stuck bullet- good and proper this time

[andrew375]

I was playing with paper patched bullets in my mosin and managed to seriously under load a round. The bullet stopped about halfway up the barrel and won't shift. I've wrecked one cleaning rod hammering with a 2lb. hammer, from both directions, and it hasn't budged at all. I've had it soaking in Ed's red for a month and gave it one final try with the hammer and rod, but no deal.

I've also tried firing a case loaded with just a charge of powder, as in Hatcher's notebook, but without a bullet the primer just fired the powder into the bore without igniting it.

So suggestions? I do not have access to any workshop facilities or equipment like a hydraulic press. I cannot remove the barrel from the action. I've seen the idea of a case full of black powder, but will I get the same issue of the powder being shot up the barrel without igniting?

[JoeJames]

Cast or jacketed?

[Wayne Smith]

BP is an explosive, it will ignite without pressure. He implied paper patched. Does acetone dissolve oil soaked paper?

[Drm50]

Sounds like you have got the bullet turned into a rivet from cleaning rod/ hammer job. Any rod smaller than bore is going to tighten bullet in bore if it doesn’t move it. You need dowel or rod close to bore size as you can get. If this isn’t possible, buy a piece of brass like a 32 cal jag for a muzzle loader and drive it from rear with a solid rod. Don’t peck around use a heavy hammer and strike it smartly. Once you get it moving you got it made. When you strike have muzzel on a board so all the force is directed on stuck bullet.

[JoeJames]

Reason I asked: ages ago I had a mini ball stuck in my muzzle loader. I took a small woodscrew, turned the screw head down on my drill press to where it would fit in the end of an old steel cleaning rod - then soldered it in the rod. Ran it down the barrel - screwed it into the lead mini ball and pulled it out. Bob's your uncle!

[john.k]

Catch with hammering a lead bullet is you may have bulged the barrel.If you can try blackpowder ,go for it...and pour some into the bore too ,behind the bullet.....be sure to guard against the possibility of a slug of blackpowder firing down the bore ,dont compress the powder into the case ,leave it loose ,and dont use any wads.

[Elroy]

I always thought that with black powder you want no air gap between the powder,and the projectile.

[725]

I would solder a drill bit on a long shaft, tape "doughnuts" on the shaft every 4"s or so, and drill the center out of the lead bullet. Reduce the riveted effects of the prior hammering and the drive it out with a near bore diameter brass rod. Oil is your friend.

[RU shooter]

Go buy a piece of brass or steel rod 1/4" dia or even closer to bore dia if possible wrap some electrical tape around the steel one about every 6-8"and the end that goes I first so it centers up inthe bore place muzzle on a board on the floor drop the rod in smack it with a big hammer .

[JimB..]

Lots of options, but I’d try drilling out the center of the bullet. Center drill a brass rod, solder in a drill bit of a reasonable size, slide it in and turn by hand. Once the center is gone it’ll be easy to drive put with the brass rod.

[toallmy]

How far in is it ? I ask because I have used a 18 inch drill bit with a sleeve around it to protect the bore turning it by hand to make removing a cast boolit possible .

[Texas by God]

Strip it down to the barreled receiver. Put a piece of stout wood(2x12) on the garage floor, driveway- a hard surface. Using oven mitts or leather gloves, heat the barrel adjacent to the stuck bullet with a propane torch until lead starts dripping out. Now bounce the muzzle end on the board until all the lead is out. Once it's cool, clean the bore and reassemble. You can sometimes restore old "shot out" .22 rim fires this way too.

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[Dapaki]

Too much to respond to but one thing for sure, BP needs confinement to deflagrate (BP does not detonate), it is a "low Explosive" and is not known to self confine in modest heaps.

The use of a BP blank in the barrel with a good crimp at the end of the brass would send out a pressure wave beyond the breech where the barrel is the weakest, suggest you dont ever use a BP charge to free the boolit.

