usable handgun range

[nikonuser]

just the semi redundant question about the usefulness of a handgun for the serious taking of game and defense against wild animals.

A person can get a rifle round chambered in a contender, but im simply focusing on standard pistol rounds like .357 magnum, 44special/magnum, 45 colt. But in standard loads of standard weight bullets at standard velocities.

160 to 200 grains at 1000 to 1100 fps for .357
200 to 260 for 44 special, yes elmer/skeeter loading data MAX
260 and under for 44 magnum at standard 44 magnum velocity
300 grain at N frame pressure and velocity for 45 colt

Im simply at the defensive shooter stage of working with a revolver. 6 inch .357 and 158 grain bullets. And after an unpleasant outing with friends turkey hunting that included a black bear that wasn't impressed with us until both of us did a mag dump at the same time with our shotguns, I started wondering about the usefulness of standard 158 grain 357 loads.

I really do want a new handgun that would be BETTER for bear defense, but also give the option of deer hunting with recoil sane loads.

[megasupermagnum]

The easy answer is to stop using the powder puff factory ammo. In your 6" 357 magnum, the cartridge is capable of 1500 fps with a 158 grain, 1400 with a 170-180 grain, and 1300 fps with a 200 grain, give or take. That is what you can do within the current SAMMI pressure spec with powders like H110, Lil' Gun, 300-MP, maybe 2400. Some of us even push that farther.

Or you can buy full power ammo from companies like Buffalo Bore, or Grizzly

[Ateam]

It seems you have a few questions here.
-A quality hand gun and cartridge will be adequate as far out as you can shoot it accurately/humanely for deer.
-If you have a bear problem, any handgun is a poor substitute if you have access to a long gun, and if you already have a shotgun in your hands I suggest you carry a few slugs in your pocket.
-I have no doubt a 158gswc doing 1500 will go clean through a black bear. Of course if you hit a big bone, all bets are off.

mega pretty well covered the ballistics, cast some up and work up to his specs slowly, and practice more

[Thumbcocker]

I have taken a fair number of deer with various .44 magnum loads over the years. I hunt with handgun and cross bow exclusively. I like to plink out to 200 yards or more. I would never take a shot at a critter at anywhere near that range. My longest deer kill is 65 yards. Most have been 50 or less. I have never shot a bear so I can not speak to that. I can say that if I knew that I was going to tangle with a bear I would not be armed with a handgun. 12 gauge full of 3" Breneke slugs probably and a friend also armed with the same maybe a group of friends. Actually if I thought I was going to tangle with a bear I would not be there. If I knew where I was going to die I wouldn't be there either. I have no real desire to kill a bear so it should not be an issue for me.

That said if I had to choose a handgun for bears I would go with one of my .44's that I shoot well and 265 rnfp or 300 grain boolits. I would not be at all concerned about expansion but would want to break bone to get to something important in said bear. I would choose a .44 because that is what I have the most experience with and a couple of them I shoot pretty darn well from a whole lot of range and field time. I shoot and hunt with handguns because I like handguns not because I expect to run into a bear. Megasupermagnum speaks the truth as to load potential.

[Dan Cash]

The easy answer is to stop using the powder puff factory ammo. In your 6" 357 magnum, the cartridge is capable of 1500 fps with a 158 grain, 1400 with a 170-180 grain, and 1300 fps with a 200 grain, give or take. That is what you can do within the current SAMMI pressure spec with powders like H110, Lil' Gun, 300-MP, maybe 2400. Some of us even push that farther.

Or you can buy full power ammo from companies like Buffalo Bore, or Grizzly

I agree that much factory ammo is under powered but to achieve the above stated velocities, you may expect a short life for your hand gun if they are used very much.

[popper]

mag dump at the same time with our shotguns - what are you using for turkey? Should have done the job easily with a turkey load (slug).

[megasupermagnum]

I agree that much factory ammo is under powered but to achieve the above stated velocities, you may expect a short life for your hand gun if they are used very much.

Well I wouldn't expect much of a life of a J frame, but something like a GP100 can live tens of thousands of rounds of full power ammo. It's not like you have to shoot full power every day either.

