Should I get it restored?

[Kev18]

I have my Winchester 1886 mfg 1888-89. Its my favorite rifle, and the first one I bought. Il hopefully never sell it. So monetary value isnt super important although id like it to remain the way it came out the factory. Even if they are a few pits left on it after restoration I really wouldnt care.
I bought an extra lever and forend cap so that I could add a sling mount and make a large lever loop. I didnt want to touch any factory parts.

My question is. do you guys think its worth restoring? Just looking for different opinions. Im not a fan of the super new looking restorations. I would just like abit of pitting gone and rust to disappear. Im not sure how it would look all blued and fancy. I dont like that look, most 1886 iv'e seen have been restored with a CCH. But my rifle didn't have that option when it came out the factory.
https://i.imgur.com/qVbuacx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/N5hWtU6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hIMMeVQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/N4o6SU6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LaJQto7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SaoEUyW.jpg

[ascast]

my $0.02 shoot it as is. You will never get all the pits out or filled. The case hardening is already compromised by the polishing. It is generally 20 to 40 thousands deep. You might have it re-hardened. I would shoot as is.

[Winger Ed.]

How much something is worth doesn't matter until you sell it.

That's one I'd never sell either, so it's monetary value is sort of off the table.
I'd take care, and baby it along just like it is.

Even if you planned to fix it up and sell it-
It's like a $500 car that needs new tires.
After buying new tires, its still only worth $500.

[GBertolet]

If you want to spend the money, send it to Doug Turnbull Restorations. He can work wonders, and have it look better than new. You will have a real heirloom then.

[Mk42gunner]

To me that rifle is in the "Shoot it as is" category.

I don't think you could get rid of much of the pitting without totally ruining it.

Robert

[Scrounge]

Personally, I wouldn't bother having it restored until and unless it breaks badly. Maybe then. I would shoot the heck out of it, clean it properly, love and shoot it some more.

I have a Steven's Favorite 22LR that was my dads first rifle, and old when he got it. It is now shot out. You can't quite drop a .22LR shell down the barrel, but it's pretty loose. It could be restored with a barrel liner, but my dad didn't want that done to it. My plan is to make a copy of it once I finish my machining class. If I live long enough, anyway. ;)

[Kev18]

Im conflicted. I dont mind how it looks now, its just that maybe restoring the wood and abit of work on the metal? I don't know. That's why I asked. I would like to pass this rifle on someday or atleast keep it til I die. It would be nice to have it in decent quality/shape.

[salpal48]

Some good advise with antiques. They are what they are. they all have some sort of History and I do not think they should be restored. Sometime if not everytime there worth less on the open market when restored than if left alone .

[porthos]

there is nothing wrong with restoring a gun. this one is really in bad shape. why people want to keep things "original" is beyond me. i believe doug turnbill will give you a quote for restoration at no charge. it will cost only shipping. but, your pockets may not be deep enough. you could sent pictures and maybe get a rough estimate

[Kev18]

I dont mind the look of it, I actually like the look of the un-blued patina receiver. I dont mind doing abit of work myself. But its the bluing that bothers me. I would of buffed out some pits in the barrel a long time ago but I dont have what it takes to reblue.

[RKJ]

You might take a look at Brownell's Oxpho-blue. https://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=oxpho+blue&ksubmit=y
It comes in a paste and liquid. It is easy to use and if you don't polish it it maintains a nice dark color. I've done 2 pistols with it and while they're never going to be mistaken for Turnbull's work, they look good to me.

[Kev18]

You might take a look at Brownell's Oxpho-blue. https://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=oxpho+blue&ksubmit=y
It comes in a paste and liquid. It is easy to use and if you don't polish it it maintains a nice dark color. I've done 2 pistols with it and while they're never going to be mistaken for Turnbull's work, they look good to me.

Is it better then birchwood?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

A couple thousand miles in a scabbard would polish it up nicely! Joking aside, I'd just love it as is. I'm a big fan of "stabilizing" vs restoring.

[nicholst55]

A full-up restoration, complete with filing and hand polishing to remove the majority of the pitting and re-engraving the markings would cost a great deal of money. The hammer is pitted too badly to restore, IMHO. No idea of how the wood looks - are there any cracks? If you just want to protect the metal from further rust pitting, there are numerous options. Having the metal just degreased and dropped into a bluing tank is one idea. Two things that I personally would absolutely NOT do to that rifle are spray paint it (Cerakote), or cold blue it. But, that's just me. It's your gun. I think I would limit things to a detailed disassembly and cleaning, maybe apply some tung oil to the wood, a liberal coat of wax on the metal, and reassembly.

[Bazoo]

I say of you're going to do anything, go the Doug Turnbull route, otherwise leave it alone.

