Silencers for use with lead bullets

[mergus]

Gentlemen, I need advice as to what brand/model of silencer to buy to use on a custom rifle that will be chambered in .45LC and be used with lead bullets exclusively. I assume that it will need to one that can be disassembled for cleaning. Any advice you can give would be appreciated.

Moderators, if this is not the right place or sub forum, please direct as appropriate.

Mergus

[Kylongrifle32]

Mergus

I would definitely go with a suppressor that can be disassembled for cleaning. I don't want to give any advice on which brand name to go with as I have only experience with one suppressor. I had no one to converse with on the subject of suppressor and I purchased a Yankee Hill Phantom. This is a solid built unit. I found out how much fun it is to shot subsonic 22 lr's in the back yard and wish I now had a suppressor that I could disassemble for cleaning. I also after shooting suppressed rounds would like to get a 30 cal unit. I'm sure banging steel plates with a 200 grain plus bullet is way more fun than plinking them with a 40 grain bullet.

So I would give it a long thought a figure out if you only want to use the 45 LC or if other calibers will be in the future. You may want to look into a suppressor that you can charge the end caps for different calibers. Silence co makes one called the Hybrid.

Good luck with your choice.

[JimB..]

So custom rifle, I’d skip the idea of a detachable can and go for an integral. For a low pressure round like 45lc you want something that you can take apart.

Google “integrally suppressed 45lc” to get started.

[Larry Gibson]

Definitely want to be able to take the suppressor apart. I use a Silencerco 45-HD on my Rhineland 45 ACP conversion M98 Mauser. Note; Silenserco does not recommend cast bullets and suggests, with jacketed bullets, to clean every 500 rounds or so. It is made for 45 ACP and my experience with it is most likely what you'd experience with any suppressor in 45 Colt with sub-sonic cast bullets. I've shot a lot of regular lubed (hard and soft lubes), TL'd and PC'd bullets through mine.

Cast bullets with a softer lube such as BAC will build up quite a bit of lube, carbon and lead on the baffles. I usually clean the suppressor after every 150 - 200 rounds. After disassembly I wipe the baffles with a paper towel which removes a lot of the softer fouling. Then I soak all the internal parts in milsurp bore cleaner over night. A degreaser such as WD-40s works good if I want to clean them right away w/o soaking overnight. A small wire brush (sold for gun cleaning) is handy to remove the harder deposits of carbon/lean.

The TL'd and PC'd bullets leave much harder deposit of carbon and lube residue. Also they leave a harder deposit of lead. …..even after just 50 rounds. Soaking overnight helps a lot with the lube/PC/carbon and it then wipes off easily. However the lead deposits require brushing and even scraping the get them off.

After testing I now just use standard lubed cast bullets and clean the suppressor ever 150 +/- rounds. It's just a matter of..... if you want to dance, you've got to pay the band...…

BTW; with my standard 45 ACP practice load using 190 - 230 gr cast bullets over 5 gr Bullseye the velocity runs 980 - 1050 fps out of the suppressed M98. They are quieter than my 22 cal air rifle (RWS M54).

260093

[waksupi]

I remember seeing at one time, if you dip the suppressor in Ed's Red before firing, the clean up is much easier.

[SwissShooter]

I have 3 GEMTECH suppressors. None are to be taken apart. Periodically I spray them out with the "bad" kind of brake cleaner. Brings out lots of crud. Shooting hot Jword loads also burns out crud. If I had it to do over, I'd buy ones that can be taken apart. GEMTECH says when you hit 5000 rounds, send em' in to be cleaned.

[PhatForrest]

I use a Liberty Mystic for .22, cast 9mm, and 223. The monocore design is easy to take apart and clean.

You can get fixed barrel adapters, pistol boosters, 3 lug mounts, and others too. The new Mystic X suppressors are rated to 300WM.

[missionary5155]

I have enjoyed reading through this thread. Very helpful to an older feller who may need to look at this possibility.

[Nobade]

If you're going to shoot cast boolits through a suppressor it's a good idea to powder coat them. That way it's no different from using j-word ones.

[Finster101]

My .30 cal can for .300 blackout comes apart for cleaning. I had a jar of Frog Lube paste I wasn't using and found it very good to coat the inside of the suppressor with. I shoot PCd subs in it and I can usually just wipe it out after several range trips.

[omphacite]

I've been very happy with my Obsidian 45 for cast bullets. Lots of mounting options and a great warranty.

I shoot mostly Hi-tek coated bullets and have not noticed any extra residue on internal surfaces.

