Shipping non-gun?

[Tatume]

Gary Reeder says "I will need your revolver BUT I don’t need the whole thing. Take the cylinder out and ship it as a “non gun” and no problems."

https://www.reedercustomguns.com/reddotbase.htm

Anybody know the background on this? The serial-numbered frame is the "gun."

[jdfoxinc]

If you are shipping the frame it is a gun. Shipping the cylinder not.

[elmacgyver0]

Gary Reeder says "I will need your revolver BUT I don’t need the whole thing. Take the cylinder out and ship it as a “non gun” and no problems."

https://www.reedercustomguns.com/reddotbase.htm

Anybody know the background on this? I thought the serial-numbered frame was the "gun."

The frame itself IS the gun in the eyes of the BATFE.
You may be able to ship to him if he is an FFL, don't know about that.
He is definitely wrong about it being a "non gun".
If you don't believe me just try to buy a bare AR receiver.
If you are able to direct ship to him, you WILL be required to pick it up at an FFL.
Ever buy a gun from an FFL on line? They are always required to send it to an FFL where you have to fill out a 4473 form.

[El Bibliotecario]

I wouldn't want to deal with someone who either encourages illegal behavior or is ignorant of the laws governing their business, but that's just me.

[Winger Ed.]

I thought the serial-numbered frame was the "gun."

You are exactly right.

However;
If its a curio or relic, moving it around is a little different than new/modern firearms.

[Chris S]

There is also a caveat regarding the shipment of your own gun for repairs.
FWIW
Chris

[megasupermagnum]

There is also a caveat regarding the shipment of your own gun for repairs.
FWIW
Chris

This is how it is here. I don't know if all states apply. You may ship directly to and from an FFL. Shipping a gun is a lot easier than shipping ammo, nobody needs to know what is inside. Definitely pay for the insurance.

[Art in Colorado]

Gary Reeder says "I will need your revolver BUT I don’t need the whole thing. Take the cylinder out and ship it as a “non gun” and no problems."

https://www.reedercustomguns.com/reddotbase.htm

Anybody know the background on this? I thought the serial-numbered frame was the "gun."

If it has the Serial Number on it it can not be shipped as a non gun. If Reeder does not know this I would not trust him to do work on my firearm. I used to look at his Forum years ago and I found he and its members were not to my tastes. Language and pictures posted of women were distasteful.

[smithnframe]

If it has a serial number it's a gun. The frame has the serial number.

[Burnt Fingers]

Of course it's legal for me to ship the revolver directly to him, with or without the cylinder. And he can legally ship it directly to me. I think what Reeder is getting at is UPS and FedEx rules. Do they differentiate between a revolver with the cylinder and one without? Do they relax the "next day" rule if the gun is inoperable?

No they don't.

It's a GUN. It has a serial number.

You might get away with it, but if you need to collect on the insurance you're screwed if you didn't follow their rules.

[Buzz Krumhunger]

“If you are able to direct ship to him, you WILL be required to pick it up at an FFL.“

That hasn’t been my experience. I have had several handguns I had to send off for warranty or other work, I shipped them via UPS overnight, and they were returned directly to me via UPS or Fedex. Rugers, Glocks, and most recently, one made by Springfield Armory. Late last year.

If you have an FFL send it in for you, my experience has been that it will be shipped back to that FFL and you’ll have to fill out a new 4473 to take possession of it again.

As to the presence of a serial number causing a part to be classified a firearm, I’m not sure that’s correct, either. Glock barrels have serial numbers and are not restricted as “firearms” for shipping purposes, at least as far as Federal and Texas law are concerned.

As to state laws in other states, I guess anything is possible.

I agree that there’s something fishy with what Reeder supposedly said about removing the cylinder from a serial numbered frame rendering that frame a non-gun. Perhaps the OP misconstrued what was said.

[M-Tecs]

Normally the frame or receiver is required to have a serial number since the passage of the 1968 Gun Control Act. The AR type rifles don't contain the breechblock so this is being challenged.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/479.11

Frame or receiver. That part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel.

[M-Tecs]

https://johnpierceesq.com/may-a-gunsmith-or-manufacturer-ship-a-firearm-they-have-repaired-directly-to-the-owner/

7. May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-State licensee, or must I have a licensee in
my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if the shipment is across
State lines?
Any person may ship firearms directly to a licensee in any State, with no requirement for another
licensee to ship the firearm. However, handguns are not mailable through the United States Postal
Service and must be shipped via common or contract carrier.(18 U.S.C. §§ 1715). Firearms shipped
to FFLs for repair or any other lawful purpose may be returned to the person from whom received
without transferring the firearm through an FFL in the recipient’s State of residence. FFLs may also
return a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom received. 18 U.S.C.
§ 922(a)(2)(A).

[Tatume]

I've written to Gary Reeder. Maybe he will explain himself. If he answers, I'll post here.

[NSB]

All you need is a few of these "get around" ideas to get caught and no one will ship firearms anymore. A firearm has a serial number on it, and has since 1968 as stated above. The idea of removing the cylinder of a revolver and shipping it separately is glaringly dumb. You're still shipping the revolver in two packages and the one with the serialized frame is illegal for you to ship as anything but a handgun. Note: the slide, frames, and barrels of all Glock handguns have serial numbers on them. However, the one that counts is the one on the frame. If you think you have a Glock without a serial number on the frame, take the grips off and look again....they all have a serial number on the frame somewhere.

