Questions on casting for the marlin 336 in 35 Remington

[Tripplebeards]

I finally got around to loading my third rifle for cast boolits today. Its my marlin 336 chambered in 35 Remington. I used a fired case and candled a cast lee 200 grain lee boolit to check my max aol length. I checked it 11 times since the cast boolit fit tight in my case and kept getting stuck in the chamber. The lowest reading i received was 2.353". I the last 7 readings were from 2.358" down to 2.353". I loaded up three dummy rounds at 2.350"and cycled them perfectly through my gun. I did notice that i could barely see the micro groove land marks on all my boolits. So i made more dummy rounds all the way down to way to 2.320" and still could see the micro groove lands marks on my boolits after test cycling them. I made the executive decision to load them at 3.350". Is this common to see the micro groove land marks even loaded as short as i did? I don't want to create pressure spikes. The other issue i had was the rcbs seater die cut rings in my boolits when seating them. Is there a pistol die flat base seater i can switch out my die with?

[RickinTN]

Seeing the rifling on your chambered bullets is a good thing as long as they aren't so deep that the bullet stays in the bore. Some would refer to this as "Kissing" the rifling. There are big kisses and small kisses however. If they extracted intact you are probably good to go.
Good Luck,
Rick

[Tripplebeards]

They extracted just fine. I cycled some of the finished loaded rounds a few minutes ago flawlessly. The seater die that cut a ring around the boolits during the seating process bugs me. It’s a pretty deep ring so I’m sure it will affect my groups. The rifling marks were very light indentations and measured approx .05” long.

[Tripplebeards]

Heres the ring I’m referring to...

https://i.imgur.com/uaHJlZF.jpg


I flaired my cases pretty good with a lee universal case expanded before seating. I could still feel a little “click” when the GC started to seat past the flair like they catch a little. I even over flaired a case and still felt it do so.

[Texas by God]

You can put candle wax in the cup of the seating stem for a tempory fix to stop that ring. But in my experience that ring doesn't affect accuracy, it's just unsightly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[high standard 40]

Heres the ring I’m referring to...

https://i.imgur.com/uaHJlZF.jpg


I flaired my cases pretty good with a lee universal case expanded before seating. I could still feel a little “click” when the GC started to seat past the flair like they catch a little. I even over flaired a case and still felt it do so.

I have a possible explanation for the "click" you are hearing. At the same time the gas check is entering the case mouth, the case mouth is also entering the portion of the die that supports the case neck and aligns the case mouth with the crimping ring in the die. The tolerance between the case neck and the die at this point is close. You are likely hearing the flared case mouth being slightly sized down as it enters this tight fitting area of the die. The more you flare, the more this click will present itself.

[high standard 40]

You can put candle wax in the cup of the seating stem for a tempory fix to stop that ring. But in my experience that ring doesn't affect accuracy, it's just unsightly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Another solution that I have used before. I used a Dremel tool to lightly radius the outer edge of the seater plug recess so that it has less of a sharp edge. Don't over do it, just relieve that sharp edge. It solved that issue for me, anyway.

[wizard93]

Heres the ring I’m referring to...

https://i.imgur.com/uaHJlZF.jpg


I flaired my cases pretty good with a lee universal case expanded before seating. I could still feel a little “click” when the GC started to seat past the flair like they catch a little. I even over flaired a case and still felt it do so.

Are you seating the bullets and crimping in the same operation? I used to have similar problems until I separated the bullet seating and the crimping into two operations. The seater is trying to push the bullet into the case when it is crimped. This puts extra pressure between the seater and the bullet. If the bullet is seated to length and then the mouth of the case is crimped, then the stress is taken off of the bullet.

[Tripplebeards]

I crimp with the lee factory crimp collet die afterwards. I might get another seater plug and fill it with epoxy or JB weld and sand it flat if one of my pistol seater plugs won’t fit.

