My New Old Star Lubesizer

[texasmac]

Several days ago I posted in the Swapping & Selling section that I was looking for a used Star Lubesizer. The used Star arrived a few days ago & I just finished cleaning it up. What I thought was yellow paint on top of the blue was actually the blue wearing off & exposing the yellow primer. In any case it was obviously not very attractive so all the paint was removed. The unit is in great shape, everything is tight & work smoothly, & I got it for less than half the price of a new one. I’ve got several dies, couple of punches, punch nuts and a die removal tool on order. Most if not all the usage will be lubing BPCR bullets with soft lube which I shoot unsized. Pan lubing works well on some but not on others with shallow grooves and the lube I use. Can’t wait to use it.

https://i.imgur.com/500DDLU.jpg

Wayne

[rcslotcar]

A little elbow grease and you have a great sizer!!!

[nuclearcricket]

Yep that looks nice. If you could so a 100% tear down, I think it would be a good candidate for a powder coat job. All in all tho it seems you have made out well. In just looking at the pictures, there just doesn't seem to be much of anything on there that would wear to the point of causing any problems. That Star should, imho, provide you with many many years of good service. And it might even end up being faster than pan lubing in the long run.
Sam

[texasmac]

Yep that looks nice. If you could so a 100% tear down, I think it would be a good candidate for a powder coat job. All in all tho it seems you have made out well. In just looking at the pictures, there just doesn't seem to be much of anything on there that would wear to the point of causing any problems. That Star should, imho, provide you with many many years of good service. And it might even end up being faster than pan lubing in the long run.
Sam

With no lube preparation and due to the 1 bullet per handle pull operation I'm betting it will definitely be faster than pan lubing. In addition to the price of the dies, the one possible negative is the lube will be a little softer in the grooves due to work softening as it's squeezed through the orifices of the lubesizer. But that depends on if you’re shooting in Arizona in the summer vs. Montana in the colder months where it would be an advantage. I also have a SAECO lubesizer and know for a fact that the same lube is firmer in the grooves with pan lubing vs. a lubersizer.

Wayne

[skeettx]

Great post and wonderful effort
Use it well !
Mike

[texasmac]

Yep that looks nice. If you could do a 100% tear down, I think it would be a good candidate for a powder coat job.
Sam

Sam,

I seriously considered tearing it down completely and powder coating it similar to the silver gray color of the current Star. I was about half way through tear down & ran into some of the pins which were extremely tight and would not bulge. Risking cracking the cast parts I decided just to remove all the paint. As displayed the results look pretty good.

Wayne

[Tom Myers]

Wow!
I thought that the old Star should clean up pretty good but that, by far, exceeds anything. I imagined.

You might try repeated applications of an ATF/acetone mix or some Kroil to those frozen pins for a week or so. In my experience, that has usually worked quite well.

Good job Wayne.

[texasmac]

Wow!
I thought that the old Star should clean up pretty good but that, by far, exceeds anything. I imagined.
You might try repeated applications of an ATF/acetone mix or some Kroil to those frozen pins for a week or so. In my experience, that has usually worked quite well.
Good job Wayne.

Yup, the results surprised me also. I have both Kroil & ATF/acetone mix that I keep handy for frozen pins, nuts, etc. But due to the results I'm going to leave well enough alone & not attempt further tear down. Thanks again for selling it to me.

Wayne

[cjensen]

I get a lot of lube leakage if I do not size the bullet enough to seal the bullet in the die while the lube pumps in.

[texasmac]

I get a lot of lube leakage if I do not size the bullet enough to seal the bullet in the die while the lube pumps in.

I wonder about that possibility since the dies I ordered will only size the bullets 0.0008" at most, possibly less. I assume it depends to some extent on the viscosity of the lube. I'll be using soft lube without a heater. I'll find out in a couple of weeks when the dies arrive.

Wayne

[rbwillnj]

Your new old Star looks nice, but it's actually a Phelps. Nothing wrong with that, they made a good copy. I think the knurled nut might be from a Star, but the rest is Phelps. Most people are not even aware of Phelps so they assume they have a Star. The dies and punches are interchangeable.

[Springfield]

New Stars look just like that, no paint. It's not like the aluminum is going to rust. And even if you got the pins out, you need to heat the parts to disassemble, not worth it all, due to risk of damage.

[onelight]

That turned out great! You did good.

