recipient’s State of residence. FFLs may also
return a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom received. 18 U.S.C.
§ 922(a)(2)(A).

[mattw]

Different serial number... new gun. That is the issue.

[roysha]

Explain what part of the post I highlighted you don't understand. Seriously, if there is something I'm missing or not understanding, I want to know. That is a direct quote from the gestapo book, as current as I could find but that doesn't mean I'm correct. Things may have changed and I just didn't find the most current ruling.

I have had acquaintances that have had guns replaced DIRECTLY, but that was some time ago so perhaps the laws/rules have changed since then.

[mattw]

Explain what part of the post I highlighted you don't understand. Seriously, if there is something I'm missing or not understanding, I want to know. That is a direct quote from the gestapo book, as current as I could find but that doesn't mean I'm correct. Things may have changed and I just didn't find the most current ruling.

I have had acquaintances that have had guns replaced DIRECTLY, but that was some time ago so perhaps the laws/rules have changed since then.

In most states... yes... NOT in ILLINOIS! State law requires "new" firearms to be sold and distributed by an FFL. That way they get the serial numbers on the forms and the state can suck them up anytime they wish.

The Springfield 911 that I just had repaired was shipped directly back to me, it was a repair and the serial number remained the same.

[mattw]

Finally got to pick it up! :)

The new gun is the same part number, but the much older really early production one I had did not have ramped barrels. This one came with fully ramped barrels and a better trigger than the original, which was pretty good. I will get to put rounds thru it this weekend.

[onelight]

I have heard of gun companies that have returned a new gun that they put the same serial # on but that is rare.
You can ask and see if that is an option or if they will reimburse you for what the gun shop charges to file the form , I have heard that some companies will do that also.
But all that said I would be happy if they fix it. And all I had to be out was the filing fee . If you bought it from a local dealer he may do the filing for nothing depends on you gun shop.

[mattw]

Final update, the replacement runs like a champ. Factory rounds headspace perfectly in 9mm and 22 TCM. I only have Lee dies and to get the headspace to be right, they now have to be given about a quarter turn past contact with the shell holder. My existing reloads in new brass cases are really nice shooting, but I am going to have to heat them up a little as they just dribble out of the gun. I do need to find a front sight for it with a dot so I can see it.

[onelight]

That is good news glad they got it fixed for you.