Castable reloadable tack driver

[MrWolf]

I have been thinking about expanding my horizons somewhat. I am thinking a smaller caliber tack driver that I can reload for. I have numerous leveractions and ar's. I have a few that could be considered but they are larger caliber like a 6.5. I guess I am considering a bolt action that can take the eye out of small game which would most likely mean a scope as the eyes are getting older. I haven't shot a bolt action since I was a kid. Am I making sense? I have 22's but like I said to cast and reload for. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Ron

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Are you inclined toward the modern, or will any vintage do? I realize that, having lever actions, you probably have a .30-30 already, but one of my future projects will be the acquisition of a .30-30 bolt action. I do have a low number Springfield M1903 that shoot fantastically well with cast boolits of 165 gr.

[popper]

Consider the range you would be shooting, expected velocity, etc. Rabbit, nutrina, yote - it makes a difference. That will determine twist and boolit weight. 6.5 isn't 'cheap' to load but might consider BO or variant. 100-180ish, rabbit to hog.

[tobywan45]

Have you given any thought towards the. .17 to 20 calibers ?

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[quilbilly]

I am not sure what you mean. Are you thinking of a 22 caliber centerfire bolt action? I have centerfire bolt and single shot 22's in the venerable hornet, 222, and 223 and all shoot well with cast in the vicinity of 1900 fps although the 223 took a lot more experimentation with molds and loads than the other two. With my arthritic fingers I can't imagine trying to manipulate anything smaller than 22's like 17's and 20's. After more than a year of experimentation with the bolt action 223 (a T/C Venture), good fortune put an NOE mold into my hands and now CB's from that mold will outshoot jacketed at 100 yards when my old eyes and nervous fingers are having a good day.

[FredBuddy]

25-20 ?

.257 Roberts ?

[MT Gianni]

I would look at a TC contender with an MGM bbl in 25-20 or 256. Figure an 80 gr bullet and a sneeze of powder.

[toallmy]

Lately I have been day dreaming of a 7mm x 223 in a bolt action . Just because I have this little 132 gr Thor mold . So the 7mm TCU looks like a fun little hunter , or a fine critter getter out to a 100 with cast .
Thumb tacks well if they were close enough .....

[MrWolf]

I should have clarified some, my bad. Yes I have two Marlin levers in .30-30. My yardage based upon where I live would probably be 50-100 yards. I was thinking of a bolt action as I have about a dozen levers and maybe the same in AR's. All in various calibers. Yes on rabbits to yotes. Don't think we have nutrina in these woods :Fire:.. Guess I am looking at the smaller calibers but I just don't know enough about bolts. Vintage or modern doesn't matter as long as it is more accurate than me. I know I am not doing a great job of explaining but it's kinda a feeling that I just want that one to say I got him in the eye at 50 yards and will pass it along to my son. I appreciate taking the time to offer me suggestions. Recommendations on moulds would be very helpful along with loads. I probably have a "few" different types of powder laying around and will probably PC them though I could lube if necessary.

[charlie b]

If you have AR's why not just cast for one of them? Cast in .223 would do what you are looking for.

If you want an excuse to get a bolt gun then you kinda have your pick of calibers. What you probably want is a slower twist and smaller case .22 or 6mm. Longer neck is better than shorter neck. A list of calibers is kinda pointless until you decide what caliber you want to use.

For some ideas there is a thread on 'Walking Rifles' in the Factory Rifles section of the forum. Lots discussed in there that I think apply to what you might be looking for.

[MUSTANG]

My Recommendation from what I Think your needs and goal is:

Caliber .223. - Provides access to cheap brass. Commercial ammo is readily available; and cheaper at Big Box Sports Stores. You can reload cheaper than many other options. You can cast for it and "Reduce Velocities" so that you keep accuracy with lead or PC bolts. Many are seeing a developing shortage on components; so less powder might be a good thing downstream. A set of Lee Pacesetter dies for .223 on Amazon is $33.99.

Also; should you need to do so - you can always do reduced loads for both cast or jacketed in .223 using WC860, WC870, or WC872 surplus 50BMG and 20mm Vulcan Powders ( See my past work in this area - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?160094-WC860-in-223-5-56-Yes-But )

Game Potential: Obviously the .223 would work on Rabbits and Squirrel's, but also Turkey, Deer, and.... are all doable with the .223.

Rifle Ideas on a budget:

Savage AXIS XP Bolt Action Rifle - I have one and it shoots pretty well. I replaced the Tupperware stock with a Boyd's, and accuracy improved. You might pick one up in a "Pawn Shop" or other location at a better price.

