M1 Garand Clip: Loading Basics and Troubleshooting Tips

[M-Tecs]

https://gundigest.com/military-firearms/m1-garand-clip?fbclid=IwAR0t8gxomkS8TITBYrP1rYxj_6exmNR6JGmr bsGWFQY-cWgX_EfYbeYaa5Q

Nothing can cause the new Garand shooter more headaches than an intractable M1 Garand clip. Here’s how to load it and troubleshoot it.
Basics of the M1 Garand Clip
The M1 Garand clip is stamped steel. It holds 8 rounds of .30-06 Springfield (or .308 Win. for M1s so chambered). 5-round clips available, but the standard 8-rounder can be loaded with fewer rounds. The 5-rounder isn't necessary.

The clip is … not a magazine, for it does not completely enclose the cartridges. In fact, the Garand has a magazine, it’s integral to the receiver and receives the clip.

The last round fired ejects the clip. That creates that signature M1 Garand stripper clip sound characterized by a “ping” that alerts you it’s time to reload.


When you shove the clip down into the M1’s magazine, and then release pressure, the bolt grabs a cartridge and slams it into battery.

Myth: One claim is that you can load 8+1 into the Garand. You can’t do it.


Myth: The “ping” sound was not something that alerted enemy troops that a soldier’s rifle was empty. A Military Channel documentary spawned this cliché. It’s almost laughable to think the ping sound could be heard at distance among the thunderous roar of a firefight—or that a soldier would pop his head up and provide an easy target when his rifle ran dry.

Loading Garand Clips
There is a correct way to load the clip so that you don’t slam the bolt down on your thumb and earn the coveted “M1 Garand Thumb” Award.


Just make sure you use the side of your hand to keep the bolt retained while inserting the clip.

Here’s an excellent video on loading:



Troubleshooting
Seat all the rounds fully. If they're not, you'll have a dickens of a time inserting the clip.

From GarandGear.com:

“As a general rule you want the top round to be on the side of the clip with the indexed bump (Shown below). This positions the top round such that when right-handed shooters press the clip in the round is closer to the right hand. The clip can be loaded either way without issue.”

M1 Garand clip loading. Photo: Garandgear.com
M1 Garand clip loading. Photo: Garandgear.com
Additional causes of M1 Garand clip malfunction:

Excessive Parkerizing on the clip that causes binding (remove with abrasive paper)
Operating rod locked back fully (don’t touch!)
Op-rod correctly assembled
Inspect the slideway and follower for any burrs, and remove
Look for interference from the bullet guide
If clips don’t eject after last round you may have a weak or broken clip ejector

[2A-Jay]

I love Garand Rifles but hate M1 Thumb :Fire:

[M-Tecs]

I love Garand Rifles but hate M1 Thumb :Fire:

Never got bit by any of my Garands. I did get bit at Camp Perry with an M-14 in slow fire when the bolt stopped on the mag and not the bolt stop. I get bit hard enough that every shot bounced a drop of blood on by glasses. Since than even with the M-14 or M1A I hook the charging handle with my palm same as I do with the M1.

[Jack Stanley]

I never had a problem with the bolt or my thumb , that came from holding the clip of ammo all the way down until I was ready to move my hand ......... quickly out of the way .

Jack

[derek45]

I love Garand Rifles but hate M1 Thumb :Fire:

Sounds like a training issue.

The Garand will not bite you if you handle her correctly.

typically "M1 thumb" is from failing to lock the bolt fully rearward, goofing around with an empty rifle.

https://i.imgur.com/qcbUvbF.png

https://i.imgur.com/jI7KUie.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/La4m45q.jpg

[country gent]

There are several different clips for the Garand available [. the original 8 round, A 5 round, a 2 round and the sled clip this stands for single load enhancement device. 8,5, and 2 round all eject with the last round fired and are fir the number of rounds desired. The Sled locks in the gun and requires a bullets point, screw driver, or knife point to remove it locks in place. The sled clip allows for single loaded rounds to be chambered from the clip ( like an m14 m1a) pushing the round under the feed lip.

2 rounds can be loaded in the garand with the 8 rd clip takes a little practice but can be done cross the 2 rounds in the clip with it in riffle and push down until it seats. Ive never tried 5 rounds like this. In high power I used a lot of 8 round clips and a sled.

All of these are made from the 8 round clip with the bottom rails cut and reformed. The sled is made from 8 round clips but is a little different in that the top rail is reworked

[Thumbcocker]

I never had a problem with the bolt or my thumb , that came from holding the clip of ammo all the way down until I was ready to move my hand ......... quickly out of the way .

Jack

This has worked for me as well.

[M-Tecs]

How to lad and how not to load.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYSl_Ngt_gc

[Adam Helmer]

M-Tecs,

Excellent post. I got my first Garand in 1964 and fired it in rifle matches for many years. I never had an "M-1 Thumb" and those who did were merely slow learners. LOL. I finally shot my Garand onto my state high power rifle team and shot at Camp Perry in 1982 and 1984.

John Garand made a fine rifle, but I never understood why he went with that clip? The BAR, the M1903 and M1917 .30-06 arms in U.S. inventory at that time, used a magazine. If the M1 had had a magazine, a soldier could load one, 3 or 8 rounds and shoot. As issued, without the CLIP, a soldier only has a single shot Garand rifle! By 1936, the Mannlicher clip feed system was obsolete and not used by any other first line nation.

Adam

[AggieEE]

Adam Helmer, A story that I heard, and it has all the validity of any other unverified story, that supposedly Garand wanted to use the BAR mag but MacArthur, who was head of the armory at that time, thought that it would "Interfere with proper drill and ceremony." I do know that Garand wanted to use a 7mm cartridge and MacArthur said use the 30-06 since we have a warehouse full of ammo. But I always thought that the clip was from the gitgo.

[Adam Helmer]

Adam Helmer, A story that I heard, and it has all the validity of any other unverified story, that supposedly Garand wanted to use the BAR mag but MacArthur, who was head of the armory at that time, thought that it would "Interfere with proper drill and ceremony." I do know that Garand wanted to use a 7mm cartridge and MacArthur said use the 30-06 since we have a warehouse full of ammo. But I always thought that the clip was from the gitgo.

AggieEE,

Ok, so If Garand could not use the 20-round BAR magazine for his Garand, why did he NOT go with a flush magazine of 8 or 10 rounds which would not interfere with "drill and ceremony?" Only Italy, among the Axis nations, used the obsolete Mannlicher Clip system. John Garand was brilliant and dumb at the same time. He developed a fine rifle and adopted an OBSOLETE ammo feed system. How many trillion 8-round Garand clips were needlessly produced in WWII?

