PDA

View Full Version : After the Resurrection - The next 40 days



Rizzo
04-13-2020, 02:28 PM
After His resurrection Jesus stayed on earth for 40 days.

From what I've read, His appearance was mainly to his apostles.
In that time He was instructing the apostles on how to go forward and teach His teachings.

40 days!
Why didn't He go see Pilate or Caiaphus and say "I'm ba-a-ack!?

I think Jesus blew it in that respect.
Appearing to those leaders, and others, would have left no doubt that he did resurrect after crucifixtion.

Would the Jews and Romans still doubt the nature of Jesus then?

With that "proof" wouldn't everyone have come to the same conclusion that He was the Son of God?

What a different world we would be in now.
I wonder if we would have a more unified religion rather then Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc.?

Thoughts?

Blackwater
04-13-2020, 04:48 PM
Your conclusions are based on YOUR values and perceptions, and NOT on those of Christ himself. Personally, I'm very grateful that He is so very different from us, and unique in all the world. Nobody loves like him. Nobody heals like him. Nobody teaches like him. If he does something, count on it being right and perfect, even if it doesn't mesh with your own attitudes, beliefs, perceptions. He's FAR above and beyond us, and KNOWS what to do and when. Never question Him. He's always perfectly right.

ioon44
04-14-2020, 08:17 AM
Blackwater, good response, I am so glad that Jesus save me and I give him Praise, Glory and Honor.

Bigslug
04-14-2020, 12:58 PM
You ask good questions. ALWAYS ask questions!

Consider:

3 days is a lot lot of time to steal and hide a body.

40 days is a lot of time to come up with a good story, based on the requirement of faith in things that aren't there, leaving the rest to The Goebbels Effect. A whole lot easier than directly confronting the establishment with an army of 12. Especially when directly confronting the establishment gets you flogged and nailed to a board.

Political spin or a medical near-impossibility? Which is more credible?

How likely is the being who used floods, fire, plagues, and firstborn smiting as an unambiguous disciplinary tool (that still didn't work very well, BTW) is going to resort to trusting his message to a game of "telephone" played by the at-that-time largely illiterate human race (which isn't working very well, BTW)? This leaves us 2,000 years later, when we've still got Jews (who are happy with the old message & didn't buy the new one), we've still got Christians, and now we've got Muslims (who needed another message), and severe lacking of consensus even within those camps.

Which brings me to four more questions:

1. Does this being even exist?

2. If this being does exist, how correct are our assessments of its abilities and its plan for us? A fair argument can be made that it WANTS us at each other's throats.

3. Is that being worthy of our adoration?

4. Is basing our worldly interactions on subjective notions that 3/4ths of the world will disagree with because of their own subjective notions really any way to run a planet?

Ickisrulz
04-14-2020, 01:57 PM
God knows people better than we do. Jesus' story of "The Rich Man and Lazarus" ends with the following words (Luke 16:19-31):

"If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."

Anyone who heard what Jesus said and did not believe would not be convinced even if he appeared to them after his resurrection. Jesus appeared to those who believed in him and loved him.

Also keep in mind, the unbelieving Jewish leaders saw Jesus' miracles and did not believe either.

dtknowles
04-14-2020, 05:45 PM
When you write a story that you want to be believed, you can't include things that can easily be disproven.

Tim

Blackwater
04-14-2020, 06:03 PM
Slug, you go ahead and believe whahatever story you want. The rest of us here know better. You won't accept HOW we know, but we know, whether you do, or ever will or not. Even historians now know and recognize that Jesus was indeed a real person who lived just when the Bible says He did. But no amount of rationality nor discoveries nor evidence will ever budge you from your chosen story, just as Ick explains. I wish there were words to get you to see what's so obviously True, but ..... that decision is yours, and even God won't touch your right to make that decision. You already know the consequences for disbelief and denial, and yet, you persist. You add nothing to the discussions here. I wish you'd stop trying to interfere with our productive discussions. It'd just be simple courtesy from one person to another. Boors never change anyone's opinions or attitudes or beliefs.

