PDA

View Full Version : 38/200



happy7
11-20-2008, 11:45 PM
I guess I will get the thread started. I loaded some of these up today and have taken pictures. I started off with 2.5 grains of True Blue. I will chronograph and see where that puts me. According to Pet Loads the original factory load was 600 fps so I will kind of shoot for that, but with an eye to accuracy as well. Hopefully I can shoot these this weekend.

9.3X62AL
11-21-2008, 12:42 AM
Thanks for the reminder, Happy--I have a NEI #169A that needs a pouring session.

BulletGeek
11-21-2008, 09:52 AM
Dang... is there a Lyman or Ideal mold that drops a .361-diameter 200-grain RN like that?

Blammer
11-21-2008, 12:01 PM
what case/round is that?

BulletGeek
11-21-2008, 12:38 PM
.38 s&w.

9.3X62AL
11-21-2008, 04:06 PM
38 S&W for the British service revolvers so chambered, a more powerful loading than the usual 146 grain RN @ 700-725 FPS. These should only be fired in Webley/Enfield top-breaks or S&W M&P revolvers, the small-framed top-breaks aren't strong enough for these "38/200" loadings--and I wouldn't try them in Colt Police Positive or S&W I/J-frame Terriers or similar variants, either.

Note in the photo above that the boolit is actually longer than the case into which it gets fitted--THAT is a little different. No, it's not a MegaMagnum--and in this day of Linebaugh and Casull wrist-wrenchers, it is rendered a bit superfluous. But any kind of shooting is still fun for most of us, and these heavy-for-caliber boolits get the old British service revolvers looking in the same location they print downrange. A net gain, in my book.

Some samples of NEI #169A sent by a member here shot right to the sights in both of my revolvers prompted by 2.8 grains of Unique. Ken Waters in his "Pet Loads" article on this subject gave 3.0 grains of Unique as maximum, and my loads (stepped from 2.4 grains to 3.0 grains in 0.2 grain increments) did their best at 2.8 grains. No chronograpy, my interest was in the sighting/printing nexus--and the 3.0 grain load opened groups noticeably. The S&W threatened to keep and occasionally kept 10 shots inside 2.5" at 25 yards, while the DAO Webley-Enfield was a bit less refined. I wasn't planning on a Camp Perry campaign with it, anyway.

The caliber has a reputation for not being a decisive stopper of determined adversaries, but that doesn't mean I'll stand downrange and catch slugs in a landing net to facilitate alloy recycling. Running these loads against a metal impact plate gets that critter swinging about like 358429s at 850 FPS from the 38 Special, and hits strike with some authority. It surely wouldn't do jackrabbits or cottontails any good on contact.

j4570
11-21-2008, 07:40 PM
Well,

these look good. My mold hasn't arrived yet actually.

I'm a bit overworked right now, any forum members want to supply me with about 250 to 500 of these for a fair price?

I have a mold, and I guess I could send it to Dan in Alaska (I think that's him) and get some cast as I got the mold after wanting to load for my Enfield No.2.

After all, it was my first cartridge pistol, so it only deserves me to shoot it some more.

JW

dragonrider
11-21-2008, 07:55 PM
Thanks I needed that reminder, I have that mould and haven't used it a couple of years. Have to dig it out and cast some.

hunter64
11-21-2008, 10:30 PM
Happy7: What did you size those bad boys to?

happy7
11-22-2008, 12:23 AM
I used a .363 sizer, so didn't really size them. I use makarov dies to load them, as the lee 38 S&W dies are a little tight.

9.3X62AL
11-22-2008, 02:09 AM
I do likewise, Happy7. After seating the NEI boolits, I am able to use the 38 S&W seater die to set a roll crimp and not touch the seated boolit, sort of a 4th die step of sorts.

hunter64
11-22-2008, 10:10 AM
Happy7 and 9.3x62al: So if you size the bullet to .360 then the normal Lee 38 S&W die set will work fine and if you size to .363 then you have to use a 9mm Makarov die set to reload them?

dubber123
11-22-2008, 10:20 AM
I don't want to butt in, but will anyways.. Most if not all .38 S&W dies seem to size too much, and the expanders are too small. I have RCBS dies, and the expander is .356", not good for a soft .363" boolit.

