Had an idea.....

[USSR]

Am a big fan of the .45 Colt, and have several of them. I bought some of the .45 Cowboy Special brass that Starline sells and intend to work up some light weight, fairly mild loads using the fast powders I use for trap shooting. While I have an H&G #68 clone mold, it just don't look right for a revolver load, what with not having a driving band out in front of the case. So, I got to thinking (always a dangerous thing for me), why not take my Lyman 452460 bullet which has 2 lube grooves, and use the front one as a crimp groove? Granted, the single lube groove is small and doesn't hold a lot of lube, but at the low velocities I am looking at it should work. Added bonus, the bullet will be seated out a little bit closer to the throat. What say ye?

Don

[tazman]

It will work. Go for it.

[gwpercle]

Or ...just use the seating and crimp die from your 45 acp die set ...the one you use to seat and crimp #452460 in 45 acp ....and use it to seat and taper crimp that same boolit in the 45 Cowboy Special brass . I've done it in 45 Colt loads , the crimp holds and should work just fine for 45 Cowboy !
Keep the two grooves for lube if you like ... I would .
Gary

[Walks]

Nope.
But have fun.

[Winger Ed.]

You'd just have to try it.

Or, using a soft alloy-
try putting a light roll crimp on/over the top edge sort of like you would do with a double end wadcutter for .38s.

[georgerkahn]

USSR -- It sounds to me like it might work just fine -- and I agree with you being perhaps more pleasing to the eye ;). 260338 I have cast mine for .45ACP target shooting in a S&W 625 revolver, where (as most of my firearms :( ) it shoots better than I do... I believe I have a partial coffee can of these bullets from a couple of years back, and may just try loading some for .45 Colt revolver use, too. I do not recall off the top of my head what lub I used, but suspect it was plain-Jane Lyman hollow stick in a 450 lub/sizer. I do recall I used a 0.452" die and -- perhaps my alloy ? -- most all my bullets just barely were contacted by the .452" sizing die, with the occasional one just about dropping through. In giving a wee bit of thought to your idea -- I'd probably use Trail Boss -- probably starting at 5.0 grains. That Colt case is huge compared to the ACP -- and Trail Boss both (imho) fills a lot of space, also insuring against, say, a double charge.
Good luck!
geo

[USSR]

That Colt case is huge compared to the ACP -- and Trail Boss both (imho) fills a lot of space, also insuring against, say, a double charge.

George,

Not using the Colt case. The .45 Cowboy Special is the same size as the .45 ACP case, except with the .45 Colt rim. Using Red Dot, I should get a pretty good fill ratio.

Winger Ed,

I have a .45 ACP seating die with a roll crimp that I will be using.

Don

[bigted]

I have used the shorter schofield cases in my 1860 open top revolver using the cartridge conversion cylinder. They work well as well for lite loads.

[Larry Gibson]

"intend to work up some light weight, fairly mild loads using the fast powders I use for trap shooting."

A crimp is not needed at all with such loads. I've a 45 ACP cylinder for my Evil Roy SAA and shoot 45 ACP loads and the same loads in 45 Cowboy Action cases. Even my top end 45 acp load {230 TC over 5 gr Bullseye] doesn't require a crimp. I've never had any indication of "bullet jump".

[Earlwb]

I would agree, if you are using mild loads then you likely don't need to crimp the bullets.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I load a lot of the same bullets I use for 45acp in my 45 colt , using promo powder , and powder coated , I still load the heavier I just do not load them to ruger only loads anymore , I think your idea is fine , load and enjoy.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I used to own the 452460 and found it to be beautifully accurate. And ugly. Sorry I sold my 452460 mold. During this vid I’ve been horsing around with Starline Schofield.

[USSR]

"intend to work up some light weight, fairly mild loads using the fast powders I use for trap shooting."


A crimp is not needed at all with such loads.

