Smith and Wesson Model 10 question

[6901]

I always thought a Smith and Wesson Model 10 looked like a revolver should. Although I have never owned one I hope to shortly. I know the model numbers are 10-1, 10-2 and so on. Is their a thought on the best version or time frame of production for this revolver.

I do intend to shoot and carry the gun, it will not be a safe queen.

Thanks

[Sprue]

I have a model 10 snub. Love that thing. The trigger is like glass. The old Smith's have triggers like no other. I have a Manual that tells all, about most gun's but am not home right now.

[murf205]

Beginning with the 10-2 on the standard barrel and 10-3 on the heavy barrel guns the threads on the extractor rods were changed to left hand threads to keep from loosening and giving way harder opening. By 10-6 the trigger guard screw had been eliminated which is no deal breaker for a shooter/carry gun. From there on through the 10-8 models, the changes are pretty minor until you get to the 10-9, starting in 1988 which included the new yoke retention system, radius stud and floating hand hammer nose bushing on the tapered barrels. These are very desirable features for a S&W that you are going to shoot a lot with some top (not OVER the top) loads in. The 10-10 applies the same package as above to the heavy barrels. Smith started using MIM instead of machined parts along about 1997, which some people complain about but I have never had a bit of a problem with MIM parts. Later models also features the lock with the hole in the left side of the frame just above the cylinder latch. S&W purist hate the look and I am a fence straddler when it comes to the lock. I have a nickle 24 and a 629 with the dreaded Hillary Hole and neither has ever gave 1 minute of problems. I had a heavy barrel model 10 and, like a young fool that I was, sold it. It was as good a shooting gun as I've ever held. The "pencil" barrels shoot just as well so you really can't go wrong with a 10-? What ever you end up with, post some pics--we love gun porn.259945 Here is my gun and, shamefully, it is an unfired safe queen.

[murf205]

6901, get a copy of Standard Catalog of Smith&Wesson. It is really a 432 page book by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas. It in invaluable as far as referencing S&W guns and great company history as well.

[Speedo66]

S&W also pinned the barrels of Model 10's to prevent them from unscrewing until 1982. Not sure what series that relates to.

No rash of barrels unscrewing themselves after that though. lol

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Before it was designated as the Model 10 it was known as the Military & Police. In general, as they came from the factory, the commercial production M&Ps had a smoother, long action, which was redesigned a bit in the later Model 10s and is called the short action. There wasn't much difference in the M&Ps and 10s external appearance, and it was only in the last 15 years or so that they started to look different. There seems to be a lot of Mod. 10s on the used gun market right now, many imported as surplus from foreign law enforcement agencies. They range in condition from very nice to not so good, so chose carefully if you have a selection.

[Outpost75]

S&W also pinned the barrels of Model 10's to prevent them from unscrewing until 1982. Not sure what series that relates to.

No rash of barrels unscrewing themselves after that though. lol

That is true, but they introduced thread choke with that change.

[metricmonkeywrench]

My range mule is a 10-6, first year for the heavy barrel. Does everything I want it to do and have no worries about handing it to any new shooter.

I am a firm supporter of the belief that there should be one in every safe.

[ShooterAZ]

I have an old US Property marked Victory Model M&P, a 2" 10-7 Nickle Plated, a 3" 10-7 heavy barrel blued, and a 4" 10-8 blued pencil barrel. All of them are excellent shooters and are not safe queens! They are definitely among my very favorite handguns of all time to shoot and enjoy. Thanks to "Social Distancing", I have now discovered that I don't need to cast or load any 38 Special ammo for quite a while. I had a chance to sort through boxes and boxes of "stuff", and found a lot of "stuff" that I sort of "forgot" that I had. Now I just need to get out in the woods and do some more "Social Distancing" with my Model 10's. They are most enjoyable so OP get out and get yourself one, but stay safe in doing so!

[wgg]

I never could understand the way some folks doted on model 10's. Late last year I decided to try one for myself. I found a like new 10-8, round-but 4" heavy barrel. I was concerned about the anemic 38 special. I looked at Hodgdon's load data for both 38 Special and +p. Hodgdon's CFE is impressive with standard pressure loads let alone +p. I carry mine constantly and have taken 2 hogs 100-125 lb.s or so, within the last week. MP 359 Hammer with the Penta hp and plus p load of Long Shot. Very impressed with the results. All in all a very balanced revolver, considering power and performance.

[ddixie884]

I have owned a few M-10s and they are hard to beat. My first quality firearm was a
Combat masterpiece and so I have two M-15s instead but I do have a M-12 I am fond of.....

[murf205]

They are just a damn good gun that shoots where you point it and doesn't take a gorilla to shoot it accurately. Remember, " It aint what you shoot, it's how you shoot it"

[6901]

Thanks for all the information and book recommendation!
Always appreciate the good nature of the people here!

