300 whisper subsonic hunting boolits

[Scottish 45-70]

Looking for some advice on which would be the best cast bullet to use in a 300 whisper
For hunting that would expand
Thanks

[quilbilly]

Just a pure lead boolit that is 200 gr or heavier. That is what I use in my 308 for a subsonic boolit. Every barrel has a personality with CB's so you Weill just have to experiment.

[Scottish 45-70]

Thanks for reply
Stay safe

[Gamsek]

What weight and shape? I tested few in my .300BLK
from 130grs to 220grs.

[MrHarmless]

For cheap, Lee makes a 30 cal 200 grain mold that would expand decently with softer lead.

NOE Makes an HTC310-247 grain flat nose that would work well in 300 Blackout. The design can be had with hollow point pins, and would carry more energy at the same velocity.

If you want it really quite, you'll have to do a load workup to keep it under the speed of sound, so really the heavier the better.

[popper]

Mould and alloy aren't the trick. Hitting something moving 2 ft in the time it takes the boolit to get there is the real challenge. Actually about 5' consider the time to decide to pull the trigger - 100 yd target. Then add the 9" drop if sighted @ 50.

[PositiveCaster]

Hmmm, the OP asked about the best bullet to use, not what hunting process won’t work. All subsonic rounds have the same limitation of time-to-target. The answer is simple - shoot at stationary targets or learn your bullet’s behavior. Imagine what archers have to contend with....

As others have stated, given the limited velocity then heavy bullets are the answer. They take less time to reach the target, they have more energy to expend on expansion, and most barrels are rifled to handle them. Soft lead and a large hollowpoint will help a lot.


.

[38Special]

I'm going to try the infamous Lyman 284 299. Would like to hear more about your subsonic 308 quilbilly for sure.

[beltfed]

38 special,
Which one: The 311284/215 gr round nose or the 311299/200gr semi pointed?
And try to shoot it as fast as still accurate. Don't worry about it being subsonic
beltfed/arnie

[38Special]

I've got both ones.

Think the 299 casts out to .316".

[Scottish 45-70]

Thanks for that

[Scottish 45-70]

Cheers

[popper]

5% tin alloy will get you the expansion at slow speed. Heavy boolit just goes thru, not much expansion - takes fps to get it. 5-7gr of slow pistol powder will get it out of the barrel with a 'pop'. hp38 to cfe pistol. Will not cycle AR. Boolits take a LONGER time to target when slow. Hollow point on pure will just sluff off. Based on tests with snub 38sp. shot into water jugs. I did not do the tests but they are posted here. I did test 185gr 98/1/1 alloy on hog carcass @ ~1400 fps and did get some (minor) expansion.

[missionary5155]

Well I read all through and failed to read "what" you are going to hunt ??
A wabbit does not need much penetration. A 250 pound well fed corn crunching is another beasty.

[Scottish 45-70]

I will be hunting deer and wild goats they are not heavy game
This is why I was asking about expanding boolits for the 300 whisper
I’m all new to this as we don’t have a lot of info on the whisper in Scotland or the uk to tell the truth
All inf is greatly appreciated

[Scottish 45-70]

Thanks all for the reply’s
Much appreciated

[popper]

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=108125
"The tools of the trade a semi custom bolt action Tikka T3 rebarreled with a 12” 1:7 with Ti suppressor topped with a Aimpoint comp M4 zeroed in for 60m.
Ammo was 50 rounds of hand loaded subsonic Lehigh 168gr Controlled Fracturing for deer only.
150 rounds 208gr ELD subsonics for feral goats.
And 50 rounds of Nosler 125gr BT supersonics for both deer and goats."
Seems like he just used lehigh subs but cast at that weight should do the same.
8 gr of CFE pistol under a 145gr cast gives me 1350 fps,7 could get you sub with 170gr. Work down in charge!

[Petander]

I will be hunting deer and wild goats they are not heavy game
This is why I was asking about expanding boolits for the 300 whisper
I’m all new to this as we don’t have a lot of info on the whisper in Scotland or the uk to tell the truth
All inf is greatly appreciated

I'm sure you have verified your local legal requirements for hunting deer / goat.

Here in Finland we need a minimum 1700 Joules ( 1250 ftlbs) measured @ 100 meters for whitetail deer. And an expanding bullet,which a pure lead bullet is. That means the lightest possible subsonic bullet must weigh 550 grains. I used to have a suppressed 45-70 Marlin for that.

Using normal supersonic loads our rules mean a 243 or 30-30 are minimum deer legal,with expanding bullets again.