[oldred]

Well for sure restoring it would not hurt the colectiability (SP??) of it since it looks as if it has already been sanded unmercifully and a couple of spots look as if they possibly have even been hit with a grinding disc. Plus when looking at the wood (Worn away around the tang, heavily worn grain in the same area) it seems likely that replacement would be the best, and likely only, option for a restoration of Turnbull quality. A lot of smaller metal parts (that hammer for example) would probably be replaced so when it's finished just how much of the original gun would you have left? Of course things like that hammer could be saved but repairing that much pitting on even a part as small as that would likely cost many times what a new replacement would cost. Besides while Turnbull does outstanding and beautiful work he is not exactly cheap, his work is definitely worth every cent but you better be sitting down when you get that quote!

Now from your description of what you said you wanted a Turnbull type restoration doesn't seem to be what you want anyway but it's about the only practical way of actually "restoring" the rifle so that leaves just freshening up a bit or just leaving it as-is. Personally I would just leave it alone, not because I might think of it as hopeless (I certainly don't!) but rather it speaks of history, some new and some very old, and every scratch on it is the result of something that happened to it in it's lifetime. There is a kind of beauty in that sort of "finish" that comes only with age and in this case you are looking at well over a hundred years worth of events that will be erased forever if the rifle is to be restored or even heavily refinished.

A few things to consider, rust damage can not just be removed as those pits represent missing metal that has already been removed by oxidation. There are only two ways to repair pitting like that, welding in new metal (a huge and generally expensive undertaking in this case but still possible) or by sanding/milling away the surrounding metal by a depth equal to the depth of the pits which may not be possible without totally ruining the gun. Take for example the side of the receiver, the entire side would have to be thinned by an amount equal to the depth of the pits so that is a LOT of metal to remove. There's certainly nothing wrong with refinishing that rifle to your tastes but to remove that much pitting requires either adding metal back by welding or removing what could very well be so much metal that it could make it worse than what you have now.

[Texas by God]

I would use Birchwood Casey Plum Brown to make the action and custom lever match the barrel’s patina. No polishing, just degrease and apply till you get the color you need. I’d file the pits from the sides of the hammer, though.

[trails4u]

My .02. Keep it....take care of it the best you can, and enjoy it for what it is. If you change it, you can never go back to what you had. It don't have to be pretty to be perfect. And I think what you have is perfect.

[ulav8r]

As deep as many of the pits are, welding would be required to do a decent job. It would be very expensive but would allow restoration to look new, as Turnbull would do. It would not be necessary to do CCH on any parts if so desired. The finish could be blued, browned, or worn looking. My personal taste would be the worn look after filling all (most) of the pits. A few small pits left would add to the look.

If not restored, I would use a rust remover to chemically remove rust from the pits, then apply the desired finish and keep it oiled and waxed to preserve it.

The stock looks quite acceptable so far as I can see.

[Bazoo]

One thing to cover the pits would be engraving. Course, having it engraved and restored would be very expensive. If money isn't an issue, that's a route that would make a real heirloom.

[elmacgyver0]

I would go with the plum brown, leave the pitts, gives it character.

[725]

It's pretty rugged: especially the hammer. Replacing the hammer and any internal parts that relate to safety would be on my list. The wood could use some serious oiling. I'd use linspeed and give it many coats. After it dries, do it again. Have fun shooting it.

[NyFirefighter357]

I reefer you to this video https://youtu.be/ogZOF-WpGT4?t=175

Also a discussion post about it here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?382448-Liquid-metal-filler-takes-bluing

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=cs&sp=nmt4&u=https://www.zbraneliberec.cz/en/weapons-care/blackening/kyt-blacken-oprava-koroze&usg=ALkJrhiOJq-fjF-N2A0LnD5-xUOQy1u3vw

KYT FOR BLACKEN - corrosion repair
175.00 Kč

One-component sealant designed for repairs by deep (pitting) corrosion and mechanically damaged parts of weapons. It contains anti-corrosion additives that prevent further spread of deep corrosion. Putty after application with ... more information

SKU: LUN-008
Manufacturer: LUNDA
VAT rate: 21%

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=cs&sp=nmt4&u=https://www.zbraneliberec.cz/en/weapons-care/blackening/brown-line-hnedeni-za-studena&usg=ALkJrhhpLDh3ca4EEAngRmBCBxYVWMH4tA

BROWN LINE - cold browning
185.00 CZK

Preparation for cold browning of iron objects. It is intended for repairs of damaged surfaces of the original brown birch or for browning of whole objects /e.g. weapons. It is applied cold very quickly ... more information

SKU: LUN-006
Manufacturer: LUNDA
VAT rate: 21%

Preparation for cold browning of iron objects. It is intended for repairs of damaged surfaces of the original brown birch or for browning of whole objects /e.g. weapons. It is applied cold very quickly and comfortably. Allows regulation of the intensity of brown coloration by re-application. Some non-ferrous metals (brass, copper, bronze) can also be browned. The use of BROWN LINE does not cause any changes in the dimensions or structures of the material.