[tazman]

I have been looking for a good model 10 locally for a while without any luck. I did run across a good model 13 so I purchased it.
I am pretending it is a model 10 and it shoots right to the sights.
Excellent gun. Hard to beat a S&W K frame.
I have a 17, 617, 13, 14, 15, and a 19. All are excellent shooters.

[Outpost75]

The 10-8 back to the 10-5 were good solid duty guns. The earlier and later ones less so.

[Boolseye]

My first high-caliber handgun was a model 66-1. It may also be the last one I would part with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jumbeaux]

The 10-8 back to the 10-5 were good solid duty guns. The earlier and later ones less so.

Sir what makes the no dash Model 10 thru 10-4 less solid than the 10-5 thru 10-8 ?

rick

[M-Tecs]

Some info on the changes for each dash # here on post #3

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/122098-model-10-variations.html

[Gregorious]

I have a 10-6 .357 S&W Magnum that I bought at 16 years old. Still a fine shooting handgun.

[Tatume]

From there on through the 10-8 models, the changes are pretty minor until you get to the 10-9, starting in 1988 which included the new yoke retention system, radius stud and floating hand hammer nose bushing on the tapered barrels. These are very desirable features for a S&W that you are going to shoot a lot with some top (not OVER the top) loads in.

As a minor disagreement, the radius studs are not desirable. The radius end of the stud is not supported by the side plate. This will usually not cause a problem, but it isn't an ideal condition.


The 10-10 applies the same package as above to the heavy barrels. Smith started using MIM instead of machined parts along about 1997, which some people complain about but I have never had a bit of a problem with MIM parts.

Agree. Although the older (pinned barrel) guns sometimes (certainly not always) have a nicer action, the MIM actions are very good, and are consistently good. I have many, and like all of them. The only tuning I've done is to shim the hammers and triggers to eliminate canting on the studs, and keep them clean and well-oiled internally. I can't swear that shimming makes any improvement, but it does no harm, and makes me feel confident.

[TNsailorman]

I bought the argument on "mim" parts for some time and then I bought a .45 that had them and I got my views changed a little. That .45 is one of the slickest revolvers I have ever owned. It not only has "mim" parts but the key lock(gasp) also. Time will tell on how they wear but so far I am for giving them some slack because of this .45. We will see how it goes in the future. james

[Guesser]

Last year I was wandering thru a gun shop in Great Falls Montana and spied what I thought was a 10-6 heavy barrel 4" 38 Special. I asked to look and indeed it was a 10-6. When I rolled the gun over to verify the chambering, 38 Special or 38 S&W; I found it was marked for 357 Magnum. Factory markings, no aftermarket in any way. I bought it and brought it home with me. Indeed it is a 357, blue, 4" HB model 10-6, fixed sights and all. Research pointed me to the early 1970's and New York State Police, special contract to S&W for 1200 Model 10-6 chambered in 357 Magnum...It was that contract that induced S&W to bring out the Model 13.......4" HB 357, end of story. I contacted S&W and was told that my 10-6, 357 was in the serial number range of the NYSP contract. Really a good shooter, as all Model 10's are.
But it is an interesting find.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Guesser-- that's definitely a good one to have in your collection. Not that many made, and not many distributed outside of N.Y.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I always thought a Smith and Wesson Model 10 looked like a revolver should. Although I have never owned one I hope to shortly. I know the model numbers are 10-1, 10-2 and so on. Is their a thought on the best version or time frame of production for this revolver.

I do intend to shoot and carry the gun, it will not be a safe queen.

Thanks
I've owned 3 different older model 10 guns (I don't recall the dash numbers?). All were police trade-in guns...one was a German military police re-importation gun.

No one mentioned this, maybe because it's too obvious?
But if you are looking at Model 10 guns, older than 20 years old, then they could likely be police trade-in, then it's much more important to understand what to look for, in regards to heavy use and being worn out, than a specific time frame of manufacture.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I bought the argument on "mim" parts for some time and then I bought a .45 that had them and I got my views changed a little. That .45 is one of the slickest revolvers I have ever owned. It not only has "mim" parts but the key lock(gasp) also. Time will tell on how they wear but so far I am for giving them some slack because of this .45. We will see how it goes in the future. james

James,
I also have a newish 45, Model 625-JM, Mim parts, lock, and the new style 6 groove EDM rifling. I'm trying to love this gun, while I don't hate it, it sure ain't as lovable as my older 625-8 that I swapped for the 625-JM.

[Outpost75]

Sir what makes the no dash Model 10 thru 10-4 less solid than the 10-5 thru 10-8 ?

rick

Rockwell hardness tester doesn't lie. Check a few dozen frames and cylinders yourself and then post the results. Or just run 1000 rounds of +P through one and measure the barrel-cylinder gap and end-shake before and after.

