32 ACP crimp

[Battis]

I use the 32 S&W long Lee dies to load 32 ACP but I can't get the die to crimp. I use a 32 WSL expander die, which works fine, but how do you crimp the 32 ACP? Is a crimp even needed?

[Outpost75]

Some factory .32 ACP rounds are crimped, but not all are. RCBS .32 ACP dies produce a well-formed, roll crimp, if desired.

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It isn't necessary to do so as long as your seating die removes all mouth flare and bullets are seated tightly enough that they do not "telescope" back into the case if you grasp a loaded round in the shell holder and press firmly against a bathroom scale, maintaining 25 pounds of pressure for three seconds. Measure cartridge OAL before and after the "push" test. Maximum of 0.005" "creep" is allowed.

[Battis]

I think the 32 ACP cases are too short for the S&W Long dies, and I don't see a Lee 32 ACP crimp die available. I've been loading and shooting the rounds for a year or so with no problems, but, for some reason (too much time on my hands?) I started paying more attention to these rounds. I just loaded up a few without expanding the case mouth so the neck tension is tighter. I'll try the bathroom scale test - never heard of it but it's a great idea.

I just ordered a 32 acp seating die (with taper crimp) from Midway.

[Outpost75]

I think the 32 ACP cases are too short for the S&W Long dies, and I don't see a Lee 32 ACP crimp die available. I've been loading and shooting the rounds for a year or so with no problems, but, for some reason (too much time on my hands?) I started paying more attention to these rounds. I just loaded up a few without expanding the case mouth so the neck tension is tighter. I'll try the bathroom scale test - never heard of it but it's a great idea.

A push test is standard with military ammo. Early .32 ACP rounds had a deep knurl rolled into the case under the bullet base to prevent telescoping.

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[Jeff Michel]

I use an RCBS taper crimp die to good effect.

[trapper9260]

I use the Hornady dies for all my 32's and ACP and I am able to do a crimp on them .

[Battis]

Does the "push test" change with different calibers? Is the same amount of pressure used for, say, .45?

[Outpost75]

Does the "push test" change with different calibers? Is the same amount of pressure used for, say, .45?

Push test for commercial .45 ACP is 40 pounds and this is adequate for handgun use. Military loads which are sealed with Black Lucas will normally withstand 65 pounds, which was the WW2 standard based upon needs for the Thompson SMG.

For 9mm NATO ammunition instead bullet extraction force is measured and must be not less than 200 Newtons or 44.94 lbs.

[Battis]

If I didn't have OCD before, I have it now. I tested 7 of the 32 ACP rounds and 2 creeped inward too much. But, when I retested those two rounds, they didn't push in any further. So, basically, are the rounds that creep too much unsafe? What if they creep, then stop? Interesting test.
I'm using the Savage pistol's barrel (removed from pistol) as a guide, and I'm finding that I should pay more attention to the case length so they headspace correctly.

[Outpost75]

If I didn't have OCD before, I have it now. I tested 7 of the 32 ACP rounds and 2 creeped inward too much. But, when I retested those two rounds, they didn't push in any further. So, basically, are the rounds that creep too much unsafe? What if they creep, then stop? Interesting test. I'm using the Savage pistol's barrel (removed from pistol) as a guide, and I'm finding that I should pay more attention to the case length so they headspace correctly.

Purpose for the push test is because when bullets telescope deeper into the case, the increased seating depth increases load density and therefore pressure. I have not measured the effect in .32 ACP, but in M882 9mm NATO ammunition, breaking the Black Lucas sealant and seating the bullet only 0.03" deeper increased pressure from 38,000 to 62,000 psi, exceeding proof pressure, which is enough to destroy a pistol. The Speer manual contains specific warnings against this with respect to 9mm, which has been thoroughly documented. The .32 ACP less so, but in a tiny case used in blowback operated pistols, and loaded typically with fast-burning powders like Bullseye or TiteGroup it doesn't take much imagination to realize the consequences!

