Is the word of God absolute????

[abunaitoo]

Seems many churches change their teachings and views according to what is popular.
Many people use their own interpretation of the bible to fit their thinking.
Seems right and wrong now depends on what church you go to.
So, is the word of God absolute????
Or does it change with the times????

[plowboysghost]

Yes..and so is His judgement.

[1hole]

Seems many churches change their teachings and views according to what is popular.
Many people use their own interpretation of the bible to fit their thinking.
Seems right and wrong now depends on what church you go to.

Sadly, you are right.


So, is the word of God absolute????
Or does it change with the times????

The Words of God are nothing less than absolute. In spite of what some church leaders say, God's words and standards of life do not "change with the times". If that were true, even a little bit true, man wouldn't need a Bible at all because what must be true tomorrow could be set by a leadership committee voting to court PC popularity today.

Sin is being taught and practiced today within many once staunch denominations and it's been going on for decades but it's the wide and easy path leading to hell. Scripture tells us we ain't seen nothing yet, seems it's going to accelerate and get much worse as we get closer to the Lord's return.

Bottom line; stick with the Bible, not badly lost "church leaders"!

Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.

[dtknowles]

When you find the proper interpretation of God's words let us know.

If the absolute meaning of the Bible was clear it would be hard to misinterpret it.

Tim

[abunaitoo]

"If the absolute meaning of the Bible was clear it would be hard to misinterpret it."
I think that nailed it.

[M-Tecs]

Which version of the bible and what about the 14 to 50 books that have been removed?

[LawrenceA]

It is with great trepidation I enter this arena. I hate to say it but this is my opinion and it is considered and reconsidered. I spent years reading and re reading and seeking guidance to reach this point.
If you believe otherwise then that is your prerogative and I support you having a choice. I hope you can support mine.

His word may be absolute. But we do not have his absolute word.
What we have is what others have orally passed down for generations in ancient and forgotten languages and then written down and then re interpreted and then re written and then re interpreted again.
Simple example. The Gospel according to Saint James says it was an apple tree in the garden of Eden. In Italy the tree is often portrayed as a fig tree. The English at the time would not have known what a fig was. In Old English "apple" means fruit.
So it is possible that in the Saint James version (the first Bible for the people not the clergy and learned) they could not say fig and have the masses understand so wrote fruit. Message is the same but the word is different.
Even in English how many words have a double or changed meaning. Once upon a time a ******(rhymes with maggot) was only a bundle of kindling. Today a flintlock has the hammer strike the frizzen, used to be the cock (hammer) struck the hammer(frizzen).

Another example. I cannot remember Chapter and verse but the Bible says Mary was a virgin. Originally this was written in ancient Greek where the word for virgin is the same as young woman.
So this verse actually can say "Mary was a young woman". The interpretation that it means virgin comes from when she spoke to an angel and said "How can I be with child as I have not been with a man?" Message is the same but the words are based on interpretation.
There are differences in the New Testament on who attended the birth of christ. One bible has 3 kings or 3 shepherds depending on the gospel, another 3 magi and 3 shepherds. There is an insurmountable difference between a magi (A type of really smart clergyman from Persia) and a King. If you look at which Gospel then you can see the kings are in the gospel written for the aristocracy and the Shepherds for the common folk. I believe that the words were adjusted to suit the intended audience.
Jesus was crucified between thieves. The Romans did not crucify thieves. Political dissidents and the like were usually crucified, amongst others, but not thieves.

It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle. In ancient times the "eye of the needle" was a small gate in a city wall. A camel could be forced to crawl through. Similar message but not the same intensity.
There are many, many more.

Also if we look at everyday beliefs versus what is written.
When you die you go to heaven. No you don't you have to wait and then just maybe.
There is room for everyone in heaven. No there isn't there is room for 144,000 in heaven being 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. It is a quota system. Well so the word implies.
According to Leviticus (and Deutoronomy to I think) you will go to hell for wearing cloth of mixed fiber or sowing mixed crops. Anyone wear Poly-cotton or have a veggie patch?
Leviticus also has you going to hell for wearing clothes belonging to the other gender. I have potentially cursed my wife to eternal damnation for giving her my coat to wear.

The goal the writer had, was to deliver the correct message.
I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone.

[GhostHawk]

There is a difference between Mankinds word, and HIS word.

Mankind has been messing with religion for thousands of years. And IMO in 90% + cases. do not have it right.

When in doubt, take it to him in prayer. He'll tell you/show you/give you the knowledge you need.

There are some very solid people here that I trust. And I have found one church where I felt at home. Only problem is at 1550 miles away it is a bit of a commute. So mostly when I feel the need I turn to Youtube. Tennessee Ernie Ford is my favorite. When he sings gospel, you can tell he believes.