[jumbeaux]

Rockwell hardness tester doesn't lie. Check a few dozen frames and cylinders yourself and then post the results. Or just run 1000 rounds of +P through one and measure the barrel-cylinder gap and end-shake before and after.

Sir I believe I asked you a legitimate question. I realize you are the self proclaimed genius of all thing Ruger, S&W and Colt Revolvers. If someone has a different opinion you tend to get up on your high horse to prove you are superior in experience and knowledge. I respect your experience but your responses seem to "talk down". Your last response to a PM from me was also condescending with your "DUH" comment ! Your "research" stated that S&W Revolvers need retiming, restoration of cylinder gap and restoration to minimize end shake much sooner than many of us have experienced. I know you are a Ruger Fan which is great but some prefer S&W or Colt. Did S&W change, modify or improve heat treatment from the 10-4 to the 10-5 ? If all of us would feed our revolvers with the ammo they were designed for your assertion would be mote. If you desire magnum performance from a 38 Special then do yourself a favor and buy a 357 Magnum.
I certainly expect a terse response and maybe a time out for stating my opinion about a sacred cow.

rick

[murf205]

As a minor disagreement, the radius studs are not desirable. The radius end of the stud is not supported by the side plate. This will usually not cause a problem, but it isn't an ideal condition.



Agree. Although the older (pinned barrel) guns sometimes (certainly not always) have a nicer action, the MIM actions are very good, and are consistently good. I have many, and like all of them. The only tuning I've done is to shim the hammers and triggers to eliminate canting on the studs, and keep them clean and well-oiled internally. I can't swear that shimming makes any improvement, but it does no harm, and makes me feel confident.

As I understand the radius stud package, S&W started machine a slight radius to the hammer and trigger studs to facilitate easier assembly. The other changes were to aid in keeping the cylinder "in time" while shooting heavy loads. I am almost sure that they named it "the endurance package" because it sounded a lot better than saying we upgraded a gun and giving the impression that the previous guns were substandard, which I, for one do not subscribe to. Now, with all that out of the way, I have never had a problem with a broken stud nor do I know anyone who has broken a stud on a radiusd S&W revolver. I am sure that some where , some how, some one has broken a stud but they were probably running the action with the side plate off-my assumption only. I have 2 revolvers with the new package and I recommend them based on my lack of problems.
Again, as I understand it, some people were having problems with the cylinder unlocking and turning under heavy recoil. I have never seen this personally and my 29-2 was my IHMS gun and it had over a thousand rounds of handloads that I would be afraid to reveal today. The new hand was supposed to eliminate this. Thankfully, my creator has let me live long enough to be wise (depending upon who you ask) enough to refrain from bazooka level loads.

[ShooterAZ]

Many of these Model 10's are police trade in units from foreign countries. The few that I have seen recently showed a good bit of external wear, but the internals were still quite good. Carried a lot but fired little. CAI is a major importer of these Model 10's, and their grading has been pretty spot on from what I have seen. If you order one in VG condition, that is what you'll get.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Sir I believe I asked you a legitimate question. I realize you are the self proclaimed genius of all thing Ruger, S&W and Colt Revolvers. If someone has a different opinion you tend to get up on your high horse to prove you are superior in experience and knowledge. I respect your experience but your responses seem to "talk down". Your last response to a PM from me was also condescending with your "DUH" comment ! Your "research" stated that S&W Revolvers need retiming, restoration of cylinder gap and restoration to minimize end shake much sooner than many of us have experienced. I know you are a Ruger Fan which is great but some prefer S&W or Colt. Did S&W change, modify or improve heat treatment from the 10-4 to the 10-5 ? If all of us would feed our revolvers with the ammo they were designed for your assertion would be mote. If you desire magnum performance from a 38 Special then do yourself a favor and buy a 357 Magnum.
I certainly expect a terse response and maybe a time out for stating my opinion about a sacred cow.

rick

Outpost75 simply let you know without wasting lots of time and bandwidth that those early S&Ws were not as durable as the later ones. It's not hard to discern that higher Rockwell hardness in a revolver of any brand is going to (generally) last longer. I've been around a long time, have used many revolvers and autopistols professionally, trained internationally and seen a couple of million rounds downrange from service weapons. I've worked in the industry and still do and have found Outpost75 approachable, friendly and without a doubt the most knowledgeable guy I've encountered in that community and industry.

[Tatume]

As I understand the radius stud package, S&W started machine a slight radius to the hammer and trigger studs to facilitate easier assembly. ... Now, with all that out of the way, I have never had a problem with a broken stud nor do I know anyone who has broken a stud on a radiusd S&W revolver.

