S&W Victory Model .38 S&W - Who knows their history?

[Hanzy4200]

I grabbed this S&W Victory Model on Gunbroker for $475 + $25 shipping. I may or may not have been catatonic after browsing guns for hours. I never buy without much research, but I did on this one. It is chambered for the .38 S&W. From what I gather, this would mean it was not issued to US troops, even though it bears a US Property stamp correct? There are no markings that would denote usage by other nations though, like many others I have seen. It bummed me a little it probably wasn't US issued, though it is still a cool historical piece. Was $475 a fair price? It looks to be in 90% condition. All matching minus the grips.


Now to the cartridge. I know little about it. I am glad to jump this hurdle as I have passed up a number of older revolvers due to this caliber in the past. I also stumbled on 40-50 pieces of once fired brass at the range maybe 3 months ago. Might be enough as I don't plan on shooting it often. As for molds, I currently have 3 .38 spl molds, and 2 9MM Mak molds. All are in the ballpark size. Can I get away with sizing/not sizing any of these into .38 S&W pills? I'd rather not spend $85 on a mold that I might use once a year.

[StuBach]

Nice grab. Going to watch this myself cause I’ve been looking to reload for my Lemonsqueezer in 38SW so curious about answers you get.

[cwtebay]

Cool pistol! I think the V prefix puts it in the WW2 production. You may check the chambers of your revolver, I seem to remember hearing someone say that the 38 S&W marking was used to differentiate it from 38 Colt - and was actually a 38 special ( NOT SAYING THAT IT IS A 38 SPECIAL!!!).
Betting someone on here will have a bunch of info to add here!

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[StuBach]

Cool pistol! I think the V prefix puts it in the WW2 production. You may check the chambers of your revolver, I seem to remember hearing someone say that the 38 S&W marking was used to differentiate it from 38 Colt - and was actually a 38 special ( NOT SAYING THAT IT IS A 38 SPECIAL!!!).
Betting someone on here will have a bunch of info to add here!

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

“The .38 Colt New Police was Colt's Manufacturing Company's proprietary name for what was essentially the .38 S&W with a flat-nosed bullet.[1]”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_S&W

[elk hunter]

If it's 38 S&W and not 38 Special then it was meant to be sent to England during WW-2 under the "lend-lease" program or was built under contract for them. Check the cylinder chambers to see if they have been reamed to take 38 Special, many of them were so they were easier to sell here in the US when they were came back. I don't see the usual British proof marks on the cylinder so perhaps it didn't get sent over. IIRC the 38 S&W bullet diameter is .360 but you may want to try regular .357 or .358 bullets before you invest in a mould. I have two Victory models and both have been reamed but shoot 38 Special ammo quite well.

[Outpost75]

The S&W Victory models chambered in .38 S&W went mostly to Britain, Australia, NZ and have 5-inch barrels vs. the 4-inch barrels used on US .38 Specials. Groove diameters on both of mine run large, .360" and cylinder throats .362". Using factory 146-grain .38 S&W ammo point of impact is about 6 inches low at 25 yards. Both of mine shoot to the sights with the Accurate 36-190T bullet with 2.5 grains of Bullseye for 640 fps. This load exceeds published data for .38 S&W and should not be used in the top-break Enfields, pre-war Colts or older S&W I-frames, but only in the S&W Victory, postwar J-frame models 32 and 33 and the Ruger "India" models. I use the RCBS "Cowboy" dies to load for these, as a substantial roll crimp is necessary to prevent inertial dislodgement of the heavier bullets.

I briefly tried soft-swaged 158-grain LRN .38 Special component bullets of .358" diameter and they leaded the cylinder throats and barrel and shot poorly. Soft swaged .38 Special HBWCs seated in .38 S&W brass to 1.20" OAL with 2.7 grains of Bullseye are accurate, but hit low in relation to the sights. If you intend to shoot the revolver only occasionally and do not want to invest in a mold, Matt's Bullets offers the NOE clone of the Mk1 service bullet: https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72&products_id=308&zenid=j4t0gpchta4j5f6t0g04nkk4h2

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[Der Gebirgsjager]

That was a fair price, and I've seen them go much higher in that nice condition.

[Baltimoreed]

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I have an ugly one with British marks that was cut down and rebored to 38 spcl. Has the lanyard ring just didn’t show in my pix. Seems to shoot hbwc fine. Replaced some parts and slicked it up so it has a great action. I found a nice pair of checkered prewar grips that feel good and look alot better than the banged up ones. It also shoots 38 s&w too. I like your Victory, you found a nice one.

[Earlwb]

I own a early model S&W in .38 S&W too. But it doesn't have the British proofmarks on it, so it may have been for local consumption at the time. I think the guns were part of a fascinating time in history.

