FFL questions, swapping and selling?

[PNW_Steve]

Hey Everyone,

I did my best to pick a relevant forum for this post. If my aim was off please point me in the right direction.

Some years ago I looked into getting my FFL for a side/home business. I looked into it and found that, at that time, ATF was cracking down on Home based FFL's. I decided against it at that time.

I have done a bit of buying, trading and selling a few guns here and there to support the shooting kitty. Now that Washington requires an FFL to process private transfers and collects sales tax as well. Paying the local FFL $35 and sales tax on the purchase price on every purchase and sale has killed my ability to make good trades.

I got curious and looked into the FFL requirements today. From what I have found so far, ATF is now friendly to home FFL's as long as they meet certain requirements. Mostly dealing with local zoning and business requirements. Apparently in the past many of the home FFL's were operating in violation of local requirements.

I have started the "due diligence" process and checking with the city and county etc. It looks like the only requirements that I don't have already is a gun safe in my shop. They did offer some recommendations as well regarding parking, lighting and posting my address on the building.

I am looking at dealing in a small inventory of used and add a little new inventory as I can as well as offering transfers for less than the local FFL and offering pickups in the evening and weekends by appointment. Not a full time gig. Just something to keep me in boolits :)

Has anyone here done something similar? How has it worked out? What sort or surprises have you encountered?

Thanks.

S.

[HATCH]

If you live in a town or a city you may have problems getting a business license for your home

[PNW_Steve]

I had another thought.... I wonder if delivery would be legal?

We don't have a "gun store" in the county. The near one is about 70 miles away. The local lumber yard will order for you or receive your online purchases for $35. They close at 5:30pm on weekdays and 12:30pm on Saturday.

If I were able to deliver in the evening for the same price or pick up at my shop for $25 I think that I could do enough transfers to help support my addiction. Gun sales would just make it better.

[PNW_Steve]

If you live in a town or a city you may have problems getting a business license for your home

"I have started the "due diligence" process and checking with the city and county etc. It looks like the only requirements that I don't have already is a gun safe in my shop. They did offer some recommendations as well regarding parking, lighting and posting my address on the building."

[shooterg]

Same county that will let a hairdresser operate in a basement might not give a firearms dealer a permit.
Whether or not a kitchen table dealer was in compliance with any local ordnance was never a concern until Clinton wanted FFL's numbers decreased. As I remember, one of the reasons the NRA went along with the 1968 GCA was that us "little folks" would still be able to obtain FFL's easily and economically. Not so anymore. Boy was I PO'd. Turned 18 and was ready to start ordering guns !

[PNW_Steve]

Same county that will let a hairdresser operate in a basement might not give a firearms dealer a permit.
Whether or not a kitchen table dealer was in compliance with any local ordnance was never a concern until Clinton wanted FFL's numbers decreased. As I remember, one of the reasons the NRA went along with the 1968 GCA was that us "little folks" would still be able to obtain FFL's easily and economically. Not so anymore. Boy was I PO'd. Turned 18 and was ready to start ordering guns !

"I have started the "due diligence" process and checking with the city and county etc. It looks like the only requirements that I don't have already is a gun safe in my shop. They did offer some recommendations as well regarding parking, lighting and posting my address on the building."

I have looked into the costs and it is, with one possible exception, if I want a 7 then I would need to make sure that I can get an exemption to ITAR. I am pretty sure that I have that worked out. If I don't manage to avoid ITAR then I would need to stick with a class 1.

To be clear: I have worked through any local requirements as far as zoning and licensing.

[Black Powder Bill]

Check and register as an at home business. Many locals you can do this with no fees. I know in NY and here in GA where I am at that how it worked.
You'll need a sales tax number.

The ATF wasn't hard on home based business the political climate was. States found out they were loosing sales tax & started requiring payment and filing.

Deliveries , you must sign for them or another adult at the address.

A safe ,use then one you have just label all guns that are for sale.

I'd not put a sign on the house. Check around but be stealthy about it.




Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

[Trophy Tom]

My only reservations for becoming a home FFL
Is it makes you a highlighted target for would be gun thief’s.
Be sure you want that kind of exposure before embarking on your journey.
Be safe. But sounds fun. You would also get to buy wholesale. Another advantage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[thraxx]

The guy I do my transfers with started in his basement. He's now got a full time shop and two employee's in a matter of a few years.

[deltaenterprizes]

I had another thought.... I wonder if delivery would be legal?

We don't have a "gun store" in the county. The near one is about 70 miles away. The local lumber yard will order for you or receive your online purchases for $35. They close at 5:30pm on weekdays and 12:30pm on Saturday.

If I were able to deliver in the evening for the same price or pick up at my shop for $25 I think that I could do enough transfers to help support my addiction. Gun sales would just make it better.

