New to Me - M37 Deerslayer

[centershot]

Got a phone call from an old friend a couple days ago, he asked me if I was still interested in his M-37 Deerslayer. WOW! "Yes!" I said, "How much?". We agreed on $400. I didn't think he'd ever part with it but he explained that he'd been hunting with a rifle since they became legal about 10 years ago and at his age (75) he wasn't going to hunt with a shotgun again. I picked it up yesterday, unbeknownst to me the deal also included the original 28" mod. choke barrel! "Another one!?" exclaimed Mrs. Centershot, always bemused with my penchant for nice guns (It's OK, she'll get over it........eventually). It's a '70's era 20 gauge, it shows some wear but overall it's in nice shape. I'll need to get an order in to BPI for hulls, wads and cards, can't wait!

261453

[Hogtamer]

You must be living right, gonna have to change your handle to scattershot!

[centershot]

Scattershot?? Hmmmmm............:) Thanks Hal!

[6pt-sika]

I’ve got a friend that dove hunts each year with a Ithaca 37 20 gauge with the I think it’s a 20” deer barrel . He usually does pretty well I might add well provided the birds are flying . I’d like one in a 16 myself .

[6pt-sika]

Gun looks to have a pretty decent piece of wood in the stock figure wise . And I think your deer barrel is the same length as my friends .

[6pt-sika]

We had a recent manufacture model 37 in 28 gauge in the shop . I was selling for a past prez of our gun club . That was a nice little gun and very light . I should’ve bought it for my wife but I messed around to long and we sold it online .

[richhodg66]

I have two Deer Slayers, a 16 and a 12. The 16 is a pre 855,000 one with a longer barrel and very nice wood. The 12 is a post 855,000 and a short barrel. Both shoot commercial slugs pretty well, but I want to do round ball loads. The .69 caliber balls I tried in the 12 worked pretty well. Haven't figured out how to do it in the 16 yet.

[centershot]

A .662" RB should work well in that 16 ga., Lyman makes the mould.

[richhodg66]

A .662" RB should work well in that 16 ga., Lyman makes the mould.

I was thinking that. I also wondered, but haven't tried yet, if a .60 caliber ball would be a good fit in a standard sized shot cup in the 16.

That Russian outfit selling those slug molds on Ebay seems to be making one for the 16 now, looks like a clone of the Lyman waisted slug.

Not sure why I have these other than I like guns and have always liked Ithaca 37s, Kansas doesn't have a shotgun restriction except for certain parts of Fort Riley for safety reasons. I read somewhere that Ithaca was the first to make a dedicated slug gun and the bores of the Deer Slayers are tighter to facilitate better accuracy than most shotguns of the day had. No idea if that's true or not, but seems to make sense.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ithaca figured out that a little choke in the barrel made slugs more accurate. The Deerslayer barrels are choked from cylinder bore down to about .715 or IC.

Browning followed suit on their Buck Special Barrels and mine is choked down to .715 at the muzzle. I think all this took place in the 60's or 70's

I'm not sure that putting an IC choke tube in your barrel would work the same way, as the transition may throw things off.

My Vang Comped barrels are back bored to .745 the the last 2" are tapered back down to .730 so there is a .015 constriction at the muzzle which acts like a funnel centering the slug as it passes thru. Both of those barrels shoot slugs well.

Randy

[kaiser]

I have a Ithaca 37 in a 16ga with a plain 28" mod bbl, 26" Deer Slayer bbl, and vent rib 26" Imp/Cyl bbl. I purchased the gun in '68 and just recently have had to replace the ejector spring (finally wore out). The Deer Slayer bbl was originally made, according to Ithaca's literature, as one continual dimension from in front of the forcing cone to the end of the barrel. Mine is very accurate with slugs brands it like; its favorite is the Winchester slug. Even though it is a "smooth bore" slug barrel, I have never fired regular shot in this barrel to see how it patterns. Thanks to those of you for the information on round ball loads.

[centershot]

The bore of this 20 gauge slug barrel measures .605" at the muzzle, so .010" under nominal bore size? Twenty gauge bore is .615" IIRC. I also understood that Ithaca's barrel shop bored the Deerslayer barrels straight through, no constriction at the muzzle.