260349


Savage 12FV - I have one and it shoots Very Well. Once again I replaced the plastic stock with a Boyd's, and the accuracy improved. You will have to buy/have a scope to put on this rifle as there are no sights or scope mounts when you buy. I believe this is a Cabellas only option (other similar from Savage - but higher cost.
https://www.cabelas.com/product/SAVAGE-FV-VARMINT-RIFLE/1994604.uts?slotId=0

[Chris S]

I'll third the 25-20 or 32-20. Both can be plenty accurate with lead slugs out to and a somewhat beyond 100 yards. You'll need something with a bit more snort than those for more range.

If your leaning towards a bolt gun anyway, go for a Savage 10,11,12 etc like Mustang said. This way you can swap out different barrels and calibers in your own shop. Maybe a tad expensive setting up, but once done, you can do pretty much anything you want.

I have a mod 12 with two barrels, a 6PPC and a 22-250. I can swap them in about an hour.

McGowan makes awesome barrels for the Savages and there are a huge number of businesses making all kinds of "jewelry" for the guns.

My $.02
Chris

[Greg S]

32-20 is a fun cartridge and depending on what you have it in strength wise it can go from mild to wild. I would love to score a 2nd Gen 1882 25-20 to play with that too.

[Dapaki]

.223 all the way! As cheap of a bottleneck you can buy, reload and shoot.

[popper]

Reason I mention the 300BO - intermediate case size, similar to 357, 32/20, 30 carbine. Cheap to reload - you can use pistol powder for bunny loads in bolt or break action. Or push 150gr to 2200 fps. Make your own cases or purchase. I shot my pistol with 100gr half jacket - 5 gr hp38 and it goes 'pop' but 14-1500 fps range. 40WT & 30 Hamr are just longer case for more powder - not really needed.
Like you haven't shot a bolt gun except sighting in GK 243s. Got the 22lr, 30/30 & 308 + BO pistol and carbine.

[Mule]

30-30 cast can do what you are looking for. My experience with cast in Marlin 30-30 microgroove has not been good. A Savage /Stevens bolt gun in 30-30 might be just the thing. Sadly, I traded mine. Also shot it with round balls for backyard vermin.
If you shoot Contenders, that might be an option also.

[MrWolf]

Ok some good ideas.
Charlie b I will check that out, thanks.

I have pretty much every caliber mentioned plus dies between my ar's and levers except the 22-20, 30 carbine, 6ppc, and 22-250. I will look into them. These sound like something to pursue.

Mustang - yea you are pretty much getting what I am thinking. I will have to look into the other calibers. I am not really concerned with this being a budget build as it will be a one time extravagance. Some great ideas guys. Thanks I really do appreciate it. I could cast for the ar's but the bolt just seems to be calling to me for the "one shot one kill" picture in my mind. I know I am not expressing myself properly but you guys are giving me great ideas.

[adcoch1]

If a light 30 cal will work I'd recommend a cz 527 in 7.62x39 or 300 blk. If 22 is more of your idea, get the same cz in 22 hornet. Brilliant little rifles with at least a chance of a great factory trigger, nice stocks, and great sights. Not too cheap though but worth the money.

[unclemikeinct]

If a light 30 cal will work I'd recommend a cz 527 in 7.62x39 or 300 blk. If 22 is more of your idea, get the same cz in 22 hornet. Brilliant little rifles with at least a chance of a great factory trigger, nice stocks, and great sights. Not too cheap though but worth the money.

When we get out of the Wuhan Flu BS. I'll get to test drive a sweet little CZ527 in 7.62 x 39 mm bolt gun.. I have two bullet weights to test drive in it. I'm hoping the smaller 113gr lee bullet works best. I'm only looking to best 1"groups at fifty yards with a pee wee size dose of Unique. I'll let you know how it turns out. uncle mike

[Texas by God]

I have used the 22-250 since 1972 to hit little targets out yonder. I've recently found out that it's 1-14" twist is kind to cast bullets as well, making it very versatile. The .223 is cheaper to shoot, but a slow twist barrel on a factory rifle is rare. I love my 30-30 bolt action but I had to build it myself. I think a .308 would work out for you. .300 Blackout is fun, but again the fast twist limits your cast adventures IME.

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[Minerat]

I have a CZ 527 varmint in 17 HH. It's a challenge to load rice grains in the brass but will shoot the eyes out of a mouse at a 100 yds. Here's the first target with factory loads after the scope was set. Top hole was the first 3 rounds of the five then I looked in the spotting scope and got excited for the bottom 2 and the group was still .44" @ 100 yds

260365

[unclemikeinct]

Steve that is lights out for any squirrel...Good shooting buddy...uncle mike

[dverna]

Doing what you want with cast is a labor of love.