I have yet to measure a .38 S&W that didn't have at least .362" throats. I guess I need to order some Makarov dies too.

hunter64
11-22-2008, 10:41 AM
dubber123: I have the Lee Universal expander die that I use to flare the case when I reload 30/30 and .303 brit with lead bullets so I dont shave the bullet. Is it is a simple as flaring the mouth?

happy7
11-22-2008, 11:43 AM
I am sure you can make it work with the universal expander as far as case mouth expanding, although the makarov expander expands deaper into the case. But also to start with the 38 S&W dies size too much so the brass is overly tight to start with. The standard makarov bullet is .363 so that die sizes the brass correctly. However, the real problem is the seating die. The die is too tight to seat .363 bullets. Lee dies are priced right, so it doesn't break the bank too badly to pick up a set of Lee Makarov dies.

I can't remember, but I think the 38 S&W dies will work ok with .360 sized bullets, but I think for most guns you will be sizing them too small. I know all three of mine are at least .362.

Al, I too use the 38 S&W seater does work as a crimp die with the seating plug removed.

dubber123
11-22-2008, 12:50 PM
dubber123: I have the Lee Universal expander die that I use to flare the case when I reload 30/30 and .303 brit with lead bullets so I dont shave the bullet. Is it is a simple as flaring the mouth?

The flare is only part of the equation, as Happy said, most dies size too small to start, and then the expander doesn't open it up enough. Even with enough flare to seat without shaving, the much harder and stronger brass case can actually size the boolit down when seating, giving you an undersize boolit without even knowing it.

There was a post with pics on here, (Buckshot maybe), that showed some pulled boolits after seating in too tight of a case. They were obviously sized down by the case. This is likely why alot of guys struggle to get accuracy out of .38 S&W's.

hunter64
11-22-2008, 09:12 PM
OK I get it now. I looked at my reloading book and I understand where you guys are coming from. You use the Makarov dies to deprime and size, then you use the seater die to seat the bullet. Then you use the .38 S&W seater die with the actual bullet seater backed out so it doesn't touch the bullet to put a crimp on the case. It shows in my reloading book that the Makarov case is 4 thou wider than the .38 S&W so any problems loading into the chambers? Man I don't even have the bullet mold yet and I am getting all excited.

happy7
11-22-2008, 11:31 PM
As far as whether it will load into the chambers is a question of individual guns. So far they chamber in my guns, but I would try out the first couple to see if they chamber ok. Try all chamber because someones one or two will be tighter.

smlekid
11-23-2008, 12:27 AM
I just cast up some boolits with my new mould I used a 10 to 1 lead tin alloy my mould is droping at .363" and weigh 193gr with this alloy
for loads I will concerntrate on Hodgson Universal which is quite freely available in Oz as AS70 I loaded one dummy round up and the Lee 38 S&W dies seemed to work OK with this diameter
I don't know when I will be able to testfire my loads and run them over the Chrony I will be shooting for 600fps my Webley is at the doctors having its hammer nose fixed it started to misfire and I discovered that the hammer nose was bouncing up off the frame when fired and it has damaged the hammer nose hopefully I will have it back soon

smlekid
12-01-2008, 04:05 AM
has anyone shot there's yet? I'm still waiting to get my Webley back

happy7
12-01-2008, 08:24 AM
I went to the range to shoot mine, only to discover that the loaded round was too long for my Webley's cylinder!!! This when seated on the crimp groove. I am still looking into this and waiting for people to get back to me with dimensions and trials with their guns. The NEI 169A design, which our mold is supposed to be a copy of, is a tried and true design for these guns. What I am trying to figure out is if my Webley has a shorter cylinder than average or if our crimp groove somehow ended up in the wrong place. If the latter proves to be the case, I will take full responsibility and give anyone a refund who wants one. Not having an NEI mold myself, I just assumed that the dimesions I got were a faithful copy and would work and should have checked this dimension against my Webley. Like i say, I hope that my Webley is an exception, but if it isn't, I offer my deepfelt apologies and will make good financially to those who want.