[centershot]

I was thinking that. I also wondered, but haven't tried yet, if a .60 caliber ball would be a good fit in a standard sized shot cup in the 16.

That Russian outfit selling those slug molds on Ebay seems to be making one for the 16 now, looks like a clone of the Lyman waisted slug.

Not sure why I have these other than I like guns and have always liked Ithaca 37s, Kansas doesn't have a shotgun restriction except for certain parts of Fort Riley for safety reasons. I read somewhere that Ithaca was the first to make a dedicated slug gun and the bores of the Deer Slayers are tighter to facilitate better accuracy than most shotguns of the day had. No idea if that's true or not, but seems to make sense.

Rich, the .600" ball might be a little too tight but I'd try it just to see. If so, the .575" RB should be about perfect for use in a shotcup! Depending on the petal thickness you would have somewhere around .010" compression of the petals.

[John Boy]

Still use a 1955 vintage m37 for duck hunting. Still have one Deerslayer with the other 6 Ithaca’s. Had 11 at one time now some extra barrels too

[richhodg66]

I've had quite a few over the years, down to just three now.

I've been on a 16 gauge kick lately and wanted a pump. There was a nice 37 in the Wichita Cabela's and I also had a bid in on a Model 12 on an auction. I bid fairly low on the 12 figuring if I lost it, I'd go get the Ithaca, well, I won the Winchester, so now I get to find out what all the hype over the model 12. It is a very nice gun, just seems heavy compared to an Ithaca.

[Hogtamer]

The extra weight is a plus when it comes to recoil. The Ithaca does punch hard for its class.

[Dan Cash]

A dear friend of mine in NE Ohio has used a 37 Deer Slayer with great success for many years. It is deadly medicine in his hands.

[missionary5155]

Ithaca did make that shotgun correctly for corn cruncher hunters.

[centershot]

The extra weight is a plus when it comes to recoil. The Ithaca does punch hard for its class.

Yes it does! My first shotgun, all those years ago, was a 12 ga. Ithaca 37 with a 26" IC choke barrel. I shot that gun for a number of yeas before I bought an 870. At the time I thought the 870 was heavy, but it fit me better than the 37 did. The first time I shot it I was very surprised how much less recoil it had compared to the 37.

[kaiser]

I too tried the Ithaca 37 in a 12ga because I liked the weight and performance of my 16ga "featherweight" - it was fun to carry, but not fun to shoot! I quickly sent it down the road and bought an 870 and found it to be about the lightest "12" I enjoyed shooting and the heaviest I cared to carry in the field.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I bought my gun n 1973 from a friend for $100. It is a 1940 Model 37. It came with a Cutt's Compensator on it and a Modified Choke Tube. Over the years I was able to piece together all the Choke Tubes from Spreader to XX Full .680. and the Wrench! still looking for the box.

I never had any problems with the recoil probably because the Cutt's actually works pretty well.

After the new wood and Re-Blue this gun is absolutely a joy to behold. I just had it out the other day and I need to go out and shoot it.

I like M37's for field use or Skeet or even Trap, but as a Combat gun they are lacking simply because of the way they have to be loaded. There's only one way to do it and that is up thru the magazine and running the action.

Randy

[centershot]

Randy, which gauge is it? I've thought about refinishing the wood on mine but it's not too bad the way i is, pobl'y just leave 'er be! I bought it to hunt with, another scratch or two won't matter. If I refinished it and THEN scratched it I'd have to pout. And prol'y cry. :(

[kaiser]

You can single load a round into the chamber directly by opening the action and pushing the "pick up" arm to the top of the receiver while slipping the shell into the chamber, close the bolt, and charge the magzine. However, it is awkward, since the gun has to be turned up side down (Utube shows how to do this). You are also right about it being much more slower than slipping in a shell in an 870 or model 12, which can be done without taking the gun from the shoulder.

[beagle]

Good find. I always wanted one as I recall the M37 Deerslayers used by the point men in VN. Handy looking rig and they swore by them with buckshot. I'm envious./beagle

[Drm50]

I would have to say Ithaca 37s were the top for slug accuracy. I think they had a edge on Brn A5.
I hunted Ohio Slug with Brn A5 until we got rifle. The only two things with 37 is the sights are crude. The barley corn and simple rear won’t allow best out of gun. Later guns came with extra black front. I drilled them for Weaver bases. The 37 can be finicky if handloads aren’t about perfect.
I’ve never shot a 16g factory slug gun.