Legal or not,I personally would not shoot a whitetail with any 30 cal bullet @ 1000 fps. A roe deer maybe, they can be rabbit size.

[docmagnum357]

Ive killed a lot more deer with hot 44special mild 44 magnum loads than I have with rifles. I have killed deer with 45 acp. Shot placement is key. Yes, a bigger hole , as well as a bigger caliber makes 'em " sicker quicker". But a 22 long rifle subsonic will kill a deer grave yard dead out to as far as it will penetrate one broadside. We tend to replace hunting with equipment. I've seen deer blown apart with more bloodshot meat through the shoulders than I would care to throw to the dogs. One fellow said " Half a deer is better than no deer", meaning he had rather anchor it in its tracks and lose some meat than risk losing the whole animal. There is another option. Don't shoot until you are sure you can anchor them. Sometimes you still lose them but not very often. I once saw a man shoot a deer with 300 Weatherby ( one of my favorite cartridges by the way.) he found literally a handful of meat and bones that the bullet blew out the side of the deer but we never found the deer, even with the dogs. I suspect he might have been able to hit that deer in the neck or head with a mild, suppressed cartridge and anchor it, where the 300 WBY was just too much gun for his skill set.

With that said, it looks like the Barnes or Lehigh bullets are tops for actually expanding in the Whisper/ blackout. I'm going to be working up some loads for a friend who is a suppressor manufacture. Just started cutting off some 5.56 Lake City brass today to get started case forming. I'm going to be working with coated boolits to see what effect coated cast will have on the suppressor. I want to work up a good cast hollow point that will be accurate and will give some expansion. I'll try to remember to post what I find here on this thread. I am no genius and 300blk/Whisper is already pretty well developed if you search the net for data. Its Hard to find all the data and info you need or want in one place but it is out there.

I admire the OP for wanting to use the equipment he has chosen. Puts hunting ( or stalking in Scotland) back in the game. I'm going to be doing a lot of hunting with the 300blk this season myself. I still love to shoot across the holler ( or canyon for non hillbillies) but I find myself more and more grabbing something that is "adequate" and honing my skills 'til adequate gets smaller. Best of luck to the OP. I'll share what I find out, again, if I remember. Good stalking!
S.F.

[jaysouth]

For cheap, Lee makes a 30 cal 200 grain mold that would expand decently with softer lead.

NOE Makes an HTC310-247 grain flat nose that would work well in 300 Blackout. The design can be had with hollow point pins, and would carry more energy at the same velocity.

If you want it really quite, you'll have to do a load workup to keep it under the speed of sound, so really the heavier the better.

If you buy the C 309 200 gr RN, buy it from Midway. The first two I bought dropped at .306 and .307. Midway took them back with no questions and sent me a third one that dropped .309 which goes .311 after powder coat. Good bullet if the mold drops big enough.

[Hamish]

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=108125
"The tools of the trade a semi custom bolt action Tikka T3 rebarreled with a 12” 1:7 with Ti suppressor topped with a Aimpoint comp M4 zeroed in for 60m.

Ran across the term "Hilar shot" and went looking: https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz/f17/hilar-shot-55370/

[Screwbolts]

Thank you for sharing the Hilar Shot link

[Hamish]

You bet. It makes sense to me.

[bld451]

You bet. It makes sense to me.

The MP 311-235 HP seems to be a good fit if you are going to shoot bare or with Hitek. With powder coating, I need to nose size the bore-ride section. I chose that over the NOE due to the slightly pointier meplat. Some guys are having luck feeding the NOE, but I didn't want to chance it as I have 223 ramps on my AR.

Anyway, I tested the original and one with longer hp pins that I made. These three tracks (top down) are NOE HTC 153 at 1780 fps, MP 311-235 with as-supplied hp pins at 1043 fps, and MP 311-235 with longer pins at 1036. Both completely penetrated the 16" block. The original (229 grs as cast) retained all its weight. The long hp version (225 grs as cast) left all the nose pieces between 7-10" in, and a 157 grain slug continued through.

261433

261434

[bld451]

Here are a couple more photos...261435 nose pieces...

261436 tracks...
So... given that 300 blackout subs are about 10mm ballistics, energy-wise, choose your shots carefully. Not a huge wound channel, but at 1000 fps, you generally won't get that. Plenty of penetration and some energy transfer between 2-10 inches. I think the factory hp pins will give some permanent channel, and I would not have a problem using them. Each bullet seems to have it's own drawbacks with this subsonic hunting situation. There doesn't seem to be a perfect answer, so evaluate what you need and determine what you can live with for making it happen (getting a nose- sizer vs shooting conventional lube or Hi tek, getting 300 blk specific mags so these will function, opening your feed ramps to feed a bigger hp, ) a bolt gun definitely makes it easier.