Bigslug
04-14-2020, 09:29 PM
Hey, the man asked questions expressing doubts and concerns, you gave him "because he's mysterious and not into sharing", and I gave him "keep thinking it through". Straight up theological discussion. You think you're saving him from a fate worse than death, AS DO I. Let's move on.

At no point in that post did I mention that I did not think that a guy named Jesus existed (not that I wouldn't mind seeing his tax returns however). It's the divine hand in that existence we're primarily at odds over. Again, moving on.

JWFilips
04-14-2020, 09:32 PM
Possibly 40 days & we may raise our head from this virus Mess: Think About it

Rizzo
04-15-2020, 01:41 PM
Your conclusions are based on YOUR values and perceptions, and NOT on those of Christ himself.

I think that was obvious when I wrote what I did.


...... If he does something, count on it being right and perfect, even if it doesn't mesh with your own attitudes, beliefs, perceptions. He's FAR above and beyond us, and KNOWS what to do and when. Never question Him. He's always perfectly right.

Uh-huh, you've never wondered why God allows such tragedies to occur where mass death occurs or things like that?
I think most have.
Questioning things brings about investigation into a better understanding.
In forums like this it can generate a thought process that results in an exchange of views on the subject.

So, you have no opinion on the questions asked other than "Never question Him".
Thanks for your...............input.

Rizzo
04-15-2020, 02:07 PM
You ask good questions. ALWAYS ask questions!

Thank you.
I am the inquisitive type.
Details are important to fully understand a topic.


Consider:

3 days is a lot lot of time to steal and hide a body.

40 days is a lot of time to come up with a good story, based on the requirement of faith in things that aren't there, leaving the rest to The Goebbels Effect. A whole lot easier than directly confronting the establishment with an army of 12. Especially when directly confronting the establishment gets you flogged and nailed to a board.

Political spin or a medical near-impossibility? Which is more credible?

How likely is the being who used floods, fire, plagues, and firstborn smiting as an unambiguous disciplinary tool (that still didn't work very well, BTW) is going to resort to trusting his message to a game of "telephone" played by the at-that-time largely illiterate human race (which isn't working very well, BTW)? This leaves us 2,000 years later, when we've still got Jews (who are happy with the old message & didn't buy the new one), we've still got Christians, and now we've got Muslims (who needed another message), and severe lacking of consensus even within those camps.

Which brings me to four more questions:

1. Does this being even exist?

2. If this being does exist, how correct are our assessments of its abilities and its plan for us? A fair argument can be made that it WANTS us at each other's throats.

3. Is that being worthy of our adoration?

4. Is basing our worldly interactions on subjective notions that 3/4ths of the world will disagree with because of their own subjective notions really any way to run a planet?

This forum is a good place for your questions.
I think that many folks here will take them as an attack on their belief system rather than accept them (and you) for what they are, rather than to discuss them.
Thus, you get a bit of negative feedback instead, from what I've read.

Rizzo
04-15-2020, 02:17 PM
God knows people better than we do. Jesus' story of "The Rich Man and Lazarus" ends with the following words (Luke 16:19-31):

"If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."

Anyone who heard what Jesus said and did not believe would not be convinced even if he appeared to them after his resurrection. Jesus appeared to those who believed in him and loved him.

Also keep in mind, the unbelieving Jewish leaders saw Jesus' miracles and did not believe either.

Yes, it is amazing that the Jewish leaders did not believe, despite Jesus' miracles.
I think that there were others back then that had some "abilities" that appeared to be "miracles".
But, raising Lazurus from the dead was over and above those.

Then there was "doubting" Thomas who did not believe until he saw Jesus.
It makes sense to me that others (Pilate, Caiaphus) would then also believe if Jesus would have showed up to them.

Ickisrulz
04-15-2020, 03:33 PM
Yes, it is amazing that the Jewish leaders did not believe, despite Jesus' miracles.
I think that there were others back then that had some "abilities" that appeared to be "miracles".
But, raising Lazurus from the dead was over and above those.

Then there was "doubting" Thomas who did not believe until he saw Jesus.
It makes sense to me that others (Pilate, Caiaphus) would then also believe if Jesus would have showed up to them.