Murf, I also have never seen the radiused studs cause a problem, and I said so. My *minor* point was simply that the radiused studs are not desirable. They offer no advantage to the owner of the gun. All this was up front in my post, so I don't know what you are upset about.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Hey, my friends, let's all take a deep breath and one step back. After all we share more similarities than differences, and those are usually minor and of no consequence as to whether the sun will rise tomorrow or not. So, here's some of mine for your viewing pleasure. Click to enlarge:
260024 The top one is not a 10, the middle is a 15 and lower a 10, and in great shape. Purchased about a year ago.
260025 These are old time police guns. The top one probably belonged to a San Francisco motorcycle officer, and the bottom one with the pearl-like grips to a Chicago homicide detective. Both have their owner's names on them.........
260026 I bought this one new in about 1966, and it's still NIB unfired. Can you read the price tag? It just worked out that way, and now after so many years it's worth more the way it is.

[Petrol & Powder]

I've owned a small pile of K-frames over the years and many of them were model 10's. A model 10 is an iconic gun.

I wouldn't go too far back in history if I could avoid it. The reason for that advice is partially based on what Outpost75 stated (the hardness of the frames/cylinders gets better along the line) and because of parts availability. While all models 10's are basically the same, they are not exactly the same. Left and right hand threads for the ejector rod, 4 screw verse 3 screw side plates, the type of screw that retains the yoke, the location of the gas ring, etc.
For me, a dash 5 is a good place to start. From dash 5 forward you're dealing with a fairly modern gun. Even and odd dash numbers denote heavy verses tapered barreled models at dash 5 and the frames are tougher than the very early versions.

If someone gave me a very early model 10 I wouldn't turn it down but if I was spending my own money, I would probably be looking at a dash 5 or newer.

[Drm50]

I don’t keep fixed sight guns but the S&W m10 is the best DA revolver ever built. S&W built on DA revolvers which put them ahead of Colt. I have a small hoard of S&Ws. All blue and all P&R era guns. I don’t mind non pinned barrels but you can’t sell me on MIM parts in any gun. You are just fooling yourself if you think they will hold up like milled parts. I only keep adj sight models in 38sp got m14s, M15s, and one M&P Target the father of m14 (K38) I get quite a few m10 but use them for trade bait. Most are 4” with occasional 6” or snub.

[Outpost75]

Fixed sight service guns will usually shoot to point of aim with a standard service load for the caliber. A common practice was to target .38/.357 guns for normal commercial production with wadcutters, as these were accurate and also provided a practical check on charge hole - barrel alignment, to detect "spitters" which either over-rotated more than 5 degrees of TDC or didn't carry up (factory repair code is DCU) in DA.

Vertical point of impact in revolvers is determined more by bullet weight than velocity. Heavier bullets tend to shoot higher, lighter bullets lower because a hand-held revolver in recoil is a pendulum and projectiles having a lower recoil impulse and shorter bore time leave the muzzle at a lower angle of departure than a heavier bullet having greater recoil impulse and lower velocity which increases bore-time which permits the gun to rotate more in the hand before muzzle exit.

Horizontal point of impact can vary with differences in recoil impulse, grip and manner of support, whether the gunner is right or left-handed and is he or she executes a correct "row the boat" straight through DA trigger stroke, or if side-pressure is applied to the trigger by a novice who is "staging" it. It is not at all unusual to observe as much as 3" shift in windage between shooters and loads, Depending upon how the gunner grips the gun, how the gun moves in recoil, and the particular load.

FIXED SIGHT GUNS ARE HIGHLY INDIVIDUAL! But once you settle on one load, one gun, one shooter, and tweak the gun and load a fixed sight gun is far superior for rough duty, severe service.

In typical 3" to 4" fixed sight service guns wadcutters will shoot approximately to point of aim at 20-25 yards, 158 grain lead +P a bit high, but still in the ten-ring of a B15 repair center, and 125-grainers mostly in the lower edge of the ten and 9-ring at 6:00. Contract revolvers for the Feds or large police departments would be targeted with ammunition provided as government furnished material as required by the contract, and the correct height of front sight installed, or if integral on the barrel forging, it would be machined to exact height to correct POI as needed to make the spec.

Usually a ten-board of guns would be shot, the needed sight correction determined, then all of the guns assembled alike. In the 1980s typical targeting was done by the gunner firing hand-held on sandbags, aiming at a 2" black at 20 yards, or a 2-1/2" black at 25 yards (one inch per ten), having a 4" circle at 20 yards or 5" circle at 25 yards tangent at 6:00 to the black aiming point. For normal production all six rounds had to strike within the outer circle. If the fellows in the barrel shop were doing a good job most revolvers would put 5 of 6 shots into the black aiming mark.