A brass rod pushed hydraulically will free the slug, no matter how jammed it is, the lead will flow past the rod when the pressure makes the lead plastic. Fluid dynamics show us that pounding sends the pressure out to the sides at an approximate 45 degree angle so if the boolit is x2 the bore in length, almost all the pressure will just be sent to the bore walls and not to push out the slug as you wish.

Hydraulic pressure can turn the solid into a fluid (plastic) and can push the core of the slug out of the barrel.

Also, paper is very abrasive, it's shear strength along its length is enormous! It can indeed lock in a boolit until the radial pressure is removed by drilling (very good idea!) or using slow, hydraulic pressure.

I cannot recommend heating the barrel, it could have disastrous results if it was heat treated (most are) or cryogenically cooled (many are) to destress the crystalline structure.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[Gtek]

RU Shooters way, all day! Even better with a gas check epoxied on end of rod. I would think a 1/4" steel rod would be more than enough using a REAL hammer.
A small rod you are expanding as much or more as pushing.

[Dapaki]

Gtek, you can bulge a barrel that way.

[popper]

Drill hole in it then push out with rod.

[Dapaki]

Drill hole in it then push out with rod.I'll second that

[country gent]

You might order a 1/8"- 3/16" drill 18" long and some brass tubing 12" length 3/16" ID X .300 or so OD slightly smaller wont hurt. Look in metric sizes to get best fits possible. file a square on the shank of the drill and use a tap handle to turn it run brass tubing into bore and drill thru it turn by hand breaking chips often. You want to be a peck driling machine. taking small chips and clearing often to keep them from packing in. work slow as you cut the bullet will collapse pinching the drill and forcing it to cut on the sides. use light oil or dish soap water on the drill as you cut.

Chances are good that just before you break thru the bullet will collapse and loosen, being able to be pushed or pulled out. If not a rod will push it out.

Paper has a lot of grip to it and under pressure its formidable. Modern papers and the coating make them hard to dissolve. Cleaning solvents like hoppes or shooters choice may soften it, but under the compression it will take along time to work thru. The compressed paper will act as a gasket sealing the gap.

The drill you buy only needs flutes 3-6" long the rest can be solid

[JimB..]

Honestly guys, it never occurred to me to use a piece of copper or brass tube to keep the drill away from the rifling, although now that you’ve said it it’s obvious. Anyway, thanks for that!

[2152hq]

You could just do as Tex offered and melt the offending dud out of there.
Inspite it being a gun barrel, it's no more than an already HT'd piece of alloy before it was made into a bbl.
It's pretty soft steel and lead melting temp won't effect much of anything.

Lead melting temp is in the 600+/- range. You won't be doing any more to the bbl than if you were to soft solder a rear sight base onto the bbl'. Plenty of that's been done with no problems or blow-ups.
Tens of 1000's of Mausers had their rear sight base soft soldered to their finished bbl & right up at the chamber end,,none of those suffered any damage.
>
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If you don't like to work w/heat,
Country Gents description is about the best. Something to protect the bore above the obstruction is needed and the brass tubing is a good trick.
You'll most likely be pulling the drill out often (should be IMO) to clear any lead chips from the drill flutes.
Lead is soft obviously but doesn't drill real nicely.
It sticks to the bit and the bit can get stuck in it and snap off.
If that happens down in there you're really stuck.
Go to #1 in that case.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I do not see bulging a barrel with a rod , lead is still softer then steel , with a slug stuck and then another round fired I can see bulging , and btw I had a rifle 264 win mag a ex brother in law shot a 308 win. fmj out of and stuck the slug , I gave the rifle years later to a guy and he drove the bullet out still has it in his gun shop and he said the rifle would still drive tacks .

[john.k]

Dunno how many drill outs Ive seen go horribly wrong ,same as drive outs that gouge the barrel when the rod goes astray...Which is why I think blackpowder is the least likely to cause problems,with careful heat the next best.Heat may carbonize the paper before the lead melts ,and release the bullet.The comment on paper is good too......machinists often use paper between a workpiece and a machine table to increase the holding power of clamping screws,especially on big planers ,where there is a tendency for the work to be pushed along the bed ,even with stops.