I buy Hornady 55 gr SP bullets for $420/6000 delivered. MOA at 3000+FPS. Can be down loaded if desired. Buy the time you invest in a couple of molds, add GC’s, weight sort hundreds of cast bullets, and invest in hundreds of test rounds to find a 2 MOA cast load, you can never achieve what those cheap jacketed bullets will do. Tack driving is not easy and nearly impossible with cast. Look at the CBA record books.

Coyotes here are pests. I am looking at a .38 Spl cast load for up to 125 yards out of one of my 1894’s. I will be happy with 3 MOA. If I cannot do that, I have a Howa mini-Mauser in 223 that I will be using.

I would look at the CZ bolts as well.

[dtknowles]

I would suggest 22 hornet, 22 bee, 256 win or 25-20 for a small game moderate range gun. Brass is a bit of an issue for each but they are available. If the idea is one shot, lights out. Why not a single shot. They are handier than bolts guns which are long and more cumbersome. I know bolt guns have a reputation for accuracy but single shots shoot cast bullets very nicely. Bolt guns for these light calibers are less common but they can be had. I gave my brother my Handi-rifle in .22 hornet and he loves it but I got a Ruger #3 in .22 hornet to replace it. It shoots under 3 moa with plain base cast bullets all the time. It will shoot Hornady factory ammo under 1 moa. It will put a 35 grain Hornady v-max bullet thru a squirrels head at 100 yards if you do your part and it leaves the muzzle at over 3000 fps. My cast bullet loads are only around 1800 fps.

Tim

[MrWolf]

Those CZ look interesting. I am building a 308 just waiting on a barrel nut. I hadn't considered a single shot as I think I have only shot one, a 22, that I got new for $50 from all places Dick's about 15 years ago that was forgotten in the back. Nice shooting Steve. I was up past my bedtime last night looking at the 22-250. I do have a 300 BO ready for yotes and a mini 30 I plan on playing with. Dverna I buy the same things. I enjoy all the aspects of reloading and getting a few grains of rice for a load doesn't bother me at all as I won't be shooting hundreds of rounds a week through it. I have to look at the CZ's now. Thanks

[charlie b]

My two bolt rifles are Savages, Axis in .223 and 12BVSS in .308. But, for a little walking around rifle the smaller action CZ (Howa makes one too IIRC) looks like just the ticket. Savage also has the model 25 series in .223 or .22 hornet.

As stated above, I would not cast for the .223 (or any other .22 caliber) unless I just wanted the challenge. Jacketed bullets are so inexpensive for it. My .308 is my cast bullet rifle, but, it is not light :) and is for long range.

I would also vote single shot, except that I have never had an inexpensive one that shot well for me. TC Contenders are good, but, not cheap.

Maybe spend some time looking at some used rifles and see if something interesting pops up.

Good luck in your search.

[popper]

My AR carbine barrel is McGowan 1:10 for the BO. It does a little over MOA @ 100 with 145gr PB @ 2100 fps. Working with a GC version now. IIRC Xcaliber will make whatever you want, don't know about their quality.

[unclemikeinct]

I'm reading this w great interest. for a few reasons. One way out idea, was using an old H&R single shot break open 410. shotgun to convert to a 32 caliber [something or other] cast bullet plinker... Any of you ever try that ??? uncle mike

[dverna]

I'm reading this w great interest. for a few reasons. One way out idea, was using an old H&R single shot break open 410. shotgun to convert to a 32 caliber [something or other] cast bullet plinker... Any of you ever try that ??? uncle mike

Unless you can do the work yourself it gets pricey. The .30 Badger has been done on an H&R shotgun frame IIRC. It is a .38 Spl case necked to .30 cal. Neat little round but powder is too cheap for me to justify saving a couple of gr per shot, and necked cases are a pain to reload in bulk. I had 3 rifles in .38/.357 and stayed with the .38 Spl for plinking. Using 3.5 gr vs 2.0 gr means I get 2000 rounds per pound instead of 3500, Using the .38, my additional powder cost is less than $5/1000. Lead savings are about 30 gr per shot....so another $5/1000. Most I would save was $10/1000.

If I wanted a .30-.32 cal, I would look at the Henry lever action in .327 or a used Marlin 1894 in .32 Mag. But I can barely mount a scope...LOL. Both can be downloaded and cases are easy to process.