Windage correction was acomplished by turning the barrel a wee bit by striking the barrel lug with a babbit bar. The fellows who do this for a living are highly skilled at it and any factory trained cop armorer back in the day could correct your duty gun as needed to get it "on" with your department ammo.

Adjustable sight are great for target shooters and hobbyists who like to experiment with a multitude of different loads, but many old school dinosaurs who still carry wheelguns afield prefer fixed sights which won't move if inadvertently dropped or shaken loose from heavy recoil. Indeed, my adjustable sight S&W Models 28 and 29 once zeroed, get flooded with blue 242 Loctite to stay put.

And for the record ALL of the adjustable sights on my Rugers are replaced with Bowen Rough Country sights which are adjusted and Loctited as above, because the Ruger adjustable sights are fragile and not to be depended upon and YES, you may quote me on that. 8-)

[nikonuser]

Its easy to put down certain versions of an individual model of gun down in terms of fit and finish, and even metal quality or heat treat if you want. But there are SOME things that cant really be forgotten here.

Its American made, and its a Smith and Wesson, what cant you love? If its maintained right, treated right, fed the right ammunition, its a dependable gun. There are many guns on the market such as charter arms, rohm, raven, phoenix arms, bryco, armscor/rock island, that DESPERATELY wish they could have the fit and finish and quality of what you guys would call

an "undesirable" dash number model 10. The ONLY things to consider when dealing with ANY police trade in gun, or revolver of the possible age a model 10 can be are this:

1. some model years will have better finish due to being war time production.
2. heat treating, machining, etc. its ok. its a smith. SMILE.
3. Some models can only use designated 38 special ammunition. Others can use ammunition from buffalo bore and "38/44" level. As others have said over the decades, if you think or feel a cartridge case a 38 special head stamp is going to be sufficient for all of your needs. Get a gun marked as .357 magnum.

4. Police trade in guns are a double edged sword. Many have had the actions made DAO, front sights machined down to adjust poi/poa with a SPECIFIC load data you don't have access to. And many are not in usable condition. Seen enough customer reviews from jg sales police trade in guns where "good condition"and "very good condition" can mean split forcing cones, broken sears, bulged and split barrels.

5. Depending on AGE, you cant expect to get replacement parts for them anymore. That's the main draw to get the newest gun you can that doesn't have a Hilary hole

[725]

I was issued a Model 10 in '76. I hated to give that one up. They gave me a Model 64 to replace it. Both were good as gold to shoot.

[35 Whelen]

Or just run 1000 rounds of +P through one and measure the barrel-cylinder gap and end-shake before and after.

I've never really understood this line of thought. Why would anyone shoot that much +P??

My Dillon 550 right now is set up to load 155-ish gr. SWC's (H&G 51) to 900-930 fps out of my 10's and my 15. I shoot lots of these loads firing them most evenings after work and on weekends. Through these same revolvers I've tested a lot of loads that run a 170 SWC (Lyman 358429) a bit over 1000 fps as well as 150-ish gr. cast SWCHP's a bit over 1050 fps. But I see no reason to shoot these loads over and over. They're saved for hunting and self defense. Also FWIW, C.I.P. (Europe's version of SAAMI) doesn't recognize a +P .38 Special load, rather their maximum pressure for the cartridge is 22,000 psi. So one can only guess what some of these 10's that were issued to overseas PD's had fired though them.


Adjustable sight are great for target shooters and hobbyists who like to experiment with a multitude of different loads, but many old school dinosaurs who still carry wheelguns afield prefer fixed sights which won't move if inadvertently dropped or shaken loose from heavy recoil. Indeed, my adjustable sight S&W Models 28 and 29 once zeroed, get flooded with blue 242 Loctite to stay put.

And for the record ALL of the adjustable sights on my Rugers are replaced with Bowen Rough Country sights which are adjusted and Loctited as above, because the Ruger adjustable sights are fragile and not to be depended upon and YES, you may quote me on that. 8-)

This x10.

A well made revolver doesn't shoot left or right, the fella running it does. When I first got in to handgun shooting, specifically SA's, "they" all shot left and I was constantly messing with the front sights trying to correct windage. I FINALLY figured out that I was the problem. Once I learned how to shoot, the revolvers, with the exception of one Ruger Police Service Six whose barrel wasn't sufficiently tightened when assembled, they all started shooting straight.

A wise old SA shooter on another forum told some unbelievers, the next time they were at a gun show, to notice the position of the rear sight blade on used revolvers. He allowed that they would find most of them cranked over to the right to make up for improper grip/trigger pull. Since I rarely go to gunshows, I chose Gunbroker and browsed dozens of used revovlers, looking at their rear sights, when possible. In no time at all I had found a dozen with their rear sight blades positioned right of center.

