Lyman #2 alloy

[Gundogblue]

I’m back to casting after many many years, when I was a kid my dad used to cast and he’d send me out to the gas stations to scrounge wheel weights, then he’d go to the local hardware store and get a bar of 50/50 solder. He used 9 lbs wheel weights and 1 pound 50/50 bar solder to make the #2 alloy. Well yesterday my daughters fiancée who works at a tire shop brought me a 5 gallon bucket full of wheel weights. Back when I was a kid all the wheel weights were lead, not so today, but I watched a guy on You Tube, he said if you can cut into the wheel weights easily they’re lead, is that true ?
Also are there different types of 50/50 bar solder? If so which 50/50 bar solder should I get?
Right now I’ve been getting my #2 alloy on line, but I’d like to make my own #2 alloy but for the life of me, I can’t remember which type of 50/50 bar solder my dad used to get, hell its been close to 50 yrs! Any help on this will be greatly appriciated.
Paul

[RickinTN]

If the wheel weight will cut with side cutters they are usually lead. Today, with the antimony content in wheel weights, you can't get #2 alloy with your old mix. Lyman #2 consist of 5% antimony and 5% tin. Today's wheel weights only have about 2 1/2 to maybe 3% antimony. You'll have to add some sweetener such as Linotype or Monotype to get the Antimony content high enough. Wheel weights plus 2% tin will make you a pretty good all round alloy but won't be as hard as #2. I use lead free solder which is usually about 97% tin.
Good luck, and welcome back to the madness!
Rick

[Gundogblue]

Maybe it will help if I tell you the kind os shootin I do. I’m loading light cawboy loads under 1000 FPS out of my 1892=Winchester. The manual says in a revolver the load I use is 750 FPS, so figure another 100-200 FPS out of the rifle.
Thanks,
Paul

[RickinTN]

Paul,
Modern wheel weights plus 2% tin should work well for your shooting. You don't mention what cartridge your are shooting. Most of the time it is not the velocity of your loads which will call for a particular alloy but the pressure your loads develop. 50/50 solder would work for your tin source but keep in mind you would have to use twice as much of it vs lead free solder so I'm not sure there is any savings there. Also, buying solder at the hardware store is pretty pricey these days and I've noticed most of the home improvement stores don't even stock 1lb rolls any more. They sell it in quantities of a few ounces. I have cast with straight wheel weights before and it worked OK. They do have a small tin content already. If your mold will cast the wheel weight alloy without adding additional tin you should be good to go there. Many scrounge pewter at thrift stores to use for added tin. Most pewter is 97% tin. The last time I went looking for pewter I bought about 7 pounds for $23 or so. That is far less than the $40 something dollars a roll a plumbing supply house would want for lead free solder.
Good luck to you, and any more questions fire away!
Rick

[mehavey]

I’m loading light cowboy loads under 1000 FPS out of my 1892-Winchester. Don't try to harden then at all at that level. In fact shoot your wheelweights air-cooled... Soft and at groove + 1-2 thou diameter

[Bookworm]

I agree, at that low velocity and pressure, just shoot what you have.
It may want a touch of tin to help with fill out, but 1% by weight will usually do it.

[dale2242]

I have wheel weight lead ingots old and new.
My tin supply is solder drippings that I acquired from radiator shop years ago.
I have no idea of the antimony content of my wheel weights nor the tin content of my solder.
I mix 9 WW with 1 solder to get my generic Lyman #2.
It works fine in all my handguns.
I size my bullets .001 over bore diameter and get zero leading....dale

[northmn]

Lead has been banned in solder for plumbing so most solder is tin with possibly some silver or other alloy added. Also 1/2 pound or 8oz is equivalent in tin to 50/50. As mentioned it is also spendy. Another good way at lower velocities to avoid leading is with a surface lube like the Lee Liquid Alox which can be tumble lubed quickly but has to take a day to dry. It's still a good lube but the bullets will not be shiny looking new cast. I use the stuff on fairly soft 38-55 hunting loads with good results. Tin does help with the "flow" for better casting. The original bullets from before 1900 or maybe after were alloyed lead/tin and would be something like 20-1 or 30-1 etc. WW is similar in hardness ot these old alloys.

