Hard lift and dropped case

[Pirate69]

First the story.

Back in the early "70s, my college chemistry professor and I became friends with an elderly gunsmith that was 95% retired. He offered to help us build a couple of rifles. He stated, "I am going to teach you the correct way of doing it and then you can do the next ones the "new fangled" ways if you want to. It was a very rewarding relationship and he opened his shop to us to work anytime that we could come by. He still had some Douglas barrels and I built a 270 Winchester. My professor friend chose a 6mm Remington barrel and it was installed on a Mauser action. As we progressed through the projects, he decided he wanted a 25-06 as well and started another projected and completed it. He never completed the 6mm Remington project. I was recently gifted with the unfinished project, including the walnut semi-inletted stock.

I had a Hogue Mauser stock and put the unfired barrel action in it and mounted a scope. Loaded so rounds and the first 5- shot group at 100 yards was a 1-incher. Four rounds touching and one semi-flyer. I think this is going to be a keeper.

But I do have some issues. While it feeds like a charm, it drops a loose case during extraction. Easy to remove with a finger but not what I want. The rim diameter of the 6mm is 0.473" and the rim diameter of the 8mm Mauser is 0.470". I do not see the extractor lip being an issue since the 6mm diameter is greater than the 8mm Mauser. The rim thickness of the 6mm is 0.045" and the rim thickness of the 8mm Mauser is 0.051. Is the 0.006" difference enough to cause the dropping of the 6mm case upon extraction? I hope I do not have to replace the extractor since the bolt and extractor have already been jeweled.

Second issue. I am getting a hard extraction with both reloads and commercial rounds. After firing a round, the lift from full battery to 90 degrees is easy. Any lift above 90 degrees is difficult. Can not be lifted with normal pressure but can be lifted with a slapping of the hand. Does this indicate a set-back of the action? Any chance this is just a rough chamber or maybe some corrosion in the chamber due to the act of the unfired barrel?

Before i do anything, I want to tap into the brain trust of this site. Any comments/advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[indian joe]

First the story.

Back in the early "70s, my college chemistry professor and I became friends with an elderly gunsmith that was 95% retired. He offered to help us build a couple of rifles. He stated, "I am going to teach you the correct way of doing it and then you can do the next ones the "new fangled" ways if you want to. It was a very rewarding relationship and he opened his shop to us to work anytime that we could come by. He still had some Douglas barrels and I built a 270 Winchester. My professor friend chose a 6mm Remington barrel and it was installed on a Mauser action. As we progressed through the projects, he decided he wanted a 25-06 as well and started another projected and completed it. He never completed the 6mm Remington project. I was recently gifted with the unfinished project, including the walnut semi-inletted stock.

I had a Hogue Mauser stock and put the unfired barrel action in it and mounted a scope. Loaded so rounds and the first 5- shot group at 100 yards was a 1-incher. Four rounds touching and one semi-flyer. I think this is going to be a keeper.

But I do have some issues. While it feeds like a charm, it drops a loose case during extraction. Easy to remove with a finger but not what I want. The rim diameter of the 6mm is 0.473" and the rim diameter of the 8mm Mauser is 0.470". I do not see the extractor lip being an issue since the 6mm diameter is greater than the 8mm Mauser. The rim thickness of the 6mm is 0.045" and the rim thickness of the 8mm Mauser is 0.051. Is the 0.006" difference enough to cause the dropping of the 6mm case upon extraction? I hope I do not have to replace the extractor since the bolt and extractor have already been jeweled.

Second issue. I am getting a hard extraction with both reloads and commercial rounds. After firing a round, the lift from full battery to 90 degrees is easy. Any lift above 90 degrees is difficult. Can not be lifted with normal pressure but can be lifted with a slapping of the hand. Does this indicate a set-back of the action? Any chance this is just a rough chamber or maybe some corrosion in the chamber due to the act of the unfired barrel?

Before i do anything, I want to tap into the brain trust of this site. Any comments/advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Drive it like ya stole it! if its dropping extracted cases in the open action - yank that bolt handle back like your life depends on it - might not fix the problem but has fixed numerous similar problems -

[pietro]

I had a Hogue Mauser stock and put the unfired barrel action in it and mounted a scope.

But I do have some issues.

While it feeds like a charm, it drops a loose case during extraction.

Second issue.
I am getting a hard extraction with both reloads and commercial rounds.
After firing a round, the lift from full battery to 90 degrees is easy. Any lift above 90 degrees is difficult.




I would suggest three things:

#1) As stated above, you may be operating the bolt too slowly - operate the bolt like it owes you money.

#2-A) I would remove/unscrew the cocking piece/firing pin assembly from the bolt body and inspect the surfaces of both the cam (ramp) machined into the rear end of the bolt body and the opposite surface at the front of the lower section of the cocking piece.

The inspection might reveal an imperfection in either or both surfaces that would be causing the hard bolt lift issue.