[MrWolf]

There are a lot more calibers than I had thought. My head is spinning on trying to research them but it is interesting. Guess my next decision is whether to cast or reload for the smaller calibers and leave the casting to my other guns. I was really impressed with Steve's shooting of the 17 hornet and all the praise for the CZ. I had never considered the 223 in anything other than an AR. You folks have given me a lot to think about including a headache (actually have/had a migraine today which is slowly getting better). I think I have the majority of calibers covered from 223 on up or equivalent calibers between the AR's and Marlin levers. Decisions decisions. Thanks

[Texas by God]

Twentytwotwofifty. Covers .22 LR to .220 Swift via handloading....Tikkas are nice.....3 shots at 100 yards here. Sorry, just enabling.....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200416/21ee26998f47cfa281e1235862621c8c.jpg

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[Shopdog]

My "early" CZ527 .223 is a 12T....R700 .223's are still 12T.... R700 22-250's are 14T

I shoot all of these and a 1/2 dz others(more R700's and Savages) in .223 routinely. Cast up a bunch of Lee 225-55's and Lyman 225415's yesterday. Have loads from 1800-2800. You have to cast really well to get them to shoot bugholes in the upper velocities. Takes gobs of patience with not only casting technique but subsequent loading as well. Bullet "fit" is #1 obviously. What isn't so obvious is neck clearance and loaded cartridge run out. You have to play/test with the former..... "nail" the latter(run out). You can play with crimp a bit,forget hard N fast rules like "never crimp",this ain't JB's. Sometimes a little compression from one of those Lee collet crimpers can be just what the load needs. I used to think of it as a crutch? and still is sort of.....

Check primers too. My R700V 22-250 goes from zero to hero with a Lee 55g and a change from CCI to Remington 9 1/2's. Everything else the same. Find a lube and stick with it. 22's aren't that fussy with lubes,UNTIL you change them. Also,learn what the rig will do coming off a "deep clean" barrel. I'm talking JB and Remington 10X clean. Besides nailing .000 runout,learning what it took to get cold barrel shots to be within a group is what got me the closer to bugholes than just about anything. Once you can produce cold bore 3 shot cloverleafs,you won't be deep cleaning. Dry mop about every 20-40 rounds on a bughole rig. But eventually,you're going to have something go ary and have to deep clean,so I always make notes when fireforming brass,or working with a new barrel,what this rig acts like coming off the bttm(deep clean).

There's a metric ton more to it like bedding,really nice triggers,practice,and bench manners. The barrel time being slower than JB's can set up a chain of events within the recoil's,critical phase that will send a shot not just a little "out" but,into orbit..... UFO like. Gotta learn to call your shots much more with cast..... you'll see what I mean. Where a called JB "out" may go 1/2 or 3/4 out.... a CB will double or triple that. Just sayin,there's an awful lot to "shooting" CB's that is a LOT tougher than the more forgiving J words. Good luck with your project... sorry for the novel.

[arlon]

I just can't imagine getting the accuracy you want with anything cast in .17 or even .22. I think I'd probably go get a Savage Axis in some caliber that's easy to find a nice variety of moulds for (or for moulds I already have). For me that would mean a .308. Easy for everything, easy to load, easy to cast for, easy to get brass for, easy to get loading info for, etc. Accuracy, .308 Savages have won a lot of cast bullet competitions. Shoot anything from 90-250 grain bullets in the thing. I've had really good luck casting quality 30 caliber bullets, not so good with .22, would never even think of trying to cast .17... I do like keeping things on the less complicated side of the equation.

[popper]

Other than trying to load those little bugger 22s, casting for precision would be a pain. Weight difference is a higher % and GC a pain to put on (with my fingers). Those Savage 'chassis' guns do look neat, seen a couple at the range.

[Minerat]

The 17 hh is not a casting platform. That target was with 20 gr vmax bullets. I am messing with cast but just have not had time to do much reloading and shooting on that gun. Maybe this summer.

[MrWolf]

Welp decided I have plenty of other calibers to cast for so I am gonna blame Steve and the rest of you as I just ordered a CZ 527 17 hornet varmint. I don't have any bolts and I really like wood so Happy birthday to me next week. Just ranged out a spot 200 yards from my front porch. Remove some brush and small stuff and instant range till my real ones are done. Thanks again everyone.

[richhodg66]

A .22 Hornet is about the most fun for the buck a guy can have. Easy to load for and cast for too.

[gnoahhh]

A .22 Hornet is about the most fun for the buck a guy can have. Easy to load for and cast for too.

Yepper. I find casting .22's to be no big deal. Ditto sizing, checking, and loading same. I routinely achieve half-MOA (and often less) at 50 yards with my Winchester Model 54 .22 K-Hornet, using #225438's and Lee Bator's and mild charges of Unique, 2400, and 4759. At 100 yards groups open up due mainly to the effects of even mild breezes- about how what one expects a good .22 rimfire to behave.