[centershot]

I agree about the factory sights, they are awful, as iron sights go. Luckily for me this one has a 2X Leupold extended eye relief scope mounted on the rear sight base. I love the way it points so naturally!

[W.R.Buchanan]

CTRSHT: Mine is a 12 ga. I almost bought a Deer Slayer Barrel for my gun off Ebay but the Motor Case I have doesn't have room for it and I already have 3 guns I can shoot slugs in

Could you do an ID measurement in the muzzle of your gun so we'll know if Ithaca really did choke those barrels. If it is around .715 then what the Factory told me would be true.

Randy

[nhithaca]

I have 2 each 12ga. Model 37 Deerslayer barrels, one is 20" and the other is 26". Also have a factory 12ga. Deerslayer for a 900 SKB/Ithaca auto (long stroke recoil action) from the late 1960s. All three are smaller than normal 0.728-9" at the muzzle. The 900 barrel is 0.705" and as I remember it one of the Model 37s is 0.710" and the other is 0.715" or so. Looking down the bore from either end there is no "choke" step at all. In fact the 900 barrel is chrome lined and looks just like a mirror. The 900 and one of the 37s have the aftermarket Williams Fire sights on them; much better than the factory sights. Have only shot the 900 w/ a limited number of slugs but using S&Bs it was very easy to put 3 in a cloverleaf @ about 20 yards shooting standing off hand. Too bad they are so hard to come by as they look like a Brenneke and they are not loaded real hot.

[centershot]

CTRSHT: Mine is a 12 ga. I almost bought a Deer Slayer Barrel for my gun off Ebay but the Motor Case I have doesn't have room for it and I already have 3 guns I can shoot slugs in

Could you do an ID measurement in the muzzle of your gun so we'll know if Ithaca really did choke those barrels. If it is around .715 then what the Factory told me would be true.

Randy

Randy,
My gun is a 20 gauge, the muzzle ID mikes .605".

[fcvan]

Although I have never owned a M37 but I learned to shoot Dad's. He's had it since he was 10 so 71 years. 28" FC and would only shoot federal paper shells as it jammed with WW, Rem, or Fed plastic hulls. Dad taught me how to reload when I first started hunting and so I listened to a lot of Merle and Waylon while reloading after school.

I didn't feel like the bottom load only was a hindrance because that is what I learned on. I always felt the bottom eject was a plus while shooting duck from a boat. Also, the empties were at my feet for easy retrieval. Later, like my mom and older brothers, I got a m 870 for my birthday. I still have the original box and papers. I have 3 now, my original wingmaster with 28" FC, a 20 ga my wife won at a Ducks Unlimited dinner and promptly gave me. I also have an express magnum that I bought after my agency got rid of their shotguns. Okay, I bought 5, and gifted the other 4. 3 were express magnums, and 2 were wingmaster police specials with bright bluing and wood stocks, from the 1980s. All were unfired, and at $199 a piece I couldn't pass that by. Still, I'd love a M37, if only for nostalgia. I don't want Dad's, that would mean he was gone.

[rking22]

37s don’t have to be turned upside down to chamber load. Pull the slide back about 3/4 inch, this will lift the fingers to clear and there is room then to slip a shell into the chamber in front of the bolt with your thumb. Close slide and feed two more to the tube, or shoot your trap bird. I see people turning 870s upside down to load the tube, totally unnecessary manipulation. Still 37s are not as easy to chamber load as most any side eject gun, don’t run them empty. That’s why folks need to learn to load with the gun right side up, no reason to go empty. I’ve shot 5 pair flurry stations and had to empty 3 shells after the birds quite coming, great fun!

[fcvan]

37s don’t have to be turned upside down to chamber load. Pull the slide back about 3/4 inch, this will lift the fingers to clear and there is room then to slip a shell into the chamber in front of the bolt with your thumb. Close slide and feed two more to the tube, or shoot your trap bird. I see people turning 870s upside down to load the tube, totally unnecessary manipulation. Still 37s are not as easy to chamber load as most any side eject gun, don’t run them empty. That’s why folks need to learn to load with the gun right side up, no reason to go empty. I’ve shot 5 pair flurry stations and had to empty 3 shells after the birds quite coming, great fun!