For everything else, make your mind calm and smooth as a Minnesota lake at 5am, not a wrinkle on the water.
Ask, and then LISTEN.

I do find it seems to help get his attention if I ask out loud. Freaks my wife out a bit but so be it.

I think if the Lord were standing beside me right now he would agree that man has taken his bride. His innocent virginal sweet church, and transformed her into the painted ***** of Babylon. But that is just my opinion, YMMV.

[LawrenceA]

Well said

[dverna]

Cannot add much to what either dtknowles or GhostHawk posted. M-Tecs has a valid point as well.

Look at the United Methodist Church. Torn apart by homosexuality and using the same Bible to justify their positions.

If God's word is absolute...we are able to twist it to fit our "needs". And each position can be argued by referencing scripture. It is a minefield.

I let the Holy Spirit guide me. Do NOT confuse religion or the church with God. Man can NOT be trusted. Religion and churches are guided by men. Trust God to give you divine inspiration...more so than the Bible. He would not need the Holy Ghost if the Bible was all we needed to find Him.

[1hole]

It is with great trepidation I enter this arena.

Welcome aboard! No need to trepidate, no one here is going to attack you. Honest questions and opinions are welcome, it's only the disingenuous "pot stirring" pettiness of some folk that gets laughed at but no one here seems to get angry.

Let me comment on your list, one point at a time:


His word may be absolute. But we do not have his absolute word...... Simple example.:

* The Gospel according to Saint James says it was an apple tree in the garden of Eden. In Italy the tree is often portrayed as a fig tree.

* .. many words have a double or changed meaning. Once upon a time a ******(rhymes with maggot) was only a bundle of kindling.


Mostly true, in effect, BUT they're trivial variations and therefore meaningless to anyone's understanding of the gospel message.


* ...the Bible says Mary was a virgin. Originally this was written in ancient Greek where the word for virgin is the same as young woman.

True for the Greeks perhaps but Matt 1:23 is referring to Isaiah 7:14, check that and you'll see there is no ambiguity about what was meant.


* One bible has 3 kings or 3 shepherds depending on the gospel, another 3 magi and 3 shepherds. There is an insurmountable difference between a magi (A type of really smart clergyman from Persia) and a King.

* The Romans did not crucify thieves. Political dissidents and the like were usually crucified, amongst others, but not thieves.

* It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle. In ancient times the "eye of the needle" was a small gate in a city wall. A camel could be forced to crawl through. Similar message but not the same intensity.
There are many, many more.

Again, no matter what the original was, it's meaningless to us now because no Christian doctrine is affected or changes what the stories are clearly about.


* When you die you go to heaven. No you don't you have to wait and then just maybe.

No, we don't have to wait and there is absolutely no "maybe". At death we immediately go to whichever destination we have chosen for ourselves; heaven or hell is our personal decision, not God's. Hell is simply the default destination for those who die rejecting the gospel. See John 3:17-18 to understand and see that there is no need to wait or wonder about condemnation.


* There is room for everyone in heaven. No there isn't there is room for 144,000 in heaven being 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. It is a quota system. Well so the word implies.

I don't see that implication at all and there's no lottery involved. What the Bible says is God will select 12,000 Jews from each of the 12 tribes of Abraham who will then go forth as Christ's missionaries to the world. Those who teach that only the 144K go to heaven or just their religion will be in heaven teach wrongly. And, there is nothing to suggest the Jewish 144K will be the only active evangelists at that time.


* According to Leviticus (and Deutoronomy to I think) you will go to hell for wearing cloth of mixed fiber or sowing mixed crops. Anyone wear Poly-cotton or have a veggie patch?

* Leviticus also has you going to hell for wearing clothes belonging to the other gender. I have potentially cursed my wife to eternal damnation for giving her my coat to wear.

Your wife is safe. The ONLY sin that won't be forgiven is ignoring the Holy Spirit's testimony for Jesus to the hearts of all men. God judges the heart of men - and women - based on the light they have been given, not what jacket they have been given.

What you've done here is badly mix the O.T. covenant (Laws of Moses) given to the Jews at that time in with the proper (New Testament) laws for today's Christians; that's a BIG change in understanding salvation! Messiah brought us a New Testament in His blood specifically because the old laws saved no one ... and was never meant to do so. See Matt 26:28 and Luk 22:20.


* The goal the writer had, was to deliver the correct message.

Very true. And, although some word spelling and meanings, the names of some people and some places, etc., have indeed changed over thousands of years, and through many translations, God proves his own hand by protecting his intended message. Through it all, it's a wonder to me that nothing of importance has been changed a bit.