[psychodad]

I've been very happy with my Obsidian 45 for cast bullets. Lots of mounting options and a great warranty.

I shoot mostly Hi-tek coated bullets and have not noticed any extra residue on internal surfaces.

Good to know. I have the same can in jail that should be getting released very soon. I just cast and Hi-Tek coated a bunch of boolits for subs.

[Elmer Fudd]

You can use a steel, as opposed to titanium or aluminum, suppressor and clean it with "the dip," which is a mixture of household vinegar (3% acidity) and store bought hydrogen peroxide, mixed half and half. It will dissolve lead you can't get to, but it eats aluminum.
A take-down suppressor is helpful, but limits you. Some new pistol suppressors are take-down, but most rifle cans are not. I use a Hybrid a lot with good results. It cleans in the ultrasonic or the dip readily. With low pressure 45 Colt loads you will be safe with a pistol can, but if you intend to shoot ruger level loads, you will need a can rated for that. Talk to the manufacturer of the can you want to use BEFORE you take someone else's word for it.

[popper]

vinegar (3% acidity) and store bought hydrogen peroxide - Supposedly hard on steel but stainless is OK. Add DC current and it speeds up reaction. And the resultant liquid is toxic. Just use wisely.

[NoZombies]

You can use a steel, as opposed to titanium or aluminum, suppressor and clean it with "the dip," which is a mixture of household vinegar (3% acidity) and store bought hydrogen peroxide, mixed half and half. It will dissolve lead you can't get to, but it eats aluminum.
A take-down suppressor is helpful, but limits you. Some new pistol suppressors are take-down, but most rifle cans are not. I use a Hybrid a lot with good results. It cleans in the ultrasonic or the dip readily. With low pressure 45 Colt loads you will be safe with a pistol can, but if you intend to shoot ruger level loads, you will need a can rated for that. Talk to the manufacturer of the can you want to use BEFORE you take someone else's word for it.

Stainless is okay in the dip, carbon steel pits and disolves, the same as aluminum. Ti depends on the alloy. I've got a Ti .22 can that's got many hundreds of thousands of rounds through it, and many many cycles in the dip with no alloy degradation.

[BABore]

Liberty Mystic X with the upgrade for a 300 BO bolt gun, 9mm, and 77/357. All with PB or GC design with no GC using 40:1 alloy and Hi-Tek coating. The monocore comes apart easy and goes into an ultrasonic cleaner. Liberty also has a couple 45 cans that are similar design.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I've been shooting a good amount of rifle cast loads at around 1550 fps. I use the 45/45/10 tumble lube. Bore just wipes clean after a couple dozen shots. You should not be getting lead deposits if your boolit fit, alloy and lube are up to snuff. Cast is a natural for suppressed fire of subsonic loads @ > 1050 fps. And a pistol round out of a 16" or 20" barrel should not have much pressure behind the boolit at the muzzle, particularly with subsonic loads.

[NoZombies]

What bullets do in a bore, and what they do going through the suppressor are different things. Even with fairly low uncorking pressure there's still enough gas rushing past the bullet through the baffles that an uncoated bullet is likely to leave lead deposits in the baffle stack, no matter how cleanly it shoots through the barrel.

[Larry Gibson]

PC'd bullets still leave a good amount of lead and PC deposits. So do TL'd bullets. 45 ACP Loaded over 5 gr Bullseye.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

What bullets do in a bore, and what they do going through the suppressor are different things. Even with fairly low uncorking pressure there's still enough gas rushing past the bullet through the baffles that an uncoated bullet is likely to leave lead deposits in the baffle stack, no matter how cleanly it shoots through the barrel.

I'll buy that.

[fcvan]

I'm going to expand upon the PC thing. I have been shooting PCd boolits for quite some time after 4 decades of lubed boolits. Love it, stuff is tough, and stuff doesn't stick to it well. Heck, even the frame on my Harley, and the deck on my mower are PCd.

I would think about Powder Coating the internals of the suppressor, taking into account for the tolerances effected by the thickness of the coating, would be a consideration. It takes a lot to remove PC from metal, provided the surface is prepped. Even the vinegar/peroxide won't effect the PC. I'm sure Hoppe's #9 won't bother the stuff. A previous suggestion posted was coating the internals with Alox which made cleanup a breeze.

In any event, I wouldn't own a suppressor that could not be disassembled. Cleaning gas ports on M1As and Mini 14s is a female dog, but is made easier because you have parts you can disassemble. The same can be said for the AR 10/15 platform.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

PC'd bullets still leave a good amount of lead and PC deposits. So do TL'd bullets. 45 ACP Loaded over 5 gr Bullseye.

