Tumbling and lubing primed brass - yes - no?

[FISH4BUGS]

I have a few hundred primed military 308 brass that I broke down a few years ago.
I pulled the bullets and recycled the powder (I had just loaded them so I know what the powder was)
In this coronavirus thing I am spending LOTS of time in the casting/reloading stall.
I would like to load these but they are kind of tarnished and not shiny like I like them.
They are clean and ready to load, however.
Can i tumble them to shine them up? I use an old RCBS Vibratory Tumbler.
I know there are differing opinions about tumbling primed brass (or loaded ammo for that matter).
I am open to thoughts and ideas whether this is a good idea or not.
Has anyone done this and not blown up their tumbler?

[remy3424]

I would be more concerned about debris getting in to the primer and filling it along with the flash-hole. Just shoot them and do what you need to do after this firing. If they are clean, stop worring about it....thinking way too much about it, get them loaded and then get out and empty them with all the time you have now...then citrus clean and polish until you are happy!

[ioon44]

You could use some fine steel wool with a case spinner, if you just need to spend some time.

[FISH4BUGS]

I would be more concerned abound debris getting in to the primer and filling it along with the flash-hole. Just shoot them and do what you need to do after this firing. If they are clean, stop worring about it....thinking way too much about it, get them loaded and then get out and empty them with all the time you have now...then citrus clean and polish until you are happy!
OK...so let's explore that.
The cases are primed. I looked at the primer being used and it would have to be a VERY small piece of debris to get in the anvil (not that it couldn't happen), and the flash hole is already plugged by the primer.
I really don't see how it could get clogged.
Have you actually done this before and did it work for you?
Just trying to logically flesh this out.........:???:

[trebor44]

I have done this to very small amounts of cases. BUT I would just load and shoot them. if corroded, then do the steel wool if they are not deeply corroded. I was being pretty stupid when I tumbled primed cases!

[FISH4BUGS]

I have done this to very small amounts of cases. BUT I would just load and shoot them. if corroded, then do the steel wool if they are not deeply corroded. I was being pretty stupid when I tumbled primed cases!

So WHY were you being stupid? Did some of them misfire after reloading? Did some actually fire in the tumbler?
These are not corroded at all....just not shiny like I like them.
I am still on the fence about this.

[daengmei]

I have never tumbled brass. It isn't needed when the casings are clean.

[remy3424]

No I have not done it before, but I my little brain, it tells me that all the powder residue and bits of walnut shells will find their way into the primer and cause an issue. I can't imagine it will do anything that is a positve outcome to those primers. If therey aren't crimped-in," I will catch heck here on this", I would rather de-prime a few live primers and then reseat them, but that can be a little hard on primers and could be semi-dangerous. I have never had one go off de-priming live ones, not a practice I encourage or do often and wouldn't do if they are crimped, but have before, reseated them and shot them with no problem. I have had the anvils seperate after depriming. Seems to be no real good reason to tumble or de-prime them. As ioon44 says, spin them. Lee has a cheap attachment for a drill, that and some fine steel wool and you will have your bright shiny cases....that might get most a day behind you.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I wouldn't tumble primed brass.
I would de-prime them, then only use the primers for plinking purposes.

Years ago, I acquired a few hundred pcs of 30-06 brass that was primed, but it was stored in a basement in cotton cloth bags, and the brass had become quite tarnished and some spots of mold/mildew. I deprimed them, then tumbled them clean. This brass seemed to be new/never fired, so I FL sized them. Since I didn't "trust" the primers, partially due to storage conditions, as well as the potential cracking of primer compound during de-priming (my thoughts were more about brisance consistency, then total failure), So I put the old primers back in for "fireform" loads, so the brass would become gun specific. Then I would necksize only, for future loads.

[remy3424]

I am pretty content with "clean" brass, I do tumble rifle brass after full-length sizing to remove the case lube. I seem to have OCD issues on other things, but not my brass.