35W

[Texas by God]

I'm on a couple of notification lists for trade in m10s. I want at least one pencil barrel 4". No one has any right now it seems. I just gave my oldest daughter my m15 Combat Masterpiece. The K frame is my idea of a DA revolver, period.

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[gnostic]

My model 10 is a 5 screw 2'' with the square butt. I just looked at it and it has the serial number on the frame and the crane, but I don't see a model number....

[Der Gebirgsjager]

If it doesn't have a "C" in front of the serial no. then it is likely an M&P pre-Mod. 10.

[Petrol & Powder]

Outpost75 wrote:


"......FIXED SIGHT GUNS ARE HIGHLY INDIVIDUAL! But once you settle on one load, one gun, one shooter, and tweak the gun and load a fixed sight gun is far superior for rough duty, severe service." -- AMEN !! I couldn't agree with this more.

And Outpost75 wrote : ",,,,,Adjustable sight(s) are great for target shooters and hobbyists who like to experiment with a multitude of different loads, but many old school dinosaurs who still carry wheelguns afield prefer fixed sights which won't move if inadvertently dropped or shaken loose from heavy recoil. " - These are words I live by. I will take fixed sights over adjustable sights any day of the week and twice on Sunday

[M-Tecs]

I must be extremely unlucky with fixed sight wheel guns. Through the years I have owned 2 or 3 dozen fixed sight wheel guns and only a few shot into 2-1/2" black at 25 yards for windage (+ or - 1 1/4 left or right of centerline). My S&W 64 does. Same for my S&W 337PD. That one has the best single action trigger pull I have ever owned and it is perfect for POI with 129 grain Federal Hydra-Shok +P. When my eyes were better I won a fair amount of money shooting a 10.6 oz snubby it against full size guns.

Of my 3 model 10's two shoot to the left and one shoots to the right. Same for most of the fixed sight single actions. These were purchased as pairs for SASS and most are consecutive serial numbers. One shoot to the left and one will shoot to the right. As pairs elevation tended not to be consistent.

Not a wheel gun but when I received 24 new unfired Beretta M9's for the pistol team I fired all of them. I was amazed how well they held POI. Same for the ones I qualified with.

[Petrol & Powder]

Not to drift too far here but the fixed sights vs. adjustable sights issue has a lot to do with the use.

Rough duty and severe service (the words used by Outpost75) are the key. Adjustable sights have their place but sometimes simple is good.
When I was young (admittedly a long time ago) I thought handguns needed adjustable sights to be accurate. My opinion was clouded by the fact that guns with adjustable sights were always more expensive (giving the illusion that more expensive must be better) and that mere "service" revolvers & pistols had fixed sights.
I was corrected by a few people that possessed some hard earned knowledge and experience.

I learned to appreciate the strengths of fixed sights. They are not always the right choice but sometimes they are absolutely the right choice.

[TNsailorman]

Everybody to his own as far as revolvers and pistols are concerned. Me, I guess I am one of those dinosaurs that was mentioned in a previous post. I have 3 revolvers currently and only one of them has adjustable sights, a Model 57 in .41 magnum and a 6" barrel. I shoot several different loads in it thus adjustable sights. AS for +P loads, the only +P that I have or use is in the Model 13 .357magnum with a 3" barrel, my current carry gun. Even in the Model 13, I have only shot enough +P's to see where they strike at 20 yards and that is that. They are for defense only. The vast majority of my shooting is done with medium to sedate loads to try to keep the old eye and hand in tune. I don't want to try to tune up a revolver every 2 or 3 years. I found when I was shooting competition that revolvers as well a semi-autos needed to be fine tuned after a couple of thousand rounds or so. The semi's more so than the revolvers. I have a .45acp revolver (a Thunder Ranch Special) that has been tuned and it is a joy to shoot. A beautiful smooth double action revolver(I have gone to double action only in my revolver shooting) and very accurate. It too has fixed sights. Yes you do have to play with bullet/boolit and powder loads to find its point of impact but I would do that even with adjustable sights. my experience anyway, james

[Speedo66]

I carried a S&W revolver for twenty years, then we transitioned to Glocks. I retired 11 years ago after 40 years of service and last year bought one of the police trade in Model 65's.

I had forgotten what a joy a nice S&W revolver could be! This one now has a set of lighter Wolff springs in it, very nice action and entirely reliable, not one fail to fire single or double action with factory ammo or handloads.

My recommendation is, if you can find one of the police trade ins, grab it. I don't think there's a better revolver out there than a K frame, especially at that price point.

I know there are other brands known for their exception strength, but unless you actually are going to load them to max pressure, for everyday use you can't beat a K frame. In my not so humble opinion, anyway. lol

[Shawlerbrook]

I have a 1950’s vintage S&W m10 with a 5” barrel that was Utica,NY PD gun. I agree that they are what a revolver should look like.

[Petrol & Powder]

…….