[texasmac]

Your new old Star looks nice, but it's actually a Phelps. Nothing wrong with that, they made a good copy. I think the knurled nut might be from a Star, but the rest is Phelps. Most people are not even aware of Phelps so they assume they have a Star. The dies and punches are interchangeable.

rbwillnj,

Very interesting. After comparing the photos below of all three I tend to agree, especially since the non-legible damaged label that was on the reservoir of mine looked like the Phelps and the Phelps 2-tone paint job which suggests mine is a Phelps plus the cast aluminum parts match up real well with the Phelps as does the handle. But there are subtle differences in all three. For example the pressure screw nut on mine matches a Star as you noted. And the transfer bolt (fulcrum lever pushrod assembly) to the fulcrum or lube lever on mine does not have a double head as does the Star and Phelps – mine is pointed on one end. And the Phelps has a set screw for the die which neither mine nor the Star displays although I know the Star had a die setscrew at one time. The pins that hold several of the parts together are slightly different on mine vs. the Phelps. And finally the Star has a large reservoir tube nut just above the bottom cast housing which is not on mine or the Phelps. BTW, there are some other minor differences not worth noting.

So I agree with you. Mine is a Phelps with one or possibly two Star components.

Dang, so Tom ripped me off. Sold me a $42 Phelps at 4X the price - just kidding Tom. :-D I don’t care if it’s a Star or Phelps. It’s in great shape & I would have bought it regardless. So I’m a happy camper or in this case a happy lubber or happy sizer. ;)

Wayne

https://i.imgur.com/jXCJJYS.jpg

[rbwillnj]

Star Lubesizers were in production (Pre Magma Engineering) for over 60 years. There were a few small changes over that period. The addition of the large jam nut at the base of the lube reservoir came relatively late, probably in the early 70s, though I have never been able to pin down an exact year.

[texasmac]

Star Lubesizers were in production (Pre Magma Engineering) for over 60 years. There were a few small changes over that period. The addition of the large jam nut at the base of the lube reservoir came relatively late, probably in the early 70s, though I have never been able to pin down an exact year.

Bruce,

One of the changes I noticed when looking at YouTube videos of the current Star is both the lube reservoir pressure spring and the pump spring are now made of round stock rather than the square stock used for older units including my Phelps. Also the current photo of the Star on Magma's website does not have the die setscrew. Since my Phelps does not have a setscrew I'm wondering if it's really useful?

Wayne

[texasmac]

Bruce,

Look at the highlighted difference in my unit vs. a Phelps & a Star. BTW, I look at around a hundred photos or more of Star & Phelps units since you identified mine as a Phelps & none show the same configuration of the center casting as does mine. Interesting.

BTW, both photos to the right are yours off StarReloading.com which brings me to a problem I have. I was able to access your photos but StarReloading.com will not allow me to register due to having an email address ending in @sbcglobal.net. Is there anyway to get around this. I've registered on hundreds of websites & it's the 1st time I've run into this. If you control access than don't take offense but I think this is a ridiculous requirement. sbcglobal.net is a very popular email extension so the site is no doubt stopping a lot of guys from registering.

Wayne

https://i.imgur.com/lbP5GmW.jpg

[Tom Myers]

Bruce,

Look at the highlighted difference in my unit vs. a Phelps & a Star. BTW, I look at around a hundred photos or more of Star & Phelps units since you identified mine as a Phelps & none show the same configuration of the center casting as does mine. Interesting.

Wayne

Well I''l be darned. I have had that Phelps and a Star,(One of the newer, silver ones), setting on a shelf, side by side, for years and I never noticed the difference in the column sliders.

[texasmac]

Well I''l be darned. I have had that Phelps and a Star,(One of the newer, silver ones), setting on a shelf, side by side, for years and I never noticed the difference in the column sliders.

Hey there Tom,

I don't see the benefit of one design over the other. If it's meant to limit the upward movement of sliding column than the linkage on mine stops way prior to the column rising that high anyway. Maybe Bruce can comment?

Wayne

[rbwillnj]

Phelps Engineering was a machine shop in East Orange New Jersey (near Newark). A guy by the name of Dan Fausto brought a Star reloader to John Phelps and asked him if he could copy it. He did. He made the Phelps Standard reloader equivalent to the Star Progressive, and he made the Phelps Deluxe reloader equivalent to the Star Universal. At some point he must have brought a Star Lube Sizer to John Phelps, and they copied that as well. John Phelps was production, Dan Fausto was marketing and Sales. Later Phelps moved to Suffix NJ and not long after declared Bankruptcy. Dan Fausto bought the parts and machinery and continued to assemble Phelps reloaders and Lubsizers under the name of Phelps Reloaders Inc. of East Orange New Jersey. He eventually move his operations to Milford New Jersey, about three miles from my house.