The thing you have to consider about slugs, is that it may not be legal in every state to carry them while turkey hunting. It is not in Minnesota. I doubt anyone would ever find a few in a pocket, but that's the way it is. On the flip side, you are generally allowed to carry a handgun. Plus it's possible he wasn't even using a cartridge shotgun for turkey hunting. Bows and muzzleloaders are gaining in popularity.

As for the effective range of a handgun. I can do some fairly impressive things on the range, but in the field I cap myself at 50 yards for hunting purposes. The 357 magnum cartridge is certainly capable of longer shots on medium size game like deer.

[Norske]

Deer are thin-skinned and light-boned. Black bear and wild pigs are not. Black bear aren't hard to kill, but a 357 handgun certainly isn't the firearm of choice. My bear rifle is a 45-70 and the emergency handgun is a SBH with 300 gr Lee cast bullets, chosen because of their wide flat nose.
As for really emergency bear protection, I'd choose the "Alaska load", a 12 gauge with birdshot in the chamber, exgtended magazine filled with slugs. If the birdshot doesn't change the bear's mind, the slugs can disable/dismember any bear according to our river fly fishing guide in Cooper's Landing, Alaska.

[White Oak]

I have killed a several deer with my 44 Mag Redhawk from 12 Yards up to 60ish yards with cast bullets weighing 265 to 290gr and they all passed thru.
Black Bears in other parts of the world must be a lot more aggressive than our Arkansas bears, but I would trust my load to handle one.

[MT Gianni]

I don't think it will matter much until you are shooting 250 + rounds a month at targets 50 yards or further. Second stage of practice is how fast you can get a gun out and shoot accurately at a target 15 yards out.

[megasupermagnum]

I have killed a several deer with my 44 Mag Redhawk from 12 Yards up to 60ish yards with cast bullets weighing 265 to 290gr and they all passed thru.
Black Bears in other parts of the world must be a lot more aggressive than our Arkansas bears, but I would trust my load to handle one.

No, they aren't here either. Black bears are likely the least aggressive predator on the planet. Other than stealing food, don't corner them and they are no concern. I think people get scared because they are curious, and sometimes come in for a look.

[ChristopherO]

Having lived in a slug only state for years I have made lasagna out of deer hearts with 12 gauge slugs and shredded lungs only to watch them run for 60 yards or so. If a deer doesn't think it is dead with a hunk of lead ripping through it I highly doubt an angry bruin will do the same. It will die, but what it might do to you first wouldn't be pretty. Don't count on a good outcome unless you bust the brain or sever the spinal cord, no matter what you are using. Even with the beloved 45/70 with a large flat nosed lead bullet/boolit, which we are now allowed to use, deer still run unless the spine is knocked out of place. This is from experience with thin skin animals. Take if for what it is worth, but aim for the head and neck to the best of your abilities if a bear charges.

[skeettx]

44 Mag, 240 grain with large meplat, at 1200 fps or more

Should do the trick if needed

Mike

[nikonuser]

to get caught with ammunition that DOESNT MEET state rules for turkey hunting, you loose any firearm on your person or in your possession at that moment, and you get charged 1800$ for any dead turkey in your possession or on your property plus you loose hunting privilege for 3 years. Plus you get the standard fine for "poaching".


Winchester lead free turkey loads aren't very impressive on turkeys, and the bear was 6' tall when he was standing on his hind legs growling and snapping them jaws at us.

[nikonuser]

I agree that much factory ammo is under powered but to achieve the above stated velocities, you may expect a short life for your hand gun if they are used very much.

ive done a bit of research on that velocity range "mega" put out and on those powders, it may be safe for the cylinder, but the phrase "flame cutting on top strap" is something that has me unconvinced on those powders.

the 170 to 200 grain loads in the alliant 2004 pdf are at what keith and skelton felt were IDEAL for black bear work. as close to 200 grains and as close to 1000fps as possible.

Im also interested in the recoil aspect of it all because if the 44 special loads can do as much or more penetration as the 357s but be easier to control recoil wise that's something to me

[Win94ae]

mag dump at the same time with our shotguns - what are you using for turkey? Should have done the job easily with a turkey load (slug).