Adam

[charlie b]

You should probably say that McArthur was brilliant and dumb at the same time :) A trait that showed up many times throughout his career.

Maybe Browning came up with the clip expecting the Army to insist on a magazine since the clip was such a step backwards. Then he was surprised when the Army accepted it.

PS this one firearm was probably the reason why so many people refer to magazines as 'clips'.

[samari46]

One trick on some of the heavily phosphated en block clips is to oil the insides well and steel wool the insides as well. Then clean well to remove the oil and resulting crud. They will feed much easier. Same for the sks stripper clips. Except most of the time you can get the steel and brass brushes at Harbor Freight and use those. With the 5 round clips for the 303 British there are a lot of burrs where those round holes are. Brass gets all scratched up and I like shiney brass. With these I'll wrap some 400 grit silicone carbide paper around a small file and spritz some oil on the clip. removes the burrs on the sides, bottom and insides as well. Clean well. Funny how much they want for M1 clips now a days. Even the Enfield clips and sks clips as well. Years back everyone just threw them away. Frank

[Winger Ed.]

Myth: The “ping” sound was not something that alerted enemy troops that a soldier’s rifle was empty.

Of the couple of old GIs I've talked to who fought in the Pacific,
they said if there was a Jap. close enough to hear it---- they were already dead.

[country gent]

I believe the garand and its clip was genius at a time when it was truly needed. A rifle chambered in a solid caliber that was proven in battle to be effective. Heavy enough in weight to help control recoil and also for those times when a butt slap was needed. Exceptionally accurate and reliable in almost all conditions. And last the rifle did everything but load itself. No empty clip to remove partials could be ejected easily when desired. A solider with a bandoleer of ammo was very formidable. The other semi autos of the day had way more movements to load and change magazines. The garand was ahead of its time and a very fine rifle I dont see the clip as a hindrance or throw back reused, I see the system as ahead of its time in many ways. Something to consider is even the replacement (M14) had a stripper clip guide to charge partial mags on the receiver. Both the M14 and M16 had ammo issued in stripper clips with a Guide for the mags to fill them.

[fgd135]

If you ever get a chance to compete in a "rattle battle" match with an M1, you will find out how quickly and easily it can be reloaded and the target(s) re-acquired. The 8 round clip is genius. For it's time, it was a wondrous infantry weapon.

[tominboise]

The 8 round clip is also way cheaper to manufacture than a box mag, which has at least 4 distinct parts that must be made and then it has to be assembled.

[M-Tecs]

I love the M1 Garand. That being said I am in the camp that maintains the EnBlock clip is a elegant solution to a problem that didn't exist. It's not like BAR mags hadn't been around since 1918. This was a cost based decision.

[15meter]

Not only cost but complexity of clip vs. magazine and material availability during the war, it would be interesting to see the weight difference between a clip and an equal capacity full magazine.

How many extra loaded clips could a GI carry in the field as opposed to full magazines?

My best friend's dad walked most of Sicily and Italy carrying an M1, That was one of his most common comments was carrying the rifle and ammo was brutal. He never made it past 5'6" and during his service days was probably under 135 soaking wet.

During the war they were desperate for steel of any kind. They ran scrap drives for almost any material you can think of. There would be a lot more "antiques" around today if they hadn't been melted down to make tanks. Or M1 clips.

When they designed the M1 this may not have been part of the design criteria, but it certainly seemed to have worked well.

259890

Right down to instructions on how to best prepare the can for the war effort.

[Thumbcocker]

There was a Polish self loading rifle that was in the troop trials phase when Poland was over run. Forgotten weapons has a video on it. It was much simpler than the M1 operating system with fewer parts. What might have been.

[Adam Helmer]

15meter,

That Garand Clip was the PERFECT solution to a non-existent Problem. How many trillion soup cans WENT to make the clip that a magazine would have made unnecessary? How many TRILLION clips were used in WWII that would have been better used for planes, guns or whatever? Also, those clips NEEDED to be pretty specific to work in the Garand. The M1903 or BAR magazine would have freed up tons of iron for the war effort.

IF the Mannlicher Clip system was so great, why did it die out?

Adam

[Adam Helmer]

The 8 round clip is also way cheaper to manufacture than a box mag, which has at least 4 distinct parts that must be made and then it has to be assembled.

tom,

Do the Math. You do NOT make ONE Clip for each Garand, you need to make trillions of clips for every Garand and EACH MUST be tweeked to function in every Garand. I would swap "4 parts" to ensure a rifle functions than to make clips that must work in every rifle on the planet.

After WWII, the U.S. dropped many Garands to groups needing arms for various reasons. The biggest complaint was that CLIP for the Garand! No clip and all the .30-06 ammo in the world is only "fed" Single Shot into any Garand!

A Magazine would have rendered a better combat arm.

Adam

[derek45]

I'm surprised by all the enBloc hate.

Many years ago, I knew an old service rifle shooter, who was in the army when the transitioned from the Garand to the M14. He said nobody liked the M14 better. He said the magazines were clumsy, bulky, and you were in deep sheit if you lost one.

My young dumb *** said, yeah, but what about firepower.

He blasted thru 3 clips with lightning speed.

I was impressed.

I've owned a few M1A's but my CMP Garand is never for sale.

https://i.imgur.com/4GgqNhF.jpg

[M-Tecs]

It's not hate it's just understanding that the enBloc system had limitations. History has shown it was inferior to the box magazine system. If it was a superior system all modern military small arms would be using it. EnBlocs are now mostly just a footnote in history. I wonder why?

[dpoe001]

When i told my father i bought a Garand the first thing he said to me was Be careful loading it you don't want Garand thumb. Then i showed him my broken pinky (thought i missed some cosmelene after i put it back together).

[reivertom]

Everybody should get a dose of "M1 Thumb" at least once as an initiation to the Garand, and to make sure you don't do it again! It worked for me as a lad.

[reivertom]

15meter,

That Garand Clip was the PERFECT solution to a non-existent Problem. How many trillion soup cans WENT to make the clip that a magazine would have made unnecessary? How many TRILLION clips were used in WWII that would have been better used for planes, guns or whatever? Also, those clips NEEDED to be pretty specific to work in the Garand. The M1903 or BAR magazine would have freed up tons of iron for the war effort.

IF the Mannlicher Clip system was so great, why did it die out?