If you put a gun to my head and told me I could have but one rifle to cast bullets for, for the rest of my life, I would take a good accurate .22 Hornet in either single shot or bolt persuasion.

https://i.imgur.com/yTQiOcx.jpg?2

[Minerat]

One caution don't use a roll crimp on the 17hh get a Lee factory crimp die. The roll crimp can squash the neck and shoulder on the tiny cases very easily. They are proud of cases too. $26+ for 50 cases and you probably won't find them locally. I just order them off midway. The other bad thing is it makes your face hurt..... from the grin after seeing the size and gives you heart palpitations when you measure the groups.

[richhodg66]

One caution don't use a roll crimp on the 17hh get a Lee factory crimp die. The roll crimp can squash the neck and shoulder on the tiny cases very easily. They are proud of cases too. $26+ for 50 cases and you probably won't find them locally. I just order them off midway. The other bad thing is it makes your face hurt..... from the grin after seeing the size and gives you heart palpitations when you measure the groups.

Seems like our Academy Sports was selling loaded Hornady ammo for less than that. I have a .17 HMR Contender rifle I want to rechamber for that so I can reload for it.

[richhodg66]

Yepper. I find casting .22's to be no big deal. Ditto sizing, checking, and loading same. I routinely achieve half-MOA (and often less) at 50 yards with my Winchester Model 54 .22 K-Hornet, using #225438's and Lee Bator's and mild charges of Unique, 2400, and 4759. At 100 yards groups open up due mainly to the effects of even mild breezes- about how what one expects a good .22 rimfire to behave.

If you put a gun to my head and told me I could have but one rifle to cast bullets for, for the rest of my life, I would take a good accurate .22 Hornet in either single shot or bolt persuasion.

https://i.imgur.com/yTQiOcx.jpg?2

I haven't gotten to it yet, but will eventually do this with a .218 Bee, I have a feeling it may be even a little better. Then there's that .25-20 I need to get casting for too.

Still, a Hornet is a pretty darn good tool for the task, and not nearly the pain I have heard others say it is to load for.

[NLS1]

I have a barrel stubbed 22 K hornet H and R Handi Rifle single shot built by David White. It is so well built, it is kind of ridiculous. Every aspect is as perfect as a single shot could be. No squirrel or coyote stands a chance inside a couple hundred yards. Unless a mouse farts cross wise, then the bullet will be blown off course. :D

I have never cast for it, but I certainly could.

Because of the K Hornet chamber, the brass lasts very well. A pound of powder goes a long way, and you could get a ton of boolits out of a pound of lead.

I should shoot it more honestly. I bought it for my son to learn to reload, and he never got excited reloading, and then moved out a year ago.

Yeah 22 K hornet single shot gets my vote!

Dan

[Minerat]

Rich, your right sometimes you can find loaded for less then just the brass. When I find that I buy it too. I have accumulated about 350 cases by hook or crook, but they just don't seem to last as long at the range as my Weatherby.:bigsmyl2:

[quilbilly]

You will have to tell us someday how easily you got spoiled by the bolt action (or single shots). They are so easy to keep clean! As much as I enjoy shooting my semi-autos, sometimes I just am not in the mood to do proper diligence with them so don't break them out.

[MrWolf]

As soon as it gets here I plan on playing. I made the mistake of trying out my Ruger Super Gp100 about a month ago one handed. Just couldn't wait after back surgery as long as I should have. After the 3rd shot the middle of my back was screaming and took a long time to go back to "normal ". Doc was right it is gonna take longer than I thought before back to normal. Figure a lil 17 hornet is ok. I have to play as withdrawals are tough.

[Harter66]

Over looked by a lot so far .

I shoot a Savage 340 in 222 it has a slow twist and to my surprise shoots the NOE 225-55 FP , now the 225-62 I think , @62 gr very very well 5 shot groups regularly go well inside a 1" grid square at 100 yd with just a 4x scope . It's also dawdling along at 2,640 fps which is jacketed speeds . Brass is seasonal but readily made from 223 if needed .
FC brass , CCI 400 , 19.0 H322 , 2640 fps .
WW brass , CCI 200 (SPP) 2.5 Unique , 1240 fps with the same 62 gr . Same groups at 50 yd functionally it's a really angry 22 mag .

In both loads recoil is nil , the 2nd could be stepped down but I didn't have the small drum for the Uniflow then to get it subsonic . The crack is loud with the light load but not hearing damage really although I'm deaf anyway .