Lee 148g Wadcutter load data

[metricmonkeywrench]

Anyone have a copy of the LEE Modern reloading 2nd edition handy? I'm looking for the published load data for the 148g DEWC over Bullseye. I have the Lee MR first edition and believe that is based on Hercules granular BE not the current Alliant disk BE.

The 1st Lee shows 2.6 to 2.8 max which is the old standard.

I went to the Alliant site but the load data for BE is for a hollow base WC...

And yes let the bashing begin...I do need to get the latest version and no I don't need to hear about alternate powders/loads

Update, I went back and checked the powder page and they have a “borrowed” burn rate chart that calls out Alliant BE

[tazman]

Something you are failing to realize. The hollow based wadcutter doesn't take up any more space inside the case than a solid base wadcutter since they weigh the same.
Yes, the hollow based wadcutter is longer, but it has a hollow base. That hollow in the base is not taking up room.
The pressures and load data should be very close to identical.
Just use the load data from the Alliant site.

[RU shooter]

My Speer manual list 3.9 start and 4.5 grs max of Bullseye for the DEWC at an oal of 1.295

[rking22]

Wow, that Speer data seems high! I always considered 3.5 to be a full pressure load with a flush solid 148 gr wadcutter. The lee data would be where I would stay with the hollow base, the swagger ones, especially, can’t take the pressure of a solid wc. I have a Lee book, just have to did it out and see which it is. 3.2 to 3.5 gr of any Bullseye is a good safe and solid preforming load. There is a good article on Grant Cunningham’s site, recently linked here.

https://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11/ed-harris-revisiting-the-full-charge-wadcutter/

Ok, I have the 2nd edition Lee book. it also lists 2.6 to 2.8 gr of bullseye at 1.180 oal. Does not say which type wadcutter. Pressure of 2.9 is shown as 15,900 psi.

[tobywan45]

I have a 2010 lee 2nd ed. 148gr wad cutter Bullseye 2.6 - 2.8 gr. Pal 1.180

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

[tobywan45]

Sorry about spell check OAL 1.180

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

[metricmonkeywrench]

Taz, have that under consideration as well.

OAL is making up the is making up the difference, I have another load for the same bullet using 700x that has the OAL out to the 1.295 mark as well.

I believe the OAL for the BE load is something like 1.185 or so to adjust the free space for the pressure curve

My old Remington HBWC was 2.8g BE seated flush

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Try this https://archive.org/details/Modern_Reloading_1st_Edition_by_Richard_Lee/page/n201/mode/2up

[rking22]

260817

[metricmonkeywrench]

Thanks guys, just what I needed.

I have read that Ed Harris article several times before. For the most part he’s loading the Saeco DEWC which sits well proud of the case like. My alternative is a HG #50 but the Lee soupcans just seem to fall out of the mould a lot faster for some reason.

[tazman]

Taz, have that under consideration as well.

OAL is making up the is making up the difference, I have another load for the same bullet using 700x that has the OAL out to the 1.295 mark as well.

I believe the OAL for the BE load is something like 1.185 or so to adjust the free space for the pressure curve

My old Remington HBWC was 2.8g BE seated flush

It all depends on where you want to seat the boolit. Flush or somewhere farther out. Crimp in the crimp groove or even in one of the lube grooves.
Most of the loading manuals have the wadcutters flush. Some use the crimp groove.
As you said, you will need to decide on an OAL.
I have even gone so far as to crimp in the second lube groove. This will let you use the powder data for 150 grain SWC boolits. You would need to have the wadcutters sized for a slip fit in the throats to use this though since the front drive band would extend into the chamber throat on a 38 special.
I don't see you mentioning what gun you are going to use. I am assuming a revolver.

[mikeg1005]

One comment on seating DEWC or HBWC flush with the case mouth. Some cases have thicker bases and wil bulge from seating a bullet that deep. To the point they will not drop into a cylinder. If you're shooting mixed brass this is something to look out for/reason to load longer than flush.

Bench your gun at 25yds and see what it likes best... seems like 2.7-3gr of bulleye is the winning ticket for most people.