Package content: 50 ml

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=cs&sp=nmt4&u=https://www.zbraneliberec.cz/en/weapons-care/blackening/marble-dark-line-mramorovani-za-studena&usg=ALkJrhi1PFxZV3HC73H30fvucGwllfDdRw#breadcrumbS crollContent

MARBLE DARK LINE - cold marbling
220.00 CZK

Preparation for dark cold marbling of iron objects. It is intended for repairs of decorative decoration by marbling on replicas of weapons of some world manufacturers and for repairs of decorative treatment of weapons by marbling in so-called "leather coal" or by creating a darker structure of marble on entire iron surfaces / e.g. parts of weapons, such as lock plates, main beds, cocks, triggers, frames of period revolvers and replicas, baskets, bows, fuses, crown loops, etc. / cold rubbing. It is applied very quickly and comfortably with low consumption and can serve as a replacement for complex and lengthy hot marbling in "leather coal". The use of MARBLE DARK LINE does not cause any changes in the dimensions or structures of the material.


SKU: LUN-009
Manufacturer: LUNDA
VAT rate: 21%

The KYT FOR BLACKEN is a filler that will take color change.
The cold brown or cold marble are the "bluing", you can also use cold bluing

The shipping is close to the same price as the products. I have e-mailed them in the past, they are very helpful.
A bottle of (filler) KYT FOR BLACKEN is about $7
A bottle of the cold browning is about $8
A bottle of the cold marble is about $9
I think the shipping for was about $15 but it goes by weight & size of parcel.

Other products
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=cs&sp=nmt4&u=https://www.zbraneliberec.cz/en/weapons-care/blackening&usg=ALkJrhi5_RDyEN6Pl2WQdyLST81uA0ohsA

[jugulater]

while a complete back to factory restoration may be out of the question due to pitting in the metal, one thing that would concern me is the "in the white" appearance of that receiver. that thing looks like a rust magnet to me and i would certainly want it refinished in a way that would protect it from deteriorating further.

You arent destroying any collector value by preserving this rifle. a proper gunsmith who understands what conservation is will know what to do to make sure this fantastic piece of history is able to be enjoyed for generations to come.

[Kev18]

I would use Birchwood Casey Plum Brown to make the action and custom lever match the barrel’s patina. No polishing, just degrease and apply till you get the color you need. I’d file the pits from the sides of the hammer, though.

I have trouble finding that stuff here. Il look for it online.

[Kev18]

As im planning on dying with this thing here's what il do:

Il get rid of as much pitting as I see fit. I dont want all of it gone. I dont want it to look new.
I already started going at it.But I find it look really good, you guys would laugh at me so I wont post pictures. Im not a gunsmith thats for sure.
The rifle in the picture looks sanded because I had to remove rust/pitting when I first got it. Those pictures are nothing compared to when I got it. It was gone completely.
I would like a good browning solution if I can find any for the receiver.

I managed to get pits out of the hammer, to where Im happy with it.

All the pits look terrible, but in reality it didn't take much work, they arent deep at all. Took long to get them out but not deep and I was going slowly.

Call me ridiculous but I dont like giving my stuff to other people. I rather gain experience doing it myself and saving money, even If I need to buy the tools to do it.

As mentioned before It not like I have a bluing tank or anything, I have the smallest can of Birchwood Blue and Im not to much of a fan of the stuff. My barrel is badly pitted under the wood. so Id like to get those out, but I wont as I dont have the means to blue it back.

Ask away if you ahve questions, I guess if I have picture requests Il post some, if you guys want a good laugh:???:

[Kev18]

I would go with the plum brown, leave the pitts, gives it character.

Thats what I want, and Il get some out but not all. I dont like new guns.

[Kev18]

I Took one from far away so you guys dont roast me to bad. It looks better then it actually is. There's pits in there still.
https://i.imgur.com/1v6IiOu.jpg

[Bazoo]

That does look a lot better Kev. You ever thought about re color hardening the receiver? From what I know, you could probably manage to do it yourself with patience and some gumption.

I've always wanted to have my rifle receiver hard chromed. I like that look.

[sharps4590]

Welp, there went all the originality but, it's your rifle.

[Shawlerbrook]

Personally, I would shoot it as is, but if you are going to restore, have it done professionally. Cold blue will only “Bubba” it up. It’s ok for a touch up but not for an old beauty like that.

[richhodg66]

my $0.02 shoot it as is. You will never get all the pits out or filled. The case hardening is already compromised by the polishing. It is generally 20 to 40 thousands deep. You might have it re-hardened. I would shoot as is.

Yep. The nice thing about a shooter grade classic like that is you can shoot it without feeling bad about it.

Enjoy and and shoot/hunt it.

[curdog007]

At this stage I would blue it, put it back together and shoot it.
I was in the high end gun restoration business for a long time (I have now retired). For $3000 to $3500 you can buy a very nice 1886. That amount of money will not get you very far into restoring a rifle in the condition of the one you have at all.
There are very few truly competent people in the gun restoration business, and sadly, you get what you pay for.