That's not to say some so-called Bible "translations" aren't just evil corruptions; the Jehovah Witnesses' "New Word Translation" leaps to mind. The NWT is not a translation at all, it's just a corruption of the KJV that they devised in the 1940s/50s to give their late "pope" (Charles Russell) something to prop his very wrong teachings on; there's some bad juju in doing that!

Bottom line, the Bible is a big book that was written and copied by hand over a very long time. While we may rightly puzzle over disconnected bits and pieces of Biblical trivia, there is precious little of significance to "interpret"; the important stuff is clear as a bell.

[Blackwater]

Absolute? Of course it is!!! Where would be an appeals court from God's decision??? It doesn't exist, and it's perfect. And His judgment is perfect as well. It's OUR judgment and thinking that fails, not His! Those who think they're supposed to understand and approve of everything God is and does, do NOT know Him very well at all. He is the creator, and we the created. Since when has the created gone beyond the creator???? It's impossible. But some folks will be determined to think whatever crazy thoughts they wish. This is one of the reasons Christ warned us of hubris - excessive, destructive, prideful self elevation above our rightful and apt place in the scheme of things. He gave us a big brain so that we could perceive many things, and work out problems that will always arise on this mortal plain. He did NOT give it to us for us to worship, and stretch beyond its natural limits! God is God, and we are His creations - lesser entities that seem to be very prone to mistakes of all kinds. The worst is probably counting on ourselves and our limited minds, rather than His grace and love and mercy. But I guess everyone has to do something????

[Tenbender]

When you find the proper interpretation of God's words let us know.

If the absolute meaning of the Bible was clear it would be hard to misinterpret it.

Tim
God let's you understand what your capable of. If you could understand it all at one time you would get bored with it. Open your mind and heart and you will see what I'm talking about.

[wv109323]

You can not take worldly viewpoints to prove that world viewpoints are correct and true.
Einstien made some mistakes in his book . In one calculation, he did not include the earths rotation in the flight of a projectile. But to the person with just this book will maintain the calculation is correct.
Now back to the Bible. No two languages are totally interchangeable. There are words in one where there is no exact translation, so it is a "meaning for meaning" type translation. In other words the same idea is conveyed to the reader.
You put your steaks on the barbie and I put mine on the grill. You may head to the outback but I head to the country.
So each word is not critical to portray a meaning.
I ask you to do two things that will help you:
Love the brethern
Love God with all your heart and do not serve idols.

[dtknowles]

……...So each word is not critical to portray a meaning.
I ask you to do two things that will help you:
Love the brethern
Love God with all your heart and do not serve idols.

You vocabulary makes your statements unclear.

Brethren-who are they?

All your heart-how is that?

If you love God with all your heart what have you left to love the brethren.

Tim

[1hole]

???? Say what .... ?

[Hogtamer]

My understanding may be small and I may be linguistically challenged; I have no trouble identifying wolves in sheeps's clothing however, and understand the imperative to put on the whole armor of God every time I venture into this forum.

[Butchman205]

My 2¢...
Years ago at the church we regularly attended and served, there was a push by the single (unwed) pastor to dive deeper and deeper and deeper in the Word...to the point that there was almost a fistfight at a Bible study over the exact and specific meaning of a verse.
When I got the room calmed down, I suggested, “There’s some folks with 2-3 kids that live not a mile down the road, and their house burned down last night...we need to be spending all this effort trying to help them instead of fighting over a SPECIFIC AND EXACT meaning of a vague verse.”
I was told that family is just a bunch of crack-heads, and not worth fooling with.

We left that church not long after that. My wife had grown up there, her great-granddad donated the land and and had some of his sawmills shut down for several weeks to go build the church...so it was very tough for her to leave.

After several visits to other churches, we found one that states their specific goal is to help EVERY single member find their gift, equip them well, and support them in their ministry.

I’m a guy that prefers to spend more effort on helping folks, than fighting over what a vague verse “means”.
Guess what? Folks can tell if you’re in it for you, in it to look like pious know-it-all, or just want to learn more about living a good life and INTENTIONALLY look for someone you can help daily...and thank them for letting you help them, because they’re actually helping you more than you’re helping them.

I jokingly refer to myself as “Butch The Magnificent And Humble”. HAHAHAHA!!!
-This is a joking way of poking fun at the folks that take the utmost pride in being not just good church members...but want to be in charge of everything, and recognized for what all they do. They can have the recognition, I’d rather move on and find someone else to help.

[bangerjim]

The Bible, any version, is man's interpretation of what they think they heard and was done. Over the years many "learned" (!?!?!) men have added to and taken away from what earlier men wrote and said. It is all man's words transcribed by them in what they "knew" was a gift to them from God.

