H335 in 45-70: Very appropriate.

[44Blam]

I bought an 8lb keg of H335 recently and was thinking it was more appropriate for my Marlin 1895 than Varget is.

My testing with my favorite load of varget yeilds an average speed of 1820 and an ES of 28...

Well, today I learned that H335 IS far more appropriate. I loaded 6 loads based on Lee's Modern reloading (5 rounds each). My boolit is the NOE 460-396 RF. I powder coat these and they are a gas check design. I use the cup point pin so they end up coming out around 385 grain with my alloy.

My rifle is the run of the mill modern Marlin 1895 with a 22" barrel.

So, all 30 round were within a 2" group at 50 yards - there was just a big old hole in the target. This indicates that the accuracy is good even though I know I pulled a couple shots. We did our testing after shooting trap all afternoon -- so I was tired.

I got some really interesting #s:

Load # Grain Shot 1 Shot 2 Shot 3 Shot 4 Shot 5 AVG ES MIN MAX
1 52 1938 1934 1944 1948 1944 1941.6 14 1934 1948
2 53 1957 1964 1953 1967 1962 1960.6 14 1953 1967
3 54 1963 1971 1978 1982 1985 1975.8 22 1963 1985
4 55 1987 2006 2011 2012 2002 2003.6 25 1987 2012
5 56 2031 2035 2046 2044 2147 2060.6 116 2031 2147
6 57 2177 2162 2200 2196 2191 2185.2 38 2162 2200

My chrono claimed that we were under high pressure: 1018 hg and it was 92 degress outside.

Anyway, a 385 grain boolit going 2200 feet / sec gives me about 4100 ft/lbs of energy... Where I come from that is known as "a whole lot". 1950 fps is still 3200 ft/lbs - which is a lot of energy as well... My ft/lb calc is from here: http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php

I kind of liked how the 52/53 grain boolits felt (recoil wise) and the 57 grainer was bordering on "not fun".

Fun day at the range!

[clemje]

How did the cases/primers look with the 57 grain load? You were averaging 20-ish FPS increase across the board with your 1 grain increase increments... then it jumped 120 FPS @ 57. That tells me there's a pressure spike. Tread carefully! :smile:

If accuracy was good @ 52-53, I'd fiddle with it some more in that range--EXCELLENT ES numbers!

[725]

Great report. Thank you. Never used H-335 for the .45-70, but now I might just have to.

[44Blam]

How did the cases/primers look with the 57 grain load? You were averaging 20-ish FPS increase across the board with your 1 grain increase increments... then it jumped 120 FPS @ 57. That tells me there's a pressure spike. Tread carefully! :smile:

If accuracy was good @ 52-53, I'd fiddle with it some more in that range--EXCELLENT ES numbers!

In all the loads I tested the accuracy was good and the burn was complete and clean. There aren't any major signs of pressure in the primers/cases.

One interesting thing is that there were other strange things happening on the higher end. On the 5th set, if we throw out the max round at 56 grain the actual average is 2039 and the 5 round is actually 100 fps OVER the other rounds. It made the ES of that group go from 15 to 116! It is possible that I threw a 57 grain charge on that one, but I was being very careful (as they are test loads - all loads weighed on a beam scale to as exact tolerance as I can get) so I don't think that would have happened. I think that it was just at the edge of getting into a higher pressure range. And that 57 grain load was firmly in there. I will say the 57 grain loads were very stout and not much fun to shoot. Today my shoulder is sore - could be because we shot a few hundred rounds of 12ga or more likely it was that last row of 45s...

I think I am going to probably make a few that are even a little lower and see if I still get a good burn and good accuracy - maybe 50 and 51 grain. Just to see where they are. But I think the ticket is in that 52-53 grain range.

Funny thing, I shot that first group and looked at my buddy and said, "Well, I think I found my load, but we'll shoot the rest just to be sure.

I have loaded quite a bit of both Varget and H4198 in that rifle. I think I actually like H335 in the 45-70 a bit better at this point. Next thing is to take some of those varget and some H335 out to the long range and see if the trajectory is much different.

[Texas by God]

What primer did you use and how was the muzzle flash? It’s one of those “ keep it around” powders for me since I began loading because it was accurate and cheap. The Fireball was a bonus!

[44Blam]

What primer did you use and how was the muzzle flash? It’s one of those “ keep it around” powders for me since I began loading because it was accurate and cheap. The Fireball was a bonus!

Primer is Winchester Large Rifle. I have a few boxes of these (5000 ct boxes -- got a deal a while back) so I'm kind of locked in... The barrel is 22", I didn't notice the muzzle flash but it was a very clear hot day here in Southern California.

[gpidaho]

44Blam Thanks for the post. I just picked up a #8 jug of H335 myself. Mostly to feed the 223s but I do own a Henry 45-70 that's pretty fond of the Noe 460-405-RF RG2 Hollow point, cup point or just RF. I'll give the loads a try. Thanks again. Gp

[44Blam]

So, I took my load 52.5 grain in a 396 grain boolit to the long range with my new Montana Sight.
I was able to hit targets out to about 625 yards with that load, but I ran out of ammo. I got too focused on knocking over silhouette hogs at 400 yards... :-/

But I got home and despite having great accuracy, I had a fair amount of lead in the barrel. These boolits were cruising - about 1950 fps. So, I got out the Lewis remover and got my barrel cleaned. After a lot of elbow grease...

I figured I needed to slow things down a bit. Well, I got a nice new load that is much more pleasant to shoot: 48 grain... I'll do some increments +/- between 47 and 49 to see if there is a nice harmonic... 48 grain sends my boolit at about 1750 fps and has a spread of about 22 fps. Had good accuracy and I had ZERO lead. ;)

[Thin Man]

I have been using H335 in a few calibers and have always been well satisfied with the group sizes and velocities it brings. The first to make me smile was a Marlin 30A in 30-30. The load included a Sierra 125 flat point bullet driven fast and gave the tightest groups this rifle has ever produced. That bullet travels completely through a deer's chest side-to-side. Also came loads for 308 and 243 that did everything I could ask of them. The more I use this powder the more I like it, so now the game is to experiment in 45-70. Thanks for reporting your results with the ladder test.

[Larry Gibson]

H335 is an excellent powder and is my "go to" powder for my 52-55 gr jacketed bullet 223/5.56 loads along with 125 - 150 gr jacketed bullets in the 30-30 and 308Ws.

With cast, H335 is excellent as long as you have the bullet mass and pressure level so it ignites and burns efficiently. With your 45-70 loads that's where you are. However, when loaded down in "reduced" loadings many times H335 does not ignite and/or burn efficiently. The use of the WLR primer or other magnum primer is definitely recommended.