The loaded rounds are about 0.50", or a little less than 1/16 too long for my cylinder. I think this will only affect Webley owners, and not smith owners. The cartriges do fit in my Colt Police Positive.

It does work to seat the bullets a little past the crimp groove, but then you don't have a crimp groove. I am also planning on using a flat top punch to flatten out the nose a bit and try that. I think that will work as well.

hunter64
12-01-2008, 08:47 AM
I havent received mine yet, stupid slow customs. How long is the over all length of your rounds? I have enfield revolvers but I think they were an exact copy of the webleys so the cylinder will probably be the same. As fas as a crimp groove goes, was the dimensions of the drawing the same as the NEI mold?

happy7
12-01-2008, 12:36 PM
Hunter,

From the dimensions I have recieved so far it looks like our nose to crimp dimension is longer than the NEI mold. Overall length is 1.31"

happy7
12-01-2008, 12:43 PM
I had a go at flatpointing the bullets. It was very easy. I set up the lyman 4500 with a 421 punch and my .363 sizer die and adjusted the stop so that when the 421 punch was touching the die and could be lowered no farther (due to the fact that it is a 44 caliber punch and will not fit into the die) I got the lube groove perfectly lubed and an overall length on the bullet of 0.775. I tried these in the chamber of my Webley and they fit great. I thought you all would like to see some photos.

This may work for some of you. When I have a chance to get to the range I will let you know how they shoot. Also seating deeper and crimping over the nose will work as well, and there is still plently of room in the case for powder.

The first batch I loaded up, I shot up in my Colt PP and got only 420 fps. So now I have loaded up another 10 with the flat nose and upped the powder from 2.5 grains True Blue to 2.9 grains of same.

The middle picture is my Webley with the round nose bullets sticking out the end. The picture on the right is the cylinder showing how the flat noses do fit nicely.

dubber123
12-01-2008, 07:42 PM
Cool pics, and nice job with the flat pointing! Dang, I shoulda bought one of these moulds...

hunter64
12-01-2008, 08:49 PM
happy7: With a velocity supposed to be at about 600-700 fps I wouldn't think you would even need a crimp groove so as you stated you could just seat the bullet slightly deeper in the case. I would back off on the powder a slight bit and try some out and check for pressure signs. What is the length of your Webley cylinder and I will check it against the Enfield cylinder?

Char-Gar
12-01-2008, 08:53 PM
When those molds get there and if anybody is not happy I will the mold off your hands for the price you paid. also I will take any unused NEI 169A off your hands for a reasonable price. Send me a PM is you are interested.

hunter64
12-01-2008, 09:40 PM
I just got home from work and a nice notice was in my mailbox saying something is waiting for me at the post office. Happy 7: I measured my Enfield and my webley non military revolvers and they both have the exact same cylinder length of 1.221" so I will probably have the same problem with the bullets.

dominicfortune00
12-01-2008, 10:16 PM
If you trimmed the brass .050 shorter, would the bullets work okay as cast?

happy7
12-01-2008, 10:33 PM
That would work, but you would need to then keep them separate, because being shorter, that would increase pressures for any plublished loading data for other bullets that you might want to load in the brass at a future date.


If you trimmed the brass .050 shorter, would the bullets work okay as cast?

oksmle
12-01-2008, 10:45 PM
happy7 .... My original NEI 169As measure 0.835" in length. Crimp groove to nose is 0.505".
OAL of loaded cartridge is 1.266". I have never had to alter the boolits to fit my Webley, Enfields, or M&Ps. I have also cast from this mold for several other Enfield shooters who have not complained about the OAL in their cylinders.
Thanks,
oksmle

hunter64
12-02-2008, 12:02 AM
happy7 .... My original NEI 169As measure 0.835" in length. Crimp groove to nose is 0.505".
OAL of loaded cartridge is 1.266". I have never had to alter the boolits to fit my Webley, Enfields, or M&Ps. I have also cast from this mold for several other Enfield shooters who have not complained about the OAL in their cylinders.
Thanks,
oksmle