Adam

I tend to trust the opinion of old WW2 soldiers that actually used them like my Dad. He saw the advantage over a 03, even though he like the 03, the Garand was sought after if they weren't issued one. He was issued a M1 Carbine, and threw it away and got a Garand as soon as he could. This has been the story from several old friends that were GIs in the War. It was the best weapon at that time in history for a soldier, and nobody complained about it back then.

[M-Tecs]

A few vets fought in WWII, Korean and Vietnam. I don't know any that fought in all 3.

I have known and spoken with several that fought with the M1 in Korea and the M-14 in Vietnam. Of the ones that used both in combat to a man they preferred the M-14 for combat verse the M1.

Patton had great praise for the M1. Doesn't change the fact that history has proven the M1 with BAR mags like the Beretta BM 59 would have made the greatest battle rifle of WWII greater. Per General Patton it was the greatest battle implement ever devised, yet it was obsolete by the mid 50's.

I do know one Vietnam Vet. that had very little nice to say about the M1-D he used.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/16/pattons-garand-quotes-legitimate-approval-hype/

[tominboise]

tom,

Do the Math. You do NOT make ONE Clip for each Garand, you need to make trillions of clips for every Garand and EACH MUST be tweeked to function in every Garand. I would swap "4 parts" to ensure a rifle functions than to make clips that must work in every rifle on the planet.

After WWII, the U.S. dropped many Garands to groups needing arms for various reasons. The biggest complaint was that CLIP for the Garand! No clip and all the .30-06 ammo in the world is only "fed" Single Shot into any Garand!

A Magazine would have rendered a better combat arm.

Adam

Not sure what you mean by having to tweak each en bloc clip to function in every Garand. I have 7 Garands and several hundred en blocs and they all seem to work fine as is, mix and match. But I might be missing something. The standard ammo load in WWII was 10 en blocs in a cartridge belt and one or two bandoliers that carried 6 enblocs each. So with a full cartridge belt and two bandoliers would equal 176 rounds. Call it 180, which would equal 9 20 round box mags from a BAR. I do not know the cost nor weight of 22 enblocs versus 9 BAR mags. Would be interesting to find out.

[Adam Helmer]

tom,

Rather than tweek, perhaps exact would have been better. I meant to say the quality control to ensure the clips would work in all Garands had to have been a task.

If you look at the WWII British soldier, he did not carry 8 or10 box magazines. He had a box magazine in his SMLE and pouches or bandoleers of 5-round chargers.

Be Well.

Adam

[toot]

I love Garand Rifles but hate M1 Thumb :Fire:

keep your thumb out of the way, and you won't get one.

[tominboise]

tom,

Rather than tweek, perhaps exact would have been better. I meant to say the quality control to ensure the clips would work in all Garands had to have been a task.

If you look at the WWII British soldier, he did not carry 8 or10 box magazines. He had a box magazine in his SMLE and pouches or bandoleers of 5-round chargers.

Be Well.

Adam

OK, makes sense. Thanks!

[Nick Adams]

What's interesting to me is the input of real-world users of the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, et. al.

So I can highly recommend 'U.S. Infantry Weapons in Combat,' by Mark Goodwin (foreword by Scott Duff). The book is essentially a compilation of personal experiences with these weapons from the soldiers and Marines who actually used them in combat. You'll find much M1 love in their accounts, and not so much love for the little .30 Carbine. On any view Goodwin's book makes for insightful, 'in their own words' reading. Definitely something useful to do while you're sheltering in place as the Corvid cooties rage outside your door.

There's also the fact that starting from the point of bolt lock-back, I can reload my M1 Garand faster with a fresh 8-rd clip than the guy next to me can reload his M1A, AK-47, or in most cases his AR, with a fresh magazine.

I say 'in most cases' with the AR because while I've seen some guys who've drilled long enough to be able do fast mag changes, your average AR owner who's just a weekend range-plinker isn't one of them. [smilie=1:

For the M1A/AK/AR shooters, it's the extra step of having to physically extract the empty mag from their weapon before a new (loaded) one can be inserted; whereas for the Garand shooter, the M1's internal clip-ejection mechanism eliminates that step.

As far as speed goes, the real training point for M1 users - once you've mastered the technique of proper clip insertion - is to have a fresh clip quickly accessible or, better still, ready to be inserted into the open action, ... which is why you'll often see pictures of GIs from both WW2 and Korea with an 8-rd en bloc hanging on the sling of their M1s.

Even today you could do worse than an M1 Garand kept handy for personal defense or homestead protection, especially in rural areas.

And while there are no flies on the old mil-spec '06 ball ammo, a Garand chambered in .308/7.62 makes a lot of sense just from an ammunition-acquisition standpoint, whether you reload or not. I have two M1s in 7.62/.308, and both are super-shooters.

[M-Tecs]

Starting with a loaded rifle to fire 80 rounds the M-14 requires 3 reloads. The M1 requires 9.

[Adam Helmer]

Starting with a loaded rifle to fire 80 rounds the M-14 requires 3 reloads. The M1 requires 9.

M-Tecs,

Interesting Math Lesson! I own several M1s and had 3 Match M14s in the past when I shot on my state team at Perry. Someone in a prior post mentioned the "Rattle Battle" Match, which was my favorite match that we shot every month.

In that "mad minute" no one ever shot 60 rounds in that minute, but we tried. By my observation, starting with a loaded rifle, M1 or M14, when the targets appeared the M14 shooter had to make 2 magazine changes while the Garand guy had to load 7 clips. I preferred the M14.

Adam

[derek45]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK1OCvv9a5s

[Nick Adams]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK1OCvv9a5s

Yep, ... a mag-fed rifle will auto-eject itself at the darnedest time. [smilie=1:

Never seen an M1 do that.

They just run and run 'til you hear that 'ping' thing. :-D

[fgd135]

It's not hate it's just understanding that the enBloc system had limitations. History has shown it was inferior to the box magazine system. If it was a superior system all modern military small arms would be using it. EnBlocs are now mostly just a footnote in history. I wonder why?

I think you're looking at this with rose colored glasses, re: comparing the M1 rifle designed in the 1920's and 30's with the rifles (and magazines) that evolved as a result of WW2/Korean War combat. When it was introduced, it was brilliant. WW2 combat showed it to be lacking in magazine capacity, which was not foreseen in the pre-war era. Hence designs evolved.
You're comparing the 8 round clip to an external, removable magazine. Try a comparison by loading the enbloc 8 round clip into an M1 with 5-round Springfield 03, Mauser 98k, Enfield or Mosin stripper clips into their respective rifles. Better comparison. Steel, btw, or brass, were used for stripper clips, which were always discarded.