No idea what your idea of rough usage is, ………………. ill bet that your usage is "stick in holster and walk to bathroom"

You would be very wrong about that

[gnostic]

If it doesn't have a "C" in front of the serial no. then it is likely an M&P pre-Mod. 10.

You nailed it, I went to gunbroker and they have one just like it listed...

[35 Whelen]

Nothing wrong with adjustable, and considering how many people used adjustable sights for 1,000$ PPC revolvers, I just get the feeling that adjustable rear sights don't hurt accuracy at all. But to argue the question "rough usage" on a handgun.

No idea what your idea of rough usage is, but unless you stick the gun in your waist band and roll down a 70' tall hill, ill bet that your usage is "stick in holster and walk to bathroom"

There's nothing inherently wrong with adjustable sights, but there's simply no denying that they're more fragile than those of the fixed variety. If you carry a revolver in the field, working, hunting, etc., I mean really wearing one during physical activity, something will happen eventually.
The fact that folks use them on $1000 PPC revolvers, as you say, is a perfect example that their fine for playing games and farting around target shooting.

35W

[M-Tecs]

Just my opinion. With my opinion and 3 bucks you can get a cheap cup of coffee. In the realm of self defense fixed verse adjustable sights breaks down to intended usage between defensive (torso hits under 10 yards) or offensive usage (heads shots or torso shoots at longer ranges).

Growing up in the 70's I shot a lot with the local LE. One of them did get into a scuffle during a DUI stop. During the wrestling match his rear sight was ripped off the frame. Both fixed and adjustable sights have +'s and -'s. A fixed sight wheel gun that shoots to POI perfectly is a thing of beauty. I don't remember ever not purchasing a model 10 due to being a fixed sight gun. Basically I've purchased everyone that I've seen that was a "good to great" deal. Most have be sold to friends that wanted a good easy to shoot home defense gun. Some I will never sell.

[Outpost75]

Here are some targets fired with vintage fixed sight cop guns and ammo which show how they were zeroed.

260069260070260071

[tazman]

that's the thing, MOST fixed sight guns aren't really calibrated for standard loads anymore.

I have never owned a fixed sight handgun that did not shoot to point of aim with standard loads.
That said, any time I had an issue, it was because I wasn't handling the trigger properly.
Due to an old injury to my trigger finger, I have to pay close attention to my trigger pull and make sure I do it straight back. The injury tries to make me pull a little sideways. Every gun I thought was mis-aligned, shot to the sights when I got my trigger handling straightened out.

[M-Tecs]

I have never owned a fixed sight handgun that did not shoot to point of aim with standard loads.


Again I guess I am just lucky. I have sent a total of 5 new purchases wheel guns back since they were off 8 to 16 inches at 25 yards left or right.

Above I stated that I've owned 2 or 3 dozen fixed sight single or double action revolvers. After thinking about it that is a way under count.

When purchased used I repair myself or they go down the road. For me about 10% have been excellent for POI, about 20% are not good enough for me to be interested in keeping with the rest good enough for the intended purpose.

[Bill*B]

One of my favorite handguns is a Military & Police that is older than I am. It's a tough little fella that will outlast me.

[Mr_Sheesh]

M-Tecs, I suspect the good & bad news on your local LEO's wrestling situation is that sights are really optional at nose to nose range, and that they're a bit stressy! Sights can be repaired later (but if that DUI stop "suspect" had a partner who was further away, that makes it lots more stressy at the time!)

[Drm50]

I got an M&P Target and it shoots right with K38s. I kind of like it because it has same tapered barrel as service model. Makes it lighter. Like the difference between a 24 and 29.

[35 Whelen]

Well, yesterday evening instead of planting the garden, I grabbed a double handful of cartridges from the bin under the Dillon 550 and spent some quality time with my ragamuffin Model 10-7. She's homely, but shoots like a dream.

All of my 25 yd. shooting is offhand because 1) My bench doesn't line up well with my 25 yd. target stand and 2) I just plain suck a shooting handguns from a bench. So my modus operandi is to select a spot on the steel target, shoot at it, then use the first bullet mark as an aiming point. Yes...it really does shoot that close to the sights. It's a little hard to tell, but these are all five shot groups.

https://i.imgur.com/VtxnYQ6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/zGHaIac.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/g4nV7Vl.jpg

For me, the real test of gun, load and bullet is 50 - 75 yds., so I flung the last 10 rounds at my 75 yd. target from a seated back-rested position.

https://i.imgur.com/8Sml0fI.jpg

I held at the top of the steel target and the first shot was the low left one. It was getting late and the shadows were long across the target making it a little difficult to get a good sight picture. But all things considered, I was pretty happy with the remaining nine and especially those seven that were pretty close to center.


35W

[Thumbcocker]

Nice shooting with a classic revolver.