[jugulater]

i second re-case hardening that receiver, or at the very least a proper hot blue. “Originality” is important to guns that are in 90%+ condition, not to a gun covered in pitting. make sure all the rust in those pits is properly deactivated or that gun will continue to deteriorate.

you aren’t ruining anything, you’re saving it for the person after you. sure, it ain’t the way it came out of the factory, but let’s be realistic about the fact these guns are almost considered historical artifacts at this point. they need to be preserved.

[Kev18]

How does the plum brown work, I've never used some before?
And how do you guys say you can case harden a receiver?

[Kev18]

I mentioned it before and il say it again. I like my rifles, this one in particular. I just want to look at it and be happy. Whether I pay 10000$ or do some work on it myself, it wont be original anymore. And honestly looking at something you've accomplished yourself and being happy with the end result means more to me then a brand new rifle.

[oldred]

make sure all the rust in those pits is properly deactivated or that gun will continue to deteriorate.



This is a VERY important point and definitely needs attending to!!!! No matter how much sanding is done active corrosion will still be lurking in any and all pitting that is left. This can easily be de-activated with one of the many Phosphoric acid type rust removers out there that can be found at just about any home building supply, auto parts or any decent hardware store. The stuff is easy and safe to use (it's the same Phosphoric acid that's in Coca-Cola, Pepsi, etc.) and works in about one minute or so. It will completely dissolve remaining rust usually but if any is left it will be chemically converted into a non-active and even corrosion resistant form so it won't come back to harm the finish later, it even leaves a Phosphate coating that will further retard corrosion. Skip this step and those tiny hidden rust specks, even in microscopic form, will always be active so all it will need is contact with Oxygen to start the corrosion process again. Oil will only hold it back by smothering it from the Oxygen in the air, this only works as long as the oil film is intact and over time it WILL find a way to act up again! Phosphoric Acid is cheap, nontoxic and despite it's ominous sounding "acid/chemical" name it's way less corrosive than even vinegar and about as toxic as vinegar!

[elmacgyver0]

Birchwood Casey Plum Brown
heat the metal and apply with a cotton ball.
Instructions on the bottle.

Probably the easiest finish to do.

Case Hardening
Mix scraps of leather, bone and charcoal in heavy metal box. Bury receiver in mixture and seal the box.
Place in coals of a hot fire for a few hours then remove and dump contents in cold water.

If you do the case hardening read all you can about it before attempting it.
I personally have never as yet done it, but know the basics from reading about it.

[Kev18]

Do you guys know what grit I should stop polishing. at? 320?

[roadie]

The posts recommending he do his own color case hardening are ridiculous. Color case hardening isn't something to attempt on a rifle you want to restore. It's an excellent way for someone who knows nothing about it to destroy a fine rifle though.

If you want it color case hardened, then you send it to someone who specializes in doing that, cause it is most definitely a specialty.

In this case, I would recommend finishing the polishing, keep the edges sharp and crisp.....I notice the front shoulder has a bad spot that needs to be babied. After it's polished to 320 grit, degrease it and slop some cold blue on it. The idea is to protect it from rusting until the final finish is decided on.

Or, rust blue it, being careful to keep oily, grimy fingers away from it at all times. Read up on whatever you decide on before doing it.

The thing to understand is the the polishing makes the job look good or not, the finish is just that. On a properly polished gun, even a poor cold blue job would look decent, maybe even look like a good patina........polishing is everything.

[Kev18]

I decided on the plumb brown. Hopefully it turns out nice. Im happy with how it looks now. Might be ridiculous to you guys but I like it :) I need to place my order for the Plumb brown, I found some in Canada.
https://i.imgur.com/N4o6SU6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HGfIExB.jpg

[sharps4590]

Doesn't Birchwood Casey's Plumb Brown require heating the metal to the point water sizzles? It's been a long time since I used it on ML barrels but, that's what my head is remembering. I also want to remember that I went to 600 grit, wet or dry on those barrels and other metal parts. They browned up good and after 35-40 years they still look pretty darn good for all the use they've had. None are splotchy and only thinning on the edges. Took several applications too, provided I'm remembering correctly.

[flounderman]

The Mark Lee quick rust blueing is the easiest, fastest, and gets the best results of anything I have used. I found heating the metal with a heat gun and applying the blue worked best

[OutHuntn84]

Beautiful gun love the character

[Kev18]

The Mark Lee quick rust blueing is the easiest, fastest, and gets the best results of anything I have used. I found heating the metal with a heat gun and applying the blue worked best

Thats exactly the one I ordered. They didn't have Birchwood in stock so I got that one. They say to heat up the metal with a blow torch and apply. Then wipe off and repeat process.

