Steel/aluminum cases

[Land Owner]

My boys are pretty good about picking up the range after they take friends shooting. They bring me the scrap brass.

Several hundred of the 45 ACP range pickup cases are steel/aluminum (idk which - but will check with a magnet [STEEL confirmed]). Is it worth the time to reload these cases? Are they "as good" as their brass brethren?

[Idz]

Most of the aluminum is marked NR for non-reloadable. They use non-standard primers. Some have reloaded steel cases but its hard on reloading dies and presses. A lot of the steel has Berdan primers which complicates things further.

[tazman]

I have had issues with aluminum cases not holding bullets firmly enough with factory loaded ammunition(Federal). The bullets would seat themselves deeper into the case when they hit the feeding ramp.
I can't think they would work any better with reloads.

[DonMountain]

No! With brass cases so cheap, why would you want to complicate things like that?

[Land Owner]

Steel confirmed...and I agree with all assessments. I already have several thousand (maybe 4 or 5) brass 45 ACP cases. I will NOT be messing with these steel cases further.

Thank you all for replying.

[Idz]

Here is a comment from:https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/219557-cci-blaser-aluminum-cases/


The primary reason not to reuse the aluminum cases has to do with corrosion. From the factory they have several coatings applied to the aluminum. Some are for lubricity, while others are to guard against corrosion.

When you resize the cases, the sizing action scrapes away the coatings, exposing the base aluminum. Aluminum does not corrode the way brass doe. While verdigris is a surface condition for brass, aluminum corrosion forms pits into the case wall. Depending on how bad, depends on how deep. You the human eye the corrosion pit merely seems to be a black dot. A small black dot.

Should the case rupture because of the corrosion, you have a jet of high pressure, hot gases that will erode the chamber, or breech of the gun. Since we don't know how bad (deep) the corrosion is by looking at it, we don't know when the case will rupture.

Part of my job at CCI-Speer included dealing with any customer problems. I had quite a collection of damaged guns ion my office - for a variety of causes. One of the first things I looked at if we could get (Blazer) ammunition back that had been involved in a problem was if the cases were corroded or not. Split aluminum cases that have a jagged, lightning bolt sort of pattern indicates the crack was due to corrosion - the crack is connecting the dots - the corrosion pits. A straight crack was normally due to a scratch or other mechanical damage to the casing.

Also, since reloading dies are designed for brass cases, the resizing action may not be "correct" for the aluminum (or steel, for that matter). There is a degree of springback after sizing that the reloading dies are designed for - for brass. The springback for aluminum of steel may be different (I haven't researched that). Some have mentioned problems with neck tension, and that's a definite possibility. Too tight may be be a real problem, but too loose can allow bullet setback. And we know that is bad since it increased pressure upon firing..

There's also the matter of internal volume. The factory develops the loadbased on the cartridge and the powder/bullet. The reloading date we have is all developed using brass cases. The internal volume of aluminum cases may be significantly different, so our loading results may vary greatly from what we expect.

Those are the main reasons. I personally feel ATK's economy move was a mistake, but they didn't ask me. I'm also not going to reload aluminum or steel cases.

Be careful!

Guy

[poppy42]

Here is a comment from:https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/219557-cci-blaser-aluminum-cases/


The primary reason not to reuse the aluminum cases has to do with corrosion. From the factory they have several coatings applied to the aluminum. Some are for lubricity, while others are to guard against corrosion.

When you resize the cases, the sizing action scrapes away the coatings, exposing the base aluminum. Aluminum does not corrode the way brass doe. While verdigris is a surface condition for brass, aluminum corrosion forms pits into the case wall. Depending on how bad, depends on how deep. You the human eye the corrosion pit merely seems to be a black dot. A small black dot.

Should the case rupture because of the corrosion, you have a jet of high pressure, hot gases that will erode the chamber, or breech of the gun. Since we don't know how bad (deep) the corrosion is by looking at it, we don't know when the case will rupture.

Part of my job at CCI-Speer included dealing with any customer problems. I had quite a collection of damaged guns ion my office - for a variety of causes. One of the first things I looked at if we could get (Blazer) ammunition back that had been involved in a problem was if the cases were corroded or not. Split aluminum cases that have a jagged, lightning bolt sort of pattern indicates the crack was due to corrosion - the crack is connecting the dots - the corrosion pits. A straight crack was normally due to a scratch or other mechanical damage to the casing.

Also, since reloading dies are designed for brass cases, the resizing action may not be "correct" for the aluminum (or steel, for that matter). There is a degree of springback after sizing that the reloading dies are designed for - for brass. The springback for aluminum of steel may be different (I haven't researched that). Some have mentioned problems with neck tension, and that's a definite possibility. Too tight may be be a real problem, but too loose can allow bullet setback. And we know that is bad since it increased pressure upon firing..

There's also the matter of internal volume. The factory develops the loadbased on the cartridge and the powder/bullet. The reloading date we have is all developed using brass cases. The internal volume of aluminum cases may be significantly different, so our loading results may vary greatly from what we expect.