This is what I was wondering.

[Texas by God]

I imagine shooting a bear with steel bird shot during Turkey season is a bit illegal as well. Non toxic shot for upland birds? Are you in California?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[megasupermagnum]

ive done a bit of research on that velocity range "mega" put out and on those powders, it may be safe for the cylinder, but the phrase "flame cutting on top strap" is something that has me unconvinced on those powders.

the 170 to 200 grain loads in the alliant 2004 pdf are at what keith and skelton felt were IDEAL for black bear work. as close to 200 grains and as close to 1000fps as possible.

Im also interested in the recoil aspect of it all because if the 44 special loads can do as much or more penetration as the 357s but be easier to control recoil wise that's something to me

Theoretically a 200 grain 357 magnum at 1000 fps should penetrate farther than a 200 grain 44 special at 1000 fps.

If comparing the same model, say GP100, the 44 special would also recoil more, as the gun is lighter. Also consider it is a 5 shot, while the same gun is a 6 shot 357 mag, and even offered as a 7 shot on a couple variants.

[PositiveCaster]

How about a reality check. In the past ten years there have been ten fatal black bear attacks in NA. All but two were in Canada or Alaska. Any attack by a black bear is extremely rare. https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-bear-attacks-humans-rare-begin-scuffles-dogs/story?id=65413852

But they do happen. I’ve been charged twice by brownies - both were false charges, but they included the obligatory popping of teeth, growling and posturing. No attacks, both left the scene. Two friends were actually attacked, both survived with injuries but their .44 and .454 revolvers did not prevent nor stop the attacks.

It is fine to be prepared and I would never suggest that a bear attack is impossible - but there is far more fear than substance. Everyone has an opinion on a firearm - especially those who have never seen an aggressive bear in the field - but even the .458 which a friend carried had no guarantee...


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[nikonuser]

weight of the 7 shot would be pretty much close to the 44 special version.

lipseyes 5" barrel 44spcl weighs 38 ounces while standard 3" barrel weighs ,

standard 6 shot 6" in .357 weighs 45 ounces. 3" 6 shot weighs 36ounces empty 5" weighs 43 ounces



Taurus model 66 7 shot 357 with 6" barrel is 40 ounces 4" barrel is 38 ounces 44 tracker with 4" barrel is 35 ounces

yes, either way there will be recoil. that's expected.

the old beartooth bullet data shows that the meplat is what counts as far as tissue damage goes, a 158 grain slug with .20 meplat at 1000fps will do the same damage as a 44 mag 300 grain slug with .20 meplat at 1000fps but the thinner diameter makes it more prone to deflection..

Its why im trying to get this figured out finally.

[nikonuser]

How about a reality check. In the past ten years there have been ten fatal black bear attacks in NA. All but two were in Canada or Alaska. Any attack by a black bear is extremely rare. https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-bear-attacks-humans-rare-begin-scuffles-dogs/story?id=65413852

But they do happen. I’ve been charged twice by brownies - both were false charges, but they included the obligatory popping of teeth, growling and posturing. No attacks, both left the scene. Two friends were actually attacked, both survived with injuries but their .44 and .454 revolvers did not prevent nor stop the attacks.

It is fine to be prepared and I would never suggest that a bear attack is impossible - but there is far more fear than substance. Everyone has an opinion on a firearm - especially those who have never seen an aggressive bear in the field - but even the .458 which a friend carried had no guarantee...


.


.

but a lot of people go handgun hunting for bear with 357, 44, and 45 caliber handguns. SO its something to be figured into things. Sure walking through the woods and getting jumped is a lot different then deciding to go AFTER the animal in question.

Have read that a 4" barrel on a 44 magnum using 240 grain bullet at 1200fps is a 75 yard elk gun. yet many people would tell me that a 18" .308 with 150 grain nosler partition is marginal at 75 yards. Who do I believe?