DEP

[Green Frog]

Good morning, Gundogblue. I too grew up in the days where we all strove to achieve the “standard” of Lyman #2, since this was the standard to which Ideal and Lyman moulds were generally cut. This was a time when wheel weights were mostly lead with a good dollop of tin and antimony, printing was done with hard alloys of lead, and all was well with the World.

My how things have changed over the last 50 years! Now the “Greenies” have told us that lead based wheel weights will kill purple spotted condors or some such and we have to use zinc or steel instead. Printing is done by computer and Linotype is nearly as hard to find as a phone booth (remember those?)

I have personally compensated by accumulating (and continuing to accumulate) all of the lead alloy of known composition I can find... lead sheathing and pipe and other near pure lead, lead free solder (which is nearly pure tin) and whatever old Linotype and Monotype I can scrounge for making really hard alloys. Unlike you, while my amount of casting has ebbed and flowed, I’ve kept a continuous quest for various sources of lead, so I kept a backlog. Your challenge today is to play catch-up and try to snatch up all of the lead based alloy you can, regardless of its actual composition, then as you need specific mixes, go into your stash and mix and match to get what you need.

As for the immediate use in your Winchester, previous posters have given good advice. Late production lead based clip on wheel weights as they come off the rim will do pretty well or you may have to add a bit of tin to get the bullets to fill out well. Otherwise, if you get pure lead and 50-50 or some other ratio (60-40, etc) of bar solder, a good starting mix to try would be an end ratio of 20-1 lead to tin, so as you can see, that bar solder will sweeten a lot of pure lead... doing the math off the top of my head you would be using a ratio of 9.5 lb of pure to a pound of 50-50 will give a ratio of ten pounds of lead to a half pound of tin which is 20-1 in whole numbers. You get the idea here.

All this math and typing is tough... I need more coffee!:coffeecom

Froggie

[mdi]

For quite a few years I used plain wheel weights before I started "alloying" or checking BHN. Most of my casting was for my 44 Magnums and the WW alloy did quite well with no need to add anything. Later I did add a bit of solder to aid fill out, but not to make my alloy "harder". I'd suggest K.I.S.S. and just clean/flux the wheel weights and use it as is.

Solder is (was?) made with a designation of tin and lead, so 50/50 solder is 50% tin and 50% lead. The ratio would vary for the intended use and IIRC, 60/40 was the popular, general use mix (60% tin, 40% lead), with variations for electronics and metal soldering...

[richhodg66]

For 750 FPS in a revolver, you could do fine with softer than wheel weights. I really think a lot of bullet casters over think alloy and hardness, you'll be fine with those loadings with just about anything you can get to cast well as long as it's sized and lubed properly.

Congratulations on getting back into it, nothing more fun than loading and shooting.

[Gundogblue]

I really want to thank all you guys for the education you just gave me, it is really greatly appriciated . Oh by the way the rnd I’m shooting is a .45 Colt. Everything is a lot clearer now, thanks again.
Paul

[Gundogblue]

I really want to thank all you guys for the education you just gave me, it is really greatly appriciated . Oh by the way the rnd I’m shooting is a .45 Colt. Everything is a lot clearer now, thanks again.
Paul

[Larry Gibson]

I never understood how or why Lyman came up with that formula for #2 alloy using 9 lbs WWs + 1 lb of 50/50 solder. Have to admit to having tried it many years ago and found it considerably different than a #2 alloy made with the other formula [ 4 lbs linotype/1 lb 50/50 solder/ 5 lbs pure lead] as it usually cast heavier and softer bullets. Even using the metal percentages on the same page of Lyman's CBHs you just can't come up with a 90/5/5 ternary alloy (what #2 alloy really is) using that WW/solder formula. You can get a very good alloy for probably 90% of cast bullet shooting needs mixing 9 1/2 lbs of COWWs with 1/2 lb of 50/50 solder. That is basically adding 2 1/2 % tin to the COWWs abd you end up with a very balanced ternary alloy close to 96/3/3. That alloy shoots very well air cooled of WQ'd. It also is and excellent alloy to mix 50/50 with pure lead for a 97/1.5/1.5 alloy which is an excellent AC'd alloy for most of my pistol/revolver bullets for general shooting and for hunting loads in rifles with velocities of 1850 - 2300 fps.

I've used the linotype/solder /lead formula to make #2 alloy for years with excellent results. I use this alloy for my match and HV bullets. It performs as well, if not better, than any other alloy.