[roadie]

If it were mine, I'd just melt the thing out and be done with it. About the only thing that might be hurt is the bluing.....maybe never notice it on a Mosin. Clean the bore good after.

[LawrenceA]

You could melt it out but be careful not to heat more than necessary. Difference in a sight and a stuck bullet is how much of the barrel you need to heat. You do not want to see too drastic a colour change in the barrel. I have done this but only with air rifles.
As mentioned you can also drill out within a tube to safe guard the barrel. Never tried but it will work. By drilling out enough of the centre the bullet collapse a little under pressure from the barrel. I would suggest only have maybe 3/4 (start lower, you can always drill deeper but once you are too far!) the bearing surface of the drill protruding to minimise the chances of it damaging the barrel and maybe no bigger than 3/16" -1/4".

Suggest DO NOT use a case load of Black Powder. What can happen is the powder at the back can force the powder at the front along like a projectile which then slams into the stuck bullet or should I say obstruction.
Basically you have the equivalent of huge case capacity and an itsy bitsy load.

There may be other options but I have no experience with these nor know anyone who has.
1. First just heat the barrel thoroughly but not high and then cool it quickly. In theory the barrel would contract faster than the bullet effectively squashing the bullet slightly.
2. If you have a tight case that will seal the back end but still extract then fill the rear of the barrel with liquid and seal with the aforementioned case and close the bolt. Heat the barrel. The liquid should expand pushing along the bullet long before the case expands but as you can guess the case needs to be a good seal as does the bullet for this to work.

Good luck and keep us posted

[BigEyeBob]

Brass disc close to bore diameter ,dropped down onto obstruction ,brass rod close to bore diameter as close as possible , muzzle on a piece of hard wood on a concrete floor ,a good sized hammer and drive it out . Done it this way quite a few times with jwords and cast lead works and will not damage the barrel or bore.Forget trying to blast it out with black powder ,its dangerous and will damage your barrel.

[Traffer]

Drill it out ...easy peasy. If you can't figure out how to do it PM me.

[nicholst55]

Grease. As in, hydraulic pressure.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=grease+bullet+removal

[andrew375]

Thanks for the replies. The bullet is cast, a Lee 309-200 wrapped with 2 turns of .004 greaseproof paper and sized to. 315" . Barrel is. 3145".

I am loath to try drilling it out as if something goes wrong and the drill jams I've just made the problem much worse. If I had facilities to braze a drill on to a rod then I would contemplate it. I think the best bet is going to be melting it out. I am not concerned about damaging the steel as the melting point of the bullet is considerably below the lower critical limit of steel. They actually use molten lead baths for tempering high carbon steel tools like cold chisels. Also, barrels for double shotguns and rifles are joined with soft solder which has about the same melting point as the alloy I used to cast the bullet from. I've just got to find a blowtorch I can borrow for the job, I doubt that one of those diy plumbing blowtorchs will put out enough heat to do the job.

The frustrating thing is that this time last year I had access to foundry facilities so melting the bullet out or making an extra long drill would have been a doodle.

I'll report back on how I get on.

[Texas by God]

A common propane torch will probably work fine as that Russian Barrel is not particularly thick. I would put a wet pack on the rear sight for protection of that solder joint. Good luck!

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[Sitzme]

Lead is soft enough that you can probably make a drill out of anything. I would first try to buy a long drill and as mentioned multiple times above, wrap it with tape or brass tube from the hardware store. You don't need a huge hole, just enough to relieve the pressure. Maybe 1/2 the bore diameter? Think of it as "unswaging". As long as the bit is guided, you should be safe.

You could buy music wire and fashion a drill that would stand up to a 5/8 deep hole in lead. Brass like a brazing rod might even work for drilling lead.

The advice on the lead bulging the bore is spot on.