#2-B) I would remove the scope mount base screws from the front scope base and operate the bolt - if the issue disappears, it indicates that one or both scope mount base screws are just a tad too long enough to interfere with the passage of the bolt's right locking lug (check that lug's outer surface for a scrape mark).




.

[waksupi]

Most malfunctions of a Mauser action can be cured by treating it like a jack hammer. More power to the stroke! They weren't designed to be babied.

[pietro]

Most malfunctions of a Mauser action can be cured by treating it like a jack hammer. More power to the stroke! They weren't designed to be babied.

Yep - they were designed for operation by excited soldiers engaged in furious repeat/rapid fire battles/situations.


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[Tokarev]

Is the extractor spring weak? Is the extractor worn?

[Pirate69]

I would suggest three things:

#1) As stated above, you may be operating the bolt too slowly - operate the bolt like it owes you money.

#2-A) I would remove/unscrew the cocking piece/firing pin assembly from the bolt body and inspect the surfaces of both the cam (ramp) machined into the rear end of the bolt body and the opposite surface at the front of the lower section of the cocking piece.

The inspection might reveal an imperfection in either or both surfaces that would be causing the hard bolt lift issue.

#2-B) I would remove the scope mount base screws from the front scope base and operate the bolt - if the issue disappears, it indicates that one or both scope mount base screws are just a tad too long enough to interfere with the passage of the bolt's right locking lug (check that lug's outer surface for a scrape mark).




.

#2-A Now I feel like a dummy. I actually had this problem on an action before. My experience did not come back to me. There is a very good chance that this is the cause of of the hard lift. Will verify.

Will also check 2A. Think I am working bolt hard enough but, again, will verify.

Thanks for the advice.

[Pirate69]

Is the extractor spring weak? Is the extractor worn?

I think these are ok but will be looking more closely. Thanks for the advice.

[Pirate69]

Drive it like ya stole it! if its dropping extracted cases in the open action - yank that bolt handle back like your life depends on it - might not fix the problem but has fixed numerous similar problems -

Thanks. Will see if that is the problem.

[John Taylor]

The extractor should holt the cartridge firm enough to keep it from falling from the bolt, even when the bolt is out of the action. Sometimes the extractor can be tightened up by removing a bit of metal from the part that rides in the groove on the bolt body.
On the bolt opening, could it be that the brass is hanging up in the chamber and the bolt stops when it hit the cam for extraction? If it is a screw that is too deep it should effect it every time the bolt is opened. A barreled action that has been sitting for years can get a bit of rust in the chamber causing extraction problems.

[pietro]

#2-A Now I feel like a dummy. I actually had this problem on an action before. My experience did not come back to me.

Thanks for the advice.


You're no dummy - you just forgot (like I do myself).

Don't beat yourself up over it - just look at every possible solution from myself & others here.

I hope you get GTG asap...….. :)


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[Pirate69]

Checked the front scope mount screw. Not the problem. Bolt works freely without a case in the chamber. Put a fired or unfired case in the chamber and the problem shows up. The tight spot starts about 30 degees after starting to close the bolt. Stop the closing and starting to reopen the bolt and you get a little popping release as the tension breaks. Work the bolt back and forth and it pops every time. Almost like it is hanging up on something and then breaks free.

After playing with it as much as I have, it seems a little easier to get by the hard spot. In the past, had to hit it hard with the palm of my hand. Now can lift it with just increased pressure; other times a little slap. May be something in the chamber or a rough spot somewhere that i am wearing down. Will try to look at the chamber with a bore scope tomorrow.

[roadie]

Checked the front scope mount screw. Not the problem. Bolt works freely without a case in the chamber. Put a fired or unfired case in the chamber and the problem shows up. The tight spot starts about 30 degees after starting to close the bolt. Stop the closing and starting to reopen the bolt and you get a little popping release as the tension breaks. Work the bolt back and forth and it pops every time. Almost like it is hanging up on something and then breaks free.

After playing with it as much as I have, it seems a little easier to get by the hard spot. In the past, had to hit it hard with the palm of my hand. Now can lift it with just increased pressure; other times a little slap. May be something in the chamber or a rough spot somewhere that i am wearing down. Will try to look at the chamber with a bore scope tomorrow.


I'd paint the bolt with layout fluid, Dykem, something like that.....maybe even a Sharpie, then work the bolt. Something has to show where it's catching. Once you isolate the area, you can figure out what's going on.

Does it hang up with factory ammo?

[John Taylor]

polish the chamber and try again.

[Pirate69]

I did the blackening of a fired case yesterday. Saw an area of uniform wear about 3/8" above the case head. It may be a rough area in the chamber. Will see if I can polish it.

[Gtek]

Tight headspace and lug set back?

[Cap'n Morgan]

If a factory load will chamber without problems, but still stick when fired, it could be that the leade is too short and the bullet is in contact with the lands. This can increase pressure several thousand psi (QuikLoad says 6000 psi) certainly enough to give you a sticky bolt lift.