[reddog81]

Taking the cylinder out of a revolver doesn’t change anything relating to how it qualifies for shipping. The frame is the gun no matter how many pieces you remove. Anyone that tells you otherwise is either ignorant of the law or just pulling your leg in hopes for your $$$.

It’d probably work 99% to just ship it. No one will ever be the wiser but that doesn’t mean you’re following the shippers rules.

[str8wal]

I have shipped a gun directly to Ruger for repair and had it shipped directly back to me after repairs. Perhaps this applies here?

[Burnt Fingers]

The "firearm" serialized part is what the BATFE says it is.

If you ship a firearm direct to a FFL for work or repair they can ship it back to you....under Federal Law. Some Left Leaning states may have more restrictive laws, sucks to be you if you live in one of those.

[Biggin]

I have shipped a gun directly to Ruger for repair and had it shipped directly back to me after repairs. Perhaps this applies here?

I've done the same. As long as it is too the manufacturer I know that's legal. Not sure about a gunsmith.

[Burnt Fingers]

I've done the same. As long as it is too the manufacturer I know that's legal. Not sure about a gunsmith.

As long as you ship to a FFL and it's for work or repair, they can send it directly back to you. Under Federal law any way.

[Jniedbalski]

The 9 mm Hi-Point I sent back for repair I could send it to them and they shipped it back to me. They told me to take it appart and label it as machine parts on the outside. I shipped it regular shipping ups and not the two day air. That is how they told me to ship it. Don’t know if other states are different. This has been 4 or 5 years ago

[fatelk]

Most of the time the issue isn't so much with who can send it, but how. It's pretty clear (most states at least) that an unlicensed individual can legally ship a handgun to a gunsmith for repair, however, an FFL can legally ship it USPS Priority for $8, whereas a non-FFL has to use UPS or Fedex overnight, for more like $75. You can get a decent discount on that if you know how.

Added: the UPS next day air I think is a UPS requirement, not law. I don't THINK that it would be illegal to send it UPS Ground, but the law does say that you must let the carrier know that it is a firearm, and if the carrier's policy is expedited only, it's a bit of a catch-22, isn't it?

[gwpercle]

When my Ruger 10/22 needed repairs from a hot overloaded 22LR round (Winchester Wildcat ammo)
Ruger sent me a shipping box . I took it to local Mail Center (my wife works there) and one of the mail carriers , forgot which ...picked it up , brought it to Ruger , Ruger did repairs and returned repaied rifle to me . I didn't go through a FFL .
Now this is Louisiana and it was a rifle but that's how the deal went down and I'm not in jail .
Gary

[Burnt Fingers]

When my Ruger 10/22 needed repairs from a hot overloaded 22LR round (Winchester Wildcat ammo)
Ruger sent me a shipping box . I took it to local Mail Center (my wife works there) and one of the mail carriers , forgot which ...picked it up , brought it to Ruger , Ruger did repairs and returned repaied rifle to me . I didn't go through a FFL .
Now this is Louisiana and it was a rifle but that's how the deal went down and I'm not in jail .
Gary

There's only ONE mail carrier. That's the USPS. The others are common carriers. No FFL is required to return a firearm to a service center/gunsmith and have it returned to you under Federal Law.

[Burnt Fingers]

Here's the low down on legally shipping a firearm.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/how-to-ship-firearms.651375/

This was written by a FFL.

[Tatume]

Gary Reeder says "I will need your revolver BUT I don’t need the whole thing. Take the cylinder out and ship it as a “non gun” and no problems."

Anybody know the background on this? The serial-numbered frame is the "gun."

I've written to Gary Reeder. Maybe he will explain himself. If he answers, I'll post here.

Hello Folks,

Nobody was able to answer the question, including Gary Reeder. However, it appears some some people benefited from the clearing up of other, related misconceptions. So, that's a good thing. If I ever learn what Reeder was thinking of, I'll post a follow up. As it stands, I think he simply didn't know what he was talking about.

[kerplode]

As it stands, I think he simply didn't know what he was talking about.

Given what he told you, that's pretty clearly the case. He should honestly know better and should be familiar with the laws/rules that govern his business.

The correct info was provided by several in this thread. Anything with a serial number is a firearm under the law and must be shipped as such. A normal person can send a firearm to a manufacturer or FFL via a common carrier, but it must be declared and follow their shipping procedures (i.e. air for handguns, etc). Manufactureres/FFLs may return your firearm to you directly if your state/locality permits it. FFLs may ship firearms by USPS, but Joe Public cannot. Sending a firearm by USPS or another carrier but concealing the package contents is asking for a whole bunch of trouble you don't want any part of...

[Tatume]

As I said, I agree with you. This closely related information is correct, and is clearly useful to some here who were misinformed. But it is not an answer to the question I asked, which essentially is "what was he thinking?"

[kerplode]

As I said, I agree with you. This closely related information is correct, and is clearly useful to some here who were misinformed. But it is not an answer to the question I asked, which essentially is "what was he thinking?"

Got it!

Yeah, no idea what he's thinking...He's gonna end up getting one if his customers in a bunch of trouble with his ill-informed advice.