[dverna]

I see little downside to drilling it out with the drill encased in a metal tube. I have some long 1/4" drill bits but even drill rod with a "D" profile reamer would get it done. Round the end of the rod and grind half of it off, as you would for a reamer. Use hand power and go slow. Good advice to clear chips often and use a lubricant. 1/4" drill rod 36" long is less than $10

Worst case, if the drill gets stuck melt out the bullet.

[Clark]

The late gunsmith Randy Ketchum told me about this and it worked for me.
Put oil in the barrel. Hammer the oil with a brass rod and a hammer. Try to get all the air out [air acts like a spring].

[gnostic]

Many years ago my uncle got a 22 LR stuck in the barrel of a bolt action rifle. He took the eyes off a metal fishing rod, heated it up red hot with a propane torch and burned it out....

[Gtek]

An old muzzle loader trick, push it with a grease gun. Couple long pipe clamps and make a plate for muzzle with a partial drilled hole to fit over muzzle, drilled center for grease zerk. Material through action and clamp both sides, use grease gun and push obstruction back into chamber.

[Rgmcfarland]

A stout punch, brass drift or hardwood dowel patched tight to the bore, fill bore with oil to about 1/2 inch from crown, tap till tight on the fluid then a sharp whack with a 4 lb sledge, rinse repeat as necessary if it doesn’t loosen up enough to push out with a rod, just refill to neW level, repatch tight and whack. I’ve not whacked a crown but you could. Might want to put a hose washer or something around the dowel to protect it. You want a solid get er done whack, not a bunch of light taps.

[Texas by God]

Gnostic- I just found a steel fishing pole like you mention. This is flat spring steel and seriously headed for Crappie and Perch early summer. Oh yeah, Andrew375...... how’d it go? I’d melt that bullet out in 5 minutes and not molest the Moisten Nugget a bit��

[ATCDoktor]

Here’s an approximately 30 minute video of a gentleman “shooting” stuck bullets out of several firearms with absolutely no damage to the guns

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6SiW1Tk0XV8

At approximately the 18 minute mark he purposely “sticks” a jacketed bullet in a Winchester Model 94 and shoots it out using a water filled bore and a blank cartridge loaded with trail boss.

[gnostic]

Gnostic- I just found a steel fishing pole like you mention. This is flat spring steel and seriously headed for Crappie and Perch early summer. Oh yeah, Andrew375...... how’d it go? I’d melt that bullet out in 5 minutes and not molest the Moisten Nugget a bit��

I grew up on Lake Erie and we'd catch trash cans full of Perch. I haven't seen a steel casting rod for years....

[45workhorse]

Use a bullet Puller for a muzzle loader. If you can't pull it, you can drill a hole in it with the puller.!
Good luck!

[downzero]

Strip it down to the barreled receiver. Put a piece of stout wood(2x12) on the garage floor, driveway- a hard surface. Using oven mitts or leather gloves, heat the barrel adjacent to the stuck bullet with a propane torch until lead starts dripping out. Now bounce the muzzle end on the board until all the lead is out. Once it's cool, clean the bore and reassemble. You can sometimes restore old "shot out" .22 rim fires this way too.

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Can't be stuck if it's liquid!!

[Buck Neck It]

Drilling out the center of the bullet worked great for me, after I tried the “quick and easy” methods. These just made the problem worse.

I was firelapping a pitted military bore, was too stingy with the powder, lol.

[andrew375]

Pleased to say I got it out! I went around to a friend who has a MAP blowtorch and a couple of minutes heating the barrel around where the bullet was and it simply pushed out. One moment it was stuck solid, the next it just slid down the last 8 inches of the barrel and out. Bore scope shows no sign where the bullet was so all is good. Bullet still has the paper patch intact. 263154

The unpatched bullet is an as cast Lee .309-200 what the bullet originally looked like.

Anyway, thank you for all your suggestions and comments on this matter.

[Texas by God]

WooHoo! I'm glad you got it lined out easily.

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