Today, with the many MANY versions of the Bible, you have to make your own decisions. And rely on the conversations you have personally with God in prayer to decide for yourself.

Personally I use only the King James version. Grew up with is and like it. One verse that always chaps my hide is in the Christmas Story where, in these "new revised modern" versions they state, ".....you will find the child laying in a feed trough wrapped in bands of clothing." OMG! How can they murder that classic that way.

Keep the faith, brother, no matter what it is................and were you read it!

banger

ps: as my old departed buddy used to say, "Everybody should have something to believe in. I believe I'll have another beer!"

[Traffer]

If God is absolute, what would that indicate about his word.

[1hole]

... One verse that always chaps my hide is in the Christmas Story where, in these "new revised modern" versions they state, ".....you will find the child laying in a feed trough wrapped in bands of clothing." OMG! How can they murder that classic that way.

I don't understand. A manger is a feeding trough for farm animals and swaddling cloths are strips of old fabric that poor jews used as cleaning cloths and also used to wrap around infants; what's bad about that?

[dtknowles]

I don't understand. A manger is a feeding trough for farm animals and swaddling cloths are strips of old fabric that poor jews used as cleaning cloths and also used to wrap around infants; what's bad about that?

I think his point was why dumb it down from a college vocabulary to a middle school vocabulary and remove the poetic sense of the more common version.

The KJV is such a more moving story.

Tim

[1hole]

I think....

Ah, you think?

My question was to him who actually knows what he meant but I thank you for generously sharing your thinking and putting words into his mouth even tho that's not sanitary. :)

[bangerjim]

I personally like the poetic literary flairs of the KJV and the way things are stated in Olde English. I just grew up reading and memorizing that version. Read what you like. I could care less what version you read. At least you ARE reading the Bible, unlike most people in America today!

banger

[DickelDawg]

Absolutely!!

[WILCO]

So, is the word of God absolute????


Yes and so is the U.S. Constitution.

[frkelly74]

Absolutely!

[Wayne Smith]

Yes and so is the U.S. Constitution.

No the Constitution can be and has been amended. added to. God's word is absolute unlike the Constitution - there are no amendments to it.

[1hole]

No the Constitution can be and has been amended. added to. God's word is absolute unlike the Constitution - there are no amendments to it.

Roger that. But only God knows how many people (and even whole denominations) have tried to do so.

Those who wrongly spout about the Bible, "I believe this but I don't believe that ...", (As if what they do or don't believe matters to God!) are making petty antichrists of themselves AND anyone foolish enough to be influenced by them! There is some really bad spiritual juju in that.

[1hole]

I personally like the poetic literary flairs of the KJV and the way things are stated in Olde English. I just grew up reading and memorizing that version.

Me too. But, things change and I'm flexible about things that don't really matter. My grandchildren grew up on newer (actually more correct) translations than my old Scofield KJV and they in turn are training my great grandchildren on current versions; I like that too.

[Wayne Smith]

The earliest documents available to the translators of the KJV dated to the 5th or late 4th centuries. We now have documents dating to the early 2nd century and clearly have closer to the original for our newer translations. For the Old Testament we have documents dating to the first century BC. This is remarkable and shows the consistency of the copyists over the centuries. The only major error was the end of the Gospel of Mark in the KJV and this has been corrected, even in the NKJV.

I started memorizing in the KJV as it was the only English available to me at the time. Since college and Grad school whenever I study I have at least three translations open in front of me. The nuances of the original are more available that way. As a result I cannot quote a scripture easily because I combine translations. (I do not read or speak the original languages)

As an example of the problems of translation - no language translates one on one - I was once on a Missions Conference Committee at our Church in NH. We decided on our theme verse for the conference and I asked the committee which translation they wanted to use? They looked at me blankly, so I offered to find out the variations of the verse (I think it was in Galatians, but don't remember). This was before the internet, by the way. From my library I found 27 different readings of the verse, all saying the same thing but with varying emphasis. Three (original and two alternate) of the readings were from the NIV Study Bible which gave two marginal readings. Translation is not a simple task and decisions have to be made along the way which of the possibilities should we choose here. Usually the strongest or linguistically most consistent is chosen, but sometimes theology drives the choice.

The story of the Bible, God's plan of salvation, is plain and consistent. The character of God is consistent and plain. The fine details are sometimes in question.

[exile]

Should I comment on this thread? Yes / No I mean, you guys probably already know what I would say, so, no. Hope you all have a good day!

exile

[1hole]

.... you guys probably already know what I would say, so, no. Hope you all have a good day!