Well, with our version of SWAT, we were trained to invert the 870 and double feed into the tube with the muzzle on the left boot, and the stock on the right shoulder, while providing our own cover with the side arm. Double feed belt holders allowed for grabbing 2 at once and feeding 2 at a time. After all, we weren't hunting game birds, we were after jail birds. That, and the primary purpose of a side arm is to fight your way to a long gun. Different training for different purposes I suppose. We were also trained to combat load by lifting the spoon to bypass the magazine tube so we could switch from buckshot to bird shot on the call.

In acknowledgement to your post, bird hunting was quite a different thing. If I didn't get the bird in 2 shots I reloaded at my pleasure. Something about Hemmingway and the hunting of men, so different than sport hunting game. Kind of relieved I am no longer paid to point weapons at humans, glad I never had to drop the hammer. I am also grateful for the 13 or 14 men who decided to head commands rather than push me to do my job at the time.

[centershot]

fcvan, I, also, am grateful you never had to go to the ultimate extreme! Thank you for your service!

[W.R.Buchanan]

At Front Sight we learned how to do loading of rounds and what is known as a "Select Slug" Change over.

Learning how to hold the rounds for manipulation is the key to the whole exercise. See pic.

This method lets you port load the gun or stuff rounds into the magazine using the same hold on the shells.

For the Select Slug Drill, which would be used when a target presents itself at a greater range than bird or buckshot will be effective at, you stuff a Slug Round into the magazine (as long as there's room?) and then rack the slide to chamber the slug and then fire. You are wasting the round in the chamber, but that's just part of the drill.

If the magazine is full you have no choice but to rack the slide and tip the gun over to dump the round in the chamber, and the one of the lifter as well, then you port load the slug. Obviously you are losing 2 rounds in the process so being able to quickly top off the magazine is helpful. However if you are being shot at then port loading and firing single shots is much faster than standing in the open and letting them shoot at you. You only reload an Empty gun when "time and cover permit!"

The turning the gun over and loading two at a time or in the case of those who've mastered it, loading four at a time "Quad Loading" can be accomplished in about 2 seconds.

However This doesn't work all that well on guns that aren't modified specifically to do it and have enough room in front of the trigger guard to get 2 shells end to end at the right angle to go in the hole.. MY A5 doesn't have enough room and the shells have to go in at way to steep an angle, so that gun is a one at a time proposition .

The Mossbergs and 870's are close, but need the edges of the loading port softened a bunch. The Benelli's are the ones that are setup best for this.

You can see John Wick Quad Loading his M4 Benelli in Volume #3

For the rest of us learning how to hold the shells, and port load quickly is worth alot.

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

At Front Sight we learned how to do loading of rounds and what is known as a "Select Slug" Change over.

Learning how to hold the rounds for manipulation is the key to the whole exercise. See pic.

This method lets you port load the gun or stuff rounds into the magazine using the same hold on the shells.

For the Select Slug Drill, which would be used when a target presents itself at a greater range than bird or buckshot will be effective at, you stuff a Slug Round into the magazine (as long as there's room?) and then rack the slide to chamber the slug and then fire. You are wasting the round in the chamber, but that's just part of the drill.

If the magazine is full you have no choice but to rack the slide and tip the gun over to dump the round in the chamber, and the one of the lifter as well, then you port load the slug. Obviously you are losing 2 rounds in the process so being able to quickly top off the magazine is helpful. However if you are being shot at then port loading and firing single shots is much faster than standing in the open and letting them shoot at you. You only reload an Empty gun when "time and cover permit!"

The turning the gun over and loading two at a time or in the case of those who've mastered it, loading four at a time "Quad Loading" can be accomplished in about 2 seconds.

However This doesn't work all that well on guns that aren't modified specifically to do it and have enough room in front of the trigger guard to get 2 shells end to end at the right angle to go in the hole.. MY A5 doesn't have enough room and the shells have to go in at way to steep an angle, so that gun is a one at a time proposition .

The Mossbergs and 870's are close, but need the edges of the loading port softened a bunch. The Benelli's are the ones that are setup best for this.