[bedbugbilly]

If there is no corrosion, why not just load them and shoot them - then you can deprive them, swage the primer pocket and make them nice and shiny. I understand that some people like hamburgers and some like prime rib . . . but they both get the job done as far as nutrition. Brass is brass and if it isn't corroded, then why take a chance on tumbling and getting a particle of the media where it could block the primer function? On the other hand, I have heard of those who have tumbled loaded cartridges with no issues . . . but that would be at your own risk. For years, I only washed brass in soap and water with citric acid added and then rinsed ewell - wasn't shiny but it worked just fine. I recently got a small tumbler and use stainless steel pins and wet tumble - yea . . . it makes them nice and shiny and pretty . . . . fut as Louis Sullivan said . . . "form follows function". If the cases are clean, they certainly won't hurt your rifle . . .nor you . . . after you shoot them, you'll have the remainder of the case life to keep them shiny. In the end, you have three options - 1. try tumbling them and you may or may not have a few that won't go off - 2. Load 'em and shoot them as they are and then polish them before the next reloading - or 3. punch out the existing primers, swage the primer pockets, polish, re-prime and load 'em up. Personally, I'd prefer to save the primers and shoot them as they are . . but that's me. Let us know which door you choose. Good luck and enjoy!

[rbuck351]

Load them, put them in your gun where you can't see them and pretend they are bright and shiny. Then shoot them for accuracy and compare to ones that were actually bright and shiny. Perfect time to see if shiny brass works any better than tarnished brass. IMHO bright and shiny brass looks good on the shelf but has no other function.

[JoeJames]

I kind of hate to admit this, but one time, and only one time, I tumbled fired brass with fired primers still intact and not de-primed. After bending my de-priming rod all to heck, and after having to salvage a rod from another die set I learned my lesson.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I think you could tumble them successfully, but if it was me I'd always have just little nagging thought as I fired each round, is this going to go off or not? And, if some of them don't, what have you got then? A loaded round with an indented primer--a dud. Much more dangerous to disassemble than just addressing the issue to begin with. Better, I think, to de-prime them and then tumble if appearance is of great importance to you. I have de-primed many loaded cases and have never had a primer fire on me, but it may be technique. I use a single stage press and apply slow, even pressure. I wouldn't perform the de-priming with sudden impact. The next thing that will come to mind, should you chose to de-prime, is "can I reuse the primers?" Same mental dilemma--maybe, and probably yes in most cases, but after reloading I'd always wonder when firing each round if it was going to go off. Ideally, I think I'd de-prime, trash the primers, and re-prime with new primers. Really, they aren't that expensive. You could just pop the primers.

[FISH4BUGS]

The brass is Cavim 90 & 91 MilSurp brass. I have already processed them properly, including the Dillon Swage.
I unfortunately overloaded them just a hair for my Windham, Maine Bushmaster, and to be safe, pulled the bullets and powder.
These are truly ready-to-load....just not too shiny.
RBUCK351 may well be right. It is only cosmetic.

[tommag]

I've had walnut shell stick in the flash hole of decapped brass. I'm sure yours would all fire, but might be a little inconsistent in lighting the powder. Me, I'd worry about shiny after firing them.

[Captain*Kirk]

No. Not worth the risk. Either fire the primers, decap and start over, or endure the tarnish for one firing. I've tumbled many cases in corncob media with fired primers in place and found media stuck under the anvils after decapping. There is also a small risk that one could detonate in the tumbler.

[gwpercle]

With all the extra time we all now have ...0000 steel wool will bring back the luster without the worry of grit in the flash hole .
Gives you something to do with your hands while watching The Match Game 74 ...

[M-Tecs]

Personally I would not tumble primed brass simply because of media getting stuck in the flash hole. On the other hand I have no problem with tumbling loaded ammo so loading them than tumbling is an option. I also have not problem shooting brass that is tarnished.

After reading this in 2008 http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/09/why-you-should-not-tumble-clean-loaded-ammo/ I did a very limited test. I tumbled a total of 18 M118LR 7.62 loaded cartridges. Tumble times were 2, 4, and 8 hours. Over the chrono and pulling down one cartridge to visually inspect I could not detect any change.