[RKJ]

Is it better then birchwood? in my experience it is. It gave a pitted S&W 28 a deep black color and the same for a Colt 1911 Officers I have. I've tried (years ago) the liquid blue from Birchwood Casey and was not impressed. The Oxpho blue is around twice the $$ over the BC stuff though (but worth it).

I just saw you ordered some blueing, let us see some pics afterward. It sounds like a good product.

[Kev18]

in my experience it is. It gave a pitted S&W 28 a deep black color and the same for a Colt 1911 Officers I have. I've tried (years ago) the liquid blue from Birchwood Casey and was not impressed. The Oxpho blue is around twice the $$ over the BC stuff though (but worth it).

I just saw you ordered some blueing, let us see some pics afterward. It sounds like a good product.

Il try to follow the instructions as best I can.
I find Casey's blue works alot better the more you heat the metal. I tried it on my barrel cold like the instructions say, and it rubs off with a cloth or just fingers. I took a torch until it starts smoking alitle and it help up a dark black.

[Kev18]

Does anyone have any pictures of the browning solution on the receiver? I would like to see what it would look like.
Does it stay plumb brown or go black depending on the layers?

[indian joe]

Im conflicted. I dont mind how it looks now, its just that maybe restoring the wood and abit of work on the metal? I don't know. That's why I asked. I would like to pass this rifle on someday or atleast keep it til I die. It would be nice to have it in decent quality/shape.

Kev
That reciever has marks like it was rough cleaned with a disc sander - if you spend time on it BY HAND with new emery paper you be amazed how much better you can make it look - 240 or 320 grit at the start and just go slow in the long direction - you will get all the sander marks out and a lot of the rust pits. Leave the screws in the action or make and fit dummy ones so you dont round the edges of the screw holes too much - maybe keep your eye on the adds and get a replacement hammer if one shows up. Its a decent shooter but antique value is already gone with those sander marks - you enjoy this gun - give it some tlc - test your sanding technique on the bottom of the action between lever and forend, if you get tired of it nobody will notice that piece.

[sigep1764]

Do it. Have it restored. I have a 1917 manufactured 1890 Winchester in 22WRF that was bought by my great grandfather and was my grandpas first rifle. It will never leave my family. I had it completely restored, I did the wood and a local gunsmith handled the metal. It does get shot from time to time and is preserved for my unborn children to enjoy in the future. I didn't care about the value, just that it will exist without deteriorating.

[Kev18]

Do it. Have it restored. I have a 1917 manufactured 1890 Winchester in 22WRF that was bought by my great grandfather and was my grandpas first rifle. It will never leave my family. I had it completely restored, I did the wood and a local gunsmith handled the metal. It does get shot from time to time and is preserved for my unborn children to enjoy in the future. I didn't care about the value, just that it will exist without deteriorating.

Im doing it myself. I know what I want so it will be easier. I ordered some plumb brown for the receiver.

[W.R.Buchanan]

KEV: go to Turnbull's website and there is a new 5 part series on prepping your gun for finishing.

https://www.turnbullrestoration.com/video-introduction-to-metal-preparation/?utm_source=Turnbull+Restoration+Co.%2C+Inc.&utm_campaign=04c4a5c11d-Turnbull+Weekly+Update+WO042020&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_556814ec9a-04c4a5c11d-345227900&mc_cid=04c4a5c11d&mc_eid=0840bc4c07

It shows you how to polish the gun so you don't screw it up and it ain't that hard.

Do this Before you go any farther! you can bring that gun right back to really nice by just following the instructions!

Randy

[LAGS]

I have recently been doing Browning on some of my ML's , but can't post pictures .
The Browning will come out a little darker than natural Patina when you first finish it.
It may lighten up a little bit over time and wear.
That is what some of mine have done that I browned years ago.
But one thing I noticed is , The Browning does seem to show any defects in the metal like rust pits and scratches more than Slow rust blue does.
But in your situation , I would go with the Brown over the bluing.
If you polish out the Sanding Scratches like Indian Joe said , what pits that do show will just keep the history of the gun alive.
But the Browning will add life to the gun by adding a layer of protection so you won't end up with more pitting.
I take it that you use this rifle as a Hunter and not just a display piece ?
Like others have said , the Collectors Value is Nill.
But I can see you can get many more years of service out of this gun without trying to bring it back to Perfect.

[ascast]

Birchwood Casey Plum Brown
heat the metal and apply with a cotton ball.
Instructions on the bottle.

Probably the easiest finish to do.

Case Hardening
Mix scraps of leather, bone and charcoal in heavy metal box. Bury receiver in mixture and seal the box.
Place in coals of a hot fire for a few hours then remove and dump contents in cold water.