You can see John Wick Quad Loading his M4 Benelli in Volume #3

For the rest of us learning how to hold the shells, and port load quickly is worth alot.

Randy

Quad loading is one thing that always bothered me about 3 gun. I realize it's just a game, but a game that was supposed to imitate real situations. Unless you know of something better, the only way I know to quad load is from a special carrier built just for it. It also happens that these carriers are impractical for anything but the 3 gun game. I have been practicing loading from my carrier of choice, which is the USMC shotgun pouches. If it wasn't for COVID, I'd be shooting 3 gun with them. There is tons of info out there for loading from side saddles, as well as 3-gun specific belt carriers. Do you know of anything that shows loading from a more secure carry method on the body? I've had to develop my own method. I grab two at a time from the pouch, and then thumb them in individually, kind of like loading quads, but with only one shell each time.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you hold the shells like I showed above (post #34) you can get 3-4 stacked in your hand and then shove them into the mag one at a time.

I use 2-3 of the California Competition 6 Shell Carriers on a Mesh Vest, and it is easy to pull out 1,2,or 3 shells at a time. 4 is tough unless you have really big hands. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2394267180 These things work well for me.

For feeding off a Side Saddle, first you really need one of the Velcro ones as they are the easiest to get shells out of. Then you hang the shells out the bottom about an inch or so. You grasp the shell with your thumb and ring finger to pull it out of the saddle, then it goes directly into the hold shown above which is retaining the shell between your index and pinky fingers with the two other fingers ready to shove the shell sideways into the ejection port or up into the loading port and then shoved home with your thumb. With port loading as soon as the shell goes in, your hand moves forward and closes the bolt and you are ready to fire. The Flange on the back end of the Magpul Fore End helps alot with this as you are literally pushing the slide forward with the rear end of the fore end instead of having to actually grasp it . Once again Economy of Motion.

This all sounds very complicated but with a little practice it becomes easier. I have Dummy Rounds made on Green Hulls that have shot, but no powder and a spent primer for my practice rounds. I use these for Dry Practice with my HD gun. None of my loaded ammo uses Green Hulls, so there's no mix up or Brain Farts ending in holes thru the walls..

This stuff all comes down to Economy of Motion, and it has to be worked out individually and practiced, but with a little training anyone can do it.

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

If you hold the shells like I showed above (post #34) you can get 3-4 stacked in your hand and then shove them into the mag one at a time.

I use 2-3 of the California Competition 6 Shell Carriers on a Mesh Vest, and it is easy to pull out 1,2,or 3 shells at a time. 4 is tough unless you have really big hands. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2394267180 These things work well for me.

For feeding off a Side Saddle, first you really need one of the Velcro ones as they are the easiest to get shells out of. Then you hang the shells out the bottom about an inch or so. You grasp the shell with your thumb and ring finger to pull it out of the saddle, then it goes directly into the hold shown above which is retaining the shell between your index and pinky fingers with the two other fingers ready to shove the shell sideways into the ejection port or up into the loading port and then shoved home with your thumb. With port loading as soon as the shell goes in, your hand moves forward and closes the bolt and you are ready to fire. The Flange on the back end of the Magpul Fore End helps alot with this as you are literally pushing the slide forward with the rear end of the fore end instead of having to actually grasp it . Once again Economy of Motion.

This all sounds very complicated but with a little practice it becomes easier. I have Dummy Rounds made on Green Hulls that have shot, but no powder and a spent primer for my practice rounds. I use these for Dry Practice with my HD gun. None of my loaded ammo uses Green Hulls, so there's no mix up or Brain Farts ending in holes thru the walls..

This stuff all comes down to Economy of Motion, and it has to be worked out individually and practiced, but with a little training anyone can do it.

Randy

That is another specialized shell carrier, unfit for any rugged use. These are what I use. https://www.amazon.com/12-Gage-Ammo-Pouch-Military/dp/B078KKZVFL

Nearly all carriers for rugged use, whether on a belt, or chest rig, or other type, use some kind of elastic or spring to hold shells individually.

[W.R.Buchanan]

These carriers have a spring on either side of the shell that prevents them from falling out when Inverted. Some guys run them with the opening down. I run mine "opening up" so I can withdraw the shells with my thumb and middle two fingers so they are already in position for the proper indexing as shown above.