A little more here

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300510

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/602103723

[clum553946]

Why not hand polish them after you’ve loaded them?

[JimB..]

Wonder if you could seal up the cases by pressing the mouth into a piece of wax, tumble them, then use a pick to get the wax out.

Might be less effort to deprime them.

Or tumble them after loaded.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd load & shoot 'em.

If they don't look pretty enough, either hand polish them or wear dark glasses when you load 'em.

[lightman]

I have tumbled primed brass that was not loaded and I had a few misfires. I don't remember what grit corncob I was using but apparently some managed to work its way into the flash hole.

I have also dry tumbled loaded ammo with no problems. No unusual pressure signs, nothing different on the chronograph, no change in the group size or point of impact.

My advice is to load it and then tumble it.

Depriming it is always an option but you have the extra work.

[KYCaster]

I have tumbled primed brass that was not loaded and I had a few misfires. I don't remember what grit corncob I was using but apparently some managed to work its way into the flash hole.

I have also dry tumbled loaded ammo with no problems. No unusual pressure signs, nothing different on the chronograph, no change in the group size or point of impact.

My advice is to load it and then tumble it.

Depriming it is always an option but you have the extra work.


Same here, I had misfires and hang fires after tumbling primed brass.
I also tumbled 45ACP loaded with HP38 powder and found that velocity increased slightly and ES and SD tightened up some. Results were repeatable over several attempts.
Based on those experiments, I no longer do either.

Jerry

[Land Owner]

I acquired 10's of thousands of factory and handloaded rifle and pistol ammunition and ~100 thousand brass cases in many calibers from a competition reloader's estate (my bosses' father). Most of the brass cases, in storage for years, both loaded and unloaded, primed, deprimed, spent primer, and once new without primers, were corroded and/or tarnished.

In four walnut media Franklin Arsenal (2) and RCBS (2) tumblers I cleaned A.) loaded ammo, and B.) once new without primers, deprimed, and spent primed cases for weeks.

Not one loaded round discharged. Not one "shaken" round of loaded ammo misfired. I cannot speak to the accuracy of each round, before vs. after, but there was no dissatisfaction in this shooter in the "as-modified" rounds from shaking.

Non-loaded primed cases are NOT recommended for media tumbling. Tiny bits of media WILL clog some of the flash holes. Media dust WILL migrate into EVERY flash hole. Primed brass can be individually dipped, up to but not including the primer, in a 20% concentration (ymmv) of lemon juice and polished clean or 000 steel wooled.

My recommendations? Load those rounds and then tumble them. From personal experience, I believe the loaded round will be clean and unaffected...or...deprime and tumble. Depriming live primers, done with smooth and even strokes, is not "reactive".

How many Billions of WW2 ammo have traveled the world, been shaken by some of our Nation's finest, and STILL shoot to point of aim if we do our part behind the rifle or pistol? Some days you just gotta do what you gotta do.

[FISH4BUGS]

Thanks to all for the advice and sharing experiences.
I guess I just need to get over my desire for shiny new looking brass. I'm sure that thousands of dollars worth of therapy will take care of that. Maybe some trauma in my childhood is driving me to want new looking brass. :)
I'll load them then tumble them shiny.
Seems logical and reasonable.

[jonp]

I don't. My concern is that I use walnut media in a tumbler and I don't want a piece to get stuck in the primer.

[owejia]

Been tumbling loaded ammo {.223} in walnut media for several years, never had a round to go off accidently. Brass will come out looking like factory fresh. If using lead boolits the walnut media may dull the finish some. Have not tumbled loaded powdered coated boolits but media will probably dull the shine on it too.

[varmintpopper]

Carefully punch out the primers, Dispose of them properly. Tumble Your cases bright and shiny. reload with new primers and components.
You will have confidence in Your nice shiny ammo. The price of a couple hundred primers is not worth the risk of failure, "Next to life, Give Me sight"

Good Shooting

Lindy

[WILCO]

Chuck them in a Zip Trim.
Polish them with a green scotch brite.