[RickinTN]

The underlying issue causing the ring when bullets are seated is too much neck tension. The Lee expander die does put a flair on the mouth of the case but it does nothing to expand or open the case neck like the RCBS or Lyman tool do. It's too hard to push the bullet into the neck and thus the rings on your bullet noses. Modifying the seater stem can help but it's just masking the underlying issue. I find it best to try to accomplish about .001" neck tension with my cast loads. This much tension is easy on the bullet.
Good luck,
Rick

[Barr]

I have that same ring on my .30 Carbine bullets from my Lyman top plug in my Lubrisizer not being a perfect fit. Never impacted accuracy to any significant degree for my light carbine under 50 yards.

Would it make a difference on a 100 yard benchrest group? Maybe?

[stubert]

Have you tried a flat top punch? It might work fine.

[Tripplebeards]

I will give rcbs a call this morning and see if they have a flat top punch, what I referred to as a flat top seater die. I’m worried that long range accuracy might be affected as these were loaded up to try for 100 yard bench shooting for accuracy groups. If I have a promising load I’ll retest it when I get the ring issue eliminated.

[Tripplebeards]

RCBS is sending me a 38 pistol flat punch top seater insert to try at no charge as usual. I love RCBS! They said it was.355”. I will post the results when I receive it. It should work for my whelen set as well.

[earlmck]

A quirk of the 35 Remington chamber design is that it has virtually no "throat", and boolits designed for it (like your Lee 200 grainer) have a bore diameter nose. So if the mold is correct you will have those land marks in the PC all the way along it. I just checked my reloading notes and see that for my Marlin the COAL I've been using is 2.42" which just almost touches the first driving band to the beginning of the lands.

[dondiego]

Try not crimping at all or a whole lot less crimp.

[Tripplebeards]

I have to say I was pretty excited when I loaded up my dummy rounds yesterday and they fed perfectly first time through at the AOL I picked. I haven’t tried loading cast for a new gun since both 450BM ruger American scouts that would both jam every other round. Life can’t be that hard...I blame it on both gun/caliber combos. No issues with my Ruger 77/44 right off the bat either. Once I find a tight grouping load my whelen pumper is next. I’m sticking with my crimp style. I found out with the lee collect style crimp in my 77/44 that my groups went from 4 inches at 100 yards to shooting sub MOA with two different loads. In my opinion consistent neck pressures tighten groups with cast in my short time of accuracy testing.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

F. W. Mann - The Bullet's Flight - covers the effects of nose distortion and base distortion of bullets, very old but still good information, on Amazon. Bad base - bad accuracy, distorted nose - not nearly as significant.

[Wally44]

Love that green smokes powder coat I'm using that myself

[Tripplebeards]

The 38 cal pistol seater showed today from RCBS. I started flattening the lip with 100 grit sandpaper. It was the only grit I had where I’m currently at. I worked it in circles and rotated it around trying to keep nice and even. It took me about an hour. I will finish it up with some 400 grit and polish it with a dremyl In The morning so the face is as smooth as glass. I remember doing this in my 44 mag seater die for seating 300 grain wide metplate lee cast boolits a few years back and remembered if I don’t polish out the Circles in the middle Of the face of the seater die the impressions will show on the boolit.


https://i.imgur.com/wovFE4v.jpg


Starting to flatten out...

https://i.imgur.com/ir5REHl.jpg


Flat but still showing ring marks...

https://i.imgur.com/wMcoPVn.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DXbRTKT.jpg


As the old commercial from the 70’s says...no more ring around the collar! We will find out after I polish the face and seat a few.

[RickinTN]

Good job on the seating stem. Because I, and everyone else I suppose, have been looking at your bullets in the loaded round pictures I failed to see the split case in the pictures, at least that is what it looks like. Left hand casing in the picture with the three loaded rounds.
Rick

[Tripplebeards]

That’s a superficial ejection scratch on the neck. There must be a burr somewhere inside the action. It won’t Scratch like that of I keep tension the round with my finger when ejecting it. I found this out when checking boolit OAL. You can see the other long scratch it made along the left case as well as the neck on the one in the middle.

