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Potsy
11-24-2008, 08:05 AM
So I'm still working on a load for my #1 .45-70. I feel like it's turning into a soap opera.

I'm using Starline Brass & a 350 grain Ranch Dog Mold.
I decided on 3031 powder because I wanted to fling these Ranch Dog's at or close to 2000 fps and bought a pound.

I dumped 55 grains (below Hogdon's '07 manual "lever action" starting load of 56.5 grains for a 350 grain Hornady Jacketed bullet), using a funnel with a 6" drop tube, and nearly had to stand on the press handle (I use a Rock Chucker, so there wasn't a leverage issue) to get the bullets to seat to the crimp groove.

Matter of fact I had to run them into to die a couple of times because on the first run, when the shell came out of the die you could see the bullet easing back out of the case!

I did trim .050" off the cases to get the Ranch Dogs to chamber in the short-throated Ruger, but I can't see where I would have lost that much capacity.
The same manual lists 60 grains with the same Hornady bullet and 55 grains with a 400 grain Speer, but where I'm at, I can't see how they fit that much powder in the case.

I guess my question is, is this normal with 3031, or does something sound rotten in Denmark? Do any of the other powders in that burn range have a little less bulk?

C A Plater
11-24-2008, 08:31 AM
In the .45-70 IMR3031 does fill the cases at those levels. Starline brass may be a bit thicker and I think the drop tube may make the charge less dense than normal. In case full loads of IMR stick type propellant, I will tap the cases to get the powder to settle some. The spring back is typical of compressed IMR3031 loads and requires a good crimp to keep things in place. Reloader 7 has a similar burn profile and has less bulk as would any ball powders.

wiljen
11-24-2008, 09:40 AM
Varget or H335 may be better choices for getting to 2000 fps without having to stand on the press handle. I've run into the same issue using 3031 and the 450gr lee.

jackley
11-24-2008, 11:44 AM
You may way to check your scale. I load 3031 alot hotter then that. Just went out to the shack and checked and had no problem seating the boolit with alot more powder with out a drop tube. With a 2 foot drop tube I easily got 64grs in.

Jerry

Potsy
11-24-2008, 11:51 AM
Well, I got some loaded.
I stayed with the drop tube, poured s-l-o-w-l-y, and tapped cases repeatedly.
Then after a couple of runs up in the seater die, I'd leave the case in it while I weighed the next charge.
I checked the scale with a seirra rifle bullet (.257 117 grn Gameking) and it was spot on.
Heading to the range if their open today. I'll chrony them and if anything looks really weird then I'll know somethings up.
I'll post all the details of this little project and the preliminary range results over on Single Shots tonight.
Thanks for all the help.

jackley
11-24-2008, 12:03 PM
I forgot to mention I was using R-P cases measuring 2.1053.

Jerry

BABore
11-24-2008, 01:52 PM
Winchester brass has the greatest capacity, followed by Star Line, then Remington. There's a 3-5 grain spread between them. Also, beware of the Star Line nickel plated brass. It will raise pressure considerably due to its hardness.

As an alternative powder, I would suggest Hodgdon H322 lit by Federal 210M primers. You may also want to apply some high quality lube to those RD boolits. I've found them to be velocity challenged in all of my rifles.

Bluehawk
11-25-2008, 12:03 PM
I have been using 3031 in 45/70s for almost 25 years now. Never had any problems with that much filling EXCEPT with Federal cases which have the lowest capacity than any of them .
Still 55 Grains of 3031 in federal cases with 350 grain hornady or speer bullets is no problem
I have just finished loading Ranch Dog bullets of the 350 size ( Mine come out with my alloy at 358 w/ GC and lube about 365) I shot some with 51 grians of 3031 and s got some very nice groups PROBABLY around 1700+ fps ( Not chronographed due to broke Chrony ) I also loaded 54/6 of Varget PROBABLY slightly less pressure than the 3031 for PROBABLY a few FPS more and I got better accuracy I'll be hunting with the Varget loaded ones next week .
Back to 3031 I have never gone above 56 Grains with 400 Grain J bullets . I have gone to 57 grains with cast 405s and one lee mold bullet measuring 442 grains I do not shoot near thos loads any more with cast the accuracy does not hold up in those velocity ranges with either PB or GC bullets IN MY EXPERIENCE. Ranch dog 425s ( my alloy w/Gc 438 ) likes 41 grains of 3031 a lot.
ALSO in all the years loading that cartridge with 3031 I have had far greater success using Fed 210M primers than any other

JesterGrin_1
11-25-2008, 01:56 PM
I use the RD 350Gr with 52.0Gr of H-322 ,Rem Case,Fed 210 primer that will give 3/4 groups at 100 yards or better if I do my part. And these THUMP out at about 1850 to 1900 FPS out of my Marlin Guide Gun. You might also look into Benchmark powder as well. I have not used it but have heard very good reports of its use in this round. Good Luck


Winchester brass has the greatest capacity, followed by Star Line, then Remington. There's a 3-5 grain spread between them. Also, beware of the Star Line nickel plated brass. It will raise pressure considerably due to its hardness.

As an alternative powder, I would suggest Hodgdon H322 lit by Federal 210M primers. You may also want to apply some high quality lube to those RD boolits. I've found them to be velocity challenged in all of my rifles.

Bluehawk
11-26-2008, 10:12 AM
Hey Jester I like your flags Are you the POTE ?

JesterGrin_1
11-26-2008, 12:06 PM
Hey Jester I like your flags Are you the POTE ?

lol. Nope not a POTE. And do not wish to be one lol. The Directors Staff is as far as I am going to go lol. :)

Bluehawk
11-26-2008, 03:12 PM
Provost and Legion of Honor Member No higher for me either ;)