.451 casting frustration.

[nagantino]

As the lock-down continues I set today aside to cast .451 for the PH Volunteer. I cast for 9mm, .45acp, .38, .303 Br, and slug for shotgun. I’m not new to casting, but casting for the .451 is frustrating. I use almost pure lead and let the equipment heat up. I let the Pedersoli mould heat up either by filling with lead or dipping it into the alloy. The wrinkled bullets soon disappear but the problem of poor fill-out on one side of the mould persists. I eventually began to get usable boolits but only 15 or so, and I’ve rejected as many more. Could it be the slow rate of pour on the Lee pot? Has anyone drilled the hole bigger?

[Dusty Bannister]

Are you using a bottom pour pot? Sometimes the flow is a little slow with some bottom pour pots with the level of the melt below half full. Try pressure casting by placing the sprue plate against the nozzle of the pot. Is it a Lee 10 or 20 pound pot?

[Tatume]

Nearly pure lead casts better when the temperature is higher. When casting ML bullets I run the pot so hot the lead turns blue on the surface of the pot. It oxidizes badly, but produces good bullets. Fortunately, I don't cast thousands of them.

[44Blam]

Are you using a bottom pour pot? Sometimes the flow is a little slow with some bottom pour pots with the level of the melt below half full. Try pressure casting by placing the sprue plate against the nozzle of the pot. Is it a Lee 10 or 20 pound pot?

Iv'e noticed this with big boolits. Maybe not 1/2 way down the pot, but when there is only an inch or two the pressure becomes a bit low and it gets hard to get good fill out.

Also with big boolits, I find it takes a little while to get the cadence right - especially if I've been casting small boolits. I've been casting a lot of 40 cal pistol boolits recently. The other weekend, I went and cast a pile of 400 grain 45s. It took me a little while to get the mold up to temp and then to keep the mold from getting too hot. I had to just slow it all down - wich is fine because at 400 grains, I tend to drain a pot pretty quickly.

[Martin Luber]

Pure lead also shrinks on cooling. In addition to others recommendations, you could pressure cast; put the sprueplate tight to the pot nipple, then fill. Pull away with the valve open to get a sprue puddle and to prevent nozzle clogging. Good luck

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I have better success with a Rowell ladle.

[vagrantviking]

Not familiar with those molds but could you have a venting problem?
Scrub the vent lines with a toothbrush or scrape them out with a toothpick or sharp awl.

[Bird]

I second what 44Blam says. Get the mold hotter, and maybe raise the pot temp to 760deg until you start getting good fill out. My RCBS 405 grain bullets, .458 dia, need a hot mold for complete fill out.

[nagantino]

Ok so thanks for the help everyone. After a lot of reading, I think my problem is the Lee bottom pour vent. I used the paper clip method of cleaning the pour and I kept the pot filled and plenty hot. Some improvement but he boolits were gritty and only a few were salvageable. Then the bottom pour just stopped pouring at all. So, rather than pack up for the night, I tired the little Lee ladle. What a surprise. Bright shiny projectiles well filled out, or at least much better that before. After reading about this, I can see a healthy debate over the whole Bottom pour vs ladle. I never us a ladle when casting pistol bullets. So a happy ending here, I will use a ladle for pure lead large boolits .451. I still have some issues with fill but it’s a huge improvement.
The pure lead creates some huge amounts of clay coloured rubble and fantastic colour in the lead.

[PNW_Steve]

Ok so thanks for the help everyone. After a lot of reading, I think my problem is the Lee bottom pour vent. I used the paper clip method of cleaning the pour and I kept the pot filled and plenty hot. Some improvement but he boolits were gritty and only a few were salvageable. Then the bottom pour just stopped pouring at all. So, rather than pack up for the night, I tired the little Lee ladle. What a surprise. Bright shiny projectiles well filled out, or at least much better that before. After reading about this, I can see a healthy debate over the whole Bottom pour vs ladle. I never us a ladle when casting pistol bullets. So a happy ending here, I will use a ladle for pure lead large boolits .451. I still have some issues with fill but it’s a huge improvement.
The pure lead creates some huge amounts of clay coloured rubble and fantastic colour in the lead.

I have been reading voraciously trying to get a bit of education before I start buying gear to start casting.

I have not seen much discussion of hand ladling vs bottom poor pot. I have only been looking at bottom poor pots as that is what I see others use.