[country gent]

Something to put this in perspective. The Garands 8 round enbloc clip was way ahead of other systems for the average solider at the time which was the 5 round stripper clip. one reason for the mag in the bar was it slightly slowed the of fire removing and inserting saving barrels. Comparing the garand to what replaced it is apples to oranges. Even 308 and 223 was issued in 5 or 10 round stripper clips with a adapter to feed it into mags in the field.Damage or Lose the magazine or clip and any rifle becomes a single shot. The garand still had the follower and blind cut to aid single loading. Single loading a M14 with out the mag is a pain and tricky an AR is almost impossible with out the mag.
The biggest drawback to the enbloc clip was the training of the time. Troops were trained to eject a partial and fill before moving this left a lot of live ammo behind them. Garand ammo was issued in bandoleers in clips.

Compared to other troop rifles of the era, Patton hit the nail on the head. Best battle rifle produced. Ars have been converted or up graded to belt feed. Why not throw the belt feed weapons in also. While the enbloc clip requires precision manufacturing once the dies are running they just drop out of the press ready to go. The Ar and M14 mags come from the presses and need assembly and some welding to get a completed unit and just as much precision in manufacturing. These also require more machinery to make. 1 press to form the body one press for the follower and a press for the base plate then a spring winder for that.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Well my thoughts are I like the ejection of the clip , no button or lever just reach for the next en bloc , by the way my father fought in Korea with one , and he said its amazing how fast you can load them , he laughs at the people who talk about the ping noise telling anyone you are empty as his comment is before they can be up and coming at you you are ready to shoot again , Yes he liked the Bar also .

British had a 10 round rifle but it was bolt . was meant to be loaded from strippers , germans had a 5 round bolt , yes there were semi autos and full auto rifles on both sides but only the U.S. had made it the main battle rifle style , good rifles so are m-14 and ar 15 rifles .

[Thumbcocker]

Then there was the SVT 38 and 40

[fgd135]

AggieEE,

Only Italy, among the Axis nations, used the obsolete Mannlicher Clip system. John Garand was brilliant and dumb at the same time. He developed a fine rifle and adopted an OBSOLETE ammo feed system. How many trillion 8-round Garand clips were needlessly produced in WWII?

Adam

That Eye-talian Carcano, and the old Austrian Mannlichers, which, btw, were still in use in WW2 by Hungary, whatever their faults as bolt action battle rifles, loaded in an instant with Mannlicher clips. In fact, the Carcano clip, like the later Garand clip, could be loaded without worrying about which side of the clip was up or down. The real problem with the original Mannlicher clips was the need for them to eject out of the bottom of projecting single stack magazines, exposing the action to lots of dirt, and of course they were single-stack. The M1 avoided those problems by being double stacked, therefore more compact, and ejecting out de top of de gun. Not obsolete. A brilliant solution. Just superseded after WW2.
And how many trillions of M1 clips were "needlessly produced" in WW2? As opposed to 5 round stripper clips that everyone else used? I think, just enough--we did win, right?

[Bwana John]

It's not like 03 and M14 ammo came on stripper clips.... Oh wait, they did!

I can run a M14 a lot quicker using just the rifles stripper clip guide than I can emptying the magazine, taking the magazine out, putting a feeder clip on the magazinr, putting a stripper clip into the feeder clip(4X), then reinstating the magazine....

[Adam Helmer]

That Eye-talian Carcano, and the old Austrian Mannlichers, which, btw, were still in use in WW2 by Hungary, whatever their faults as bolt action battle rifles, loaded in an instant with Mannlicher clips. In fact, the Carcano clip, like the later Garand clip, could be loaded without worrying about which side of the clip was up or down. The real problem with the original Mannlicher clips was the need for them to eject out of the bottom of projecting single stack magazines, exposing the action to lots of dirt, and of course they were single-stack. The M1 avoided those problems by being double stacked, therefore more compact, and ejecting out de top of de gun. Not obsolete. A brilliant solution. Just superseded after WW2.
And how many trillions of M1 clips were "needlessly produced" in WW2? As opposed to 5 round stripper clips that everyone else used? I think, just enough--we did win, right?

fgd135,

You logic has "a fly in the ointment" regarding the Garand clip. You presuppose the soldier HAS a clip to "feed" his M1! No Clip = No semi-auto fire. The Soldier THEN has a Single Shot Rifle, aka Rork's Drift! LOL.

The REQUIRED Garand clip in NO way compares to any NEED FOR M14 or M1903 chargers. No chargers merely requires a soldier to hand load his ammo into a box magazine and the M14 is fully capable of sustained semi-auto fire. Where is the Garand guy with NO enbloc clip?

I rest my case. The Garand "Coulda, Shoulda" had a box magazine. The times were changing, but John Garand persisted with a complicated ammo feed system for an otherwise brilliant Rifle, I own many. No Garand Clip=a one-shooter! Meanwhile a M1903 rifleman could take ammo out of an M1919/M1917 MG belt to load his rifle and Had NO NEED of an enbloc Clip. WHEN did a Garand rifleman have NO need of that enbloc to use MG ammo for his rifle?

I had 3 Match M14s in the 1980s and shot on my state high power rifle team twice at Camp Perry. NEVER did I ever have or NEED or USE a 5-round stripper clip to keep my M14s "running". Could any Garand shooter say the same about the need for a clip? I guess we disagree about the "brilliant" enbloc clip. Maybe we differ on our understanding of what is brilliant. Be Well.

Adam

[FLINTNFIRE]

fgd135,

You logic has a "fly in the ointment" regarding the Garand clip. You presuppose the soldier HAS a clip to "feed" his M1! No Clip = No semi-auto fire. The Sodat has a Single Shot Rifle.

The REQUIRED Garand clip in NO way compares to M14 or M1903 chargers. No chargers merely requires a soldier to hand load his ammo into a box magazine and the M14 is fully capable of sustained semi-auto fire. Where is the Garand guy with NO enbloc clip?

I rest my case. The Garand "Coulda, Shoulda" had a box magazine. The times were changing, but John Garand persisted with a complicated ammo feed system for an otherwise brilliant Rifle, I own many. No Garand Clip=a one-shooter!

Adam

The same is true for your comparison , no magazine a single shot rifle , a stripper clip is no good then either .

It is a good system , is true magazines were already prevalent , but the design works and it worked good .

All this is nitpicking and second guessing , All this is a far cry from the original post and its intent , I myself always buy extras of all magazines /clips as I want lots of spares .

