Best Lube For Patched Ball In T/C Hawken

[GBertolet]

I recently rediscovered my 45 cal 1970's T/C Hawken. I inquired in a previous post about the percussion caps, and I have since ordered 1K of mag caps, and a couple of pounds of 3F powder, to offset the hazmat charge. I have the maxi ball mold, and the .440 RB mold. I kind of like the traditional RB better. I had some patches from decades ago left, and was trying them. A prelubed .010 patch loaded easily, but tears and burns through upon firing. I had a few dry .020 patches, which were much more difficult to seat, but doable. I used Hoppe's BP solvent/lube on them. How does this rate as a patch lube? Maybe swabs the bore every shot?

I ultimately purchased several hundred .018 unlubed pillow ticking patches, which I think will be about right. Now for the lube. I hear some use Ballistol and water, 1 to 7 ratio. Soak the patches, lay them out flat and let dry. How does this rate? I do have some Ballistol. Or just use the Hoppe's BP lube/solvent on the patches. Is one method superior to another? With all this stay at home stuff, I have plenty of time to experiment, and go on the computer and ask questions.

[scattershot]

I use the T/C lube. You will probably get as many suggestions as there are member here, but the important thing to remember is to never use petroleum based lubes. They add to the fouling and are difficult to load after a few shots.

[Brassduck]

I've always used bore butter in my 54 lyman.

[Martin Luber]

+1 on wiping between shots with a soap and water solution soaked patch.

[Tasbay]

Olive oil

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I use Ox Yoke pre-lubed patches.

[Beerd]

Best loob?
spit.
..

[mooman76]

Spit patch is my favorite as long as it is shot right away before it dries out.

[dondiego]

Moose milk

[Regular Joe]

Hoppe's BP lube/solvent for me

[indian joe]

Moose milk

Moose milk shot a little damp beats all for target events or plinking - can shoot all day without swabbing between shots or fouling out and needing to clean.
Some guys are using MM or Ballistol mixes and drying the patches before using - yeah maybe that works - been there and done it and you much more likely to burn patches.

Hunting is a different deal - needs some kind of a greasy lube that wont bleed into the powder nor dry out in the bore. Dont matter if you can only shoot a few shots before a clean - bambi and bugs and their mates are long gone after a few anyways.

[RU shooter]

What I've come to realize about patch lube is especially if it's a shallow groove barrel . The wetter the lube the less you need to swab between shots or if at all . With stuff like bore butter or any kinda greasy or waxy stuff it just gets harder and harder to seat that ball until you swab it . Some don't mind having to swab after every so many shots , I'd rather shoot for just killing paper I use spit for hunting I use tracks mink oil .
.

[waksupi]

Moose milk shot a little damp beats all for target events or plinking - can shoot all day without swabbing between shots or fouling out and needing to clean.
Some guys are using MM or Ballistol mixes and drying the patches before using - yeah maybe that works - been there and done it and you much more likely to burn patches.

Hunting is a different deal - needs some kind of a greasy lube that wont bleed into the powder nor dry out in the bore. Dont matter if you can only shoot a few shots before a clean - bambi and bugs and their mates are long gone after a few anyways.

For hunting, a dried moose milk patch works fine for your first shot.

[Adam Helmer]

I recently rediscovered my 45 cal 1970's T/C Hawken. I inquired in a previous post about the percussion caps, and I have since ordered 1K of mag caps, and a couple of pounds of 3F powder, to offset the hazmat charge. I have the maxi ball mold, and the .440 RB mold. I kind of like the traditional RB better. I had some patches from decades ago left, and was trying them. A prelubed .010 patch loaded easily, but tears and burns through upon firing. I had a few dry .020 patches, which were much more difficult to seat, but doable. I used Hoppe's BP solvent/lube on them. How does this rate as a patch lube? Maybe swabs the bore every shot?

I ultimately purchased several hundred .018 unlubed pillow ticking patches, which I think will be about right. Now for the lube. I hear some use Ballistol and water, 1 to 7 ratio. Soak the patches, lay them out flat and let dry. How does this rate? I do have some Ballistol. Or just use the Hoppe's BP lube/solvent on the patches. Is one method superior to another? With all this stay at home stuff, I have plenty of time to experiment, and go on the computer and ask questions.