Well something is goofy. I looked back on the original posting and all I can find is the as cast diameter we were looking for but no dimensions or over all lengths were discussed or drawn. I assumed since this was an exact copy of the NEI mold that every dimension was adhered to and that Lee would duplicate it. So is the drawing that was sent into Lee incorrect or was this Lee's fault and not cutting it right?

oksmle
12-02-2008, 12:56 AM
hunter64 .... I didn't get in on the group buy from Lee because I already had my original NEI 169A in a four cavity. So I didn't pay any attention to what you folks were doing....
oksmle

happy7
12-02-2008, 01:45 AM
Oksmle, Thanks for the dimensions.

The crimp groove to nose dimension on the drawing I sent to Lee was 0.524. The bullets I cast were within 0.004 of that so Lee is not at fault.

This was meant, as you say Hunter, to be an exact copy of the NEI 169 and I fear I have failed to deliver that, despite me best intentions. Again I want to offer my apologies. I can now conclude the drawing was in error. The molds are as ordered from Lee. As honcho it was my responsibility to make sure the drawing was correct. I want to do the right thing by you all and I will issue a refund to those who desire one. Just PM me. After our long wait, I know this will be disappointing, especially to those of you who have Webleys. Again, I am sorry.

oksmle
12-02-2008, 02:21 AM
happy7 .... Before everyone hits the panic button here's some food for thought. Try standing the loaded cartridge that you "squished" the nose on next to a loaded .38 Spec. & a loaded .357 mag. Compare how closely it comes to them in OAL . My mold casts a .3615" boolit & when sized to .3595" & seated in the .38 S&W case (after being "squished") in the normal manner, will fit & function in both my Puma Mod. 92 & Marlin (which has a sloppy chamber) in .357 mag. What this means is that I have the equivalent of a short, long & long rifle cartridge for the rifles. Consequently, none of the castings with imperfections get tossed back in the pot, but get their noses "squished" & then used for killing cans. I realize this depends on each individual rifle, but as I said it's food for thought. Also, for those wanting to load for the M&Ps there should be plenty of room. I'm looking at a dummy round in the chamber of my M&P & there must be over 1/4" clearance from the cylinder mouth to the boolit tip.
oksmle

smkummer
12-02-2008, 05:40 PM
I backed off the 9mm full length sizer die and loaded some rounds for my H and R solid frame. I used the 38 special shell holder and unsized 158 Lyman RN bullets. Never really shot for accuracy though and sold the gun. Also would Lyman's 195 RN bullet that is used to replicate the 200 Super police load work? I am keeping my eyes out for a shooter's grade Colt Banker's special to add to my collection.

dominicfortune00
12-02-2008, 10:12 PM
happy7

That works for me as I only plan on loading cartridges as close to military specs as I can.

This will be the only mold that I have or will need for my Webley's and Enfield's.

Unless I get a swage die made to make a mini-Manstopper round for the Webley.



That would work, but you would need to then keep them separate, because being shorter, that would increase pressures for any plublished loading data for other bullets that you might want to load in the brass at a future date.

9.3X62AL
12-02-2008, 10:44 PM
I would advise against running ANY of the Webley-Enfield or S&W M&P-level loads in any Banker's Special or other D-frame Colt double-action revolver, or in any S&W I- or J-frame revolver. Stick to the 145 grainers at 700 FPS in these models, those sorts of loads are what the platforms were proofed for and their sights regulated for.