[Adam Helmer]

The same is true for your comparison , no magazine a single shot rifle , a stripper clip is no good then either .

It is a good system , is true magazines were already prevalent , but the design works and it worked good .

All this is nitpicking and second guessing , All this is a far cry from the original post and its intent , I myself always buy extras of all magazines /clips as I want lots of spares .

FLINTFIRE,

You make a strawman and then slay him regarding "no magazine" to bolster your weak argument. How does "no magazine" apply to a M1903 or M1917?

I prefer a magazine fed M1903, M1917 or M14 to an enbloc-dependent M1.

As for wandering from the "original post", I did not open this bidding, I am merely responding based on my experience to what others posted. Comprende?

Adam

[FLINTNFIRE]

Do you comprehend , your argument and your referring back to a bolt action is way away from anything to do with a en bloc or magazine rifle , why do you not go back to a winchester tube feed or better yet a trapdoor , strawman be dead .

[Ford SD]

How far off the ground would you have to lift a M14 off the ground to eject and load a new mag ... or you can rotate rifle

in fact the m1 Garand is better because the rifle... in a trench could be fired with the muzzle/ rifle closer to the ground

How far off the ground would you have to lift a M1 garand off the ground to eject ?

How about you thing of a enblock clip as a top load rifle mag that does not matter what end you put in first ?

If a M1 garand rifleman did not pick up empty enblocks .. it would be the same as a M14 rifleman not picking up empty magazines

[Texas by God]

I keep some clips around in case an M1 Garand shows up! Still waiting.....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[M-Tecs]

Having shot NRA High Power in prone the with both for years the top load verse both load is a non issue.

For it's day the Garand was a great battle rifle but it was obsolete by the mid 50's due to the en bloc.

The bottom line is how many en bloc are currently used by any of the worlds military? If the en bloc was truly a superior system why isn't it still in use?

[Adam Helmer]

Do you comprehend , your argument and your referring back to a bolt action is way away from anything to do with a en bloc or magazine rifle , why do you not go back to a winchester tube feed or better yet a trapdoor , strawman be dead .

FLINTFIRE,

I "referred back to a bolt action" BECAUSE the M1 Garand was adopted in 1936. Our Military inventory up until then included M1903, and M1917 bolt action rifles and M1918 BARs. All those Arms In Inventory USED Box Magazines. So, John Garand "Had a Clue" what worked feeding .30-06 ammunition for our Military arms. Why was there a "need" for a clumsy enbloc clip?

A box magazine rifle has NO need of ANY clip, stripper or enbloc. COMPRENDE???

Adam

[Adam Helmer]

How far off the ground would you have to lift a M14 off the ground to eject and load a new mag ... or you can rotate rifle

in fact the m1 Garand is better because the rifle... in a trench could be fired with the muzzle/ rifle closer to the ground

How far off the ground would you have to lift a M1 garand off the ground to eject ?

How about you thing of a enblock clip as a top load rifle mag that does not matter what end you put in first ?

If a M1 garand rifleman did not pick up empty enblocks .. it would be the same as a M14 rifleman not picking up empty magazines

Ford,

Are you a veteran or high power rifle shooter? An M14 rifleman NEVER had a need to pick up an empty magazine any more than a SMLE British soldier NEEDED to pick up a SMLE magazine. Strippers, or single loaded rounds, would load BOTH and the rifleman kept shooting. How would that WORK for the man with a Garand and NO enbloc clip???

Another "BRILLIANT" Enbloc clip observation debunked!

Adam

[M-Tecs]

FLINTFIRE,

I "referred back to a bolt action" BECAUSE the M1 Garand was adopted in 1936. Our Military inventory up until then included M1903, and M1917 bolt action rifles and M1918 BARs. All those Arms In Inventory USED Box Magazines. So, John Garand "Had a Clue" what worked feeding .30-06 ammunition for our Military arms. Why was there a "need" for a clumsy enbloc clip?

A box magazine rifle has NO need of ANY clip, stripper or enbloc. COMPRENDE???

Adam

It helps if everyone is using the same terms.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/box%20magazine

box magazine noun

Definition of box magazine
: a magazine for a repeating firearm which consists of a detachable metal box that fits into the receiver and from which the cartridges are fed into the chamber by the action of the piece

[Adam Helmer]

It helps if everyone is using the same terms.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/box%20magazine

box magazine noun

Definition of box magazine
: a magazine for a repeating firearm which consists of a detachable metal box that fits into the receiver and from which the cartridges are fed into the chamber by the action of the piece

M-Tecs,

OK Sir, I Stand corrected, I APOLOGIZE. Please PROPERLY Define the Magazine on the M1903 Springfield and M1917 Enfield Rifles. We must keep up apperances, eh, wot?

Adam

[M-Tecs]

M-Tecs,

OK Sir, I Stand corrected, I APOLOGIZE. Please PROPERLY Define the Magazine on the M1903 Springfield and M1917 Enfield Rifles. We must keep up apperances, eh, wot?

Adam

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2011/12/1/fast-reloads-for-internal-magazine-rifles/

Nearly all bolt-action-rifle shooters have reloaded guns without external, detachable box magazines. Internal-magazine rifles are more the rule than the exception in the hunting, target shooting and competition worlds. But, few outside of military circles have had to cram cartridges into their gun's action with completely numb fingers, in darkness or when needing to "get back on the gun" and shoot before being shot. Whether shooting one of these "old school" turnbolts in a tactical environment, up against dangerous game or simply on a timed course of fire, it is necessary to develop techniques to get rounds into the internal magazine as efficiently as possible.

[Adam Helmer]

M-Tecs,

So the ANSWER is WHAT? What is the PROPER descriptive ammo supply term for the ammo "bunker" on the bolt M1903 and M1917 rifles?

I want an answer and not a paragraph of 'fluff." Like the old saying goes, "Please give me the Time, and do tell me how to build a clock."

Adam

[FLINTNFIRE]

FLINTFIRE,

I "referred back to a bolt action" BECAUSE the M1 Garand was adopted in 1936. Our Military inventory up until then included M1903, and M1917 bolt action rifles and M1918 BARs. All those Arms In Inventory USED Box Magazines. So, John Garand "Had a Clue" what worked feeding .30-06 ammunition for our Military arms. Why was there a "need" for a clumsy enbloc clip?

A box magazine rifle has NO need of ANY clip, stripper or enbloc. COMPRENDE???