GBertolet,

Patch lube comes in many varieties. The simplest, and very serviceable, is Crisco, butter flavor is optional. I use my own Secret Hungarian Formula from my NH days which is beeswax, some Alox, and some Vasoline.

Spit is not worth much as it dries quickly and encourages rust in the breech. Bore Butter is good as is Spit Patch and other commercial patch lubes.

Adam

[Nobade]

RV antifreeze.

[kaiser]

+1 on Crisco; its works well for a patch lube, is cost effective, and has a multitude of other uses.

[Woodnbow]

Spit. Or Eezox.

[yeahbub]

GBertolet, you ask a very good question. There are numerous concoctions which work with varying degrees of success in the barrels of their owners, but you don't mention whether you are shooting right after loading or leaving it loaded for extended periods. Water-based lubes work great for shooting matches, with little need for in-between cleaning. I competed in local matches for some years and used spit, moose milk (synthetic water-soluble machining oil mixed with half the recommended water), Murphy's Oil Soap:water mixed 1:5 and a handful of commercial preparations. All worked well enough and kept me shooting without having to clean between shots. Hunting lubes are another matter, and I have yet to discover a non-water based lube which keeps loading easy. When I walked the hills defensing myself against hostile cow pies and dangerous dirt clods, osage oranges and knotholes in tree stumps, I needed a lube which I could leave in there without corroding the barrel. I've tried ballistol, which wasn't bad on target for three or four shouts, but loading got progressively difficult - which may not matter, since hunting doesn't usually involve shooting often. THE WORST I ever used was 1:1 Vaseline:beeswax. I could barely hit a house from the inside and it was very difficult to load even the second shot, yet some people report good results, though I don't understand how. Bore Butter works well enough accuracy-wise, but loading gets harder with just a few shots. By the fifth loading, I'm not interested in being that hard on my hickory loading rod, so I clean. I haven't tried olive oil, which some seem to like. One I'd like to try is bear oil which has never been available to me. It's the permanently liquid portion of rendered bear fat, referred to in historical writings as second only to sperm whale oil for repeated ease of loading. The last commercial availability of sperm whale oil was as automatic transmission fluid in the 1950's but is no longer available, at least not in the US - saving the planet and all that. I've often wondered if there wasn't a can of that still around on a dusty shelf somewhere, but it would probably be more valuable as a collector's item by now. I wonder if some rendered whale blubber could be bogarted from the Inuit, perchance. I'm in the lower 48, so it hasn't happened yet.

[koger]

This has got me to thinking, I have about 9 pints of bear grease I rendered down last fall off of one, I may just give that a trial.

[OverMax]

Seems to be many fair weather B/P shooters posting. As read the use of one patch lube through-out the seasons.~~ Really?
Not in the cards for me. I'll try everything once except for those stinky patch lubes laced with wintergreen. Ish!

Got no bear or deer tallow here. {dogs ate it as quick as it fell into their bowls.) Although I did rendered a small ham of its fat lately. Found such patching grease remarkably pleasing to the nostrils and noticed barrels fouling? >stayed soft. Although not the best for use in cold weather lard isn't.

[T-Bird]

I buy pork fat at the meat market for sausage making. Anyone use that? How is the best way to render? I know that's lard but would like to make my own for S+G.

[John Boy]

The “best” was Lehigh Valley Lube & Solvent but it is no longer available because I bought the last 14 spray bottles that the only vendor in the US had. Why? Because the patented Lube was discontinued

[waksupi]

Save your bear oil for cooking. When I spent a summer experimenting with various lubes, bear oil fouled out fairly quickly.

The one that surprised me most was whale oil. I had seen it mentioned fairly often in old journals. It fouled VERY quickly, with a hard crusty residue. Probably okay for hunting, not not an afternoon of play.

Vaseline hand lotion worked fairly well as far as fouling, however accuracy was lacking.

I tried the old style Goop hand cleaner, without the abrasive stuff in it, shot reasonably clean, but once again accuracy was not there.

Moose milk is still the king in my opinion. For winter use, mix it using winter blend windshield washer fluid.