If you do the case hardening read all you can about it before attempting it.
I personally have never as yet done it, but know the basics from reading about it.

that's truly hilarious - I think it's a little more involved than this - do not do this

[LAGS]

Many years ago , I watched my Grandfather ( who was a Gunsmith ) do color case hardening.
There was much more involved than you see on YouTube.
Warping of parts was one of the factors people don't consider.
It is something to this day , I will leave to the Professionals because you are talking about temperatures around 1500 degrees.
And if not done right , you end up with a Soft Receiver , or one that is too hard and brittle.
Plus , doing something like case hardening will be so expensive , it wouldn't be worth it except on a Brand New rifle.

[koger]

If you have all the metal bead blasted, and have it hot blued, it will look good. Matte finishing covers up a ton of pits. I believe you need to do something, to stop the ongoing rust that will only get worse with time. Just my opinon from 36+ years of gunsmithing. I have blued hundreds of guns, and a lot of folks, who have a favorite, in the shape of yours, have really like the matte finish bluing. It also, helps protect from rust in the future in 2 ways. When you bead blast, you will remove nearly all the rust from the pits already there, and bluing over them will stop the rust. Also, a matte, textured finish, holds oil/grease better, and prevents rust, somewhat better. I have taken, to cleaning all my guns, inside and out with hopes #9, drying them off, and putting a thin coat of Rig firearm grease on all outside surfaces, I have found no better protectant.

[LAGS]

I second the bead blasting to remove all the rust down in the pits.
But I didn't suggest it because the OP was doing the work himself and didn't mention having a bead blaster or access to one.
But I do bead blast all metal that I am going to Reblue.
Even the ones that will get a Finer polish before bluing.
The bead blasting hides a lot of defects.
But it can also provide you with an even Matt Finish to start your polishing.
But I do like the Bead Blasted , Matt finish for both Rust Bluing and Browning.
I also do Sand Blast metal for a Deeper Matt Finish on some rifles.

[Kev18]

I have recently been doing Browning on some of my ML's , but can't post pictures .
The Browning will come out a little darker than natural Patina when you first finish it.
It may lighten up a little bit over time and wear.
That is what some of mine have done that I browned years ago.
But one thing I noticed is , The Browning does seem to show any defects in the metal like rust pits and scratches more than Slow rust blue does.
But in your situation , I would go with the Brown over the bluing.
If you polish out the Sanding Scratches like Indian Joe said , what pits that do show will just keep the history of the gun alive.
But the Browning will add life to the gun by adding a layer of protection so you won't end up with more pitting.
I take it that you use this rifle as a Hunter and not just a display piece ?
Like others have said , the Collectors Value is Nill.
But I can see you can get many more years of service out of this gun without trying to bring it back to Perfect.

I use the gun quite often. I dont have any display pieces. All shooters. Hopefully the brown will come out nice, does it remove abit of the scratches from the polishing? I imagine ti does since it rusts and you need to rub it off.
Also, what did you sue to clean the rust off inbetween layers? I dont have a carding wheel.

[LAGS]

With Browning that I do with BC plumb brown you do not have to Card Off like you do with slow Rust Bluing.
Most Browning is Minimal Rusting , and can be cleaned up with Water , Steel Wool or Acetone.
Since Browning has minimal Rusting , it will not etch away any of the polishing scratches like Slow Rusting and Carding will.
I slow rust a lot of barrels , and have never one a Carding Wheel.
I do have a Hand Held Carding Brush or two.
But I mostly use steel wool that has been De Greased in Acetone to card off the metal.

[Kev18]

With Browning that I do with BC plumb brown you do not have to Card Off like you do with slow Rust Bluing.
Most Browning is Minimal Rusting , and can be cleaned up with Water , Steel Wool or Acetone.
Since Browning has minimal Rusting , it will not etch away any of the polishing scratches like Slow Rusting and Carding will.
I slow rust a lot of barrels , and have never one a Carding Wheel.
I do have a Hand Held Carding Brush or two.
But I mostly use steel wool that has been De Greased in Acetone to card off the metal.

So I should buff out the receiver more? I used 320 grit and there is visual scratches.

[LAGS]

Are you using any kind of sanding block ?
I found that a Pink Rubber Ereaser works very good as a sanding block.
It is firm enough , small enough , and can get into areas you need to apply pressure but still have control of the sanding direction.
Sandpaper just held in your hand will just follow the contour of the flat surface you are trying to restore

[samari46]

I know you may not want to do this but some smiths are artists with a bead blasting gun. Bead blast and get it reblued will come out very dark. Or get a smith to do a black park after bead blasting. I have a chopped M1917 U.S. Enfield in 30-06 that I had done years ago as far as cutting down the rear receiver ring and sand and polish all the metal. The smith bead blasted it then reblued it. Came out almost black. Though there are differences in the steel your 1886 was made out of and the later M1917. There was an article on the ASSRA forum about a a process called micro welding. Poster had an action sent out and was badly pitted. They cleaned it up as best as possible. Then set the action up in the machine and and what you saw was a bunch of very small lines of weld. Not enough to affect the heat treatment. When cleaned up was almost impossible to detect where the welding was done. Frank

[oldred]

I found that a Pink Rubber Ereaser works very good as a sanding block.