Those are the main reasons. I personally feel ATK's economy move was a mistake, but they didn't ask me. I'm also not going to reload aluminum or steel

Guy

Thank you for the explanation it was very informative

[fredj338]

You can reload steel cases that are boxer primed, but IMO, not worth it. They do take considerable more force to resize not as ductile so you get less reloads. Alum is a disaster. I would only load them if it was all I could find, like apocalypse. Zero ductility, so neck tension is all over the place with just one reload. Stick to brass cases.

[Eddie17]

I’ve reloaded 9mm Al cases to use as throw away, over this winter. Loaded an shot maybe 500 or more, no problems. I SS pin cleaned them with Armor all wash an Wax only. They come out looking like nickel plated when done. Again I use these as throw away cases only!

[ioon44]

I have reloaded both steel and alum just to see how it would work, didn't have any problems, chronograph was not much different than brass cases with the same load.
I have lots of brass so I don't need or want to use steel or alum on a regular basis.

[gwpercle]

With low pressure 45 acp cases the steel ones work well . Or at least the zinc plated steel 45 acp cases from WWII . I had a large box of them , military surplus , and reloaded them many times .
The low pressure 45 acp didn't require as much re-sizing because they didn't get blown out as do rifle cases . I never had any problems with them ... they don't last as long as brass , the case will get a neck crack or little slit running up and down... but steel isn't as elastic as brass so it's to be expected . I might have a few in the shop...I need to check the head stamp and see where they came from .
My thought was during WWII the steel cases came out to save the needed brass for other things .
Gary

[mdi]

No! With brass cases so cheap, why would you want to complicate things like that?

Panic buying has really hit the reloading component supplies hard. a lot of components are "out of stock" (I just got a new gun and for 2 months I have not been able to get any bullets; FMJ, JHP,or cast and I found only one supplier for brass (other than new brass in 500-1,000 count bags and I may come down to buying 32 ACP brass in bulk).

I have seen some aluminum 45 ACP cases Boxer primed, but that was several years ago. As mentioned above the aluminum hasn't much elasticity (correct term?). If you squeeze a bullet into a brass case the brass will swell and grip the bullet. where an aluminum case tends to swell and not try to return to original size and not grip bullets tight enough (I hope I explained that OK, I've only had 1/2 cup of coffee so far). Aluminum isn't as malleable as brass and repeated sizing, shooting, resizing makes for a very short case life and the ones I tried died after one or two trips through the dies. Even though the steel used for cases is pretty soft, it too suffers from the problems as the aluminum, but perhaps with a few more reloadings for the case life. Unless one is 9 years into a SHTF situation, it isn't worth reloading anything except brass...

[megasupermagnum]

I'm not even convinced aluminum is safe the first time, no way I'd even think about reloading them. Steel on the other hand, I have reloaded, 44 magnum to be exact. It worked, but proved to be a fruitless endeavor. They are not as good as brass.

[scattershot]

No experience with steel, but I have reloaded aluminum just to see what would happen. Currently, I’m on my fourth load with these cases, (boxer primed, BTW) with no issues. I wouldn’t hesitate to reload them in a pinch, but this is an experiment, and I much prefer brass. These are .45 ACP,for the record.

[mvintx]

I've reloaded Wolf .40 S&W and .223. Both are boxer primed. I did not find it was any more trouble than loading brass and the loaded rounds shoot pretty much the same as my brass-cased ammo. I especially like running the steel cased .223 through my HK53 clone as it beats up the cases pretty badly, not to mention it throws them into the next county and I lose a lot of them. Why do I bother loading steel cases when brass is so plentiful? Because I can and who knows what the future holds.

[sutherpride59]

Keep in mind land-owner that there are some nickel plated brass casings that can be reloaded because they are just brass so don’t trash those ones! Also are you still in or are you retired? I just left the CG last year for college.

[Land Owner]

Retired - after a 36 year career as a Professional Engineer, following Vietnam-era service in the Guard (4 active, 2 inactive years). Used my GI benefits to finish college (3 years). Graduated engineering college just after my benefits ran out. Had a half dozen student loans to repay, which I did and have stamped, PAID IN FULL, original Promissory Notes to prove it. My years in the Guard are a continual source of personal pride in knowing the Guard (any service for that matter) gave me the opportunity to GROW UP and learn to be responsible in order to survive in this world.


Back to cases:
If it sticks to a magnet, its history. I did find one chrome case that looked like dirty brass. How its luster got so dull is a mystery. I will keep tumbling it until the luster returns or I load and shoot it like any other brass case.