Thomas' doubts were founded in despair. He was a believer in Jesus, but was devastated by his arrest and execution. He didn't dare to believe Jesus was back, to do so risked additional disappointment. (Thomas was an honest man)

Pilate seemed disinterested in Jesus, but he rejected his wife's warning in the matter. The High Priest's unbelief was rooted in defiance, jealousy and hatred for Jesus. An appearance by Jesus to either one of these men would have been pointless.

wmitty
04-19-2020, 02:01 AM
Our Creator made a fascinating comment recorded in John 3:3 when He said “Unless a man is born from above, he can not see the Kingdom of heaven”. Men not born of the Spirit of God are incapable of perceiving/ understanding spiritual matters. Men don’t choose to be born from above; our Creator makes this choice. This is why we have men here who scoff at those of us who know Christ.

dtknowles
04-20-2020, 01:33 AM
Our Creator made a fascinating comment recorded in John 3:3 when He said “Unless a man is born from above, he can not see the Kingdom of heaven”. Men not born of the Spirit of God are incapable of perceiving/ understanding spiritual matters. Men don’t choose to be born from above; our Creator makes this choice. This is why we have men here who scoff at those of us who know Christ.

So you are saying that God chose you to be special and did not choose me. While you might think you are special, I think you are just imagining it.

Tim

kaiser
04-20-2020, 12:01 PM
God being the center of man's every thought and deed ended soon after it began in the "Garden of Eden"; he gave man "free will" to chose his eternal path. Unfortunately, the path man took was one created by man alone. Man is responsible for wars, famine, chaos, hate, crime, etc. God did not, and has not, aided and abet man's destruction of man, except in extreme cases where men led other men and women to debase the spirit in such a manner that evil became the new normal, rather than even a smattering of love shown or expressed in their man made societies. (Haven't we been guilty of eliminating God in our society as well?)

Belief in a "higher power" than oneself is not a new or unique concept. We cannot look into the heavens and truly be mystified of its origin and consider it a "fig newton" of our imagination without considering who or what created such a massive complex array of the universe! God is real, his Son is real (historical and spiritual). There is no way to prove it, or disprove it. To those of us who believe that Jesus is who he said he is based on faith and Bible foretold on the prophets and recorded in the scriptures. That is why acceptance of what we believers accept as fact is more important than ritualistic practices.

There is nothing wrong with questioning our faith, or questioning God's intentions; denying his existence is critical. Denying Jesus to the point of death is final to eternal destination. If you can live without God and the "gift" of his son, you wouldn't want to live in his presence anyway. However, the offer is always there and he (God) will pursue you until you can no longer be pursued. Peace be with you and your journey.

1hole
04-20-2020, 12:42 PM
After His resurrection Jesus stayed on earth for 40 days.... Why didn't He go see Pilate or Caiaphus and say "I'm ba-a-ack!? ... I think Jesus blew it in that respect.

Appearing to those leaders, and others, would have left no doubt that he did resurrect after crucifixtion.

Would the Jews and Romans still doubt the nature of Jesus then?

With that "proof" wouldn't everyone have come to the same conclusion that He was the Son of God?

Sounds reasonable but I think you're wrong and Jesus knew it.

Consider the story of Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham and the "rich man" in hades asking ol' Abe to raise someone to warn his family; Abe pointed out that determined non-believers would not believe even if a witness rose from the dead. (Luke 16:19-31)

Faced with massive evidence, today's non-believers turn away from truth they don't like and seek "wise" support from others (on line or in books) as blind as themselves. "There are none are so blind as those who will not see". Why would you think other non-believers, then or now, would suddenly see spiritual things any differently?

So, "No!", Jesus didn't fail you or anyone else.

** Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus!

a danl
04-20-2020, 04:35 PM
the bible says Jesus was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, can anyone explain good friday till sunday "easter" that's only 2 days and i would think Jesus would have had to have died on thursday. any thoughts on that.

1hole
04-20-2020, 09:06 PM
the bible says Jesus was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, can anyone explain good friday till sunday "easter" that's only 2 days and i would think Jesus would have had to have died on thursday. any thoughts on that.