These are dummy rounds...but I’ll pull out the magnifying glass just to double check the three dummy cases. I’ve never annealed any of my 35 Rem cases and they are 15 years old so I wouldn’t surprise me. I’m in the need for some replacement 35 Rem brass.

I already pulled those boolits, along with the GC’s that stayed in the cases, and resized them. I’ll anneal them before loading up. I hate to anneal them after sizing because the case necks get pretty soft when seating boolits. Probably just me, but I at least feel that the FLS process after annealing helps to start stiffing up the cases.

[gwpercle]

You can custom fit nose punches with epoxy putty or just fill the nose cavity with epoxy putty , let cure and sand flat. No need to do all the metal working with JB Weld Epoxy Putty around .
Much easier to work with .

[Tripplebeards]

I fished it off with 150 grit sandpaper till the rings were gone. Then I smoothed it out with 400 grit...

https://i.imgur.com/tIYkwDW.jpg

I had some left over Brownell’s oxpho blue laying around so I put a few coats on it...

https://i.imgur.com/aY9285Q.jpg


I loaded up a few cases. As you can see it worked perfect. I did anneal the cases as well so the boolits didn’t seat as hard this time time around. I must have annealed one of the cases a little to much as it dented and crumpled when I chamfered and deburred it after trimming. My case necks look a little chewed up from my rcbs chamfer & demurring tool. I could feel it grabbing pretty hard like it was snagging the case back instead of cleaning off the left over burrs from trimming. I have a new one on the way from rcbs.

https://i.imgur.com/X0QtuA5.jpg

[relic]

I have two 35s. One 1951 ballard rifled, and a 1968 micro groove. I cast a 200gr RCBS gas check design boolit. The micro groove likes .359 dia. I load 8.5 gr Unique, crimp and go 2.410 OAL. 2 inch groups all day long at 50 yds, 1150 fps average, very pleasant fun load to shoot. Dont know if your lee boolits are gas chk or flat but I ended up with a gas chk and its no big deal. I did try some .35 cal pistol boolits but didnt have good results.

[Tripplebeards]

I don’t own the lee mold anymore but casted up about 20 pounds before I got rid of it. It fell apart. I have a group buy HP mold I’ll be casting with in the next couple days. Both boolits/molds are GC versions. My 1970, 336 slugged at .357 and I sized my boolits at .359.5”

I plan on running mine at full tilt, J word, max loadings. I have no need for light plinking loads. That’s what my 77/44 is for. I’ll keep juggling powders, boolit styles, and alloys till I find one that can group with a max charge or close to it in this gun. If not back to the dreaded J word I will go.

[Les Staley]

Relic, what does your 1951 35 Remington Marlin like for cast? I have one same vintage, a Sporting Carbine. The RCBS 35-200 boolets are a little oversized in the nose for the carbine, but I picked up a Saeco mould of the same design and the nose is noticeably smaller. I can seat out a little further even PCed.

[Tripplebeards]

I casted up a bunch of 200 grain HP’s from our .360 group buy mold yesterday. First time trying the mold. Very easy to cast from. I did getting finning around all the HP areas but I can easily scratch it off with my finger nail. I’m sure my new seater die will push them flat. The majority weighed 198 grains with my 16:1 pure lead flooring and pewter mix. I will PC and GC them. I’m hoping this 7.5 BH, soft, malleable alloy will really open up a d hold together at 2000 plus FPS with good accuracy. I’m going to have to try these in my whelen as well.

https://i.imgur.com/eh6Bqrd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eklB3rK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/twfMJCG.jpg

[Tripplebeards]

I seated some of my HP’s today. It worked great. The alloy on the right is a lot softer (7.8bh). It looks like the HP rim flattened a little on the softer 16:1. The alloy on the left is 10.4 Bh...50/50.

https://i.imgur.com/l4lDjsy.jpg