The Webley-Enfield/S&W M&P loads of 178-200 grain boolits at 700-750 FPS closely duplicate the 38 Special Super Police loads of a 200 grain RNL going 700-725 FPS. Clearly, there's more pressure in these loads stuffed into 38 S&W cases than with a 145 grain boolit at the same velocity from the same case. I should also note that Lyman #358430 in its 195 grain version shoots WONDERFULLY in both 38 Special and 357 Magnum revolvers, among the most accurate boolits I've ever run in these calibers. I can "Beagle" them out to about .361", but that isn't quite fat enough for my milsurp revos. Hence the NEI #169A in the mould drawer and a .363" H&I die for this caliber. Makarov dies to the rescue, and Starline cases ROCK!

hunter64
12-03-2008, 01:21 AM
Happy7: I got the mold today and cast a few and they look and measure great. It would have been nice to have the lube groove where it was supposed to be but no big deal. My main concern was to get a bullet fat enough and heavy enough so it hits where the sights are set to. I can always set it a bit deeper in the case with a good crimp (not that it is really needed) or make some nice flat nose bullets like your pictures. I ordered a set of 9mm Makarov dies from Lee and a .363 sizer so hopefully they will get here soon but with winter here in Canada already I have to regulate my shooting to the indoor range when ever I get a chance to visit it. Let us know how those bad boy looking flat nose thumpers work as far as regulation to the sights on your webleys. Thanks for running the group buy.

klcarroll
12-03-2008, 09:52 AM
Hi

I'm new to this forum, and I haven't had the opportunity to fully explore the Site and all the related links; ......So forgive me for asking a question that may have an answer that is obvious to everyone here!

I really want a mold for the bullet you're discussing here! ......Are they currently available??

KLC


EDIT: .....OK!, ......So I'm a total Noob! ........I just found the Group Buy area!

(I promise not to be a TOTAL idiot every time I post!)

KLC



Yet Another Edit:

Prior to some "Marital Unpleasantness" some years ago, I used to collect Webley revolvers. I grew quite fond of them.

I am now trying to locate a couple of good "Shooters". Can any of the Webley fans here suggest places to search?? The prices on the major auction sites seem geared to the collector and not the shooter.

KLC

lathesmith
12-03-2008, 11:55 AM
KLC, welcome to the forums here, and just remember, everyone has to start somewhere! This Lee mold is a special order one, these take around 8 months or so to get. Send happy7 a private message, he did have a few extras of this mold available. You never know until you ask...
Happpy, I also wanted to say, I will be using my mold in a S&W Victory, so a few tenths of extra length is of no concern to me. The main dimension I must have is the diameter...and we have that taken care of. Unfortunately for me, I have so many irons in the fire right now that it will be a while before I get to cast any of these. Bummer!
lathesmith

klcarroll
12-03-2008, 12:39 PM
@lathesmith;

Thanks for the welcome!

KLC

9.3X62AL
12-03-2008, 02:58 PM
KLC--

Another "Welcome Aboard", sir!

In the event such a mould as the Group Buy example is not available, a more expensive route would be to order Mould #169A from NEI. I went that route earlier this year, and the item was delivered 10 days after ordering.

www.neihandtools.com

smlekid
12-04-2008, 07:30 AM
I loaded some up at 1.240" will have a chance to hopefully try them on Sunday I loaded with 2.6 grs of Hogdsons Universal

slug
12-04-2008, 12:45 PM
This won't work for me and my buddy, so I'll put my mould up for sale for what I paid for it, plus shipping. If not, I'll just return it.
PM if you're interested.
Thanks.

Now, my partner has decided to keep it.

smlekid
12-04-2008, 04:39 PM
Slug I loaded mine with no problems even had a light crimp they look fine I guess the crimp groove is now just a shallow lube groove :)

dubber123
12-04-2008, 06:25 PM
Slug I loaded mine with no problems even had a light crimp they look fine I guess the crimp groove is now just a shallow lube groove :)

I use the crimp as a lube groove on several boolits, like the RCBS 98gr. SWC in .32., when loaded for my Marlin. The extra lube helps in the rifle. It's a perfectly legit way to make a design thats "close" work for you.

j4570
12-04-2008, 07:25 PM
I know the mold works but I really want a copy of the NEI. Anyone who needs a mold, please contact me. I'm going to list it in the for sale section. Someone please buy it as I would feel bad asking happy to take it back after all his hard work.

