Rolling block 12.7x44R accuracy and questions

[Misery-Whip]

I met a guy 3 years ago at the range with a rolling block, he let me shoot it, been having thoughts ever since.

Im considering a 1860s 12.7x44R Remington rolling block. I see using 500 linebaugh, or 500 alaskan brass is a realistic option. Some talk of trimming but dont mention a length. Clearly a chamber cast is in order, just trying to get more knowlege before jumping in. Which mold are you using?

Any handloading advise, or wait for another caliber?

Speaking of groups have any targets to share?

Id be happy hitting milk jugs 9/10 times @ 75-100yd

[corbinace]

I too have just started loading for this rifle. Here is some of what I think I have learned.

The original load was a 386 grain bullet.
A lot of people use 348 Winchester brass or 50/70 brass as a parent.
50/70 load data is appropriate.
Brass at 2.730 down to 2.650 for some shorter chambers.
Many use a Lyman mold 515141 of 425 grains with acceptable accuracy.
Another person recommends the Lyman 515139 at 340 grains
The Dutchman leans more towards a 350 grain loading.
Most suggest Black Powder only.
Chambers and bore size is all over the board with regard to uniformity.
Many posts on this board and across the internet, with information on the loading.
The front sight on my rifle is too small and pointy.
You may have a neighbor trying to do the same as you. I am considering this mold; http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=51-320C-D.png

[RustyReel]

I think you are going to like the 12.7. I have a couple or three.

I started using 50/70 brass. One rifle required the brass to be trimmed to length as well as the base of the case and the rim to be reduced. Pretty easy, as I put a couple of wraps around a 1/2" drill bit in my variable speed hand held drill and spun the case. Emery cloth and files on the brass until it chambered, then on to the next. Brass was fireformed and then loaded, unsized, with 50/70 dies.

One rifle uses 50/70 brass as from the factory. No alteration required. So lesson is try the factory brass before trimming/altering.

Last rifle requires alterations similar to the first but I used the 500 Alaskan brass, mostly just so I could keep the brass/rifle combinations straight. The Alaskan brass requires quite a bit of trimming but otherwise worked fine.

I started with the Lee 50 cal molds but have only shot the 450 grain. PC and sized .510. No problem passing your milk jug test. Unique or real Black. Boolits are lubed as well as PC with the BP. Recently picked up a 515139 (here I think) and have cast a bunch but have not had a chance to get to the range.

My last trip to the range I did shoot boolits that I sized to .510 then PC'd which brought them up the .512. They shot a little better.

YMMV. Have fun.

[koger]

Buffalo bore has the correct brass in stock, I recently bought 50

[RustyReel]

Buffalo bore has the correct brass in stock, I recently bought 50

Must be all gone as I don't see it on their website. Is it truely correct brass with correct headstamp or reformed something. Just curious.

[Dutchman]

The best thing to do is borrow a .50-70 Gov't chamber reamer and do your rifle once and for all. In the long run you'll be ahead.

https://images20.fotki.com/v1666/photos/2/28344/3886627/127x44Re-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/v_am-1/127x44re.html)

https://images44.fotki.com/v802/photos/2/28344/3886627/003-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/v_am-1/003.html)

https://images45.fotki.com/v1636/photos/2/28344/3886627/002-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/v_am-1/002.html)

[enfield]

My situation is similar to RustyReel but Dutchman probably has the right idea ( one of mine was rechambered to 50-70 and another one accepts it with a little taken off the rim. the Lee 450 shoots very well , even out to 300-400 yards as long as you can master the rainbow like trajectory .

[koger]

Mine shoots great, I use the Lee 450 as mentioned above, and it will keep all 5 shots from a group touching at 100yds. I have mounted a peep sight to the action, and that helps.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Mine shoots well with 62gn Swiss No.2 and 425gn Lyman boolit

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/12744r.html

https://i.imgur.com/JsT2QGfl.jpg

[sharps4590]

enfield, is that a Morgan in your avatar?

[MOA]

Misery-Whip, we all have had different experiences with this particular caliber and chambering I'm sure.
So, here is my shortened version.
Got two of these from a dealer in Florida. Both in very good shape. Like you, I did lots of reading up on the history and whatever else I could find online about it on this site and a few others too.
1. all chambers are going to be slightly different.
2. chamber casting can be difficult in some due to the BP errosion in the throat area and a casting can stick due to the roughness and be hard to remove intact so as to give you any data as to correct dimensions.
3. I started right off the bat with the 50 Alaskan case. and then just started trimming bit by bit until my brass would load and the block would close tightly.
4. I then started working on the boolits, I started with two of the lee molds for the 50 cal in 450gr and 500gr. Had to get two sizing dies also, one a .510 and the other I think was a .505. I also picked up a mold for the 500 Linebaugh that was around the 390 gr area and I left it sized as is right out of the mold. Just put a gas check on it and loaded it over Black.
As you will find, these are easy to work with if you just take your time and work with the chamber, brass and the boolits. I used a couple of different lubes, but they were all made to be used with black and therefore contained no parafin base. I use a waxed milk carton disc for my over powder wad. Here are a few images of my setup.

Also, here is a tip, be sure to fire form your brass, be sure to use a good enough load of powder so you get full expansion at the mouth of your brass cause you want to use that blown out measurement as your starting point for what diameter boolit your going to stuff into the case, you might want to start with a thousands or so smaller than the mouth dimension. You can always use a softer alloy to get any slug up you need to fit the bore better, but you really need to have a boolit that you can chamber completely and the block closed and locked. Have fun, these old war horses are a hoot.