I looked up slow motion suppressor online and found some high speed camera clips of a subsonic 300 BO leaving a can. Interestingly enough, they captured supersonic particles leaving the can ahead of the bullet. So that would jive with your experience. Those particles settle on the suppressor internals and probably get melted on during subsequent firings.

[reddog81]

PC isn't a cure all for using lead bullets in a suppressor, however the reduced fouling compared to any regular lead lubed bullet is significant. If buying something for use with lead lubed bullets I'd suggest something stainless that can be taken apart and cleaned. If your going to go through the hassle of getting a suppressor it's probably worth it to spend a little extra and get something high quality. But once, cry once...

[fcvan]

Very good point. Also cheaper to get the license to produce your own, can’t sell them or will them, but can make what you want (other details too)

[Elkins45]

Very good point. Also cheaper to get the license to produce your own, can’t sell them or will them, but can make what you want (other details too)

A Form 1 silencer can be passed on to your heirs on a Form 5 no differently that a commercial Form 4 can.

[NoZombies]

Very good point. Also cheaper to get the license to produce your own, can’t sell them or will them, but can make what you want (other details too)

To pick a nit, it's not a license if you file a form 1, it's a registration. If you meant a manufacturer's license, then you have to sell them, as it must be a business to be legal.


A Form 1 silencer can be passed on to your heirs on a Form 5 no differently that a commercial Form 4 can.

It can also be sold just like any other can, with the same restrictions and rules. You paid the making tax and it's all legal and not classified any differently than a can you bought from a dealer or manufacturer. A number of the transferable machine guns in the registry were made on form 1's.

[bpatterson84]

The problem with take down cans is they are heavier than they need to be on the wrong end of your rifle. I’m going to stick with coated bullets and welded cans. I have a few centerfire rifle takedown cans, and it’s just not worth the weight penalty. If I were to go for one however, it would probably be a Liberty mystic X or Cosmic.

[dragon813gt]

vinegar (3% acidity) and store bought hydrogen peroxide - Supposedly hard on steel but stainless is OK. Add DC current and it speeds up reaction. And the resultant liquid is toxic. Just use wisely.

This is the “the dip” and really shouldn’t be used. There is no way to properly dispose of it after use. It’s works extremely well but is highly toxic. Lead acetate is not something you want to touch. Technically you can precipitate the lead out of solution but it’s best to not use this cleaning method.

[bpatterson84]

It can also be sold just like any other can, with the same restrictions and rules. You paid the making tax and it's all legal and not classified any differently than a can you bought from a dealer or manufacturer. A number of the transferable machine guns in the registry were made on form 1's.


To pick a nit, it only needs to transfer to heirs in a form 5 if the form 1 was submitted as an individual which is not necessary. Form 1’s with a trust are being approved in just a lil over a month before this covid stuff, so not much difference, then it would transfer as the rest of the trust would, seamlessly with no need for a form 5.

To pick another nit, manufacture of items for sale under the purview of the NFA 34 and GCA ‘68 without a FFL 07/02 SOT manufacturing license could be construed as dealing without a license and a federal crime. Yes, you can transfer it, but that’s pretty dumb as there would be an additional tax stamp placed on it and I haven’t seen any form 1 cans worth that. I’d make sure it’s not new and I don’t think I’d sell another one for a while. Don’t make items to sell or appear that way. For ALL legal advise, consult an NFA lawyer, not a lead bullet forum.

[NoZombies]

To pick a nit, it only needs to transfer to heirs in a form 5 if the form 1 was submitted as an individual which is not necessary. Form 1’s with a trust are being approved in just a lil over a month before this covid stuff, so not much difference, then it would transfer as the rest of the trust would, seamlessly with no need for a form 5.

To pick another nit, manufacture of items for sale under the purview of the NFA 34 and GCA ‘68 without a FFL 07/02 SOT manufacturing license could be construed as dealing without a license and a federal crime. Yes, you can transfer it, but that’s pretty dumb as there would be an additional tax stamp placed on it and I haven’t seen any form 1 cans worth that. I’d make sure it’s not new and I don’t think I’d sell another one for a while. Don’t make items to sell or appear that way. For ALL legal advise, consult an NFA lawyer, not a lead bullet forum.

My point was that a form 1 can is legally transferable through all of the same legal methods that one made by any 07/02 can be.