[Petrol & Powder]

The only gun that can replace a Model 10 is another Model 10 !

It really is an iconic handgun.

Nice Shooting 35 Whelen.

And I wouldn't classify that 10-7 as homely, That's an Awesome gun.

[Burnt Fingers]

I have in my possession a M&P five screw, pinned, no recess. I've put in a request on another forum to get a date on it. I may have to come up with the funds to make it mine.

[Tatume]

S/N range 1-20975, 1899-1902, 4-screw, no locking lug on barrel
S/N range 20976-33803, 1902-1903, 4-screw, with locking lug on barrel
S/N range 33804-62449, 1903-1905, 4-screw, with locking lug
S/N range 62450-73250, 1905-1906, 5-screw
S/N range 73251-146899, 1906-1909 , first change & second change overlap
S/N range 146900-241703, 1909-1915
S/N range 241704-1000000, 1915-1942, heat treat cylinder starts with S/N 316648

Standard Catalog of Smith& Wesson
Hope it helps.

[Texas by God]

In the early 80’s I bought a 5” m10 during lunch at a local cafe. $75.
Took it to the river and reduced a bit of floating branch to splinters. Sold it to a friend for $100, thinking I could find another 5”m10 easily enough. Still looking........
I had a 6” Barney Fife Special as well- HAD.....
Gun trading is a sickness, I tell you.

[merlin101]

In the early 80’s I bought a 5” m10 during lunch at a local cafe. $75.
Took it to the river and reduced a bit of floating branch to splinters. Sold it to a friend for $100, thinking I could find another 5”m10 easily enough. Still looking........
I had a 6” Barney Fife Special as well- HAD.....
Gun trading is a sickness, I tell you.

I guess that'll teach, until the next time! Been there and done it. I just recently picked up my first M10 it a 10-10 and an Australian police turn in has quite a bit of holster wear but other that it's perfect. Only been to the range once with but I'm impressed! I think I did good for $300.

[Burnt Fingers]

S/N range 1-20975, 1899-1902, 4-screw, no locking lug on barrel
S/N range 20976-33803, 1902-1903, 4-screw, with locking lug on barrel
S/N range 33804-62449, 1903-1905, 4-screw, with locking lug
S/N range 62450-73250, 1905-1906, 5-screw
S/N range 73251-146899, 1906-1909 , first change & second change overlap
S/N range 146900-241703, 1909-1915
S/N range 241704-1000000, 1915-1942, heat treat cylinder starts with S/N 316648

Standard Catalog of Smith& Wesson
Hope it helps.

Yes it does. I have been told it likely shipped in 1930. I did not know the heat treatment part. it is a heat treated cylinder.

I'm going to clean it up and inspect it. If it's tight I'm going to buy it. I've wanted a pencil barrel for a long time. The appeal of a 90 year old gun is hard to resist.

There's also a 1918 Colt 1911, US Property, it's had a lot of work done to it so the originality of it is gone. If it's a decent shooter I'll buy that too. It has a S&W K frame adjustable sight fitted to the slide. Quite good work actually.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

The S&W adjustable sight on a 1911 used to be quite common amongst the bullseye shooters. It required some careful milling of the slide, as I recall.

[Thumbcocker]

In the early 80’s I bought a 5” m10 during lunch at a local cafe. $75.
Took it to the river and reduced a bit of floating branch to splinters. Sold it to a friend for $100, thinking I could find another 5”m10 easily enough. Still looking........
I had a 6” Barney Fife Special as well- HAD.....
Gun trading is a sickness, I tell you.

A wise old man once told me "when you get a gun that shoots good, regardless of make, model,or looks keep it" He was talking a bout a 2" model 10 that he had that shot lights out but looked ratty.

[tazman]

A wise old man once told me "when you get a gun that shoots good, regardless of make, model,or looks keep it" He was talking a bout a 2" model 10 that he had that shot lights out but looked ratty.

That old man knew what he was talking about. I have a number of older, ratty looking guns that shoot really well. Often, you can get these guns for a really good savings over guns that look great.
Since I never buy safe queens, the ratty look doesn't bother me unless it impairs function.

[TNsailorman]

I had a friend who owned a local gun shop and he shot Combat Pistol Matches with our gun club in the late 70's and 80's. He would bring the worst looking revolver he could find(usually rusted on the outside and dinged and banged) and proceed to take top gun with it. Some looked like they had been in 3 wars and on the losing side of all. He was at one time a well ranked shooter at Perry. He loved doing this just because some of the guys were spending big money on having their revolvers tuned and worked. He told me one day that he wanted those younger guys to realize that it was the shooter and plenty of practice that counted most and not expensive equipment. He shot a lot of old model 10's and m&p's. He could really handle a revolver or a pistol.