Keep in mind I'm in a very dry climate, so different conditions could work entirely different for you.

[GBertolet]

I am a fair weather BP shooter. I mostly shoot modern firearms, shooting BP now, for a temporary change of pace. Being so, I load and shoot right away at the range. I just mixed up some moose milk to try, at the recommended 7 to 1 ratio, and soaked some patches. They are drying out now. I am also going to soak some patches with Hoppes BP lube/solvent to try. I hate lubing patches at the range. Pre lubing the patches is more desirable, and less messy also.

[indian joe]

I am a fair weather BP shooter. I mostly shoot modern firearms, shooting BP now, for a temporary change of pace. Being so, I load and shoot right away at the range. I just mixed up some moose milk to try, at the recommended 7 to 1 ratio, and soaked some patches. They are drying out now. I am also going to soak some patches with Hoppes BP lube/solvent to try. I hate lubing patches at the range. Pre lubing the patches is more desirable, and less messy also.

I make my moose milk 1:5. soak the patches in a cap tin or scrounge a screw top container from your wife's makeup drawer - take the WET patch out dab it on my pants leg so its damp but not drippy wet, load and shoot - continue until the shoot day is finished, if the bore gets a bit tight you drying the patches too much. Dried out patches can work but if you load heavy they much more likely to burn/blowout.

[Edward]

A damp bear/coon oil lubed patch ,bear preferred (no Oder long term)over a felt wad and under the the patched ball . Works hunting or target year round (for me) Ed

[sharps4590]

Any of about a thousand different ones will work. Find the one you and your rifle like best and that's the best one. Generally I use Bore Butter and it works fine as my match shooting days are over. I have and do still occasionally use various bees wax based lubes with some natural oil or tallow. They all work good as well.

[rfd]

this "best" thing crops up all the time about too many things. there is no such thing as a "best" of anything with regards to Everyone. whatever appears to work "best" for YOU, will surely be, well, best for you.

how do you know what is best for you?

easy, find out what variations there are and then - okay, here's the secret! - try as money as possible to see for yerself. doh.

[quilbilly]

I used old fashion Crisco for many years and it worked fine. If I was hunting in hot weather, I added some bees wax. Butter flavor Crisco taste better in camp but I believe it has some salt in it so I just bake with it. Then somehow a few years back I acquired or was given a whole lot of the 1000 Lube which I believe is the same as the Bore Butter. That has worked fine for me also and I don't have to add beeswax for hot weather.

[indian joe]

Seems to be many fair weather B/P shooters posting. As read the use of one patch lube through-out the seasons.~~ Really?
Not in the cards for me. I'll try everything once except for those stinky patch lubes laced with wintergreen. Ish!

Got no bear or deer tallow here. {dogs ate it as quick as it fell into their bowls.) Although I did rendered a small ham of its fat lately. Found such patching grease remarkably pleasing to the nostrils and noticed barrels fouling? >stayed soft. Although not the best for use in cold weather lard isn't.

one patch lube YES REALLY!

This (best patch lube?) is a question really not worth asking - ask enough shooters and you gonna get as many answers as there are lube concoctions out there.
(I agree with ya on the horse liniment deal by the way)

They all gonna swear black and blue that their favourite concoction is the best and only one

However if you are shooting competition, sitting, kneeling or offhand, and you can gain ANYTHING by wiping between shots - there is still some things you can learn about lubes. whether you want to or not is a moot point - it dont matter - but if it is necessary to swab the barrel anywhere in a competition string - that lube is disqualified from "best lube" class

oh - ps - we dont have any bears an mooses downunder - it dont snow - well hardly at all - if it gets anyways cold most sensible aussies will be found sitting round a fire (sometimes with a cold beer which makes absolutely no sense at all), we generally dont shoot front loaders in mid summer in case we set the place alight, so --- fair weather maybe ?

[triggerhappy243]

does anyone have real first hand knowledge of what is really in frontiers patch lube? I have my suspicions.