This is such a low pressure load that I wouldn't be too worried about the specifics.

[Conditor22]

go to castpics http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/reloaders-reference/load-lookup-by-powder

search by the powder, then by the caliber
Powder .............Cartridge.................. Bullet Wtin Gn Bullet Max Charge (Gn) Velocity OAL Pressure Primer Load Source
AL Bullseye 357 Remington Magnum 148 148 LWC 5.7 1475 1.33......... 34000 Alliant

[Rich/WIS]

The Lee site only shows two WC designs, the TL double ended WC and the standard lube that has a crimp groove. There is no need to flush seat WC bullets if shooting in a revolver, the flush seated load was intended for auto pistols like the old Colt Gold Cup or the S&W M52 that needed the shorter OAL. There is no crimp groove on the Lee TL design and if seating out of the case you may want to taper crimp rather than roll crimp.

[dverna]

The Lee site only shows two WC designs, the TL double ended WC and the standard lube that has a crimp groove. There is no need to flush seat WC bullets if shooting in a revolver, the flush seated load was intended for auto pistols like the old Colt Gold Cup or the S&W M52 that needed the shorter OAL. There is no crimp groove on the Lee TL design and if seating out of the case you may want to taper crimp rather than roll crimp.

That is my understanding as well.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Catching back up, this is the soup can double ended wadcutter P/N 90279, no real crimp groove in these.

The brass is true wadcutter brass sized with a Lyman M die, no issues there

All in all they shoot real nice out of my S&W Model 10.

This was just my first time with a new can of BE. My old cardboard Hercules tube finally ran out and I opened a shiney new plastic bottle of Alliant.

[35remington]

If standard pressure is desired do not exceed 3.5 grains Bullseye with a 148 WC of such type that allows for a small amount to be seated outside the case. This gains 780 fps from 1.875” barrels and about 870 fps from four inch barrels. That is plenty for whatever use a 38 may be for.

Seating wadcutters out notably further than standard, which is normally done only with a small leading band outside the case, may result in chambering problems if bullets are not sized smaller than cylinder throats. It also defeats the purpose of the wadcutter, which greatly reduces the wide variations in velocity found in the 38 when powder shifts position. Seating out also does not meaningfully increase velocity when pressures are similar. The gain amounts to about 40 fps from a four inch barrel or thereabouts which is not significant and the downside is not worth it.

Said by a guy who used it think it was the better idea and has since reconsidered after extensive testing.

[rking22]

This thread got me curious, did some looking and comparing. I have Speer #9 and 10. Wadcutter data in pictures.
260880

260881

Note the dramatic difference between the data for bullseye between the 2 manuals! Never noticed it before, but start at 3.9 gr is awful high compared to other sources, including their own #9 manual.

[RU shooter]

Oldest Speer I have is #10 it don't list oal with the dewc . The 12 and 13 manuals list same loads start and max as #10 but list the oal as tested (1.295)

[rking22]

That extra .110 of “airspace” created by the longer oal could explain it, perhaps. There is a good graphic for the pressure change due to seating depth, example shown is 38special wadcutter. See if I can find it and add here, seating depth is a huge contribution to pressure yielded.

[rking22]

Found it in another thread.
260908

[metricmonkeywrench]

Nice one rking, interesting that the bullet used appears to be an HG #50/Lyman 358091 seated flush below the crimp groove as "normal". When I load to the published OAL I'm at the crimp groove. Never had any reason to seat any deeper.

As was written elsewhere the knowledge base of loading and shooting wadcutters is going away since Law enforcement has moved away from revolvers as a duty side arm.

[rking22]

True, and a shame as well. If I only had 1 38special bullet, it would be that wad cutter. I load it on 3.2 gr bullseye and shoot them in every 38 I own. Used 3.5 till I picked up a nice tight M&P from 1919. Being nice to it really doesn’t adversely effect the load, not enough to matter.

[35remington]

Some of the loads in the Speer manual shown previously would show pressure in excess of Plus P level if tested today using more recent more accurate testing methods.

FWIW.