Adam

Once again do you Comprehend , John Garand was not making a stripper clip for a box magazine and the 1918 took a detachable magazine as does the m-14 you like to think you are the last word and a expert , but you show your misunderstanding .

I will take the word of men I know and knew who used them in combat , that there was nothing wrong with the en bloc in the M1 Garand rifle , over someone who shot on a range with one .

Hey what , you english or hispanic , seem to slip in with words that have no bearing , and appearances is something for snobs .

I do know what the U.S. military had in inventory at the time and for a long time after , still had 30-40 krag to , I suppose you would have preferred its magazine top up feature over a en bloc .

[M-Tecs]

M-Tecs,

So the ANSWER is WHAT? What is the PROPER descriptive ammo supply term for the ammo "bunker" on the bolt M1903 and M1917 rifles?

Adam

Internal Magazine or simply magazine.

[fgd135]

fgd135,

You presuppose the soldier HAS a clip to "feed" his M1! No Clip = No semi-auto fire.
adam

Regardless of your statement, the facts are that there weren't shortages of m1 clips while the rifle was in service. It was planned that way, ergo, "Oh, let's package M1 ammo in LOADED CLIPS. Otherwise these poorr GI's would have nothing but single loaders, just like Rourke's Drift"(crying and whining sounds).
Yes, there were documented occurrences when units were issued .30-06 in 5 rd chargers, probbly for BAR's, along with wooden cases of empty M1 clips, and had to detail a couple of soldiers in the unit to fill em up. But the problem you imagine just didn't exist. The military packed the ammo in bandoliers, ready to load. ( C'mon, we've all seen "Battleground".) M1 carbine ammo, 7.62 NATO, and 5.56 is packed in bandoliers, too, on stripper clips, requiring another step or two to load into detachable magazines. But that is immaterial to the discussion.
So, a moot point. Once again, you're using your limited highpower competition experiences to judge a brilliant pre WW2 battle rifle.
Btw, I seem to remember the Brits won that engagement at Rourke's Drift.

[country gent]

One other point in comparing the garand to BARS and M14 mags. the Garand was a SEMI AUTOMATIC rifle only. The M14 and BAR were SELECTIVE FIRE rifles capable of full auto fire at rates of around 600 rds per minute. Hence the need for more capacity.

I have had firing positions on a couple ranges where I did have to adjust my position to keep the M1A's mag off the ground slightly.

[Ford SD]

the enblock for the m1 garand is 1 pc

the m14 Mag is made up of

2 sides
spring
follower
bottom plate = 5 pcs .....and Has to be assembled and welded ... and yes holds more rounds

[FLINTNFIRE]

Just bought some more en blocs and cardboards to go in bandoleers , a few years ago you could still buy drums of new en blocs if you wanted to , do not see a lot of stripper clips for some rifle / caliber combinations .

I do have strippers for enfields , mausers , springfields , and sks and I have single round loaded them , and have shot garands same way with or without a en bloc .

Also have 2 boxes of 20 round ar 15 magazines , got them from the used and abused in service , some marked bad do not use , a little cleaning and guess what as good as new .

Bought my first 1917 a remington in 1979 , just as issued and a 1918 barrel , just a few years ago I had a winchester with a johnson automatics barrel as rebuilt never issued during WW2 , had a friend had a johnson automatic , interesting it was , have a hakim to and several 1903 and 1903a3 , and a M-14 , so I have used them all and they all have drawbacks and or positive things about each .

Back to the clip loading original post thank you for posting , have a good day.

[M-Tecs]

The 14 Mag is body is one piece not two. It is spot welded on the seam in the front.

The claim that it a M1 Garand detachable magazine used too much material or the assembly took too much time doesn't hold water.

The M1 Garand went into service in 1936 with a total of 5,468,772 built. It was designed and adopted in a non war time situation. No time or material constraints during the design or adoption phase. They had been building BAR mags since 1918 so not a technology issue.

The M1 Carbine went into service in 1942 with a total of 6,121,309 built. It was designed and adopted in a war time situation. We had not entered the war in 1940, however, the US entering the war was almost a certainty. The material or assembly for a detachable magazine in the carbine was not an issue.

[Adam Helmer]

M-Tecs,

I see you were the OP for this thread. If you read post #9 you will see my original thesis in which I PROPERLY spoke of "Magazine" and opined it was too bad the Garand did not have one.

Opinions vary, but the clip issue was raised many times by various indigenous groups in the past. I like the Garand, own too many, and know it would have been a better arm with a MAGAZINE!

The clip is the Archilles Heel of a fine rifle. The G43, Tokarev 40 and the Ljungman M42 had magazines. Why not a CLIP? Let us agree to disagree. Be Well.
Adam

[M-Tecs]

M-Tecs,

I see you were the OP for this thread. If you read post #9 you will see my original thesis in which I PROPERLY spoke of "Magazine" and opined it was too bad the Garand did not have one.

Opinions vary, but the clip issue was raised many times by various indigenous groups in the past. I like the Garand, own too many, and know it would have been a better arm with a MAGAZINE!

The clip is the Archilles Heel of a fine rifle. The G43, Tokarev 40 and the Ljungman M42 had magazines. Why not a CLIP? Let us agree to disagree. Be Well.
Adam


The actual description of the M1 Garand Rifle is "internal magazine that accepts an 8-round en-bloc clip".

https://www.thoughtco.com/world-war-ii-m1-garand-2361245

Magazine & Action
While Garand was designing the M1, Army Ordnance demanded that the new rifle possess a fixed, non-protruding magazine. It was their fear that a detachable magazine would be quickly lost by US soldiers in the field and would make the weapon more susceptible to jamming due to dirt and debris. With this requirement in mind, John Pedersen created an "en bloc" clip system that permitted the ammunition to be loaded into the rifle's fixed magazine. Originally the magazine was meant to hold ten .276 rounds, however, when the change was made to .30-06, the capacity was reduced to eight.

[Adam Helmer]

M-Tecs,

Thanks for the government verbiage. A clip is still a clip even if it is in government nomenclature "an internal magazine that accepts an 8-round en-bloc clip." What does the clip look like for the G-43, Tokarev 40 or Swedish M42?? WITHOUT the Garand clip, what is the rate of fire? ALA Rorke's Drift comes to mind....

Numerous people we dropped Garands to in their quest for freedom in the past were angry the Garand was so dependent on that clip. What were the guerillas to do? Police up the scene of their ambush so they could reload clips to set up another ambush? Not all ammo we dropped was in clips. Much was in MG belts that could only be used in Garands WITH the clips! IF the Garand had had a MAGAZINE like the G43, all they had to do was load and lock. I laughed about the Ordnance concern magazines "would be quickly lost." Did the Brits "quickly lose" their SMLE Magazines in WWI or WWII?