Easy peasy.

[Wayne Smith]

not worth cleaning, unless you want to waste the time. Load and shoot. Much more fun!

[Scrounge]

OK...so let's explore that.
The cases are primed. I looked at the primer being used and it would have to be a VERY small piece of debris to get in the anvil (not that it couldn't happen), and the flash hole is already plugged by the primer.
I really don't see how it could get clogged.
Have you actually done this before and did it work for you?
Just trying to logically flesh this out.........:???:

I just got my first vibratory tumbler a few weeks ago. I've run exactly one batch of brass through it, a mix of 30-06 & .45acp. I've got at least a dozen shells, mostly 30-06, with bits of the corn cob media stuck in the flash hole. Several more with a cluster packed in there. This was a mixed batch of rounds some of which had been decapped, and some not. There are several of each with stuff in the flash hole. I do have other things to do right now that mean getting the bits out is going to have to wait a while. Think about this for a moment. There are two sides to the flash hole. The primer only plugs one of them. The media can get to one side if you're cleaning primed brass, both sides if unprimed/decapped. At least mine were fired brass. You're an adult, you can make your own choices and live with your own results, of course. Personally, I'd just shoot 'em, and then clean and reload.

[country gent]

You can load and tumble keeping the drum fuller than normal to save fall and banging. Shouldn't be a big issue. Or hit the pet store or section of grocery store, walmarts and pick up some coarse ground walnut or corn cobs. In a breezy day pour this slowly between 2 containers to remove fines. Treat as needed and use this the only dust will be what is produced tumbling. And being coarse enough it shouldnt plug flash holes. A gallon sized or 2 container should be enough. When this is done save this for a precleaner for really dirty brass.

To lube these cases a bath towel can be used with case lube. You might try a few cases in a towel with auto polish just work by hand a few hundred at a time.

[onelight]

not worth cleaning, unless you want to waste the time. Load and shoot. Much more fun!
Yup clean them next time.

[JoeJames]

RCBS decapping pins are usually $3.29.00 for five. I have two left to go. Bent one this weekend sizing and depriming 223 brass. Just a reminder that it is always good to have a few extras just in case.

[KenH]

Load them, put them in your gun where you can't see them and pretend they are bright and shiny. Then shoot them for accuracy and compare to ones that were actually bright and shiny. Perfect time to see if shiny brass works any better than tarnished brass. IMHO bright and shiny brass looks good on the shelf but has no other function.
This wins my vote!

[1hole]

I would be more concerned about debris getting in to the primer and filling it along with the flash-hole. Just shoot them and do what you need to do after this firing. If they are clean, stop worring about it....thinking way too much about it, get them loaded and then get out and empty them with all the time you have now...then citrus clean and polish until you are happy!

There's the proper answer. There's no way primed cases in a tumbler would detonate like a bomb but tumbling wouldn't accomplish anything of value anyway and there is indeed a small chance you could induce problems with plugged flash holes.

Men have been reloading brass cases since the mid 1800s, no one felt the need to shine cases like jewelry and doing so adds absolutely nothing to the quality of the ammo.

I'm a weak and well led gimmick sheep so I finally broke down and bought a vib tumbler a year or two after Lyman marketed the first ones in the mid-70s. It's on its third motor now and I still use it most of the time but I'm too old (i.e., experienced) to harbor delusions about the value of shiny stuff. I'm a gunner who reloads for accuracy, there's no way in deep south Florida I'd ever be concerned about dull brass or shine a single case by hand.

So ... just load it and shoot it. Then, if you really want glittery cases, tumble polish them without primers before you reload them.