Yeah, we had some discussion on exactly that question a short time ago but several folk made sure we knew they thought we were wasting their time writing about it. (They didn't say what they thought we should be discussing but .....? :))

Blackwater
04-21-2020, 04:02 PM
[QUOTE=Rizzo;4878844]I think that was obvious when I wrote what I did.

Uh-huh, you've never wondered why God allows such tragedies to occur where mass death occurs or things like that? I think most have.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not putting you down at all. Merely explaining the shortcomings contained within your question, or at least the way you worded it. You're asking the questions from YOUR view. But that view is self-protective and self-concerned. Christ has to think well beyond our individual desires sometimes, and when mass tragedies occur, it'll always be to TRY to teach us a lesson of some sort, such as how to build buildings stronger, how to better protect ourselves, etc. We humans are a pretty dull lot, oftentimes, who CAN work against our own selves, or maybe become so fixated on a goal that we pursue it to our own detriment. Surely you know examples of these type? We can, very simply, be foolish, neglectful, penurious, and all manner of other foibles we display. Christ on the other hand, KNOWS what He's doing, and He knows the consequences, and when He allows many to die in some tragedy, it's to teach us to be more alert, more caring, more focused on what's important, and all manner of other lessons we'd likely never learn if we didn't see dire consequences once in a while.

Questioning things brings about investigation into a better understanding.
In forums like this it can generate a thought process that results in an exchange of views on the subject.

Yes, but asking GOOD questions requires lots of thought beforehand, and careful wording so that we don't create LESS understanding than when we began. Good questions edify. Lesser ones confuse us, often from indistinct language that makes one poster speak from one perspective and perception, and another speak from quite a different perspective and perception. Theology, of all subjects, requires of us more than we're sometimes willing or able to give it. That's why so much of it seems "mysterious." Often, we confuse ourselves by not stating our question more precisely, so that answers can be clear and understandable, rather than a hodge podge of half-understandings. We gain nothing by the later, but good questions and answers edify and teach and explain.

Again, please understand that I meant no disparagement whatsoever. When I think, I tend to think in coldly logical terms, and some sometimes find that offensive, whether it's meant that way or not. Believe me, if I should ever with to disparage someone, I can be pretty good at it, and they'd know exactly what I was intending, and nothing was intended in my post. Sorry you took it that way.

So, you have no opinion on the questions asked other than "Never question Him".
Thanks for your...............input.

I believe if you'll look back, and read my post again, you'll find that I had a good bit to say other than "Never question Him." But that's up to you.

Blackwater
04-21-2020, 04:12 PM
Christ was crucified on Friday and laid in the grave that evening according to Jewish law. Then there was Saturday, without disturbance, and He arose on Sunday. So, we have Friday, Saturday and Sunday - 3 days. Nothing in the Bible says they were all 24 hour days, and most folks would count Friday, and certainly Sunday, so ..... it's 3 days.

Rizzo
04-21-2020, 04:39 PM
[QUOTE=Rizzo;4878844]I think that was obvious when I wrote what I did.

Uh-huh, you've never wondered why God allows such tragedies to occur where mass death occurs or things like that? I think most have.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not putting you down at all. Merely explaining the shortcomings contained within your question, or at least the way you worded it. You're asking the questions from YOUR view. But that view is self-protective and self-concerned. Christ has to think well beyond our individual desires sometimes, and when mass tragedies occur, it'll always be to TRY to teach us a lesson of some sort, such as how to build buildings stronger, how to better protect ourselves, etc. We humans are a pretty dull lot, oftentimes, who CAN work against our own selves, or maybe become so fixated on a goal that we pursue it to our own detriment. Surely you know examples of these type? We can, very simply, be foolish, neglectful, penurious, and all manner of other foibles we display. Christ on the other hand, KNOWS what He's doing, and He knows the consequences, and when He allows many to die in some tragedy, it's to teach us to be more alert, more caring, more focused on what's important, and all manner of other lessons we'd likely never learn if we didn't see dire consequences once in a while.

Questioning things brings about investigation into a better understanding.
In forums like this it can generate a thought process that results in an exchange of views on the subject.