Now that's a great suggestion and has caused one of those "now why didn't I think of that" moments for me! Thanks for sharing that one!

[Kev18]

I cut a small block of wood but an eraser is a good idea!

[LAGS]

Wood is Good.
But there are Curved surfaces on a gun.
The rubber can follow them without exerting additional pressure and gouging in.
A ereaser is the cheapest and most available block that I have found.
Also.
You can cut sand and shape a rubber ereaser to whatever shape you want.
And if you need a firmer sanding block , just use a grey Ink eraeser
I use them when sanding and refinishing stocks too.

[Kev18]

Here's where im at. I like the left side of the gun, came out nice. The loading gate side still has deeper scratches from rough paper im trying to get out. Im pressing hard but I cant seem to reach them.
https://i.imgur.com/DBTPONe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/p7rW5Vr.jpg

[LAGS]

Looks like you can polish out more of the scratches on the right side if you take your time.
But try to work in one direction only and don't just focus on a scratch or you create dips in the surface.
Like near the front on the right side where they rounded off a depression at the screw recess.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Did you got look at the Turnbull Videos I posted? It had all the prep work lined out pretty simply?

Also you should be doing the curved surfaces first as that keeps the edges sharp. All covered in the Turnbull's Vids.

When you get done with your finish you need to wax the metal parts using Tree-Wax , Bees wax or similar. You apply the stuff to a warmed part and let it soak in then buff with a towel. Do it 2-3 times, and the gun will never rust again! This is not new or unheard of it's been around since the beginning.

How do you think they protected their guns from the elements 200 years ago? The only oil that was available was Whale Oil and it was very expensive. Patches got Bacon Grease or Bear Fat.

If you were out in the rain which was kinda gonna happen sooner or later you had to completely disassemble your gun every night fro cleaning and if you didn't do it, it would rust solid in a day or so. The wax prevented that from happening.

Randy

[Kev18]

Looks like you can polish out more of the scratches on the right side if you take your time.
But try to work in one direction only and don't just focus on a scratch or you create dips in the surface.
Like near the front on the right side where they rounded off a depression at the screw recess.

Il give it a shot. Im using an eraser like you mentioned.

[Kev18]

Did you got look at the Turnbull Videos I posted? It had all the prep work lined out pretty simply?

Also you should be doing the curved surfaces first as that keeps the edges sharp. All covered in the Turnbull Vids.

When you get done with your finish you need to wax the metal parts using Treewax , Bees wax or similar. You apply the stuff to a warmed part and let it soak in then buff with a towel. Do it 2-3 times, and the gun will never rust again! This is not new or unheard of it's been around since the beginning.

How do you think they protected their guns from the elements 200 years ago? The only oil that was available was Whale Oil and it was expensive.

Randy

Randy

I bought renaissance wax.I didn't use any yet.

[M-Tecs]

KEV: go to Turnbull's website and there is a new 5 part series on prepping your gun for finishing.

https://www.turnbullrestoration.com/video-introduction-to-metal-preparation/?utm_source=Turnbull+Restoration+Co.%2C+Inc.&utm_campaign=04c4a5c11d-Turnbull+Weekly+Update+WO042020&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_556814ec9a-04c4a5c11d-345227900&mc_cid=04c4a5c11d&mc_eid=0840bc4c07

It shows you how to polish the gun so you don't screw it up and it ain't that hard.

Do this Before you go any farther! you can bring that gun right back to really nice by just following the instructions!

Randy

I was not aware of these. They are excellent. Thanks for posting.

[Tripplebeards]

I sanded down a 1905 young American 32 given to me that was all oxidized and pitted. I sanded it smooth and polished it. The pistol looks like new now. I love these projects!

I completely refinished a 1941 long branch sporter lee enfield last year. Imo the Oxpho blue finish turned out better then most factory jobs. I reblued the whole rifle.

https://i.imgur.com/bRr14Cg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/B9njimj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/n21bUtX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/taxmu1B.jpg

Your gun is looking awesome! Looks like candidate for Oxpho blue! It’s a $20 try that you can remove if you don’t like it.


Now that you got out most of the building would be pretty cool if you sent it in to get it Case hardened again. It would probably cover some of the imperfections to the naked eye with all the different colors. I think Brownels sell a “brown” colored old school type bluing as well.

[W.R.Buchanan]

They were sent to me in a "Turnbull Newsletter" a few days ago. Figured I'd spread them around.

His Wood Finishing Techniques are closely guarded secrets and akin to the English Gun Makers techniques. And when I called them asking how they matched the colors their stocks and fore ends they wouldn't tell me.

But then came the "How's it's Made" TV Show,,, which covered a guns restoration from beginning to end.

I found out the way they match the colors is by making the Stock and Fore end off the same stock blank! DUH!!!