The .32 ACP is not a true rimless case, and headspaces on the semi-rim, rather than on the case mouth, so a heavier crimp is not going to be an issue in that respect.

In my .32 ACP reloads I seat bullets to the longest overall length which fits in the magazine box and which will "plunk" test and not impinge against the origin of rifling. Generally you want an overall cartridge length of 0.94" or longer so that cartridges are unable to shuffle in the magazine stack enough to cause "rimlock," the .32 ACP rim being 0.045" max thickness and max. cartridge OAL for FMJRN ammunition being 0.984" Using a flatnosed bullet like Accurate 31-084H a 0.945" OAL fits the magazine box length and profile nicely and it feeds in most pistols.

[Battis]

Great info. There's a whole other world in the details that I never know about.
I ordered a Lee 32ACP seater that should be here on 4/22.

[Battis]

I found an old post on another forum where the 32ACP is discussed. The poster said that European 32ACP brass (factory loaded ammo) is thicker (S&B, Pvri Partizan, Fiocchi, and Geco), so European 32ACP bullets measure .309", while American brass (Winchester, Remington, Aguila as well as other non-European brands like PMC) is thinner and the bullets measure .312". I have four 32ACP pistols and I've been sizing the bullets to the smallest bore of the four (.309"), with all the brass. The poster also said that the Savage headspaces on the case mouth and not the semi-rim. I do know that if a case is slightly longer, the case rim will not seat properly in my Savage, which means I should trim the case and/or use a heavy crimp. I'm also going to take a closer look at the brass thickness and manufacturers.
I'm going to cut a case in half and see where it headspaces.

[Mike Kerr]

Battis, I believe that if you delve deeply into the " case thickness" issue you will find that there is a whole lot of variation between manufacturer's specs as well as the differences between European standards and American standards. Notice I did not say ANSI standards because I am uncertain which US Mfgr's are at ANSI Minimums, Maximums, or in between. Like you I loaded 32 ACP for 4 pistols including an old Savage, 2 Kel Tecs, and a CZ 70. I found that the 32 ACP is fun to shoot but Not Easy to load for. Thanks to you and Outpost 75 I may someday reload for 32ACP again. It is the only caliber that I could not find the right balance between reliability, loading speed, safety, and product satisfaction. I was able to "Handload" ok but not "progressively reload" the caliber. Since time was of some importance a few years back I just decided to only use factory rounds. I had never seen a 32 ACP case knurled in the middle like Outpost 75 displayed in this thread but now I understand that the problem has been around for many moons. It makes me feel so much better.

[Outpost75]

If you are going to load for .32 ACP in quantity for several pistols, I highly recommend standardizing on Starline brass unless you can hoard a suitable quantity of RWS, or Fiocchi, which weigh the same and are similarly constructed.

[Battis]

I cut a case in half and sure enough, it headspaces on the semi-rim, though a full case, if too long, doesn't allow the rim to sit as it should. I trimmed 20 or so to the correct length, and they seat correctly. I also slugged the bore, something I probably did years ago but I forgot what it measured. It measures .312", which means the bullets that I was sizing to .309" are too small (but good for the Mauser, Meloir, and Ortgies). With the correct diameter bullet, I should get a better fit with the reloads. But the bottom line is that I can't get a crimp with the dies I have. I tried several - the .32 S&W, .32 WSL, .32-20 - I even tried an 8mm Lebel pistol die. I'll just wait for the .32ACP sizing die from Midway.

[Walks]

This thread came along in good time for me.
I'm about to load .32ACP for the first time in I can't remember when. Certainly not in this century. Have to check my RCBS die set to see if it has a taper crimp die/seater.

[Walks]

Just came in from checking out my RCBS 1990 .32ACP Die Set.
It is a roll crimp seater.
Sized & expanded a few cases, seated & crimped a few Lyman #311252 Cast of 50/50 #2/COWW and PC'd with Smokes J.D. Green. Sized .311dia
Seated to roll crimp just over the front driving band. Feeds from the magazine without issue.
Passed the plunk test.
Pushed the seated/crimped bullet into the side of the bench as hard as I could with one thumb. Didn't move.
Guess I'll load a couple boxes.
Have no idea when I'll get to shoot them.
I'm an "At Risk Person", My Wife won't let me out of the house.