[yeahbub]

When the boxer primed Blazer cases came out, I reloaded them for a bit to get an idea of how they would act. As an endurance test, a handful of .45 acp were reloaded with a 200gr cast boolits repeatedly until the 6th loading, by which time they were looking pretty tired and my curiosity was satisfied. The rims in particular were beat up with extractor nicks and dings. I don't recall any cracked necks, but they couldn't be far from it. Bullet tension was not problematic, but this whole test took place in one day. It's entirely possible that work hardening from repeated reloading's would also cause age cracking over time. I consider them usable as throw-aways when out for a wood walk, but brass cases were the design standard and have shown their reliability/functionality. The .45 acp is a low pressure cartridge and published load data worked well enough, but I never pushed the limits. In the boxer 9mm cases, firing the Lee 105gr SWC, I found that mid-range pressures were all you could ask of them. I used starting loads or slightly less because, on inspection, it could be seen that the cases had less internal volume that most brass cases. Even then, loose primer pockets will develop and case head diameter will expand. The aluminum is fairly soft and the pounding it gets from firing will cause it to flow ever so slightly. These too are single use throw-aways limited to middle of the road pressures. There were no catastrophic failures.

Steel cases behaved more like brass in their internal volume and resistance to abuse. Neck tension was never in question. They are harder to work, but using case lube and sizing them in carbide dies greatly reduced the force necessary to size them. When Wolf commercial .45 acp first came into the country, they were boxer primed, as was Wolf commercial .223. I haven't checked lately, but this may have changed. The Silver/Golden/Brown Bear ammo produced by Barnaul in Russia has always been berdan primed to my knowledge. Steel cases, like aluminum have less "spring" to them that brass, hence, they don't shrink back from the chamber wall as much as brass, or back up from the sizing op either. IIRC, a leaded steel alloy is used to be able to draw and shape cases with a low rejection rate, but because it's leaded, it will never be springy like brass. Bare steel also doesn't have that characteristic lubricity that brass has. I read that GI's would keep the steel-cased ammo in reserve and load their 1911's with brass when they could get it, for feed reliability. The Wolf polymer-coated cases I tried seem to have no problem with feed reliability in the short course of my exploration, and they had no problem with strength either. Their working life seemed about like brass. I use these for walk-abouts also. I don't mind losing them.

One thing I noticed about reloading steel rifle cases is that very good accuracy seemed tough to achieve. Case neck thickness variation seemed about like brass cases, but reliably getting small groups was a challenge I never quite managed. Hunting accuracy? No problem. Winning matches? Nope. Other than weighing them and measuring neck thickness, I didn't really pursue the issue. Probably a combination of things.

[fcvan]

Although I don't mess with steel or aluminum much, I have reloaded both. Cases get cleaned the same way which includes tumbling in ground walnut with turtle zip wash in the tumbler. It leaves a thin coating of wax which inhibits corrosion and with brass oxidization. Brass stays shiny like new.

The only reason I have reloaded steel or aluminum is for when I am shooting somewhere that brass recovery is difficult. I always have some throw away loads even though I have more brass than should be necessary. Still, I hate to lose real brass. Steel 9mm in my AR Carbine shoots just fine. The AR is my favorite plinker, the Marlin Camp Carbine is a close second.

[waco]

No! With brass cases so cheap, why would you want to complicate things like that?

This....

[Texas Jack 56]

With low pressure 45 acp cases the steel ones work well . Or at least the zinc plated steel 45 acp cases from WWII . I had a large box of them , military surplus , and reloaded them many times .
The low pressure 45 acp didn't require as much re-sizing because they didn't get blown out as do rifle cases . I never had any problems with them ... they don't last as long as brass , the case will get a neck crack or little slit running up and down... but steel isn't as elastic as brass so it's to be expected . I might have a few in the shop...I need to check the head stamp and see where they came from .
My thought was during WWII the steel cases came out to save the needed brass for other things .
Gary

I started reloading in the early 70's. First pistol was a well worn 1911 Springfield. I would buy surplus GI WWII 45 ammo for it. Saving the cases [always planed to reload]. I reloaded those cases for years, never sorted them from brass ones. I stumble across one ever so often when I am shooting. Now after firing I have been saving them more as a curiosity than anything.

[fredj338]

No experience with steel, but I have reloaded aluminum just to see what would happen. Currently, I’m on my fourth load with these cases, (boxer primed, BTW) with no issues. I wouldn’t hesitate to reload them in a pinch, but this is an experiment, and I much prefer brass. These are .45 ACP,for the record.

I reloaded my normal brass cased load into alum cases. The vel spread was all over the place, like 90-100fps +/-. I can imagine it would only get worse with each add'l reload. There is just no point unless all I could get was alum cases imo.

[fredj338]

I've reloaded Wolf .40 S&W and .223. Both are boxer primed. I did not find it was any more trouble than loading brass and the loaded rounds shoot pretty much the same as my brass-cased ammo. I especially like running the steel cased .223 through my HK53 clone as it beats up the cases pretty badly, not to mention it throws them into the next county and I lose a lot of them. Why do I bother loading steel cases when brass is so plentiful? Because I can and who knows what the future holds.
In my only attempt to reload steel cases for my AR, couldn't get them sized down enough to chamber. SO steel cases for my 223.

[jonp]

I tried reloading a few steel cases just to see if it worked and it did but I wouldn't make a habit of it unless brass was very hard to come by