As for the manufacturing thing, the feds have said that as long as the tax is paid, they don't care. Buying and selling non-NFA guns they are far more concerned with. As far as NFA stuff goes, as long as all of the legal hoops are jumped through, it doesn't matter. It would be a terrible business model, but the feds wouldn't mess with you as long as your stuff is in order. But I do agree, legal advice from a forum should be followed by due diligence and a discussion with a real lawyer before proceeding.

[root]

Here is a 2 stage Sionics can I shoot nothing but lead through with a Powder springs Ingram M-10 45 ACP
Mine is on the right I bought this can NIB and this was the 1st time it was ever apart.

Over 5000 rounds before I stopped doing the round count.

https://i.ibb.co/yddNW8J/DSCF0068.jpg (https://ibb.co/9ccpsqj)

The one on the left is a SWD 45 ACP two stage that had nothing but FMJ through it.

Note the one on the left is a touch cleaner also has a very low round count.

PC bullets leave a lot of crud behind and build up that straight lead and lube don't or FMJ bullets.

I have 5 other cans two Octanes and a Spectre along with a F1 30 cal SS can.

All my cans are take apart and all my cans are full auto rated. All but the Sionics is SS.

See a pattern?

The one thing I refuse to shoot is the PC bullets due to the flame cutting that causes cans to load up premature with crud on the blast baffle.

And yes I use the "dip" to clean all my cans but the Sionics since it is Aluminum baffles. I just take the jar to work and stick in in the hazmat & chem disposal room for the Biohazard guys to remove.

Happy shooting and be safe or in this case hearing safe.

[303Guy]

https://i.postimg.cc/gjk5VNcj/DSCF0068.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Good heavens. So many parts! Ok, one of those parts is a disassembly tool but even so.

I need to build my test suppressor, which is intended to evaluate different baffle designs for effectiveness. Considering what I'm reading here I think I'll build it with throw away internals.

[root]

303guy

Those are old two stage cans for mac 10 45 acp sub machine guns.

Or more properly machine pistols.

I also have 3 swr cans a 22 9mm and 45 acp and a f1 stainless can.

Those old sionics cans are meant for very high volume fates of fire thats why they are so big.

Also while older tech they do have superb sound reduction.

The swr and my f1 xan do not have near the stuff the old sionics do.

What is in the pix is just the 2nd stage guts and both are missing the wipes in the pic.

There are more parts in the 1st stage.

Another thing, the 2nd stage baffels are spirals pretty much a 4 tpi per inch cut with a wide parting blade.

Me and the owner of of the can on the left think they just made long runs on the lathe then parted them to length.

No modern can has the sionics tech.

I bought that can NIB to match my M10 since they were always meant to be paired up and its a real joy to shoot in the OEM setup or with Lage or Flemming upper and other cans.

Rich

[NoZombies]

My sionics can came with a wipeless end cap when I bought it, but otherwise very clean and obviously not used much.

Interesting the different experiences folks have. I found that lubed lead bullets left more hardened caked crap by a fair margin than PC'd bullets for the same number of rounds.

[JimB..]

This is the “the dip” and really shouldn’t be used. There is no way to properly dispose of it after use. It’s works extremely well but is highly toxic. Lead acetate is not something you want to touch. Technically you can precipitate the lead out of solution but it’s best to not use this cleaning method.

You can precipitated the lead, but there are other metals that are more difficult to deal with, so making it safe in this manner is not trivial. However, the solution can be allowed to evaporate and the metallic compounds will not evaporate, so you’ll be left with a dried layer of carbon, lead, antimony, silver, and a few other things. It can then be safely disposed of with your solid waste. I use an old skillet for this, sometimes heating it on the side burner of the grill in the back yard to speed things up so animals don’t get into the toxic solution, and will one day just toss it in the recycling bin.

[dragon813gt]

I brought up not using it because most people aren’t going to go through the trouble to make it inert. They’re going to dump it down the drain or worse yet keep it around in an unlabeled container. It’s highly toxic which everyone needs to be aware of.

[dk17hmr]

Just get a Liberty Cosmic. Easy to take apart and they sound great. I don't know how many cast bullets I have shot through mine but it's alot. Rated for some pretty big rounds also.

[6pt-sika]

I’ve never done much suppressor stuff with handguns I have however done quite a bit with 30 cals both sonic and sub sonic . And I tried a bunch of 200-220 grain cast for sub sonic applications . In all the testing for both cast and jacketed I used the same Yankee Hill suppressor that wasn’t takedown . Never really needed cleaning after about 500 shots . But when we did a half hour in the sonic cleaner and it was good . Oh yeah I’m not an advocate of powder coat bullets so none of those were used .