[megasupermagnum]

weight of the 7 shot would be pretty much close to the 44 special version.

lipseyes 5" barrel 44spcl weighs 38 ounces while standard 3" barrel weighs ,

standard 6 shot 6" in .357 weighs 45 ounces. 3" 6 shot weighs 36ounces empty 5" weighs 43 ounces



Taurus model 66 7 shot 357 with 6" barrel is 40 ounces 4" barrel is 38 ounces 44 tracker with 4" barrel is 35 ounces

yes, either way there will be recoil. that's expected.

the old beartooth bullet data shows that the meplat is what counts as far as tissue damage goes, a 158 grain slug with .20 meplat at 1000fps will do the same damage as a 44 mag 300 grain slug with .20 meplat at 1000fps but the thinner diameter makes it more prone to deflection..

Its why im trying to get this figured out finally.

In my opinion, this is splitting hairs. A flat nose bullet is fantastically good at penetration, especially in a straight line. Since you already own the 357, there is no reason to change. Of course if you want a new gun, get a new gun. Recoil will not be bad in either one.

Also, while concerning, bear snapping jaws is them showing fear, not aggression.

[dverna]

The preferred backup gun with the bear hunters I know in Michigan is the 10mm. Most bears are 200-300 lbs...largest 500 lbs. These guys run bears with dogs. Bears are shot at close range in trees or on the ground with rifles or shotguns. Pistols are for backup only.

Three guys hurt in last two years while pulling off dogs during training. Bear has never attacked if it can get away. YMMV

[megasupermagnum]

The preferred backup gun with the bear hunters I know in Michigan is the 10mm. Most bears are 200-300 lbs...largest 500 lbs. These guys run bears with dogs. Bears are shot at close range in trees or on the ground with rifles or shotguns. Pistols are for backup only.

Three guys hurt in last two years while pulling off dogs during training. Bear has never attacked if it can get away. YMMV

I think a that qualifies as a cornered animal, anything is dangerous in that situation. 10mm is the ballistic twin to 357 magnum.

[nikonuser]

The preferred backup gun with the bear hunters I know in Michigan is the 10mm. Most bears are 200-300 lbs...largest 500 lbs. These guys run bears with dogs. Bears are shot at close range in trees or on the ground with rifles or shotguns. Pistols are for backup only.

Three guys hurt in last two years while pulling off dogs during training. Bear has never attacked if it can get away. YMMV

Only know two bear hunters here in Michigan. The 60 year old uses a 12 ga. The 83 year old uses a crossbow, carries a victory model loaded with 38/200 ammo, and a grandson with a .300 win mag

[Norske]

Black bears are considered very aggressive by those who live where there are both black and brown(grizzly are brown bear) bears. I was first told of this on a fly fishing trip to Libby, MT, and it was repeated to us everywhere NW from Glacier Park to Alaska (where black bear are never trusted). Black bear aren't the top predator even in northern MN (that belongs to wolf packs), but when they compete with much bigger bear for food, they seem to hold a grudge according to those who live among them.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't trust wolves that much, but we have had one confirmed attack in our history. Black bears are an even smaller risk than that. All I'm saying is take precautions, but keep in mind the risk of a black bear intentionally attacking you is practically nil. Now deer, I've had a few of them look at me squirrely.

[Scrounge]

weight of the 7 shot would be pretty much close to the 44 special version.

lipseyes 5" barrel 44spcl weighs 38 ounces while standard 3" barrel weighs ,

standard 6 shot 6" in .357 weighs 45 ounces. 3" 6 shot weighs 36ounces empty 5" weighs 43 ounces



Taurus model 66 7 shot 357 with 6" barrel is 40 ounces 4" barrel is 38 ounces 44 tracker with 4" barrel is 35 ounces

yes, either way there will be recoil. that's expected.

the old beartooth bullet data shows that the meplat is what counts as far as tissue damage goes, a 158 grain slug with .20 meplat at 1000fps will do the same damage as a 44 mag 300 grain slug with .20 meplat at 1000fps but the thinner diameter makes it more prone to deflection..

Its why im trying to get this figured out finally.