These images are in two posts due to the limitation of images set on this site.

The rough trimming from 50 Alaskan down to just above finished length.
https://i.postimg.cc/VkR8kBtp/20180329-174102.jpg (https://postimg.cc/bZsM6n39)

https://i.postimg.cc/VkR8kBtp/20180329-174102.jpg (https://postimg.cc/bZsM6n39)

The final trimming.

https://i.postimg.cc/gj2pCBfB/Photo0681.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/0QxPfNZv/Photo0679.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Bore sizing the boolit with a soft Remington golden ball.

https://i.postimg.cc/KvhS7srC/Photo0482.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/sXGq7pBV/Photo0484.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/vTRjzc95/Photo0485.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/5yLcdw1P/Photo0483.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The Black loaded under a waxed milk carton wad.

https://i.postimg.cc/HsXpDgxD/20190922_110759.jpg (https://postimg.cc/cr1qwPwX)

https://i.postimg.cc/1tbZ2C13/20190922_113236.jpg (https://postimg.cc/cg7j8cJp)

[MOA]

The rest.


Cast boolits I am using in my cartridges at this point and may change in the future as I try different weights and shapes and alloys along with sizing.

https://i.postimg.cc/sfWDLGFr/20180421-115047.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Sjyh2sNT)

https://i.postimg.cc/0NKLNm05/20180421-115200.jpg (https://postimg.cc/SXqZTnPH)

https://i.postimg.cc/m2rpDCbx/20180421-145318.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Z01xs9Bj)

https://i.postimg.cc/3JbSDNRk/20180421-145349.jpg (https://postimg.cc/TpgqzRnx)

https://i.postimg.cc/26mv9CNq/20190906-153329.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Y4nhhK9k)

https://i.postimg.cc/TP9M228F/20190922_102329.jpg (https://postimg.cc/GBHSqCmx)

https://i.postimg.cc/SNzB2fFW/20190922_102438.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gnmS1R0J)

https://i.postimg.cc/bwx4LYvr/20190922_102630.jpg (https://postimg.cc/RW0PZBKx)

https://i.postimg.cc/8kL3TPhH/20190922_113454.jpg (https://postimg.cc/nMcTkxSj)

https://i.postimg.cc/7hqNHDks/20190922_114906.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ftgdCGkm)

[MOA]

Oh yes, the fifles.

https://i.postimg.cc/yYg2HrqQ/TRANSFER-IMAGE-ABBc-145.jpg (https://postimg.cc/GHRXPKmG)

[corbinace]

Excellent write-up MOA.

I see you are using the Forster trimmer. The documentation says it only trims up to .460 cases. Is the standard cutter big enough to trim the .505+/- cases, or do they have a bigger cutter head?
Accurate case trimming has been a bugaboo for me. I would like to remedy that.

Thank you for your informative post and help.

[MOA]

Corbinace, you will note that the board has two Forester trimmers mounted. I had the "Original" from back in the eighties, and it was good for all of my needs until I got the black powder large calibers. I had to order the "Classic", it will handle the larger calibers AND it will hold the larger collets needed for the larger brass bases, and comes with the larger cutting head and handle the much longer cases that the " Original" will not handle like this one. You can see that the trimmer on the left has a much longer base than the one on the right.

https://i.postimg.cc/SR94pdPg/20190725_131916.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Pvd9WWTD)

[Tom Herman]

Holy crap, MOA!
What monster long round is that in your last picture?

-Tom

[Misery-Whip]

Wow. Thanks for all the help and pictures! Beautiful rifles, and more bullet designs available than I thought. I decided to wait a little longer, to gather more funds. But I definatly have the bug. Love to hang one over the mantle.

[MOA]

Holy crap, MOA!
What monster long round is that in your last picture?

-Tom

That's a 45-120 Tom. It's loaded with a 395 gr Postel

[Shawlerbrook]

Not trying to hijack, but also got the rolling block bug. Question on the pros and cons 12.7x44R vs. 8x58R as a shooter. I do have extensive reloading hardware.

[sharps4590]

How big of a hole do you want to make and do you want to load black? Really, they're completely different and different kinds of cartridges. One is as much fun as the other, IMO. I do not have 12.7 X 44R but there is several big bore BP cartridges in the toy box I've been shooting competitively and hunting with since the mid-80's. Well, I did stop shooting matches about 10 years ago. I do have an 8 X 58R roller. If I just want to grab a rifle and walk out to my range and rip off a few rounds I'm as likely to grab it as any other. To me the BP rounds required more development. The 8 X 58R requires more case work I believe, at least it did for me.

[MOA]

Shawlerbrook, it kind of depends on how much interest you have in working with black or smokeless really. Do you already load black. Is your roller going to be for hunting or just shooting? How much is you interest in original late 1800's rollers as to modern reproductions. Lots of old cartridge calibers chambered in modern metals nowadays.

Some 8X58RD's

https://i.postimg.cc/NjwDg0Yp/20180401_052627.jpg (https://postimg.cc/HVBXzdry)

The Swede 8X58 roller.

https://i.postimg.cc/1Xrrk5L6/Swede-rolling-blocks-042.jpg (https://postimg.cc/D4mGsFfy)