I am tired of beating a dead horse to death trying to convince folks who listened to too much veteran BS. The stories get better as time passes. I worked with indigenous people and heard their concerns about Garand clips. Take it or leave it.

Adam

[Stewbaby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200430/ebcdefb32a68dd025d9c3872251375b0.jpg

[FLINTNFIRE]

I heard veterans talk and it did not get better with time , indigenous people , thats nice look up the joke that goes with thats nice .

Veterans b.s. I can only say that sounds like the B.S. it is, I am not sure what veteran b.s. is and none I was around were full of any of that and I never heard veterans bemoan the fact it used a 8 round en bloc , may not have had what you want , but it worked for them .

Had a uncle I detested on my mothers side that blathered on about indigenous people , he was with a alphabet agency , really did not care as he was only about doing whatever the state department in charge at the time wanted done , treated his own dad like he treated other people as he stirred up hate and discontent around the globe .

Back to the subject at hand , it may have been a outdated system but it was a handy system and it worked , I remember when m-14 mags were really high priced , and I bet a en bloc was cheap to make .

Convert it to a bm-59 , but I will keep mine the way it is , but I like the 20 round mags in my ar15 , do not stick down to far and 20 will work till I reload , have 30 round mags , still prefer the 20.

[Adam Helmer]

FLINTNFIRE,

PEACE! I do not need to "look up a joke" about indigenous people, so you can keep that for yourself. I had 7 uncles in WWII; two were Marines and they all had opinions about the Garand.

I find it interesting you mentioned the Italian BM-59. Since the Italians used the Mannlicher CLIP System with the adoption of their Model 1891, 6.5MM, DID you notice after WWII, when we offered them the Garand, they did not stay with the CLIP, but went to a BOX MAGAZINE?

I rest my case. Let us agree to disagree. Be Well.

Adam

[Martin Luber]

Got bit once and not from misoperation but from the requirements for single loading. Bolt was back but not securly latched. It slammed shut with the lightest effort at inserting a single round. Had that souvenir thumb for about 6 months...

[FLINTNFIRE]

Adam Helmer Peace to , the joke was not about people it is the phrase , I to had uncles in WW2 , 2 of them and a grandfather .

My father and a 2 uncles served in Korea some were Marines some were Army , the Italians did there update and the U.S. made the m-14 and then moved right on to the AR15 , they all work , I rest my defense also , agreed to disagree .

[M-Tecs]

The M1 Garand's place in history.

It was designed in the mid 30's, it was clearly the superior rifle in general use in WWII and by the mid 50 it's was obsolete as a main battle rifle for a major military. Just like the Colt 1873 it would not be my first choice heading into combat but that doesn't mean they are not still highly effective.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Hey I like my 1873 revolvers and lever action , but true about wanting something more up to date for some things , still they and the M1 are good for some things .

[Adam Helmer]

Hey I like my 1873 revolvers and lever action , but true about wanting something more up to date for some things , still they and the M1 are good for some things .

FLINTNFIRE,

I agree with you! MY SA revolvers in .45 Colt, 44M, and 41M will seal the deal, in case of need. I do not plan to MISS with the First shot! One more thing: In a gun fight, a SECOND handgun IS the Quickest Reload. SO, have TWO M1873s and done deal...

Adam

[FLINTNFIRE]

FLINTNFIRE,

I agree with you! MY SA revolvers in .45 Colt, 44M, and 41M will seal the deal, in case of need. I do not plan to MISS with the First shot! One more thing: In a gun fight, a SECOND handgun IS the Quickest Reload. SO, have TWO M1873s and done deal...

Adam

Hey , I agree , bought 3 45 Colt and a 357 and a 32-20 , love them , all copies of colts . Had 2 blackhawks in 45 Colt but the oldest son did not want a 1873 , he had to have the blackhawk .

Funny though he does not like the ruger only loads , and he shoots the loads for the 1873 revolvers , have a good day .

[shooterg]

Love all 13 of my Garands . Love that shortening the gas system and adding the box mag saved us from using the gawdawful ugly brass eating FN/FAL type rifle ! Until we went to evil black rifles....

[charlie b]

First, I would much rather have a detachable box magazine (DBM). Just more convenient to me.

Saying a Garand is worthless without the clips and then saying an M14 is great cause it has a DBM is a poor argument. If you don't have a DBM then the M14 is just as 'worthless' as a Garand.

Note: One of the arguments made for the clip in the Garand is because a GI would 'lose' or not pick up the DBM's during battle, leaving him with a single shot rifle. This has been proven wrong over the years but was a consideration back in the procurement.

So, was the Garand design perfect? Not by a long shot. But, it was leaps and bounds better than anything else in the world for most of WWII.

Would I take an M14 over a Garand? Yes. If it had not been used by my father-in-law, I'd even trade my Garand for an M14/M1A.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I'm going to say, Thank You, Charlie b for refreshing this thread. It's 4 months old, and somehow I missed it when it was then current. I've spent about 45 minutes closely reading it from start to finish, and enjoyed it all.

I love M1 Garands and M14s. After reading all (currently) 4 pages of posts I'll just make a few observations and no arguments.

To start, I was surprised that it went all the way to Post #60 to mention the Italian BM-59 family of rifles. If you think about the en-bloc M1 and the magazine M14, the BM-59 was a logical step in evolution, and the only real advantage that the M14 has over the BM-59 is a better, more compact gas system.

There's been lots of discussion about the en-bloc clips and having to load them, how to load them, and what if you ran out. I carried an M1 for many a mile in the Infantry, and they did become very heavy, as did the ammo load. At some point after their development and issue, the en-block clips had to be loaded a certain way. If I recall correctly it was with the top round to the left to prevent a 5th round stoppage, but this problem was solved fairly early on and thereafter they could be loaded with the top round on either side and function reliably.
We never ran out of them, and never had to hand load the clips.

Something that no one has mentioned is that the M1 has a clip release on the left side. If you've partially expended the clip and there's a lull and you want to fully charge the rifle you can place your right hand over the action, push back on the operating handle with the knife edge of your little finger, and reach over the top with your thumb and push the release. The clip with it's partial contents will eject upward but be prevented from flying all over by the presence of your hand. Reload with a fresh clip. If your hand isn't big enough you can use your left thumb to push the release.