Interesting comment. You're commenting to tell us you aren't going to comment? Well, this is the first time you've appeared on this thread so .... ??? I, for one, have no idea what you might say but it's kind of you to tell us you won't comment.

Hope you have a nice day too.

[Rizzo]

Roger that. But only God knows how many people (and even whole denominations) have tried to do so.

Those who wrongly spout about the Bible, "I believe this but I don't believe that ...", (As if what they do or don't believe matters to God!) are making petty antichrists of themselves AND anyone foolish enough to be influenced by them! There is some really bad spiritual juju in that.
Cheesh!
Now you are calling people an antichrist for not believing every word of the Bible.
Where do you get that thinking?

"Bad spiritual juju" eh?
LOL!!
This coming from someone who makes snarky, mocking and insulting comments about other's belief in Karma.
Juju is a folk magic in West Africa.
Why not use a more relative term that is supported in the Bible.
It is called Karma.

[1hole]

Cheesh!
Now you are calling people an antichrist for not believing every word of the Bible.
Where do you get that thinking?

"Bad spiritual juju" eh?
LOL!!
This coming from someone who makes snarky, mocking and insulting comments about other's belief in Karma.
Juju is a folk magic in West Africa.
Why not use a more relative term that is supported in the Bible.
It is called Karma.

Antichrist: anyone who offers a different path to God than His way while claiming to be a (small "c") christian but deny orthodox (Biblical) Christianity is offering up an alternate (small "g") god, is in fact a (small "a") antichrist; I get that from scripture.

Bad "juju" is often used to describe the bad life effects of bad spiritual teaching. Are you offended by that common application of Africa's animistic word?

Do you actually take Hindu "Karma" serious? There's no Karma, as it's properly defined, in scripture. We have a delightful young Indian family (committed Christians) in my small church; they sure don't take Karma - or reincarnation - serious. Nor are they they respectful of some of the rest of their scattered family's wacky (their word) Hindu beliefs.

So, I once asked someone here who, or what, is in control of dispensing Karma and you think that's "snarky"? Okay, but I think you're more than a bit hypersensitive; are you a modern PC snowflake? (And I'll note that I've not yet seen an answer to my question.)

[a danl]

When you find the proper interpretation of God's words let us know.

If the absolute meaning of the Bible was clear it would be hard to misinterpret it.

Tim

tim, why do you always feel that you have to jump in with a negative remark. why don't you keep them to yourself. you have nothing to add with your way of thinking. the bible speaks for itself and it does not change, because it is written and God does not change ever and He does not lie..

[dtknowles]

tim, why do you always feel that you have to jump in with a negative remark. why don't you keep them to yourself. you have nothing to add with your way of thinking. the bible speaks for itself and it does not change, because it is written and God does not change ever and He does not lie..

First look again at what I wrote. It is not negative but observational. I did not say the bible is bad, just that it is subject to interpretation. In the context of the discussion about the word of God being absolute, that seems appropriate and not negative. Yes, the bible speaks for itself but it does change as much discussion in this thread reveals. Even with those changes the major points of the bible do remain pretty constant. I don't know how you can know that God does not change. The Bible reveals God mind does change for example the New Covenant. While things on Earth often seem troubled, I wonder if God did not change his mind about the end of times. It seems to have been put off a long time, maybe God will give Humans a reprieve. Let us struggle for a few more millennia. We do have some serious challenges but they seem to be something we could manage.

Tim

[Wag]

Occasionally, a title catches my eye. As a former believer, no atheist, I generally don't writ much in religious threads. My experience with religion was always negative but, for what it's worth, I've since encountered a lot of genuinely wonderful people who are believers. That said, there are still those who spend more time contending with each other over minutiae than they do living their religion. Most Christians seem to get it right, though.

I don't remember the religion in as much detail as I did 20 years ago. There was a time when I knew the Bible inside out and backward. So, as I read the thread title, the verse that came to mind was:

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." --Matthew 10:16

(Yes, I had to Google it up to get the wording and the citation! Like I said, it's been a while.......)

Most philosophical and scriptural references are subject to interpretation. This one applies here to suggest that not everything is available to us in a book or two, not readily known by any one particular person or minister, not easily understood in a general sense. Certainly, no black and white interpretation can be had with any subject material.

So, Jesus is quoted in the New Testatment saying that we have to use our own heads for living in the world. And that suggests that the word of god, as you may believe it, is not so absolute. If god is telling use to think for ourselves, we can't assume that he told anyone everything there is to know. IIRC, there are over 60 authors in the Bible we know about. Each had their own perspective, insight, intuition, eyes-on encounters, etc. They imputed their own ideals and thoughts. If they were all quoting a benevolent god, then they would have been a lot more consistent and less contradictory.