Even the grain structure matches because it's from the same piece of wood!

My "Big Light Bulb" pretty much burned out after seeing that!:Bright idea::Bright idea:

Randy

[Kev18]

I sanded down a 1905 young American 32 given to me that was all oxidized and pitted. I sanded it smooth and polished it. The pistol looks like new now. I love these projects!

I completely refinished a 1941 long branch sporter lee enfield last year. Imo the Oxpho blue finish turned out better then most factory jobs. I reblued the whole rifle.


Your gun is looking awesome! Looks like candidate for Oxpho blue! It’s a $20 try that you can remove if you don’t like it.


Now that you got out most of the building would be pretty cool if you sent it in to get it Case hardened again. It would probably cover some of the imperfections to the naked eye with all the different colors. I think Brownels sell a “brown” colored old school type bluing as well.\

I bought some brown, im waiting for it to come. You did a good job on those guns! I have an enfield that my grandpa owned and it got passed down to me. My uncle gave it a few years ago.

[Kev18]

They were sent to me in a "Turnbull Newsletter" a few days ago. Figured I'd spread them around.

His Wood Finishing Techniques are closely guarded secrets and akin to the English Gun Makers techniques. And when I called them asking how they matched the colors their stocks and fore ends they wouldn't tell me.

But then came the "How's it's Made" TV Show,,, which covered a guns restoration from beginning to end.

I found out the way they match the colors is by making the Stock and Fore end off the same stock blank! DUH!!!

Even the grain structure matches because it's from the same piece of wood!

My "Big Light Bulb" pretty much burned out after seeing that!:Bright idea::Bright idea:

Randy

I knew that, but the problem comes when people like us that work on guns try to order new stock pieces. Im pretty sure companies don't care if they match or not. They will pick up the pieces and ship it out.

[M-Tecs]

I knew that, but the problem comes when people like us that work on guns try to order new stock pieces. Im pretty sure companies don't care if they match or not. They will pick up the pieces and ship it out.

For most 100% finished lowest cost stock producers that is mostly true. Not true for most of the semi-custom producers. Even on there low grade woods they will cut from the same blank. Some do it automatically and some you have to request it but I have never had an issue for getting two piece stock for the same blank.

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B: Was that the original wood on your Enfield? It came out nice. On my BSA Enfield the wood looked like it had been drug behind a car. I went after it with a sander and just kept after it until all the dings and dents were gone. The wood has a very pleasing Redish cast to it, almost looked like Rosewood, and finished up nicely with Tru Oil.

I just went over the metal with Birchwood Casey Super Blue and it came right back, but it wasn't very far gone in the first place. Really just a touch up of the worn spots.

The gun came out nice.

Randy

[Kev18]

3B: Was that the original wood on your Enfield? It came out nice. On my BSA Enfield the wood looked like it had been drug behind a car. I went after it with a sander and just kept after it until all the dings and dents were gone. The wood has a very pleasing Redish cast to it, almost looked like Rosewood, and finished up nicely with Tru Oil.

I just went over the metal with Birchwood Casey Super Blue and it came right back, but it wasn't very far gone in the first place. Really just a touch up of the worn spots.

The gun came out nice.

Randy

Does the blue hold up?

[W.R.Buchanan]

It holds up OK, but if it does get thin you can just go after it again and touch it up. I use it alot, and it's pretty painless to use.

Randy

[BigEyeBob]

3B: Was that the original wood on your Enfield? It came out nice. On my BSA Enfield the wood looked like it had been drug behind a car. I went after it with a sander and just kept after it until all the dings and dents were gone. The wood has a very pleasing Redish cast to it, almost looked like Rosewood, and finished up nicely with Tru Oil.

I just went over the metal with Birchwood Casey Super Blue and it came right back, but it wasn't very far gone in the first place. Really just a touch up of the worn spots.

The gun came out nice.

Randy

BSA used English walnut on thier military firearms not high grade stuff though
.Australian made Lithgows got stuck with Coachwood stocks .

[Kev18]

I got the brown solution in the mail on Thursday. I got the receiver done. I need to do all the other parts now! I really like the look so far.

[Kev18]

I finally finished everything except the barrel. I didnt touch it. Il need to do it another time. Here's what I got so far. I think it looks nice. its darker then it seems, I had the flash on.
I need some good bluing for the barrel and other parts. Might order some.
Before:
https://i.imgur.com/LaJQto7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qVbuacx.jpg
After:
https://i.imgur.com/LM9THo0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1JEt7yh.jpg

[LAGS]

How many coats of Browning did you put on ?
The barrel might look good Browned also .

[Kev18]

How many coats of Browning did you put on ?
The barrel might look good Browned also .

I'm not quite sure, but I'd like to say between 8-10.the first few dont do anything. After the metal turns straw yellow maybe after the third layer, the rust really starts to firm and the solution activates.
It was my first time using a browning solution.