I've got one M1 that has a bent clip ejection spring. This is a neat thing at the range, because after the last round is fired the clip pops up and just sits there waiting to be plucked out with the fingers and placed in the pocket, instead of disappearing into the tall grass or annoying a shooter a couple of benches away. I've purchased a couple of springs in anticipation of possible future need, but have never replaced this one.

When the M14 went to Viet Nam (I did not) I was surprised at its short life span. I think replacing it in U.S. Military service was a big mistake, and after that conflict I think it should have again become standard. I'm sure that it would have been replaced by now just in the course of things, but the M16 might not have been the route that was followed and we might have something quite different today. It was a real travesty that (slap me down if I'm wrong but I think it was Bill Clinton) the government cut them up instead of selling them to the public. After all, we paid for them, and someone had come up with a method of permanently converting them to semi-auto only. I've also read (again, slap if merited) that one of the deciding factors in issuing a 5.56mm weapon was that the massive drafts of the Viet Nam war brought many into the military that had never fired a weapon in their life, and that it was easier for them to master a .22 cal. than a .30 cal. weapon. Today, and for years now, the military continues to search for an advanced replacement weapon, and the proposed replacements are never .22, always something larger.

Myself, now age 78, find the wonderful rifles of my youth, the M1 and M14 to have grown no lighter to carry. I'm looking elsewhere, at a stainless Mini-30, but the operating system of the rifle remains much the same.

Also, I haven't read an exact description of how I was trained to load the rifle to avoid "M1 Thumb", which was to push the operating rod handle rearward until it locked back. Then insert the clip with right hand, and using the knife edge of the little finger of the right hand (lefties had another technique) to control the release of the op rod while pushing the clip home with the thumb. Depending on the amount of wear to the lock mechanism the bolt may or may not release while you are performing this operation, but can't slam shut on your thumb if you maintain pressure on the op rod handle. If it does release you can feel the forward pressure and you just quickly remove your hand and let the bolt slam forward chambering the first round. But a rifle with little wear will usually remain locked back for the entire operation and it will be necessary to pull it back a bit to release the bolt after the clip is loaded. I fired thousands of rounds through M1s, not just qualification and live fire exercises, but also two summers shooting on the battalion rifle team, and never got bit--and only heard of one or two guys who did. The guys who get M1 thumb are often those who just got their first M1 from CMP or wherever and have had no training on how to load.

I think the "ping" being a giveaway to an empty rifle and an advantage to an enemy is just an old wives tale. If you are proficient with an M1 you can reload it very quickly. This is not to say you are invulnerable, as maybe there is a Chinese human wave attack, and more Chinese than rounds.

When we transitioned to the M14 the battle load was 5 - 20 round magazines. One in the rifle, four on the belt in two pouches which each contained two magazines. Extra bandoleers were available. This used to make us ponder what the philosophy of Ordnance Generals might be, as improved weapons and ammo always involved carrying the same or a little more weight.

266812 266813

[Adam Helmer]

First, I would much rather have a detachable box magazine (DBM). Just more convenient to me.

Saying a Garand is worthless without the clips and then saying an M14 is great cause it has a DBM is a poor argument. If you don't have a DBM then the M14 is just as 'worthless' as a Garand.

Note: One of the arguments made for the clip in the Garand is because a GI would 'lose' or not pick up the DBM's during battle, leaving him with a single shot rifle. This has been proven wrong over the years but was a consideration back in the procurement.

So, was the Garand design perfect? Not by a long shot. But, it was leaps and bounds better than anything else in the world for most of WWII.

Would I take an M14 over a Garand? Yes. If it had not been used by my father-in-law, I'd even trade my Garand for an M14/M1A.

charlie b,

The Brits used a detachable box magazine (DBM) in WW1 and WW2 with their SMLEs, so why was it a concern regarding a DBM for the Garand in the 1930s? The Brits let the DBM in place and loaded with chargers.

As for the "M1 Thumb", let me say that even the dullest recruit FINALLY got it right!

Adam

[charlie b]

I don't know why it was brought up back then, but, it was in a couple documents I read years ago.

FWIW, what use is a DBM if you charge it while in the rifle? The advantage of a DBM is large capacity and ease of swapping magazines when reloading. If you use stripper clips you may as well have a fixed magazine.

There is a lot about the M1 that was driven more by Army leadership than by engineering design. The more famous is the caliber decision but there were others. So, any inference that the Garand was an optimum design is just plain wrong. The advantage of the Garand was rate of aimed fire, nothing more. It helped that it was almost as reliable as the bolt rifles back then (and some folks in Korea would debate that).

Like I said before, I'd take a DBM any day. If anything, the over all length, weight and recoil are the bigger drawbacks for me.

[charlie b]

I'm going to say, Thank You, Charlie b for refreshing this thread. ....

YW. A mistake on my part :)

[Adam Helmer]

YW. A mistake on my part :)

charlie b,

My friend, we have many areas of agreement. I love the M1 Garand, own a few, and used the M1 to shoot my way twice onto the NH High Power Rifle Team and compete at Camp Perry.

As for a detachable box magazine, or a fixed magazine, is where the Garand "missed the bus" with its unique clip I never understood why Garand did not copy the M1903 box magazine or the M1917 box magazine and be done with it. Yes, chargers could be used to top off the 1903 or 1917 magazine as could loose rounds be so inserted. TRY that with a Garand. Best of luck without the Mannlicher-type CLIP!

Why didn't the Garand have a box magazine of 5, 6 or 8 or 10 rounds WITHOUT the SPECIAL idiotic Mannlicher-type Clip? Without the Clip, a GI soldier had a single-shot rifle in WWII! Good luck with that.


Be well.

Adam

[Baltimoreed]

266866
Ouch.

[Adam Helmer]

266866
Ouch.

Baltimoreed.

How many folks needed a second lesson? Even the Dullest recruit finally got a clue! LOL!

Adam

[charlie b]

.....
Why didn't the Garand have a box magazine of 5, 6 or 8 or 10 rounds WITHOUT the SPECIAL idiotic Mannlicher-type Clip? Without the Clip, a GI soldier had a single-shot rifle in WWII! Good luck with that.


I agree, but, in the end it worked.

I do have to say, the enbloc clips make it easy to carry a bunch of ammo and not worry about the clip bending or rounds working their way loose. I am still surprised at how much ammo I can fit in a .30cal can in the clips, ready to load and shoot.

It would have been nicer if there was a way to easily recharge the magazine without ejecting the clip. I've done it but it is almost a three handed operation. Same with loading a partial clip.