[stubshaft]

The “best” was Lehigh Valley Lube & Solvent but it is no longer available because I bought the last 14 spray bottles that the only vendor in the US had. Why? Because the patented Lube was discontinued

I must've gotten the last 5 bottles before you. A lot of things will work as lubes and I have had good luck with plain Jojoba oil on a patch and various home grown concoctions. Unfortunately Lehigh Valley gave me the most consistent accuracy in the majority of my smokepoles. I say unfortunately as it is now unobtainium.

[rfd]

I must've gotten the last 5 bottles before you. A lot of things will work as lubes and I have had good luck with plain Jojoba oil on a patch and various home grown concoctions. Unfortunately Lehigh Valley gave me the most consistent accuracy in the majority of my smokepoles. I say unfortunately as it is now unobtainium.

original formula *MIGHT* still available from its creator - https://www.lehighvalleylube.com/index.html

[megasupermagnum]

For targets, I use either spit or water quite a bit. Windshield washer fluid in the winter. For hunting I like a grease lube. I've found three lubes that work in most situations so far. Crisco is the easiest and cheapest. I used it from 90 degrees, down to about -10 last year. The great thing about Crisco is the consistency barely changes over that temp range. Even at -15, the stuff is still fluid. Maybe it thins out in the 95+ extreme heat, it doesn't get that hot here. The second was the patch lube from FronteirMuzzleloading. I did not stick with that lube for one main reason, and that is cost. The other thing about it I didn't like, is that it is quite thick. Patches lubed with FM anti-rust lube felt waxy. Some may consider this a benefit. I did not find it be better than Crisco, so I let things be. The third is Mink oil from TOTW. I tried it in the winter, and it works great there. So far it has only got up to about 60-65 this year, but so far so good. It does seem to get very soft in your hands, I'm guessing it will start melting around 100 degrees. The only bad thing I have found with Crisco, is that it does not seem to be a good long term product. Pre-lubed patches seem to become dry and turn colors after a couple of months. Mink oil doesn't seem to have that problem so far. While I never did have any problem with Crisco as a gun lube, due to the patches drying, I never did fully trust it more than a short term product. Mink oil on the other hand I have been using to lube for a few months now, and it seems to maintain it's effectiveness.

[barnabus]

I use Ox Yoke pre-lubed patches.

same here because they are not messy and the lube is consistent which means accuracy!

[John Boy]

rfd - Nope -not being made anymore
Here's the patent for Lehigh Valley Lube if you care to make it
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,105,591.PN.&OS=PN/6,105,591&RS=PN/6,105,591

4 grams of tall oil is thoroughly mixed with 7.5 grams of formula 3A denatured alcohol (100 parts ethanol to 5 parts methanol). 19.65 grams of 0.432 N NaOH was added to the solution and mixed thoroughly. This neutralizes the tall oil acidity thereby forming the corresponding fatty acid salt. (The normality of NaOH solution is based on a tall oil acidity determination, such that adding aqueous sodium hydroxide solution adjusts the pH to about 9) Thereafter, 0.45 grams of pine oil was added to the solution and mixed thoroughly, for a final solution weight of 30 grams. Upon final mixing a clear colorless solution is created.

Tall oil - Tall oil, also called "liquid rosin" or tallol, is a viscous yellow-black odorous liquid obtained as a by-product of the Kraft process of wood pulp manufacture when pulping mainly coniferous trees.

I did a barter for a quart of it with intent of making my own from the patent until it came back on the market and found the source for the bottles I have

[indian joe]

For hunting, a dried moose milk patch works fine for your first shot.

I didnt do so good with dried patches - tried it last year because it sounded good - less mess and time at the range - I think I push my loads a bit hard ?
Need a session on the cronograph to test this - maybe the damp patch is cutting velocity some - and a bit less powder behind the dry patch might end up the same? Have not shot my ml enough the last year!!!! have not shot ANYTHING enough last year - or any other year really1:Fire:

[waksupi]

I didnt do so good with dried patches - tried it last year because it sounded good - less mess and time at the range - I think I push my loads a bit hard ?
Need a session on the cronograph to test this - maybe the damp patch is cutting velocity some - and a bit less powder behind the dry patch might end up the same? Have not shot my ml enough the last year!!!! have not shot ANYTHING enough last year - or any other year really1:Fire:

As I said, I just load like that for the hunting load, where it may stay down bore for a length of time. When shooting the dried moose milk on the bench, I was swabbing between shots.