Yes, but asking GOOD questions requires lots of thought beforehand, and careful wording so that we don't create LESS understanding than when we began. Good questions edify. Lesser ones confuse us, often from indistinct language that makes one poster speak from one perspective and perception, and another speak from quite a different perspective and perception. Theology, of all subjects, requires of us more than we're sometimes willing or able to give it. That's why so much of it seems "mysterious." Often, we confuse ourselves by not stating our question more precisely, so that answers can be clear and understandable, rather than a hodge podge of half-understandings. We gain nothing by the later, but good questions and answers edify and teach and explain.

Again, please understand that I meant no disparagement whatsoever. When I think, I tend to think in coldly logical terms, and some sometimes find that offensive, whether it's meant that way or not. Believe me, if I should ever with to disparage someone, I can be pretty good at it, and they'd know exactly what I was intending, and nothing was intended in my post. Sorry you took it that way.

So, you have no opinion on the questions asked other than "Never question Him".
Thanks for your...............input.

I believe if you'll look back, and read my post again, you'll find that I had a good bit to say other than "Never question Him." But that's up to you.

Blackwater,
No offense taken.
I had wrote "Questioning things brings about investigation into a better understanding.
In forums like this it can generate a thought process that results in an exchange of views on the subject."

And that sparked some good input from you.
Thank you for your reply.

Rizzo
04-21-2020, 04:51 PM
Christ was crucified on Friday and laid in the grave that evening according to Jewish law. Then there was Saturday, without disturbance, and He arose on Sunday. So, we have Friday, Saturday and Sunday - 3 days. Nothing in the Bible says they were all 24 hour days, and most folks would count Friday, and certainly Sunday, so ..... it's 3 days.
Yes, that is how I remember it being said when I was taught in my youth.
"....and on the third day He rose....."something like that. Friday, the first day Saturday the second day and He rose on the third day (Sunday).

However, (I can't remember who to give credit to) someone in the other thread about this topic gave a chapter/verse reference to Jesus stating that Like Jonah who was in the belly of the beast (whale) for three days and three nights, so would He be in the grave for three days and three nights.
So-o-o-oo,...............?

It's an interesting thread.
Maybe check it out or reread it.
"What day did Jesus die" is the name of the thread, or something similar.

LuscombeFlyer
04-21-2020, 07:22 PM
Good points Ickisrulz.

I've thought at times the same thing the original poster wrote about. I've also wondered why God doesn't appear physically on the Earth today. Surely everyone would believe then, right? But then I'm reminded of the Exodus; the Israelites witnessed the awful plagues brought on Egypt, the parting of the Red Sea, God's constant physical presence as a pillar of cloud by day and fire by night, but they STILL didn't believe, trust, and obey God's commandments. And I have no reason to believe that we'd be any better today.

LuscombeFlyer
04-21-2020, 07:29 PM
Bingo!

The unregenerate, or un-reborn, not only will not believe, they cannot, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast"

GBertolet
04-21-2020, 07:49 PM
I recently was watching a prophecy program by Hal Lindsey. He explained the controversy over the days and nights. The Jewish day at that time, ran from 6pm to 6pm, and Good Friday was technically a Thursday. Also the Crucifixion was during the Passover period, which that particular one, had an additional sabbath day. It's a little confusing to me, but the specified days and nights, over the Crucifixion and Resurrection, do work out over that period.

dtknowles
04-21-2020, 08:49 PM
Good points Ickisrulz.

I've thought at times the same thing the original poster wrote about. I've also wondered why God doesn't appear physically on the Earth today. Surely everyone would believe then, right? But then I'm reminded of the Exodus; the Israelites witnessed the awful plagues brought on Egypt, the parting of the Red Sea, God's constant physical presence as a pillar of cloud by day and fire by night, but they STILL didn't believe, trust, and obey God's commandments. And I have no reason to believe that we'd be any better today.


I don't think my belief would be stronger if God appeared but if along with his appearance some sort of communication was forthcoming it might change my behavior. That God exists seems obvious enough but how he prefers we act is debated. It might unify the worlds religions.

Tim