Anyhoo, there is surely no way to take the Bible as absolute. The things we have in our lives today didn't exist 2,000+ years ago. That means we have to impute the words of the Bible for our purposes but in the end analysis, Christianity is so fractured into so many sects, many of whom truly hate each other, that we can't know what the absolute word of god really is.

Very UN-Christian of the Christian churches.

And truly not absolute.

--Wag--

[a danl]

Occasionally, a title catches my eye. As a former believer, no atheist, I generally don't writ much in religious threads. My experience with religion was always negative but, for what it's worth, I've since encountered a lot of genuinely wonderful people who are believers. That said, there are still those who spend more time contending with each other over minutiae than they do living their religion. Most Christians seem to get it right, though.

I don't remember the religion in as much detail as I did 20 years ago. There was a time when I knew the Bible inside out and backward. So, as I read the thread title, the verse that came to mind was:

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." --Matthew 10:16

(Yes, I had to Google it up to get the wording and the citation! Like I said, it's been a while.......)

Most philosophical and scriptural references are subject to interpretation. This one applies here to suggest that not everything is available to us in a book or two, not readily known by any one particular person or minister, not easily understood in a general sense. Certainly, no black and white interpretation can be had with any subject material.

So, Jesus is quoted in the New Testatment saying that we have to use our own heads for living in the world. And that suggests that the word of god, as you may believe it, is not so absolute. If god is telling use to think for ourselves, we can't assume that he told anyone everything there is to know. IIRC, there are over 60 authors in the Bible we know about. Each had their own perspective, insight, intuition, eyes-on encounters, etc. They imputed their own ideals and thoughts. If they were all quoting a benevolent god, then they would have been a lot more consistent and less contradictory.

Anyhoo, there is surely no way to take the Bible as absolute. The things we have in our lives today didn't exist 2,000+ years ago. That means we have to impute the words of the Bible for our purposes but in the end analysis, Christianity is so fractured into so many sects, many of whom truly hate each other, that we can't know what the absolute word of god really is.

Very UN-Christian of the Christian churches.

And truly not absolute.

--Wag--

wag, if you could , would you try to find the quote where Jesus said that we have to use our own heads for living in the world. i don't recall ever coming across that saying. also , why are you a former believer , did something turn you away ?

[exile]

"I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my portion of food."

Job 23:12 (E.S.V.)

Yes, I believe that God's Word, the Bible, is divinely inspired when read or spoken aloud in a good translation (not a paraphrase).

Not trying to tell you which version to read, you can figure that out for yourself.

I also believe that to properly understand and accept God's word into our hearts leading to saving faith in Jesus Christ our Lord, we need to have our hearts, our minds and our spirits illuminated by His Holy Spirit in an attitude of repentance and humility so that we can understand what He is saying to us in His word. Only then can we truly be blessed by His gospel message.

Is my heart always in the right place when I read His word? Of course not! That is why I am ever thankful for His blood shed on the cross for my sins, and for yours, if you are willing to accept His offer of salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.

Have you accepted Christ into your heart today? If not, I pray that you will do so now. Accept His offer of mercy today.

We are given this moment in time to respond to His voice. None of us are promised tomorrow.

What will your answer be?

Luke 23:43.

exile

[1hole]

Yes, I believe that God's Word, the Bible, is divinely inspired when read or spoken aloud in a good translation (not a paraphrase).
exile

"Paraphrase" seems to be a four letter word for a lot of people but every translation of anything from one language to another is, by definition, a "paraphrase." If that weren't true there could be no translation of anything at all and the original would have to stay original.

The most obvious "paraphrase" is when the translator has to choose what he thinks is best from several words that seem to mean what he believes the original was trying to convey; sometimes translators miss the mark but rarely so far off to matter much.

Some glaring examples of "error" from the KJV include "thou shalt not kill" - first, there was no royal "thee, thou, thine" in Hebrew and, second, it should have said "thou shalt not commit murder", that one word error, kill vs. murder, may seem small but it makes a massive difference in life application. And the KJV "Holy Ghost" should read "Holy Spirit"; he is NOT a "ghost"! There is much more but that's enough for now.

Old Hebrew writing didn't have vowels, periods, commas, periods, question marks, paragraphs or chapters. The writing ran from right to left and scroll books read from back to front, etc. Try making a perfect word-for-word translation of anything into English from all that! And, even if you could overcome all that, you would still face formatting the original languages into English, our grammar is vastly different. You couldn't translate anything in the Bible if the original grammar wasn't rearranged - aka, paraphrased - so it could make sense in English.