My vote is the MP 235 for my situation. (8.5" AR)

FYI, alloy for all the bullets shown above was air cooled 50/50 (ww and pure) with 2% tin, aged 1-2 weeks.

[bld451]

I presume you will be hunting with a bolt action? If so the NOE 247 hollowpoint looks like a great choice. Pay attention to the nose diameter depending on how you plan to coat or lube them. The Lehigh and Maker commercial bullets are gaining quite a following but I can't stomach paying more than a dollar apiece for bullets. If you have a source of lead, these cast pills are economical enough that you can shoot them enough to get pretty familiar with the setup.

[Hamish]

Great posts bld,

Nothing better than actual testing with included pics. I don't remember seeing anyone make the heavy sub/10mm comparison before, nice way to frame it.

[gpidaho]

Following. Just ordered in a Ruger American Ranch in 300 Blackout today as a side to my Blackout AR upper. Thanks for the links. Gp

[bld451]

Great posts bld,

Nothing better than actual testing with included pics. I don't remember seeing anyone make the heavy sub/10mm comparison before, nice way to frame it.

Thanks Hamish. Now I need to decide. Make new pins not quite as long and more tapered or try a 25-1 or 40-1 mix? Is it even worth trying if this performance proves typical? If it had stayed together, how much penetration could I expect? As it is, that looks like a slow Nosler partition bullet channel to me. Some energy dump with a solid shank to punch through. I do prefer tracking when there are two holes leaking... might just leave it...

[Hamish]

261443

Just my opinion, but that big mushroom on the left looks perfect to me. Big hole in, bigger hole out,,,,,,,

[bld451]

261443

Just my opinion, but that big mushroom on the left looks perfect to me. Big hole in, bigger hole out,,,,,,,

It does look pretty good. I was thinking I could get it to open up a bit more but it did measure about .560 at the widest point. I used a rag box to catch the ones that went through, so I can't say what the total penetration was. It would be nice to know. I think I'll try to slow the deep one down 50-100 fps to see how close it was to hanging together. It would be really nice to see how big a diameter it ended up. Might not take much of a change to keep it together...261444

[Gamsek]

That MP 311-235 (I get 220grs) penetrated 45cm+ in wet paper when started at 1000fps and 1350fps (bigger channel) and were stoped by or logged in dry paper which served as a backstop. I already did 3 wet pack test (two alloys, two velocities) and always amazed about penetration. Straight penetration till the end, no tumbling from 1:7” twist on my Ruger Ranch BLK. It it the same penetration I get with 7mm 140grs TTSX (2950fps). I use same paper for all my tests, soaked for days.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200502/bcb48126edae69dff86298e8cb11ed42.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200502/3cf87ceeb752b6120acb71e97f5356ca.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200502/553e9606e5ceec807ff5c294ea9f15b1.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200502/3d3bc94326ba91af0cf4372a7fa2abad.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200502/17bfe83a4baecbcfbbd4d1f5a22e1e2e.jpg

I asked what weight or shape is he going to use because then he can be advised better.
I would advise him 130grs 311-410 HP, 151grs 312-159 HP Hunting, 175grs 311-180 Sil HP or the newest Blackout/whisper dedicated 311-235 HP. For subsonic they are all accurate without GC and all can cast HP/FP solid, from MP Molds (Miha’s moulds). I also have 314-140, 312-440 and HG#38 Ness safety bullet but they don’t feed from Ranch magazine. I killed few roe bucks, foxes and chamois with 311-410 and 312-159 Hunting.
My preferred alloy is pure lead with 5%tin.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200502/4e9e8468746889ffbf3b82e8ca5b21ac.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200502/4e753875ebebedd733d3660ee466c73b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200502/d40180f4cd684c2f5e45aa014c6fc3de.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200502/73181c3fe41b7861ed6631196f9f61c0.jpg

[Earl54]

67, don't like to go hunting deer after the shot. NEF/AAC single shot, 16 inch barrel,weaver V-3 scope. All shots from 10 to 60 yds. 8 shots, 8 deer DRT. 31141, stick on wheel weights,1350 fps. All shots through a softball sized area between the shoulder blades, no bullets recovered. Main thing I was told by my Grandpa was to be shure of your shot, and you have meat in the freezer.