Should I be considering a simple pot and ladle?

Thanks

[nagantino]

260804Here are a couple of the pics from the casting session.

[jugulater]

Bottom pour pots can be both fantastic and terrible. i used a ancient lyman bottom pour for a long time, but i found that it was not ideal for large boolits. after the old lyman kicked the bucket i bought a simple lee 20lbs pot and one of the nice big Lyman casting ladles and never looked back.

i pressure cast with the ladle and i see excellent results even with big .685 Minies. it may seem slow at first, but i can assure you with some practice you can cast just as fast with a ladle as you can with a bottom pour.

[fredj338]

I have no issue with my BP pots, Lee & my Magma. Just don't put scrap in them & never empty them. That is how crud gets into the pour spout. Try pressure casting & hotter lead temp. A very small amount of tin is helpful without adding any hardness to the bullet.

[Outpost75]

In my BP guns I use 1 to 40 tin-lead from Roto Metals and get sharp fill-out. Having only 2-1/2% tin does not harden the alloy appreciably. It obturates positively and consistently expands at black powder velocities with excellent weight retention. The Brinell Hardness scale of 40 to 1 alloy is approximately 7-8.

[Finster101]

Nothing wrong with bottom pour but you have to keep it clean. Keeping it above half full helps also.

[nagantino]

Finster, how do you keep the pot clean? When I cast pistol and revolver boolits the pot seems to look after itself, but now that I’m casting pure lead, the crud generated is substantial. I emptied the pot today so that I could clean the spout and the rod. The clag inside the pot was substantial including the rod. The hole for the lead to flow out is solid. I will get it back to working even if it means drilling a small hole. However, the ladle method was a revelation. The Lee ladle did it this time but I might invest in something else.

[Outpost75]

Finster, how do you keep the pot clean? When I cast pistol and revolver boolits the pot seems to look after itself, but now that I’m casting pure lead, the crud generated is substantial. I emptied the pot today so that I could clean the spout and the rod. The clag inside the pot was substantial including the rod. The hole for the lead to flow out is solid. I will get it back to working even if it means drilling a small hole. However, the ladle method was a revelation. The Lee ladle did it this time but I might invest in something else.

You are oxidizing the lead because your pot is too hot. Using the 1 to 40 tin-lead mix you don't need to run such a high temperature to get well-filled bullets. DO NOT let the melt temp exceed 750 degs. F to avoid oxidizing off the tin, which defeats the purpose.

[Wayne Smith]

The Lee ladle is way too small. Get the Lyman or RCBS ladle and if your pot is too small for the ladle get a gas burner and a 1qt SS pot from the used store and dip from that.

[owejia]

Ok so thanks for the help everyone. After a lot of reading, I think my problem is the Lee bottom pour vent. I used the paper clip method of cleaning the pour and I kept the pot filled and plenty hot. Some improvement but he boolits were gritty and only a few were salvageable. Then the bottom pour just stopped pouring at all. So, rather than pack up for the night, I tired the little Lee ladle. What a surprise. Bright shiny projectiles well filled out, or at least much better that before. After reading about this, I can see a healthy debate over the whole Bottom pour vs ladle. I never us a ladle when casting pistol bullets. So a happy ending here, I will use a ladle for pure lead large boolits .451. I still have some issues with fill but it’s a huge improvement.
The pure lead creates some huge amounts of clay coloured rubble and fantastic colour in the lead.

You have dirt[crud in your lead] clogging the bottom pour drain. Just went through this myself as my pure lead wasn't fluxed good and had a lot of crud to cause problems. For some reason the crud wanted to settle to the bottom instead of floating on top of the lead.

[onelight]

I have found that when emptying the pot pour the last 20% of the lead over the side don't run it through the spout
This has cured most of the clog and dribble problems I have had in the past.

[Rich/WIS]

Lead pipe can cause problems if not smelted at high temp and fluxed heavily, found this out when melting down about 500# of the stuff. Lead pipe, at least the stuff I had, has a coating build up on the inside that is mostly calcium from hard water as well as any other contaminants in the water system. Outside picks up anything it is buried in. Found I needed to let it sit a bit before skimming and then flux heavily at least twice to eliminate crud coming to the top when I cast RB with it, or used it as a base for alloying.