[JM7.7x58]

Battis,

I’m in the same situation. I bought a set of RCBS dies on eBay for .32 long / .32 H&R Mag. I assumed that this set would deprime, size, expand, and crimp the 32 acp. Well you win some and you loose some. This set does most of those things, but it won’t crimp.

Tonight after dinner I was pondering this problem. I picked up a Lee .323” push through bullet sizing die, and held up a sized 32 acp case to it. I think that the tapered entrance to the sizer will put a nice taper crimp onto a 32 acp. I’ll report back tomorrow.

JM

[georgerkahn]

My answer to your question, "Is a crimp even needed?" I believe "sum-thin" needs be done to loaded cases to insure a uniform grip ("uniform grip = uniform accuracy") on your bullets as well as keeping them from moving even a smidgeon in your case before firing; and, not in any way "getting in the way" vis the cartridge move from the magazine to barrel before firing.
For me? I'm a 100% user of the Lee Factory Crimp Die. The URL for Lee's listing is: https://leeprecision.com/carbide-factory-crimp-die-32-s-w-lg.html if you wish to check it out. This is what I use/do.... BEST wishes from one who believes, for .32acp crimping, one may not be able to do better than this product! (I also use one on .25acp, and .380 loads)
geo

[Battis]

I read a review somewhere that said it didn't work on the 32ACP due to the case length, but if you have one, and it works, problem solved. I have the seating die on the way that should do the same thing. If the case headspaces on the semi-rim, then either a taper or rolled crimp will work.
I've been shooting the guns I have for awhile now, with no problems (that I knew of) but the increased pressure caused by a creeping bullet is now a concern for me. But I always load on the low end of the powder range, and apparently the bullets I've been using are undersized (for the Savage at least), so pressure probably wasn't a problem, but accuracy hasn't been that good. Interesting caliber.

[georgerkahn]

Battis -- I find it interesting that you have r259771ead, "I read a review somewhere that said it didn't work on the 32ACP due to the case length" as, in my experience, that case length is NOT in any way important in use of the Lee die is, imho, one of it's greatest features! I noted this on many larger calibers with roll crimps applied, as they grossly varied from case to case, dependent upon trimmed case length. With the Lee, a compression is done on case set by RELOADER (you!) irrespective of the (trimmed) case length.
Perhaps (I'm thinking?) the review writer did not have his or her die set correctly. I find it quite simple and fool-proof; the directions for use may be found at https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/RM3655.pdf
A short-cut photo is attached.
Good luck, regardless that which you elect to do.
geo

[Battis]

I have a Lee 32ACP seater die on the way that will crimp the case, and I ordered the Lee factory crimp die that you mentioned (Amazon - $16). Kinda like wearing a belt and suspenders. I even thought about removing the decapping pin from the S&W Long sizing die and running the loaded round into it.
I'll crimp those little buggers one way or the other.

[Battis]

In my collection of old ammo, I found a partial box of 32ACP and a partial box of 38-55 rounds. Notice the knurl (cool word) in the 38-55 case. I have no idea how old any of the rounds might be.

[JM7.7x58]

I made up a few dummy rounds tonight. I tried to crimp with the Lee push through sizer, it sorta worked. I ran it down about 1/16" past the rim. It did flattened out the flare, but it left a funny looking ring that wasn't even all the way around. Also the two rounds wouldn't pass the plunk test. So basically a failure.

I'm gonna order a Lee FCD.

JM

[Divil]

I too use the RCBS taper crimp die to good effect on cast boolits and Berrys plated bullets with this caliber.

[Battis]

I got the Lee .32ACP seating die from Midway today. It works great for crimping. I also have a Lee 32ACP factory crimp die on the way. I could have gone with either, but those Amazon points were adding up so what the heck.