They are also made from heavy plastic and aren't going to break down easily. Your Canvas Carriers are fine for more limited access and a more secure containment and I'm sure they can take a beating, but I'm not going into Combat in the Desert, and I need quicker access to shells.

Everybody's Kit will vary depending on personal preference and usage..

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

For sure. I choose mine for more hunting orientated purposes. Way too many shells have been lost to the swamp to lesser holders. Even if those 3 gun holders were secure, I wouldn't want to end up with that sticking in my gut while sitting. I also wear mine high, to keep them out of the water.

[curioushooter]

An Ithaca 37 Featherlight 12 gauge with a 20" smooth deerslayer barrel was the first deer I ever took. I later bought a newly manufactured rifled barrel which had slightly better accuracy. In both cases I used 12 gauge Lee slughs in a Federal Wad with Federal Gold Medal hull and 50 grains for Blue Dot per Lee's instructions. Cast of nearly pure lead. Hits like a piano fell on the deer. But hard on the shoulder. After about 5 shots I was done with the thing. It was also long and somewhat clumsy in dense woods. I had fiberoptic sights on it which were adequate to 50 yards. They were a little wanting at 100 being too large and imprecise. In fact the front bead would practically cover a small deer's body at 100.

[centershot]

FIFTY grains of Blue Dot!!! I don't even want to think about that!! You're a better man than me, curiousshooter!

[curioushooter]

That's what the Lee slug instructions say. And I was dumb and young. Believe me a 1oz slug rolling along at 1800 fps from that eruption of blue dot was no joke. It had a hard plastic buttplate. One of those slip on deals was immediately purchased. When I moved from Ohio to Indiana that deerslayer was promptly replaced by a 44 marlin. Now Ohio alllows straightwalls, ushering in a sort of renaissance. But boy, it hits the deer hard. Leaves a 1 inch hole of destruction and snacks them like an anchor was dropped on them.

I burned more blue dot in those years in a few shots than a decade of shooting it in 357/9mm.

I have a couple hundred shells still loaded up that I kept in case I wanted to hunt in Ohio again. I will probably never use them. I gave 20 to my brother in law to use. He returned 18 to me. He only could take 2 of them!

[Mr_Sheesh]

It wasn't the hard plastic buttplate that bugged me, it was the raised letters "Ithacagun" imprinted in my shoulder, personally.

Ithaca seems to be making these again, may make a thread asking about that. I know I liked the M37.

[megasupermagnum]

That's what the Lee slug instructions say. And I was dumb and young. Believe me a 1oz slug rolling along at 1800 fps from that eruption of blue dot was no joke. It had a hard plastic buttplate. One of those slip on deals was immediately purchased. When I moved from Ohio to Indiana that deerslayer was promptly replaced by a 44 marlin. Now Ohio alllows straightwalls, ushering in a sort of renaissance. But boy, it hits the deer hard. Leaves a 1 inch hole of destruction and snacks them like an anchor was dropped on them.

I burned more blue dot in those years in a few shots than a decade of shooting it in 357/9mm.

I have a couple hundred shells still loaded up that I kept in case I wanted to hunt in Ohio again. I will probably never use them. I gave 20 to my brother in law to use. He returned 18 to me. He only could take 2 of them!

They sure are impressive. I know so many think of shotguns as just bird guns, but in my experience they are devastating on big game. There is not an animal that walks this continent that I would hesitate to hunt with a shotgun. When you have a 73 caliber bullet that leaves a 1"+ gaping wound from end to end, it is hard to argue. Sectional density isn't everything, and a slug that doesn't flatten out can penetrate like crazy.

[centershot]

MSM, your point is well taken! Two years ago I started hunting big game with a shotgun again after a hiatus of ten or so years using rifles. A lead round ball moving out at 12-1300 fps isn't a long range proposition but, within 100 yards or so, nothing you shoot with it will live! If you work to make the load accurate, you've got all the penetration you will ever need. I think it was Randy Buchanan who said that the average guy with a shotgun in his hands really doesn't understand how much power he is holding on to! I started my "round ball journey" to find a load that didn't loosen my teeth and (hopefully) was more accurate than I could buy. I've still got my teeth, and my loads are at least as accurate as factory rounds though peobably not moreso. That's OK, the deer can't tell! :)