[McFred]

@Gamsek, I don't even shoot .300BO, but that's a great post. Thank you.

[Gamsek]

@Gamsek, I don't even shoot .300BO, but that's a great post. Thank you.

Thanks! My buddy is using my cast bullets MP 311-235 HP in his 308 Win at 320 m/s and he is very happy, after two wild boars (DRT) in early spring he just got two 1y roe deers (we open season on May 1st) one dropped on spot , second made only one step and collapsed. I will try the same soon.
Cast bullets are effective- if you use them!

Thanks again for encouraging words, McFred.

[root]

I'm shooting a B&M mold 311170 that drops @ 180 Gn with straight WW.

12 Grns 4198 lubed and sized to 309 out of a 300 BLKOUT 8.5 inch SBR ar15 and either a Octane 9HD or a F1 30 cal SS can.


I also have a IDEAL mold that drops 200 gr with WW again it's a U311 334 3 94 stamped on it.
I havent's shot these yet just got a few loaded up for testing.

I also shoot the same 180 out of a remmy 700 PSS 308 but with trailboss and it's nothing but trigger clack and target smak

I don't powder coat any of my rounds due to almost shooting exclusively with suppressors.


Rich

[popper]

Root - those are fun. I use a 170PB PCd from 10" pistol, 8.5gr A2400. Bang - WHACK. Not sub, ~ 357 mag ballistics and very little recoil. No can. @50 yds, whack is as loud as bang - with muffs on! Backstop is just 1" fiberboard.
Interesting, I was using a Kaw Vally linear comp & playing 'whack-a-mole' with the 170s. Removed it after ~ 100 rnds. Lots of PB coating at the muzzle. No sign of PC. I had shot maybe 10 GC BLL coated hot loads that 'smoked' a lot and feel that is where the Pb came from. Saw some Pb and PC deposits on inside of flash hider on my AR10 after maybe 500 rnds but those are full jacketed fps and only a slight flashing of deposits. IMHO PC itself doesn't cause the problem. Soft alloy and pressure do.

[root]

From what I've seen with the PC deposits from my friend that shoots nothing but PC through his cans is pretty good deposits.

We attribute it to the flame cutting on the bullets once they exit the barrel into the can or your instance the brake.

It's just a PITA to clean on take apart cans like me and him have so a sealed can would build up and need sent back.

Nothing against PC bullets. Like most I'm just lazy and looking for the easy clean way out.

My buddy uses a ultra sonic cleaner for his I just use the "dip" and dispose of it @ the hazmat room where I do rotations.

Besides I'm a old man now and we all know what they say about teaching a old dog new tricks ;)


Rich

[popper]

We attribute it to the flame cutting on the bullets once they exit the barrel into the can or your instance the brake.
I agree cans and the one I used provide some back pressure that plates it into the can. i use US and kerosene to clean mine.

[bld451]

I know us scientists aren't supposed to change more than one thing at a time but I tried killing two birds with one stone today. I tried some PB gas checks and tried reducing the load a little to see about expansion with the deeper pins. I ended up loading 11.5 grs. 1680 this time. It gave me 935 on the chrony. I would have thought I'd have been closer to 1,000... It seems I'll have to keep these above 950 with a 50/50 alloy. First one went right through my block and rag box into the berm. No expansion that I could see. Second one penetrated the gel vlock but stayed in the box. Photos below. Not much expansion. I'll be trying some 20:1 alloy next. I think Gamsek has the right idea. Also, I'm thinking the cross section of deeper pins does away with the taper in the walls of the hollowpoint that keeps it together expanded. That makes it weaker when it folds back. We'll see.

262139 gas check almost made it through the block, but stopped about 1/4" from the end...

262140and one I retrieved from the berm after group testing...

[Gamsek]

Looking for some advice on which would be the best cast bullet to use in a 300 whisper
For hunting that would expand
Thanks

So have you found something, cast, hunt with it?

[bld451]

So have you found something, cast, hunt with it?

Just got to try some 20:1 alloy this week. This slug still zipped through the block but gave me more what I was looking for. Better wound channel,, plenty of penetration and 100% weight retention.. I reduced the length of the deeper pins by .100 also.

288937

288938

[Gamsek]

Just got to try some 20:1 alloy this week. This slug still zipped through the block but gave me more what I was looking for. Better wound channel,, plenty of penetration and 100% weight retention.. I reduced the length of the deeper pins by .100 also.

288937

288938

Nice!

[hlvabeach]

Looking for some advice on which would be the best cast bullet to use in a 300 whisper
For hunting that would expand
Thanksv

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