All of that means translations of anything must, of necessity, be a paraphrase of the original language, thus paraphrase is not a dirty word. What matters is not the specific words or sentence construction, it's the original message that matters. I know of no serious Bible translation or so-called paraphrase - including the KJV - that gets the gospel message wrong.

(The proper tolerance of honest translation viewpoints does NOT extend to pretend "translations" such as the Jehovah Witness' diabolical "New Word Translation" and others of that ilk.)

[Wag]

wag, if you could , would you try to find the quote where Jesus said that we have to use our own heads for living in the world. i don't recall ever coming across that saying. also , why are you a former believer , did something turn you away ?

That's not one I'm familiar with.

If anything turned me away, it was the failure of the promises that god would answer my prayers. After growing up and living in the religion, at age 34, it was pretty clear that no answers were forthcoming.

Then, after a year (and since then) of my life improving dramatically, there has never been any doubt that I made the right decision.

--Wag--

[a danl]

That's not one I'm familiar with.

If anything turned me away, it was the failure of the promises that god would answer my prayers. After growing up and living in the religion, at age 34, it was pretty clear that no answers were forthcoming.

Then, after a year (and since then) of my life improving dramatically, there has never been any doubt that I made the right decision.

--Wag--

wag, god sometimes answers prayers in a way that we would never guess or maybe even understand. maybe he did answer your prayers and you don't even know. i don't say this to be argumentative but to encourage you . please don't give up on god , he sent his only son jesus to die for our sins, which is much more needed than anything else we could ask for. god works on his time schedule , not always ours. i would hope that you would take the time to read ephesians chapter 2 verses 1 thru 10.. take care

[Wag]

wag, god sometimes answers prayers in a way that we would never guess or maybe even understand. maybe he did answer your prayers and you don't even know. i don't say this to be argumentative but to encourage you . please don't give up on god , he sent his only son jesus to die for our sins, which is much more needed than anything else we could ask for. god works on his time schedule , not always ours. i would hope that you would take the time to read ephesians chapter 2 verses 1 thru 10.. take care

Please don't take offense, however, this is the exact same canned answer I've heard a hundred times over the years.

I did expect it, though. And no, I never truly felt like god had to give me the answer I wanted, only an answer I could understand and know that it came from him. Never did happen, though.

--Wag--

[JShipwash]

Yes the WORD of THE BIBLE is absolute and infallible WORD of GOD!! There is NO OTHER GOD or true WORD!! I know I was an Atheist till I read it. Saved me because it’s not just words. ITS ALIVE AND ETERNAL

[.429&H110]

Poll question- Is the Word of God absolute?- For me, yes indeed.

a danl asks
..."find the quote where Jesus said we have to use our own heads..."

Mark 12:30 (Greatest Commandment)

King James Bible
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

...all thy mind... He does not need mindless slaves.

always glad I am to help.

I miss Church.

[1hole]

Men say they prayed but God didn't answer their prayers; they are wrong, I have come to realize that God answers all prayers. He has three answers to every one of our prayers; "Yes", "No" and "Later", but He isn't a sock puppet for anyone.

In my 80 years, I've seen enough "Yes" to know He hears me and, from that knowledge, I've come to accept that from His knowledge of the future he knows the best answer to what I want so when He says "No" or, "Later", I can accept his judgement in full confidence that He has a better idea than mine.

[a danl]

Men say they prayed but God didn't answer their prayers; they are wrong, I have come to realize that God answers all prayers. He has three answers to every one of our prayers; "Yes", "No" and "Later", but He isn't a sock puppet for anyone.

In my 80 years, I've seen enough "Yes" to know He hears me and, from that knowledge, I've come to accept that from His knowledge of the future he knows the best answer to what I want so when He says "No" or, "Later", I can accept his judgement in full confidence that He has a better idea than mine.

i'll say amen to that, and i want you to know you have me by 2 years. yes god is good , always

[1hole]

i'll say amen to that, and i want you to know you have me by 2 years. yes god is good , always

My brother, I won't hold your youth and inexperience against you! :)

[a danl]

My brother, I won't hold your youth and inexperience against you! :)

thank you , i really appreciate it....

[JShipwash]

Men say they prayed but God didn't answer their prayers; they are wrong, I have come to realize that God answers all prayers. He has three answers to every one of our prayers; "Yes", "No" and "Later", but He isn't a sock puppet for anyone.

In my 80 years, I've seen enough "Yes" to know He hears me and, from that knowledge, I've come to accept that from His knowledge of the future he knows the best answer to what I want so when He says "No" or, "Later", I can accept his judgement in full confidence that He has a better idea than mine.
Amen I agree

[ioon44]

Is the Word of God absolute? Absolutely.