I know squat about hunting bears of any sort. One of my step-fathers who was for a time a guide in Alaska told me about one of his hunters who was killed shooting a grizzly bear with a semi-auto 30-06. Dumped the magazine, reloaded, and dumped it again before the bear got to and killed him. Bear also died. SF saw it happening, not at all sure what he was doing or trying to do about it, if anything. I was about ten when he told this story, so may have lost details over the years. I'm just short of 65 now. Discussion of meplats triggered my interest, as I'd not heard or remembered that word in all the time I've been shooting or reading about it, but found this article that may be of interest: https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/The+Effects+Of+The+Meplat+On+Terminal+Ballistics.h tml

[sharps4590]

I think ChristopherO's post merits serious consideration. I was thinking the same thing while reading all the posts. When we lived there I used to fly fish in the tall and uncut of the Grays River drainage in western Wyoming. There was griz in the Grays. I carried a Freedom Arms Mod.97 in 45 Colt in a bandolier rig and it was loaded with 300 gr. hard cast at a chronographed 1100 fps. It was PLENTY in that small framed revolver but, I had no illusions of it being a stopper. Hopefully it would have been a discourager had I ever needed it. I honestly thank God I never had to find out. My point being, I much prefer a heavy bullet of large caliber.

Since moving back to Mo., I don't load anything near that hot though we do have black bear. I carry a 44 Spl. or 45 Colt with 240 or 255 gr. Keith trype SWC's loaded to 1000 fps, + or - Stopper...no. No handgun can be a stopper in the same sense as a heavy rifle. I hope I never, ever need to draw it but if I do, honestly the best one can hope is that it is a discourager....unless a fella gets lucky and disrupts the CNS.

[dverna]

I think a that qualifies as a cornered animal, anything is dangerous in that situation. 10mm is the ballistic twin to 357 magnum.

Agree with that. There is a bit of bravado involved as well...getting close enough to pull the dogs off...that was the case in all three cases guys got hurt. Not blaming the bear at all.

As to the 10mm...it may be no better than a 357....I do not know....but these guys are not target shooters...so a 15 shot magazine capacity gives them great comfort. Normally, they put two three into the head when the bear is downed.

[WinchesterM1]

I am a huge handgun hunter I mostly use a Ruger SBH with a 10” barrel with a lee 310 over a STIFF charge of H110 I can hit a 6x12 plate almost every shot at 100 yards.... will I kill a deer at 100... no 50 yes 75.... killed 2-3 at 75 but that’s my limit

This little yearling was at 48 yards
259744

[nikonuser]

I am a huge handgun hunter I mostly use a Ruger SBH with a 10” barrel with a lee 310 over a STIFF charge of H110 I can hit a 6x12 plate almost every shot at 100 yards.... will I kill a deer at 100... no 50 yes 75.... killed 2-3 at 75 but that’s my limit

This little yearling was at 48 yards
259744

I could have used my 17hmr at that range and had the same results, that load should be ample for a 1000 pound horse or a 600 pound moose at 100 yards if a 240 grain jhp/jsp at 1200 is considered good at 75 yards on moose

[gumbo333]

Geez guys, if you ever watched any of the old cowboy shows, the good ole 44/40 Winny could drop a griz at 100 yds, maybe a quarter of a mile. Windage and elevation.

[WinchesterM1]

Geez guys, if you ever watched any of the old cowboy shows, the good ole 44/40 Winny could drop a griz at 100 yds, maybe a quarter of a mile. Windage and elevation.


Well they also had unlimited ammo and no reloading time

[Norske]

They could also shoot the bad guy's revolver out of his hand, from the hip.

[1Papalote]

I would likely opt for a magazine extension(load slugs or buckshot up front)for my turkey gun and carry a 44 Special or 45 Colt. I would also practice drawing and placing shots on target. Worst thing we got here is hogs.

1Papalote

[megasupermagnum]

I would likely opt for a magazine extension(load slugs or buckshot up front)for my turkey gun and carry a 44 Special or 45 Colt. I would also practice drawing and placing shots on target. Worst thing we got here is hogs.

1Papalote

As has been said, any ammo not approved for turkey hunting found on your person is a big fine. I don't know what state the OP is in, but this likely means #4 or smaller birdshot. Buckshot or slugs would not be allowed. It seems a handgun is allowed.

[1Papalote]

Ok....so use an extended magazine with the largest shot allowed. I'm guessing that a rifle isn't allowed to hunt turkeys either? Glad to live where such restrictions do not exist.