Thanks

Jason

jdgabbard
12-05-2008, 08:00 AM
Has anyone tried loading some of these in .38spl cases and seeing if they will chamber in a 357mag revolver?

hunter64
12-05-2008, 10:06 AM
Nope, to long. Over all length of the bullet seated in a 38 spl. case and crimped into the groove will be 1.155 (case)+.524 (bullet)=1.679" the length of a .357 magnum is 1.59" and I tried it in all my .357 magnum revolvers and the nose stuck out of the cylinder.

Either you have to flat point the bullet as Happy has done, or you crimp over the crimp groove, just like you do with every semi-auto pistol round, no crimp groove is used.

smlekid
12-05-2008, 05:41 PM
they will chamber in my 586 nicely when seated to the crimp groove and loaded into 38 special cases my pistol measures 1.680" from cartridge base to forcing cone my loaded test round measures 1.675
now all I need is some loading data to give them a try anyone have some?

hunter64
12-05-2008, 06:18 PM
I dont have a .357 S&W , just some older Rugers so obviously your cylinder is a bit longer than mine. Or maybe I didnt crimp up far enough, guess either way it is really close.

Can't wait to get to the range and try this mold out, won't be this weekend I have to work.

smlekid
12-05-2008, 09:31 PM
I am hoping to try mine this weekend I have loaded up some for the Webley
it will be interesting to see how it goes

smlekid
12-07-2008, 02:11 AM
well I got to put some over the Chrony today 2.6grs of Hodgsons Universal got me 675fps or there abouts unfortunatly I didn't get to put any on paper hopefully I will be able to do that soon

9.3X62AL
12-07-2008, 05:12 PM
That's very close to "Issue" ballistics for the British service load--which were in the vicinity of 700 FPS. This is a pretty telling upgrade to 38 S&W performance--the 38 Special "Super Police" 200 grain loads ran right at 700 FPS. I don't think many shooters consider the 38 S&W in the context of "defensive caliber"--I don't, anway--it's a "fun gun" for me, like a 22 LR With Attitude. I have hit a few jackrabbits with these loads, mostly 38 Special/Lyman #358430 but a few with the NEI samples--and they dispatch jacks with authority, a thing not as certain with those (expletives deleted) 9mm sub-sonic JHP powderpuffs.

How is this so? Not sure, but the exit wounds on the jacks look like the boolits are tumbling after contact. Certainly not in flight, because Lyman #358430 is a SUPERBLY accurate boolit in every 38 Special and 357 Magnum revolver I've fired them through, and the NEIs flew pretty true as well. In contrast, the 9mm JHPs drill straight through the critters without apparent expansion. Now, a jackrabbit isn't a big, dense target--but the lack of expansion and indecisive stops don't inspire confidence in the sub-sonics' potential as stoppers of targets that shoot at you. Just sayin'.

Dale53
12-09-2008, 12:45 AM
Reading this thread kind of takes me back to just after World War II (in my day we just called it THE war[smilie=1:), when those wonderful old
British service revolvers went for $15.00-$20.00 here locally. I lusted for one but money was too tight to "splurge".

They were, of course, a bit homely, but well built and did yeoman's service. Just a few of those things that I never got to experience. Then when I got the money for such things, smallbore rifle, big bore rifle, then NRA Bullseye, IPSC, Silhouette Pistol, BPCR's etc seemed to get in the way.

Oh well, like the man says, "You can't do everything"... still, I look back a little wistfully...

Dale53

klcarroll
12-09-2008, 11:39 AM
@Dale53;

You're quite right!! The Webley (appearance notwithstanding) was a solid, stone-reliable fighting man's tool! .......And it's "break-action" made it the fastest reloading military revolver ever issued!

.......And YES! .....They sure USED to be cheap to buy!

Heck! .....I remember that in the middle 1960's you could still buy them "by the barrel"!! (one part Webleys - two parts Cosmoline)

Back then, all of the "Gun Experts" ridiculed them, calling them "Junk" and "Doorstops": ...I started collecting them.

All of that ended during some "Marital Unpleasantness" that left me thankful for the shirt on my back.