The machines assembled by John Phelps were pretty good. Tolerances were not as tight as a Star, but still pretty good. They made a few changes to short cut some machining steps, but still made a pretty good machine. Fausto, was not a machinist, he was a New Jersey Police officer. He assembled machines from parts, and had Phelps make some additional parts for him for a while. The machines made by Fausto were highly variable in quality. Fausto suffered form Limes Disease and Dementia, and is gone now.

In terms of design, I think Phelps started to copy the Star design, but then looked for areas where they could take shortcuts on manufacturing without hurting function.

Long before I had the opportunity to buy Star, I had the opportunity to buy what was left of Phelps. However, most of the parts were seconds, and they were tying to sell the parts and equipment as if was an ongoing viable business, not just a collection of parts and obsolete equipment......and it wasn't Star.

Bruce Williams

[texasmac]

Bruce,

Thanks for the Phelps Engineering history. Interesting reading.

Wayne

[texasmac]

Bruce,

Do you know when Magma Engr. purchased the rights to manufacture & sell the Star Lubesizers? Thanks.

Wayne

[rbwillnj]

Star closed their doors sometime in 1997. That's when Magma Engineering bought the Lubesizer business and Bill Cunningham bought the reloader business. I bought the reloader business from Bill in 2014.

I'm not sure, but I think Magma might have had an arrangement with Star where they were selling Star Lubesizers and dies before 1997.

[ReloaderFred]

Among my collection of Star Sizers, there is a tall "commercial" version marked Magma. The tall one holds three sticks of lube in the reservoir, and mine is the only one I've seen, though I know there are others out there, but usually marked Star. On mine, the collet the handle goes through had been drilled slightly off and when the handle was in the lowest position, my knuckles hit the base. The previous owner had bent the handle up to save his knuckles, but I wanted to use a roller handle on mine, since I find them so much easier to use, especially for long sessions.

I called Magma and they told me it must have been built by Star, since they didn't sell any, but when I told them is was stamped Magma, they told me it must have been one of the first ones they made when they took over the product line. He did tell me they still had a couple of the longer reservoirs in the back from the original parts they received from Star. I did send my machine back, and they installed a new collet with the proper angle for the roller handle.

I also have another one that I though may have been a prototype, since the castings are slightly different, especially the carrier casting. It hadn't been drilled for a handle, but instead had a 1/2" bolt head, and the previous owner had used a 1/2" wrench for a handle. Magma installed the proper collet for use with a roller handle, and they told me they believed someone had made a copy of either a Star, or a Magma machine, rather than a prototype. I'll have to work on getting some pictures of these two machines and see if I can post them.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[rbwillnj]

Reloader Fred,

You mean something like this?

[ReloaderFred]

Yep, that's the tall one. Mine is Magma stamped on the base and requires the O-ring on the die, or it will leak. Once the O-ring is in place, it doesn't leak at all.

For some of my Star sizers, I use teflon plumber's tape around the top of the sizing die, and that takes care of most of the seeping of lube around the die. There's no telling how many thousands of bullets have been through my machines, but they were all used when I purchased them. Some had been used hard, and a couple had hardly been used at all.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[texasmac]

Since starting this thread I've received several dies, a couple of punches and accessories from Chris Smith (lathesmith). I've lubed several hundred bullets so far with no lube leakage around the top of the dies but I am getting a little lube leakage around the bottom of the dies.

Also, I asked the question earlier about the need for the die set screw & no one responded. My Phelps does not have one and I fail to see the benefit. If there is a reason for the screw I could easily drill and tap for it. Any comments?

BTW, Chris Smith (lathesmith) makes some very nice dies and accessories for the Star. I'm very pleased with his pricing and service.

Wayne

[rbwillnj]

The set screw is meant to hold the die in place. It's possible, but extremely rare that lube pressure could push the die up. If that's not a problem for you, then don't worry about the set screw. The set screw is often a source of lube leakage...but a minor problem.

[texasmac]

The set screw is meant to hold the die in place. It's possible, but extremely rare that lube pressure could push the die up. If that's not a problem for you, then don't worry about the set screw. The set screw is often a source of lube leakage...but a minor problem.

Thanks Bruce. Since it has not been a problem so far I'd never considered the lube pushing the die up.

Wayne

[ReloaderFred]

Bruce,

Here's a photo of my tall Star, next to my Star copy:

https://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m606/ReloaderFred/DSCF2129.jpg (https://s1134.photobucket.com/user/ReloaderFred/media/DSCF2129.jpg.html)

Notice on the copy how the carrier casting was made, and on the base, the screw hole positions are just off enough that it won't fit on a heater base. Whoever made it, used a 1/2" wrench for a handle, but Magma installed the regular bushing on it and it now sports a regular handle.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[gnappi]

I'd go so far to say you had a GR8 sizer before you spent the time. Thanks, now I know what's under all of the stuff on mine.