1Papalote

[nikonuser]

Ok....so use an extended magazine with the largest shot allowed. I'm guessing that a rifle isn't allowed to hunt turkeys either? Glad to live where such restrictions do not exist.


1Papalote

IN Michigan the ONLY legal thing allowed to hunt turkey with is a shotgun or a bow and crossbows. possessing a rifle in any caliber will equate poaching on your part if the DNR finds you.

I can open carry a handgun for self defense in my state, so that's what im thinking. And why I tried asking this question but far to muc bologna popped up in it.

[Elpatoloco]

Deer are thin-skinned and light-boned. Black bear and wild pigs are not. Black bear aren't hard to kill, but a 357 handgun certainly isn't the firearm of choice. My bear rifle is a 45-70 and the emergency handgun is a SBH with 300 gr Lee cast bullets, chosen because of their wide flat nose.
As for really emergency bear protection, I'd choose the "Alaska load", a 12 gauge with birdshot in the chamber, exgtended magazine filled with slugs. If the birdshot doesn't change the bear's mind, the slugs can disable/dismember any bear according to our river fly fishing guide in Cooper's Landing, Alaska.

A hog is not any tougher than a deer. I have used 44-240,-swc rcbs on deer and hogs out to 100 yards. With that said, I wont set up for deer over 50. I'd hail mary at hogs from 3 miles with a bb gun if thats all I had on me.

[megasupermagnum]

IN Michigan the ONLY legal thing allowed to hunt turkey with is a shotgun or a bow and crossbows. possessing a rifle in any caliber will equate poaching on your part if the DNR finds you.

I can open carry a handgun for self defense in my state, so that's what im thinking. And why I tried asking this question but far to muc bologna popped up in it.

What more do you want? The 357 magnum you already own will do all that you want. The effective range for hunting with that gun could easily be 100 yards, although for most of us mortals, our accuracy limits us much closer. A 44 special will not gain you anything significant, and may be a downgrade. There are stronger rounds out there, but your specified recoil and performance standard of a 200 grain at 1000 fps puts the 357 magnum as the top of the heap.

[Norske]

My effective range is about 1/2 what it was 30 years ago.

[nikonuser]

What more do you want? The 357 magnum you already own will do all that you want. The effective range for hunting with that gun could easily be 100 yards, although for most of us mortals, our accuracy limits us much closer. A 44 special will not gain you anything significant, and may be a downgrade. There are stronger rounds out there, but your specified recoil and performance standard of a 200 grain at 1000 fps puts the 357 magnum as the top of the heap.

the internet itself puts 200 grains at 1000fps at muzzle as the "minimum" for hunting

[Texas by God]

just the semi redundant question about the usefulness of a handgun for the serious taking of game and defense against wild animals.

A person can get a rifle round chambered in a contender, but im simply focusing on standard pistol rounds like .357 magnum, 44special/magnum, 45 colt. But in standard loads of standard weight bullets at standard velocities.

160 to 200 grains at 1000 to 1100 fps for .357
200 to 260 for 44 special, yes elmer/skeeter loading data MAX
260 and under for 44 magnum at standard 44 magnum velocity
300 grain at N frame pressure and velocity for 45 colt

Im simply at the defensive shooter stage of working with a revolver. 6 inch .357 and 158 grain bullets. And after an unpleasant outing with friends turkey hunting that included a black bear that wasn't impressed with us until both of us did a mag dump at the same time with our shotguns, I started wondering about the usefulness of standard 158 grain 357 loads.

I really do want a new handgun that would be BETTER for bear defense, but also give the option of deer hunting with recoil sane loads.
Get a .41 magnum.

[1Papalote]

the internet itself puts 200 grains at 1000fps at muzzle as the "minimum" for hunting

This is getting silly like arguing with a stump.
Does your state set limits on HG performance as they do for shot size? If so , your answer may be there.
For protection, anything in addition to your #4s would be to your advantage.

1Papalote

[White Oak]

the internet itself puts 200 grains at 1000fps at muzzle as the "minimum" for hunting

You have a greater chance of being hospitalized or dying from a tick bite than a black bear attack.
“The internet” states the best way to avoid tick borne illness is to stay away from areas that have ticks. If you do this it will also solve the problem of a possible bear attack.