Lately, I have been actively searching for Webleys, ......and I have been ASTONISHED at the prices they now command.

KLC

Fry
12-12-2008, 07:38 PM
So if I'm going to reload for my .38 S&W Victory, I'm gonna need 9mm Makarov AND .38 S&W dies?

9.3X62AL
12-12-2008, 09:25 PM
I would suggest getting a 9mm Makarov tungsten carbide die set, plus a 38 S&W seater die alone from Huntington's or Midway to set the roll crimp after the boolit is seated. My 38 S&W seater die (RCBS Cowboy set) won't take a boolit over .361" in diameter--but once the NEI #169A is seated, it will set a good crimp properly.

Most die sets "assume" jacketed bullets with their internal dimensioning. This doesn't always work out for cast boolits.

Fry
12-13-2008, 12:51 PM
I've only ever reloaded .45acp and 9mm with my setup... sounds like I'm taking on a whole new challenge with .38 S&W!

9.3X62AL
12-13-2008, 01:34 PM
If you've been successful with 9mm--especially with cast boolits--the 38 S&W will pose no real challenges, other than finding tools that match your revolver's dimensions.

My FIRST step would be to slug your revolver's throats to see what you are dealing with dimensions-wise. If the throats are in the .360"-.361" range, the 38 S&W set should work for you. If larger, then go with the combination I mentioned above to prevent frustration AND to gain the tungsten-carbide sizing ability the 9mm Mak die set enables. To my knowledge, there are no T/C or titanium nitride sizer dies made specifically for the 38 S&W.

Fry
12-14-2008, 01:37 PM
Seller says .363 but I will be unable to check until it arrives on Tuesday... with my CZ858 :)

Just a matter of time now.

45 2.1
12-14-2008, 02:53 PM
To my knowledge, there are no T/C or titanium nitride sizer dies made specifically for the 38 S&W.

Any carbide sizer made for the 38 Super works fine for the 38 S&W (also works fine for 38 Special and 357 Mag when loading larger diameter boolits.).

HeavyMetal
12-14-2008, 08:27 PM
I've seen a Lee Carbide 38 S&W die set, Bass Pro's had several in stock.

I haven't bought a set because I haven't had time to check the throats in the cylinder of the gun I have. So until I ready to load I won't buy until I know what I need.

Seems to be a lot of variation in 38 S&W chambers and thorats!

9.3X62AL
12-14-2008, 08:51 PM
Check the specs on the die sets carefully. The RCBS Cowboy set I bought in 38 S&W does fine work resizing with its steel die, albeit with lube applied (not an issue for me, really). The expander plugs are 2 in number and marked .358" and .360" respectively, corresponding to bullet/boolit diameters at those dimensions. A fine idea poorly executed, though--my plugs are of a length that would work well in 38 Special or 357 Magnum, but are too long to enter a 38 S&W case and enable a flare for seating before hitting the bottom of the casing. !!! Also as above, no boolit over .362" will fit in the seater die's bullet alignment sleeve below the seater stem/above the crimp shoulder inside the die.

smlekid
12-22-2008, 06:07 AM
well I finally got my Webley back into action went out tonight after work and tested the bullets I loaded it with 2.6 grs of Hodgson Universal the first group was fired at 12m from a rest I tested the velocity it registered around 660fps I was shooting at the No8 on this target as you can see it went a little right
the second group at 7m was fired off hand with a strong wind I was waving around like a dunny door in a gale!!! this group I was shooting at the base of the white rectangle
the loads look like they have some potenial I think I will try a slower powder as the gun was a little hard to extract at times I'll try some AP 100 which is close to Blue dot
I am happy with the velocity and accuracy looks good

madcaster
01-17-2009, 11:02 PM
Folks I have one of these moulds that I bought from a member,and I do NOT need,it is in the swapping and selling section.
I gave $80.00 for it,would like to get my money back on it.
JS

home in oz
01-17-2009, 11:13 PM
Which mold did you say it was?

madcaster
01-17-2009, 11:15 PM
The 38-200,
Jeff,276-783-4310

glicerin
01-23-2009, 12:14 AM
It warmed up to 14F, so I took out my Enfield No.2 Mk1.
38/200 med/soft sized in Buckshot's .361 die, RCBS #429 top punch gave a small meplat, shortening the bullet, allowing crimping in crimp groove, coal 1.265". Dominion brass, loaded with 2.4 grn unique. Two hand supported SA at 25 yard, 5 shots in 3 & 1/4", in nra 25 yd T&R black. Hopefully good weather and load refinement may improve.