Well, Larry, just like I don't have to seat the bullet to a depth that exposes the driving band, it's a revolver cartridge for God's sake, and needs to look like one.:)

Don

[contender1]

Let me offer a different idea.
Now, I'm not familiar with the profile of the bullet you mentioned. But I do understand your thoughts.
I think the easiest & simplest thing would be to powder coat the bullet you plan to use,, and it would preclude the necessity of using lube. That way, you can seat the bullet as you desire, and get the "look" you are after,, ALL w/o compromising the accuracy & leading issues.
By using a PC, you can roll crimp, taper crimp etc. And if the look is important, you can get a clear color PC, or even a gray one to look like lead.

Just another idea.

[Larry Gibson]

"intend to work up some light weight, fairly mild loads using the fast powders I use for trap shooting."



Well, Larry, just like I don't have to seat the bullet to a depth that exposes the driving band, it's a revolver cartridge for God's sake, and needs to look like one.:)

Don

We all need be allowed such hallucinations.....Lord knows I have my own.....:drinks:

[Earlwb]

You know one thought on mild loads, is to use round ball bullets. You only need a powder dipper, decapper and primer seater tool to reload. You could do it at the range even. The bullets just push into the case with your fingers. No resizing needed. You could likely have it going with about the same recoil that a .22LR makes in a pistol. of course with a mild load you could likely do it with your cast bullets too.

[USSR]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys, but I ain't PCing (see profile in post #6) when I have a perfectly good Lyman 450, various size sizers, BAC lube, and know how to use it. Also, since I already have the 452460 mold, no sense in shooting round balls.

Don

[bedbugbilly]

I have used that boolit in 45 Colt and Schofield - light loads using Red Dot and it works just fine. When I first started loading the 45, I had a hodgepodge of dies and all I had to crimp with was a 45ACP taper crimp. I put a light taper crimp on the and never had any issues out of my 7 1/2" Uberti Cattleman as far as boolit jump, etc. When I finally got a roll crimp die - I just seated them to the top groove and used the top groove as the crimp groove. I tumble lube in paste wax / alox and no issues at all. And . . . it shot well! Should work just fine in your cowboy brass.

[USSR]

Thanks for the encouragement, bedbugbilly.

Don

[35 Whelen]

I you just WANT to crimp it, there's nothing disgraceful about lubing normally then then lightly crimping in the front lube groove.

You may already know, but 45 Colt's typically shoot lighter bullets and loads WAY lower than 250-ish gr. bullets.

35W

[georgerkahn]

"Oops", Don (USSR)! Just like, say, RCBS makes "cowboy dies", I assumed/thought your brass was just a "new & shiny" handle on plain-Jane brass. I surely was/am wrong! But, I learned something new, and am actually intrigued by the shortened cases.
However, I thought (dangerous for me, too ;)) about this for a bit, with the recollection of a revolver and a rifle, both in .22 s-l-lr caibre, which got ".22 short rings" in their chambers -- never did get them totally out -- as I had delegated to these for sons' shooting (while quite young).
Similarly, will loading/shooting these make/erode similar "rings" -- possibly creating a problem in future, with the use of Schofield or actual .45 Colt cases?
I have shot a fair amount of my (mild, target) cast bullet reloads in .45 S&W Schofield cases, so far leaving only a stain in cylinder, which has been removed. But, frankly, my experience has been in the hundreds of rounds, versus the certain "thousands" vis the .22 short experience.
Just a thought here... Again -- a two-edged posting above: I apologize for not knowing about the *--* Cowboy brass -- but, again -- my quite teeny knowledge base has been expanded. :)
As a btw, I looked at several on-line vendors for the brass, and -- e.g., MidwayUSA does not even seem to list it. Nor do pretty much any of the on-line vendors I deal with. If/when it appears... I may just purchase some.
Thanks!
geo

[USSR]

You may already know, but 45 Colt's typically shoot lighter bullets and loads WAY lower than 250-ish gr. bullets.

Yeah, know about the POI situation. With the S&W 25-5, adjustable sights and no problem. However, the Pietta SAA is another matter altogether. Will test in the Pietta first and go from there.