[NoZombies]

I've known a few small commercial loaders, all of them tumbled their loaded ammo as a last step before packaging for sale. At least one of those guys had been doing it for over 20 years and who knows how many millions of rounds of ammo without incident. I've tumbled loaded ammo that had been sitting and had gotten a little corrosion beyond tarnish. I can't speak to the accuracy before/after, it was all destined for SMG's and I wanted to make sure it was corrosion free beforehand.

[mvintx]

I know, the OP was about just tumbling primed cases but some of the posts addressed other concerns. There is an exhaustive thread over on AR15.com about tumbling loaded ammo. You'll have to search for it but the Cliff notes version is loaded rounds were tumbled for a couple of hundred (or maybe more, I can't remember) hours. No powder degradation or rounds went off. I've always tumble my loaded ammo for 30 minutes to remove case sizing or bullet lube from cast boolits. Done it for almost 30 years now.

[Mike Kerr]

I guess anything could happen but in reality corn cob or walnut hull tumbling does not cause primer detonation. It just doesn't. BUT I don't tumble primed brass as a matter of reloading procedure - I just don't do it except in unusual circumstances like the OP has.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive done THOUSANDS of 223 buy lubing then sizing and priming and trimming with the Dillon trimmer first run. then I throw them in the tumbler and tumble for a couple hours to get the lube off then back in the case feeder and ran through the powder die and bullet seating. NEVER HAD EVEN ONE MISSFIRE. If by chance a kernel of walnut gets in the primer hole im sure the primer going off blows it out without any problem what so ever. Ive tumbled load ammo MANY times too without a single problem. Much to do about nothing if you ask me.

[Castaway]

I wouldn’t do it. Besides media collecting in the flash holes, I’d be concerned with the clanging around, the priming compound would be apt to be eroded and although may go bang when fired, would not offer consistent ignition.

[Lloyd Smale]

don't know but I do know ive shot some tiny groups with ammo loaded just like that and don't see flyers from it. Its every bit as consistant across my chronograph as my bolt action ammo loaded the other way. Like is said that's my experience with THOUSANDS of rounds. Now if someone actually saw a problem, had misfires doing it or had a bunch of unexplained flyers then im all ears but all ive seen so far are unsubstantiated opinions of what could have been. Now granted im not shooting bench rest comp where .001 inch of group size matters but my ars sure don't have problems shooting moa and in a couple of them near half that. I think if you were going to have problems with flash holes it would be more likely if you tumbled with the primer out and the cornel got stuck in the primer pockets side and had to be pushed through but if its stuck in the powder side it isn't going to effect ignition one bit. It probably is out so fast it doesn't hurt a thing. If that was a problem so would powder packing in the flash hole. Keep in mind that powder isn't all powder. Some of it is filler to control burn rates. but if you want to sit there with 2000 rounds of 556 and a pick cleaning out the pockets because you tumbled them without a primer in them then I guess its your time not mine. Me? id rather be shooting.

[georgerkahn]

I would have minimal, if any, worries vis dry tumbling primed brass. As a matter of fact, not too long ago I did same with some .38 S&W primed brass, in a Thumler's Tumbler for three hours, with zero ill effects.
However, you did inquire re, "or loaded ammo for that matter", and the after-effects of the Anglo-Zulu Wars in South Africa (11 January 1879 through 4 July 1879)come to mind. The Brits -- having Martini–Henry Mk I–IV rifles -- apparently pretty much ran out of ammo for these during their defense of countless Zulu warriors.260829 Always learning from their "errors of their ways", the Brit's vowed to not allow this paradigm to be repeated, and in addition to fortresses, all vehicles were stocked with as much ammo as could be contained. After vehicles were retired, the ammo was regulated for use, often in training, and a good many of the Martini-Henry's started blowing up. The explanation? The powder within the cartridges transport over many, many kilometers of rough, unpaved terrain caused it to be ground into a fine powder, making for pressures higher than the rifle receivers might withstand. Bear in mind this was black powder.
Nonetheless, I do keep the possible affects of vibration -- not excluding tumbling in a modern case cleaner -- in addition to storage at above-norm temperatures -- in mind re all cartridges.
geo