[white eagle]

If you are worried about your 357 get a 44 and practice with the magnum

[robinsroost]

A second vote for the .41 magnum. Mine is a Model 57 S&W, 4 inch, loaded with 210 grain WFNGC, tumble lubed with Lee liquid Alox, over max loads of H110......robin

[megasupermagnum]

A second vote for the .41 magnum. Mine is a Model 57 S&W, 4 inch, loaded with 210 grain WFNGC, tumble lubed with Lee liquid Alox, over max loads of H110......robin

That load would likely net you 1300-1400 fps. 41 magnum could certainly fit the bill, but a 200 or 210 grain bullet at 1000 fps would be a rather tame loading.

[Norske]

But for animals that may require broken bones to stop, momentum is a much better measure of effectiveness than kinetic energy. To convert, divide the KE by the velocity (both found in loading software or manuals) and take that value times 2.

[megasupermagnum]

But for animals that may require broken bones to stop, momentum is a much better measure of effectiveness than kinetic energy. To convert, divide the KE by the velocity (both found in loading software or manuals) and take that value times 2.

The OP specifies he wants a 200 grain bullet at 1000 fps, give or take. I don't care what caliber it comes out of, the energy and momentum is always the same if the the bullet weight and velocity is the same. All there is to argue is minuscule differences.

[curioushooter]

In your 6" 357 magnum, the cartridge is capable of 1500 fps with a 158 grain, 1400 with a 170-180 grain, and 1300 fps with a 200 grain, give or take. That is what you can do within the current SAMMI pressure spec with powders like H110, Lil' Gun, 300-MP, maybe 2400.

This is not what my chrono shows. I consistently load to 35Kpsi max loads with 300MP, the highest performance powder available for 357 magnum, and it gets about 200-330 FPS less than these velocities you list in my 5" S&W 686 with a .003" gap.

Reality is more like this: max load of 300MP with a 158 is ~1250 FPS, with a 180 it's about 1175. That's all 357 is capable of unless you are going over modern SAMMI spec or have a really long barrel. When you crank it all the way UP to 45K PSI or thereabouts loads, which I have done in my 357 Max contender, it does much better, giving velocities like you state. That is 10" of barrel, with no gap, and going about 20% over max.

Old max 357 (pre 1995) pushed a 158 about 1500 FPS from a 8"+ revolver, about 1400 from a 4-6". Most of the big game listed as being taken by 357 were taken with one of these long barreled N-frames using these extremely high pressure loads that could do real damage to more weakly constructed firearms. For comparison a 44 special N-frame can deliver more power and do it at much lower pressures and send a much larger bullet.

The best bear load you are going to get with a 357 mag is going to be a 170-225 grain cast solid (a Lyman 358429, various 180 grain designs or the lyman 358627) going around 1100-1200 FPS. These a penetration monster bullets with high SD. Will go through bone. Recoil will be tolerable. I have done a lot of gel testing and even shot bones. 36 caliber cast solids are good perpetrators for sure and do not need massive velocity to do it. They just need enough weight. The 358429 in 38+P is a formidable perpetrator...it goes through over 28" of gel block and I've tested it 5 times.

A much better choice would be to use a bigger bore...a.429 or .452...44 special+p/magnum or 45 colt +p. My S&W 624 with a 6.5" pipe puts a 429421, a 255 grain bullet, at 1100-1200 FPS easily from well established 44 +P load data. This will be an excellent penetrator as well with a larger hole in its wake. Ruger Blackhawks in 45 colt have well established performance that even surpasses this all with tolerable recoil.

[curioushooter]

You have a greater chance of being hospitalized or dying from a tick bite than a black bear attack.

This is probably true. I have relatives that have been repeatedly hospitalized from tick bites, and a friend who suffers from lyme disease, even experiencing a miscarriage likely caused by a tick of all things.

My wife has a relative (from Kentucky) that beat a black bear around the head so savagely with an empty whisky bottle it took off running. It seems to be about attitude with black bears. A stick wielded with the right attitude is more effective than a gun with the wrong attitude.