Don

[USSR]

Here you go, George:https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0019845cowboyspl100/starline-unprimed-pistol-brass-cowboy-45-special-100-count. No different than shooting .38 Specials in a .357 Magnum; ya got's to clean the cylinder prior to shooting the longer round again.

Don

[georgerkahn]

Thank you.... in a few moments (God willing) I'll hopefully have some headed my way!
geo

[georgerkahn]

USSR: The delivery gentleman just dropped off a small box with the .45 *--* Cowboy brass in it. It is headstamped, ".45 S&W", and my first impression is it is a shortened version of the S&W .45 Schofield. Maybe... maybe not ;),
Anyhoos -- I have same exact bullet as you are using -- The Lyman 452-460 .45acp Target 200 grain SWC mould which is complemented with their #460 top punch.
Might you share some of your loading(s)? Thanks much!
geo
P.S.: Fairly familiar with Finger Lakes, I have spent -- for 32 years -- roughly two weeks each summer at Sampson State Park, tent camping, as I went out in my Lund Renegade, daily, to try and put a dent in Seneca Lake's Lake Trout population. "God's country!"
g

[USSR]

George,

"45 S&W"? Sound like you got Schofield brass. Headstamp should say "Cowboy" at 12 o'clock, have a "*" at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, and "45 SPL" at 6 o'clock. OAL should be about .895", if it's more than 1 inch, then you got Schofield brass. I'm using light loads with fast burn rate powders, so crimping into the top lube groove, somewhere between 4.0gr and 4.5gr of powders like Bullseye, Red Dot, and 700X will work. Yeah, the Finger Lakes is beautiful country.

Don

[georgerkahn]

My communication skills are not my forte (...amongst a zilliion or so other shortcomings) -- YES the brass I received is in fact the same as yours -- the Cowboy 45 Special headstamp. I tried saying that it LOOKS to me as shortened Schofield... OK, again, "whatever" :) -- I'm appreciative you opened my mind (and, wallet ;) ) to this new to me brass calibre.
I hope to load some in a day or two -- still have presses tied up on another calibre project -- and will no doubt use Bullseye -- probably right at 4.0gn. I'll be sending them down range in an "old" Vaquero -- a pretty beefy revolver so pressures should not be an issue. Thank you again!
geo

[USSR]

George,

Please let me know how that 4.0gr load works for you, as my grip frame is off having some custom grips put on it and I have yet to shoot it. Should be a really light load.

Don

[bedbugbilly]

Don - this has nothing to do with your boolit choice but 34 Wheelen makes a good point on a lighter boolit and reduced load will hit lower - but we all discover that as we try different loads.

I am not a competitive shooter - I have shot BP all of my life and didn't discover the new fangled cartridges until maybe 15 or so years ago. :-) I only own one 45 Colt at the present and will probably add another next year - have to say it is my all time favorite pistol cartridge to load. I mainly plink. I own more 38s/357 than anything else and my favorites are my '51 Uberti Richards and Mason Conversion - 38 special and my Uberti 357 Bisley. I load everything from 38 Colt Short, Colt Long, 38 Spl. and 357 and in a wide variety of boolit weights and configurations - just for the fun of it. I have had people look at me like I am nuts when I slide 38 Colt Shorts into my revolvers but hey - I love them for pinking - not unlike the 45 Cowboy brass in a 45 Colt.

So many shooters consistently practice at 21' self-defense distance, 25 yard, 50 yard, etc. - and there is nothing wrong with that. A lot of folks just have to have adjustable sights on their wheel guns - again, nothing wrong with that. For me, I have always preferred the SA sights, crude though they may be - most shooters would cringe at having to use the front post/hammer notch to aim a '51 Navy - and they are known to shoot "high". If a person is shooting paper and looking for tight groups, they yea . . . use the best boolit and charge to get the job done. But if you are plinking at cans, woods walking and plinking, etc. - work with your individual boolit weight and load and aim accordingly. Part of the fun with a SA for me is that in "normal" shooting - i.e. hunting, etc. - the target will always be at varying distances - the same as a "shoot out" in olden days. With a particular load, you eventually learn your POI as opposed to your POA and then the fun of "Kentucky windage/elevation" comes in to play. The old saying of "beware of the man who shoots just one gun" is a true statement. If all you shot was your one 45 colt SA, you would soon learn where your particular rounds hit in combination with your aim.