Does God answer prayers? Yes, people sometimes only want to listen to the answer they want to hear.

[Blackwater]

The Bible, any version, is man's interpretation of what they think they heard and was done. Over the years many "learned" (!?!?!) men have added to and taken away from what earlier men wrote and said. It is all man's words transcribed by them in what they "knew" was a gift to them from God.

Today, with the many MANY versions of the Bible, you have to make your own decisions. And rely on the conversations you have personally with God in prayer to decide for yourself.



Well, you make the Bible out to be very imprecise and materially changed through the years. But most learning back during its most critical years was through memorization, and they were QUITE fastidious that all the words were learned properly, and passed on without any changes. And as to what was written down, do you realize that one of the dead sea scrolls was found to be a near exact word for word version of one of the books of the Bible? If one book is passed down unchanged in any material detail, why would one expect the rest to be bastardized and unreliable???? That's just not a rational stance to take. We may not understand just exactly HOW it was preserved, but we'd have to be fools to not perceive that it's virtually unchanged. We can have faith in it because God, by whichever of His powers He used, HAS preserved it, just for us, IF we choose to pick it up and read and study it.

One fault many have is assuming their initial impression is the correct one, and when they use that erroneous or at least imperfect "understanding" as the basis for further interpretation, serious misunderstandings can and do arise. Steadfastly holding to one interpretation, and arguing it to the hilt, brings about an awful lot of needless dissension.

If only we'd learn that humility - not mousiness, but straight, honest humility - is the key to understanding much of the scriptures, we'd be so much the richer and better for it!

God let us learn to be humble, so we can better understand you, and hear your directions. Thank you, and Amen.

[Blackwater]

That's not one I'm familiar with.

If anything turned me away, it was the failure of the promises that god would answer my prayers. After growing up and living in the religion, at age 34, it was pretty clear that no answers were forthcoming.

Then, after a year (and since then) of my life improving dramatically, there has never been any doubt that I made the right decision.

--Wag--

Wag, I am very sorry that you lost your faith. But it doesn't have to be gone forever. I believe that you simply misinterpreted God's words, most likely for your own reasons, like wanting things to be one way when He made them another. As to answering your prayers, sometimes God answers with a "No," and we have to realize that He knows so much more than we do, that His decisions are always the best for us. What we WANT is not always what's good for us. I'm sure you're familiar with that principle, aren't you? And we're all His creations, and He has the perfect right to take any or all of us at any time of His choosing. Yes, children die, and many suffer and are lost. He has wisely created a world where not one of us can count on seeing tomorrow. This is intended to keep us wary, and keep us close to Him, lest we be lost, and lose Heaven, which He created just for us.

Our God, the God of Christianity, is a very wise and loving God who watches over us, and does even the hard things that we might see and know and believe. He watches out over us many, many times when we won't even rightly watch over ourselves. And through it all, our attitudes are what drives most of our behaviors, and those are based on our perceptions. The biggest problem occurs when we perceive things through the prism of our wants and expectations, and not by simply looking for what's real, and lasting and true. Simple humility - the attitude most appropriate for the created toward the Creator - is the key to most all interpretations of the Bible, and our decisions to follow or not follow God's excellent direction and advice. Each one of us must make that decision. It is inevitable. And being mortal, some will make it wisely, and some whimsically, and some even, very foolishly. Many simply don't have the right attitude to understand the truth about God's words. But the meaning is always there, for those who truly seek it. And thank God for that!

[Blackwater]

Wag, please understand that God is NOT some big sugar daddy in the sky that grants our every wish if we believe. As it says in the Bible, it will rain on the just and the unjust alike. Faith just gives believers a way of coping that the profane cannot have. Christians enjoy a type of joy that non-believers cannot know. And though many read the Bible from the perspective of mankind, that's not the way true understanding of it is wrought. Understanding the Bible usually involves looking at matters more like Christ sees them, and His vision is often very different than ours. We typically just want what we want, and want everything to be easy and pleasurable. He wants us to learn and to grow, and often allows us to suffer, so that we might look at things harder and differently, and come to understand Him more thoroughly and completely, at least in the comparative sense. We can never quite know what He knows, nor see how He sees, but we can come close enough to discover some real and valuable lessons. He gave us all we really need, or can absorb, in the Bible, but it's not easy to understand how He meant many things to be interpreted in it. It must come with time and study and humble consideration. Your faith is not lost. You just laid it down for a while. If you ever really knew Him, or had real faith in Him, you may lay it down, but it can never be quite "lost." Maybe a review is in order for you now? Don't let the nihlistic cynicism that floats about seemingly everywhere these days dissuade you. Sometimes, the 2nd time's the charm!