[a danl]

thompson center #13 if you can find it .... it is also the best for cleaning

[Mr Peabody]

Anybody shooting moose milk patches see them smoldering on the ground in front of you?

[waksupi]

Anybody shooting moose milk patches see them smoldering on the ground in front of you?

Wet ones won't, no idea about dry ones.

[indian joe]

Wet ones won't, no idea about dry ones.

damp ones dont burn
seen a few smouldering patches on our club range but seems only when the gun tears em up in the barrel - if the patch comes out whole seems ok.

I used to heavy load a 54 CVA and couldnt get the calico patches to hold so I used a smaller calico patch as a backer patch on the powder first then loaded the patch ball - shot accurate if you loaded it carefully but that dry patch was a certain sure firelighter - not the smartest idea for hunting!

[Edward]

damp ones dont burn
seen a few smouldering patches on our club range but seems only when the gun tears em up in the barrel - if the patch comes out whole seems ok.

I used to heavy load a 54 CVA and couldnt get the calico patches to hold so I used a smaller calico patch as a backer patch on the powder first then loaded the patch ball - shot accurate if you loaded it carefully but that dry patch was a certain sure firelighter - not the smartest idea for hunting!

I"m pretty sure you know this but a card/felt wad under your patched RB works wonders without any negative impact , unless yer cookin hotdogs/Ed

[indian joe]

I"m pretty sure you know this but a card/felt wad under your patched RB works wonders without any negative impact , unless yer cookin hotdogs/Ed

:-D yeah I got over the hero loads eventually - straight stock used to belt my cheek bones somethin awful - barrel wore in some - eased the load a bit - damp moose milk patch of pillow ticking (instead of the calico) and she's good --
I made a jig for hot oil bending stocks - a walnut one and one we made from that black Brazillian pseudo walnut bent like putty - the cheap beechwood (or whatever) CVA stock was really tough - in the end I got it to drop half an inch - but a heckuva hard job - almost a waste of effort !!!

[rodinal220]

DGW Zip-Patch or make your own from 50/50 Mutton tallow and beeswax. I soak my BP shotgun fiber wads in this.

[Woodnbow]

Spit is,what I use most often. Or just the barest amount of Eezox.

[Nit Wit]

Plain old spit!
Nit Wit

[IHuntDragons]

I recently rediscovered my 45 cal 1970's T/C Hawken. I inquired in a previous post about the percussion caps, and I have since ordered 1K of mag caps, and a couple of pounds of 3F powder, to offset the hazmat charge. I have the maxi ball mold, and the .440 RB mold. I kind of like the traditional RB better. I had some patches from decades ago left, and was trying them. A prelubed .010 patch loaded easily, but tears and burns through upon firing. I had a few dry .020 patches, which were much more difficult to seat, but doable. I used Hoppe's BP solvent/lube on them. How does this rate as a patch lube? Maybe swabs the bore every shot?

I ultimately purchased several hundred .018 unlubed pillow ticking patches, which I think will be about right. Now for the lube. I hear some use Ballistol and water, 1 to 7 ratio. Soak the patches, lay them out flat and let dry. How does this rate? I do have some Ballistol. Or just use the Hoppe's BP lube/solvent on the patches. Is one method superior to another? With all this stay at home stuff, I have plenty of time to experiment, and go on the computer and ask questions.

I have one of these new in the box never even put together that I got from a friends dad's estate. How do you like shooting it? I've toyed with actually taking it out, but just haven't brought myself to do it yet.

[GBertolet]

I really enjoy shooting the Hawken. A lot more time consuming than smokeless cartridge guns. Be prepared to spend several hours at the range, to fire a couple of dozen shots. Loading, and periodic swabbing the bore takes time. With all that extra effort, you are more inclined to make every shot count. I sort of find it a relaxing change of pace. The coal burners shoot better than many people outside this hobby realize. In shooting reactive targets, you often have to wait until the smoke clears, to see if you hit.

I had been using 55 gr of 3F powder with the RB. Some sources claim 2F should be used in the 45 caliber, but I found 3F shoots a lot cleaner. I don't load anywhere near maximum anyway.