[JoeJames]

A buddy came up with a Victory in 38S&W and asked me if I reloaded them. So; I got in a set of dies and brass, and loaded some up. I have not tried them yet but I used swaged hollow base 38 Special wad cutters. Some say the 38S&W Victory is grooved at .360" and the wad cutters are .358, but I think they will obturate to fit.I also loaded some 160 grain round nose pulled bullets, and some SWC's, but I am betting on the HBWC's.
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[rintinglen]

I am a bit dismayed at the prices these things are going for and the interest they are generating. I bought mine 20 odd years ago for 99 dollars and had I waited a couple of months, I could have had it for 89 bucks, as the off-center caliber made for little interest. Especially, when one considers that at the time police trade-in S&W 38 specials were readily available and at no higher cost, these were a bit of a dog on the market. I converted mine to a snub-nose 38 Special. Finding suitable Parts was a chore. Note the phosphate frame and the blued barrel and cylinder.
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However, the history of these firearms is quite interesting. According to the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson, these were WWII limited standard substitutes for the standard Enfield and Webley 38 Revolvers. After Dunkerque, Great Britain was desperate for small arms of virtually any sort. In 1939, They had contracted with Smith and Wesson to build a "Light Rifle," but the result of S&W's efforts was unsatisfactory and the Brits cancelled the contract and asked for the balance of their money back. Smith and Wesson could not return the money; it was already spent on up graded tooling and related expenses. Instead, they offered to provide M&P Revolvers chambered for the 38/200 cartridge--which was nothing more than a heavy bullet version of the antique 38 S&W cartridge--to fulfill the balance of the contract. They continued to make them under the aegis of the U.S. Government's Lend-Lease program. As I under stand it, the ones stamped "U.S. Property" or "United States Property" were Lend-Lease guns, while the earlier guns that were actually purchased by the British will lack that marking, while still having the proliferation of Proof Marks so indicative of British use. Any ways, over 550,000 thousand were manufactured during the War, more, in fact, than the "Standard" Enfield Mk. I and I* Revolvers.

[Hanzy4200]

I am thinking of trying out some unsized powder coated bullets. I have a older Lyman full wadcutter mold, that drops at .3585. With the PC, it should bring it up to almost .360. It's worth a try. As to buying a new mold, aside from the higher end stuff, I haven't located anything from RCBS, Lyman, or Lee that casts at .360.

[smkummer]

I have loaded 38 S&W with 9mm dies using a 38 special shell holder. While the sizer isn’t correct, it will work. When I bought Lee dies for either 38 super or 38 S&W, only the sizer die was marked 38 acp/38 S&W. The expander and bullet seating die was marked 9mm.

[Green Frog]

I’m amazed that I haven’t noticed anyone suggesting the S&W Forum. In the page for the early hand ejectors there is a running thread built on a Victory Model database. Lots of great discussion there.

Meanwhile my first step would be to check for rechambering by trying a 38 Special round to see whether it has suffered that indignity. If not I would then go into 38 S&W loading. The factory ammo is not common, but is available. If starting from scratch, I’d try to find a box or two both to test fire the gun and to build a supply of brass to reload.

I would then reread all of the suggestions of Outpost75, then buy some 200 gr bullets in .360” or a mould to cast them, and a set of dies specific to load this caliber. Load, shoot, reload, repeat! ;)

But first I’d go to the S&W Forum and research the Victory Model, its history, and loading a lot. JMHO, YMMV. :coffee:

Froggie

[Outpost75]

Best source of .38 S&W brass is Starline.

If you want to buy factory loads to accumulate brass Fiocchi is inexpensive and the brass good.

[Shawlerbrook]

Here’s my British 38 S&W.


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[toot]

I beleave that the BRITISH designation for this revolver was- 38/200. 38 CAL, 200 GRAIN BULLET.

[Outpost75]

I beleave that the BRITISH designation for this revolver was- 38/200. 38 CAL, 200 GRAIN BULLET.

The official designator was:

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[Hanzy4200]

I've been doing some reading on converting brass from .38 Special. Seems a lot of people say it equals split cases, but most of those who have actually done it say it works fine. Considering the mouse fart pressures, it's not surprising. I love Starline, but buying 500 of these might be overkill.

[Outpost75]

I've been doing some reading on converting brass from .38 Special. Seems a lot of people say it equals split cases, but most of those who have actually done it say it works fine. Considering the mouse fart pressures, it's not surprising. I love Starline, but buying 500 of these might be overkill.

How many cases do you need? If a few hundred will do and you don't care about mixed headstamps I could send you a small FRB full for reimbursement of the postage and you can PIF the favor to somebody else.

[jimb16]

My Victory model is a VS serial numbered gun. These were originally made in .38 Special. It is a Navy issued revolver that came in its original holster. The holster is marked with the name of the Naval Lt. who wore it. I'm guessing that he was an aviator. Seriously accurate firearm.

[Hanzy4200]

I got the bullets squared away! The Lyman .38 wadcutters, with powder coat, unsized are coming in at exactly .360. Perfect.

[murf205]

That is what I had to do. I bought 2 boxes of factory ammo just to get the brass because I figured 100 would last a long time since the pressure is pretty low on this round. I pulled one of the RN boolits and it measured .358. When I took the gun, it's a model 33 S&W, to the range, it leaded something awful and wouldn't hit a bull in the ash. Back home I dug out some 158 gr boolits that I had pc'ed but never sized and they were .360. Presto! The little gun shoots better than I can. Fit is indeed king.

[murf205]

Hanzy, from the looks of that gun you did well. It is really cool to own a piece of history that you can shoot. If I ever find another 1917 S&W 45 that someone doesn't want my first born for, I am going to snatch it up. I sold mine a few yrs ago like a dumb ***, so don't let that happen to you.

[Outpost75]

I got the bullets squared away! The Lyman .38 wadcutters, with powder coat, unsized are coming in at exactly .360. Perfect.

Your CARE package is on the way with "sterile" (unheadstamped) cases and 190-grain bullets.