Delivery is illegal, transfers can only be done at your licensed premises, the address on the license!
I had a part time FFL for 15 years at my house.
The only exception is at gun shows.

[PNW_Steve]

The guy I do my transfers with started in his basement. He's now got a full time shop and two employee's in a matter of a few years.

:) Are you trying to discourage me? :)

I divested myself of employees for a reason. My goal is just a part time gig.

[PNW_Steve]

Delivery is illegal, transfers can only be done at your licensed premises, the address on the license!
I had a part time FFL for 15 years at my house.
The only exception is at gun shows.

Thank you. I had hoped that it would be permitted. That would give me one more thing that the lumber yard won't do for customers.

Lower cost transfers and pickup appointments in the evening and on weekends will have to be enough.

I am shopping some older large safes that take a forklift to move. That, bolted securely to the floor, gives me adequate peace of mind.

If somebody is determined enough to break into the deadbolted, alarmed and videoed shop and succeeds in stealing my 1600 pound safe then I guess that I will have to file an insurance claim.

Speaking of insurance, I was surprised that i could get a home business ryder for my homeowners policy considering the nature of the business. The limits are no stellar but i am not going to have a store full of guns to insure. IIRC: the max payout for a single claim is $20k with a $1k deductable. My insurance agent was surprised as well. She told me when I asked that they were unlikely to approve the application because of the nature of the business. Surprise! I am already insured. I have that business ryder for when I was showing at events. We added the FFL business and it was approved.

[NyFirefighter357]

LGS around here charge $75-$125 a transfer. I thought about a C&C at about the same time they were giving the small guys problems. I figured it wasn't worth the attention. Here in NY you can do a private transfer but need a background check. Law states the back ground check can't be over $10 but the agent doesn't have to do background checks for you. They will gladly do a transfer at the higher prices. In NY you can't loan a buddy a gun without a background check, the kicker is he can't give it back to you with out you getting one too.

[PNW_Steve]

LGS around here charge $75-$125 a transfer. I thought about a C&C at about the same time they were giving the small guys problems. I figured it wasn't worth the attention. Here in NY you can do a private transfer but need a background check. Law states the back ground check can't be over $10 but the agent doesn't have to do background checks for you. They will gladly do a transfer at the higher prices. In NY you can't loan a buddy a gun without a background check, the kicker is he can't give it back to you with out you getting one too.


$75-$125..... Dinner and flowers first??

We now have a similar law in WA now. Unless you are immediate family you have to do the background check for $35.

[smithnframe]

Good luck...........you better have a very large selection of used guns cause you won't survive on transfer fees and new gun sales!

[PNW_Steve]

Good luck...........you better have a very large selection of used guns cause you won't survive on transfer fees and new gun sales!

No problem. I am already surviving.

A handful of transfers on their own will cover my very limited expenses. Rent, utilities and insurance are already covered. I won't have any labor costs and marketing cost will be insignificant. Licensing costs are minimal.

Did I miss anything?

If I needed to rent a space and support all of the related expenses it wouldn't play here. There is not enough business here to support it.

[RickinTN]

I have done a bit of buying, trading and selling a few guns here and there to support the shooting kitty.

I would be very cautious about posting such a statement in a public forum. Many would construe this as "participating in the business" without a license which is against federal law.
Just trying to help,
Rcik

[waksupi]

I would advise against putting any gun related signs on your building. There are 30+ gun manufacturing businesses within 20 miles of me. Aside from a barrel company, you may see a business name, but nothing to make them visible as manufacturers. Regular retailers of course are known and posted.

[PNW_Steve]

I would advise against putting any gun related signs on your building. There are 30+ gun manufacturing businesses within 20 miles of me. Aside from a barrel company, you may see a business name, but nothing to make them visible as manufacturers. Regular retailers of course are known and posted.

The city recommended that I post the address prominently on the building. Nothing about business signage. There will be no "please rob me" signs.

[AnthonyB]

I looked at this, but the cost for the tax number was prohibitive for me.
Tony

[PNW_Steve]

I looked at this, but the cost for the tax number was prohibitive for me.
Tony

The fee here is not bad. Last time I did it I left about $150 at the Department or Revenue. If I start out strictly doing transfers then my projected revenue will be low enough that I am unlikely to have to put down a deposit. Even if I have to put down a deposit, it is just that. I will get it back after a certain period of operation.

[HATCH]

the funny thing is that in SC you can ship a firearm (long gun) in state person to person and its legal. Its treated as a FTF or at least what I was told.
As a dealer you are bound by federal rules.

[PNW_Steve]

the funny thing is that in SC you can ship a firearm (long gun) in state person to person and its legal. Its treated as a FTF or at least what I was told.
As a dealer you are bound by federal rules.

It used to be that way in WA. Not any more. You need an FFL involved in pretty much anything except loaning a gun to an immediate family member.

As a dealer you are bound by federal laws AND the laws of your state.