I used to build custom muzzleloaders and often shot with others years ago. It was always a fun time and you could tell those that always practiced at 25, 50 and 100 yards as we would often put out targets at odd distances - 35, 65, 120 yards, etc. - that quickly separates the men from the boys when it comes to those that practiced at odd and varying distances - then throw in a crosswind as well as good natured hassling from the sidelines and it makes for a good time.

My point is, don't be afraid to play around with your 45 and different boolit weights and designs and working with your POA and POI with the different loads. Some will work out and others may to but you'll have a lot of fun with it. Many years ago, when I was much, much younger than now, I used to hunt cottontails with a '51 Colt Navy. I didn't have a dog so would track in the snow - it was fun because none of them that I saw sitting were ever at a really "known" distance so I had to depend on how I knew my loads shot and figure my POA from that. More bunnies lived to see another day than ever went home with me but a lot of shots were close enough to "age" them and teach them not to sit in the open as well. It was just as much fun when I came close as it was when I got one. If you can't have fun doing something, it's not worth doing.

Keep us posted on how your loads are working out and enjoy!

[Dale53]

Good people;
Starline makes the .45 Cowboy Special Brass and sells it with free shipping. You do have to buy a minimum of 500 pieces. I have used in the a Taurus .45 ACP Tracker as well as my Ruger SS Bisley .45 ACP/.45 Colt Convertible. It works perfectly in the .45 ACP cylinder and allows me to use a roll crimp (not practical with the ACP case) when using heavier bullets. Understand, in the convertible, I use it in the ACP cylinder. Since I have the ACP cylinder, I have no need of shooting light bullets in the .45 Colt case. I shoot the light bullets in the ACP cylinder.

By the way, the convertibles, after you ream the cylinder throats to the correct size of .4525", shoot like a match gun (well under 1" at 25 yards off a rest). The .45 Colt shoots well with the heavier bullets, also.

FWIW
Dale53

[USSR]

Thanks Dale. Just so some guys don't get mixed up, the Cowboy .45 Special case will work in a .45 ACP single action revolver such as your Ruger Bisley, but not in a .45 ACP double action revolver designed to use moon clips such as those made by Smith & Wesson. For the latter case, it calls for the .45 AR case, also made by Starline.

Don

[Dale53]

USSR;
That is correct. The Taurus Tracker .45 ACP revolver has much less headspace than the Smith and Colt .45 ACP revolvers. In the Tracker the Cowboy Special works perfectly (at least the copy that I had). On the other hand, the extra thick rim of the .45 Auto Rim case is proper for the Smith and Colt double action revolvers.

Not that any of this is confusing or anything[smilie=b:

FWIW
Dale53

[oldhenry]

I think everything suggested from the others will work.

I don't have a #452460 mold, but do have a close cousin: the #452488. I use it often because it's accurate over 7.0 gr. of HP38. It's a 50 yd. chicken killer.

The photo shows how I put a very slight crimp @ the front edge of the driving band (the 452488 has only 1 lube groove: a wide one).

This works in both of my Colts.

[USSR]

So, I started casting some Lyman 452460's to shoot them out of the .45 Colt using the upper lube groove as a crimp groove. Well, my Lyman 2 cavity mold being steel and only 2 cavities was not much fun, seeing that I normally cast in brass 4 cavity molds for handgun bullets. Somewhere on the internet (nothing seems to escape the internet), some guy mentioned that Miha makes one of these molds in brass. A quick search of his site brings me to: MP 452-460 SWC PB (452-460) 4 cavity mold. The mold was 20% off, and with a 5% discount I got for writing a review of the last mold I bought from him, no way I could pass it up. Can't wait to crank them out.

Don