Landric
01-26-2011, 11:30 PM
To revive an old thread:

I purchased one of these GB moulds new from someone who originally participated in the buy, then never used the mould. I cast a pile last weekend with good results.

They cast .3625 & 195 grains with wheel weight lead. I don't as of yet have a .38 S&W, but I'm hoping to acquire a S&W Victory model eventually. I tried to size them to .358, but that crushed the crimp groove, so I went with .360. At .360 they still drop right into the chambers of various revolvers, but in .38 Special brass and crimped in the crimp groove they are too long for both my SP101 .357 and my S&W 642 .38. However, they are perfect in my L-frame .357. I can't wait to try these out in the L-frame.

9.3X62AL
01-27-2011, 02:31 AM
Good to see this thread get some CPR and revive itself.

Since my earlier postings here, I ran across a nice little Colt Police Positive x 4" in 38 S&W. Its throats are a tight .359" and grooves are .358" or just under, so I use the RCBS Cowboy Die set with the Lyman Multi-charge die with powder-through-expander spud #38P. Boolit it prefers is Lyman #358477 @ .359", and these boolits at 700-725 FPS shoot right to the sights. I don't have my data ready at hand, sorry about that.

redneckdan
01-27-2011, 08:53 AM
I can't believe I missed this GB, I have been looking for a bullet like this.

Landric
01-27-2011, 09:40 AM
I would love to see one of our custom makers make a version of this mould. As I understand it the crimp grove on this one somehow got improperly placed and, crimped in the crimp grove, the OAL is too long for Webley and Enfield .38/200 revolvers. That isn't a problem for me as I am using it in .38 Special and eventually in .38/200 in a S&W, but I'd be up for a GB with the crimp grove in the right place for a British .38/200 in case I ever decide to get myself one of those also.

9.3X62AL
01-27-2011, 02:24 PM
My NEI #169A castings have the crimp groove properly placed for fitting in the Webley-Enfield and S&W Lend-Lease revolvers. If samples would help a mouldmaker set up his/her tooling, they are just a FRB away. Lemme know.

The round flatnose cobbled up to fit the W/E revos is a potential design upgrade for field usage on critters. The "as-is" RN #169A smacks jacks like a hammer, though--maybe I'm gilding the lily a bit with this thought.

j4570
01-28-2011, 07:05 AM
The NEI #169A is the proper bullet for the Enfields. I sold my GB mold because of the crimp groove issue. I never got around to ordering an NEI.

I need to do that, as it made the Enfield shoot the best it has in a long time.

JW

Landric
01-28-2011, 09:09 AM
I started a new group buy interest thread here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=105122

3006guns
01-28-2011, 03:01 PM
Good thread......I have two Webleys in 38/200, but never loaded for either as they're 'shelf queens' at this point. That could change however.......

I loaded some .38 S&W for the first time a few years ago, using a 162 gr. semi wadcutter (Kieth) and a snifter of Bullseye. I'd always heard the cartridge was quite the target number in its day but had no experience with it.

I levelled a 5" S&W at a desert jack rabbit, took my time and squeezed. Moderate report/recoil and the bunny promptly expired...even though it seemed like it took ten minutes for the boolit to get there. Since the distance was a good 60 yards, I don't know who was more suprised.....me or the bunny. A second shot did exactly the same on another jack a few minutes later. I was impressed enough to return home and load around 200 more for the next trip. That little cartridge is fun!

Yeah, I'd better dust off those Webleys..................:bigsmyl2: