I just had to buy it! .256 Martini Cadet – Now need advice

[pertnear]

I’ve always been interested in Martini’s, me being a single-shot sorta guy. To top that off, I’ve always been interested in the .256 Win Mag. An uncle of mine had a Marlin chambered in it & we enjoyed shooting it. The icing on the cake was my rifle came with 200 bullets, 200 cases made from .357 Mag brass, a 100 factory head stamped cases, 50 factory brand new cases & a set of RCBS dies. Looks like it will be a very good cast bullet rig too!
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Here’s what I need suggestions on. The barrel is 1.0” dia, straight, no taper from action to muzzle for 20”. This appears to match the dia. of the action face. The barrel is drilled & tapped for a long scope that uses adjustable mounts for windage & elevation. I don't have a Unertl laying around, so I need to get it drilled & tapped with 2 more screws so I can fit a standard bridge or two-piece mount. How do I determine what base(s) to use that match the barrel's straight contour? I have epoxy bedded bases on bench guns before.

TIA for your ideas & suggestions.

[blackbahart]

I personally like the talley 252 420 on my martinis and this base is for strait contour .I under cut the base to go over the top of the receiver

[Texas by God]

Nice!

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[Drm50]

I had a martini BSA cadet, customized in 22 Ackley Jet, a 256 necked to 22 cal.

[dverna]

I am also a fan of the Martini. Enjoy your new gun!!

I would prefer a slimmer barrel but find the caliber interesting. I admire your spunk to shoot cast. I would be looking for a suitable jacketed bullet...I am not a very good bullet caster.

[GARD72977]

I wanted to buy that rifle bad. Even ask for pictures. You made a great purchase. You need a Unertl or Lyman Target spot on that rifle. Hope you enjoy it! Do you plan to shoot cast? I was thinking coated may work with the short neck.

[samari46]

Redfield made a base for the contender. Do not remember if the base is for the twist in rings or the older style that has the windage adjustments on the rear ring. But is cut so that you could set it up with the rear of the base over the receiver ring. Nice little martini. Leupold took over the Redfield line of scope bases so maybe check with Brownell's to see if that contender base is still made. Frank

[pertnear]

I personally like the talley 252 420 on my martinis and this base is for strait contour .I under cut the base to go over the top of the receiver
I've been trying to identify the Talley rings/mount from these numbers, but no luck. Thanks for your suggestion & hoping you might point me to where I can get more info on these.


I wanted to buy that rifle bad. Even ask for pictures. You made a great purchase. You need a Unertl or Lyman Target spot on that rifle. Hope you enjoy it! Do you plan to shoot cast? I was thinking coated may work with the short neck.
Have you priced any of those long vintage target scopes lately? Cost more than the rifle! A nice mount for a 1" tube scope would give me a lot more options. Would love to get a hold of an old Unertl some day though.


I am also a fan of the Martini. Enjoy your new gun!!

I would prefer a slimmer barrel but find the caliber interesting. I admire your spunk to shoot cast. I would be looking for a suitable jacketed bullet...I am not a very good bullet caster.
I'm not a very good bullet caster either but I like the idea of being self-sufficient in my options. I will be mostly shooting jacketed bullets. I'm hoping I can get some good info on cast bullets here & maybe do some trading or find out where I can buy some 60 gr to 70 gr cast bullets GTG. From what I've been reading, PC would be bonus too.

Thanks for all the feedback!

[john.k]

The tenon thread size is 3/4"x14 (usually,a few are 16),so a 3/4 " dia barrel seems a strange choice .....Anyway ,if it works ,it works.

[pertnear]

The tenon thread size is 3/4"x14 (usually,a few are 16),so a 3/4 " dia barrel seems a strange choice .....Anyway ,if it works ,it works.
I went back & re-measured. The barrel diameter is 1.0". Not sure how I got the 3/4" number in my head. This little gun is a new learning experience for me. I guess the bore must be cleaned from the muzzle unless I use a very flexible rod. The original forend was not fitted too well to the 1" barrel & it will need to be opened up some. It is held on with 2 screws about 7" apart tapped directly into the barrel. Someone put a cardboard washer under the front screw. There is a slotted tendon dovetailed into the barrel & it is recessed loosely into the barrel channel & serves no purpose that I can see(?) I am impressed with how smooth & tight the action is. The butt stock has some really nice figure to it - surprising considering it is the original stock. It has a "W.A." seal embossed in the stock along with a serial number that matches whats on the receiver. I was told the rifle was originally made in 1906.

[blackbahart]

talley 252 420 is for the new England firearms /h&r handy rifles 259346

[pertnear]

talley 252 420 is for the new England firearms /h&r handy rifles.

I found the base at the Talley website - Thanks blackbahart! Base has a flat bottom. Did you machine the bottom to match the barrel contour?
BTW: Beautiful rifle!

[blackbahart]

I turn my barrels to have 3 inches of straight contour from the receiver and undercut the portion to go over the receiver so there is no matching for contour .Fits nice on 1" to .900 nicely
Depending on the scope you choose you may not want to do the under cut over the receiver .

Thank you ,working on another one currently in 7mm .Won't have as nice of wood when done .Just finished chambering and test fired yesterday and fits the action nice
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[pietro]

Here’s what I need suggestions on.

The barrel is 1.0” dia, straight, no taper from action to muzzle for 20”.

I need to get it drilled & tapped with 2 more screws so I can fit a standard bridge or two-piece mount.

How do I determine what base(s) to use that match the barrel's straight contour ?




Just about any bridge or 2-piece base set intended for an evenly domed top action, like the Browning BAR, should either fit or be easily fitted (bottom contour) to your barrel.

.

[john.k]

Is this gun a Cwlth Cadet or a later BSA?.....all the later BSA s have a hole in the back of the reciever in line with the bore,so they can be cleaned from the breech .....Its also a very common mod when a Cadet is converted to a HP cal.

[pertnear]

Is this gun a Cwlth Cadet or a later BSA?.....all the later BSA s have a hole in the back of the reciever in line with the bore,so they can be cleaned from the breech .....Its also a very common mod when a Cadet is converted to a HP cal.
The rifle says BSA with stacked rifles on one side & "Commonwealth of Australia" on the other. There is a kangaroo on top of the receiver. The hole is there but I don't know how hard it is to take the breech block In-N-Out(?) Here are some pictures of the slotted hanger under the barrel - I don't get that(?) Thanks for the good info & help. The Martini is a totally new animal to me!
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[blackbahart]

it being a thin wall you tap the front pin from the left side to the right ,it should be a split pin(looks like a screw slot on rh side ),as for the hanger with slot anybody's guess as to why it is there ?

was looking at you pics again and it appears there is a safety button above the trigger on the side ,,,thats different from most and not familiar with that feature

[john.k]

The trick to take the action out is to hold the muzzle up,this should make the extractor lay back and clear the cut...Remove the retainer ,split pin comes out the right side ,open the action ,index finger thru the trigger guard ,thumb against lever ,force lever as open as possible ,tilt front down ,disengage peg in rear wall ....its out.....The action pivot pins are not retained when out ,so if they are free ,dont lose them.

[Texas by God]

It appears that the plan to mount a muzzle loader style barrel wedge in the forend gave way to using screws instead.

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[john.k]

Yes,I notice some kind of screw or button....it may interfere with removal of the action.The only safety Im familiar with is the one fitted by Sportco on some of their conversions,it fits into the trigger guard behind the trigger............incidentally,year of manufacture is 1911 for the second type BSA s,and all BSA guns made pre WW1 have very nice wood ,usually with figure ,very dense and hard.

[BigEyeBob]

Your Rifle was issued to the Western Australian cadet corps .Fairly hard to find in Australia ,most are Victorian of NSW issue.The trigger safety is a Sportco addition ,Martini Cadet rifles had no safety .They had a cocking indicator than moved up between the breech block and the action frame on the right had side .The martini is a very strong action tested by white labs in the US to 60,000 psi.However the extractor is its weakest feature ,so you need to be mindfull when handloading for it .Sportco company hasnt been operating for a very long time ,but many of thier conversions are still prevelent here in Australia.They converted thousands of Cadet rifles to 22RF , 22RFMag,22hornet , 222 Rimmed ,and many other calibers ,also they converted thousands of surplus Lee Enfields to 303/22 ,303-25 , 303-270 , 22 Hornet and a list of other calibers too long to mention .I love the small frame martini and have quite a few in my safe.I would hazard a guess that your rifle was rebarreled/ rechamberd in the US ,the forend hanger is not of the Sportco type. The action internals are fixed into the frame with a spring pin at the lower front of the frame , knock it out and with the cocking lever pull down at the front the guts will come out in one assembly .To drill a hole in the rear of the action ,the barrel will need to be removed and a threaded drill guide screwed into the barrel recess and the apropriate sized drill used to drill the hole for cleaning rod acess from the rear .The action internals will need to be removed to clean from the rear .

[Texas by God]

If your still needing a scope base; I found a Tasco #7005 cantilever base - yours if you want it, Pertnear.

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[pertnear]

Your Rifle was issued to the Western Australian cadet corps .Fairly hard to find in Australia ,most are Victorian of NSW issue.The trigger safety is a Sportco addition ,Martini Cadet rifles had no safety .They had a cocking indicator than moved up between the breech block and the action frame on the right had side .The martini is a very strong action tested by white labs in the US to 60,000 psi.However the extractor is its weakest feature ,so you need to be mindfull when handloading for it .Sportco company hasnt been operating for a very long time ,but many of thier conversions are still prevelent here in Australia.They converted thousands of Cadet rifles to 22RF , 22RFMag,22hornet , 222 Rimmed ,and many other calibers ,also they converted thousands of surplus Lee Enfields to 303/22 ,303-25 , 303-270 , 22 Hornet and a list of other calibers too long to mention .I love the small frame martini and have quite a few in my safe.I would hazard a guess that your rifle was rebarreled/ rechamberd in the US ,the forend hanger is not of the Sportco type. The action internals are fixed into the frame with a spring pin at the lower front of the frame , knock it out and with the cocking lever pull down at the front the guts will come out in one assembly .To drill a hole in the rear of the action ,the barrel will need to be removed and a threaded drill guide screwed into the barrel recess and the apropriate sized drill used to drill the hole for cleaning rod acess from the rear .The action internals will need to be removed to clean from the rear .

Thanks for the good info! Luckily, my rifle already has the hole drilled to clean from the rear. The safety blocks the hammer & it functions without any slop. Per the previous owner, you must drift the safety out left to right before dropping the internals. No slop that I can feel on lever, safety, extractor or breech block. This rifle has one of the best triggers I've ever owned - it breaks like snapping an icicle at 3 lbs! I have to believe someone that knew what they were doing worked-over the insides. The barrel has no mfg markings other than cartridge designation. Supposedly, it originally was 29" long & the owner had it cut back to 20" & target crowned. Much more appropriate for the little .256 cartridge.

As Texas-by-God noted, the barrel looks like it had a slotted tongue dovetailed in like you'd see on a muzzle-loader. The forend is very poorly fitted to the barrel & needs some work. You can even see it in the pictures. The front sits lower because the channel is too shallow up front. It is held on by two screws that go directly into the barrel with the "tongue" loosely fitted into a mortise in the stock doing nothing. The screws heads are just sunk in the wood without escutcheons. What would be the best way to fit this forend? It has to go on & then slip back due to the wood "ears" that slip into the receiver face. Is there an attachment method that works best? I'm thinking of drilling & tapping the tongue for a single screw that will hold in the middle. Maybe then float or bed solid(?) Any ideas or experience would be most appreciated!

[john.k]

All the Cadets have a trigger like a target trigger....they are target rifles ,and the Martini action doesnt bash the sear ,but gently cocks the spring.......The two screws through the wood are normal for cadet conversions ,and seem to work ok,shouldnt be too difficult to sand out the channel.......Back in the distant past ,the Australian National Benchrest competition was won year after year with Cadets converted to .222 rimmed .............so the guns have an excellent reputation for accuracy.

[LawrenceA]

I have a beautiful Martini in 22k Hornet.
The base is a peice of square bar undercut to go over the knox form.
3/8 dovetail on top.
Milled concave on the bottom.
Works a treat and looks like a qtr rib

[BigEyeBob]

Thanks for the good info! Luckily, my rifle already has the hole drilled to clean from the rear. The safety blocks the hammer & it functions without any slop. Per the previous owner, you must drift the safety out left to right before dropping the internals. No slop that I can feel on lever, safety, extractor or breech block. This rifle has one of the best triggers I've ever owned - it breaks like snapping an icicle at 3 lbs! I have to believe someone that knew what they were doing worked-over the insides. The barrel has no mfg markings other than cartridge designation. Supposedly, it originally was 29" long & the owner had it cut back to 20" & target crowned. Much more appropriate for the little .256 cartridge.

As Texas-by-God noted, the barrel looks like it had a slotted tongue dovetailed in like you'd see on a muzzle-loader. The forend is very poorly fitted to the barrel & needs some work. You can even see it in the pictures. The front sits lower because the channel is too shallow up front. It is held on by two screws that go directly into the barrel with the "tongue" loosely fitted into a mortise in the stock doing nothing. The screws heads are just sunk in the wood without escutcheons. What would be the best way to fit this forend? It has to go on & then slip back due to the wood "ears" that slip into the receiver face. Is there an attachment method that works best? I'm thinking of drilling & tapping the tongue for a single screw that will hold in the middle. Maybe then float or bed solid(?) Any ideas or experience would be most appreciated!

The original cadet forend attachment was by tapered pin through the side of the forend through a rectangular block hard soldered to the barrel.Some conversions have a dovetail machined underthe barrel and a circular "button " for want of a better word ,slides into the dovetail ,the button is threaded and a screw passes through the underside of the fore end and screws into the dovetailed button .My 222 Rimmed has this system .If your fore end is not a tight fit on the action front I dont really see that bedding will help accuraccy if thats what you are asking.My 222 has no tenon that fits into the recess in the action face ,the fore end is soley connected to the barrel with one screw ,by way of the dovetailed button .With the heavy bohler barrel I have no problems with accuracy. Cadet trigger springs can be lightened by filing a waist on the width the original being parralel sided .In later models specifically produced for target shooting there were some modifications made by aftermarket smiths in the uk by fitting ans adjustable trigger mechanism ,military issued cadets triggers were failrly heavy let off , for obvious reasons .

[john.k]

The acknowledged most accurate way to attach a two piece type forend is to a bar extending from the action body ,no contact with the barrel.This makes the whole gun insensitive to hold ,or to rest contact.....However ,due to the lightness of the action ,most Cadets have a heavy profile barrel,and all that Ive done were two screws through the wood into the barrel...For this process I had two jigs ,one for barrel ,one for wood ,to guaranteed the holes lining up exactly.....and done quickly without any measuring.

[blackbahart]

this is one way to have a forend attached without using the barrel ..But you barrel is heavy enough and you can attach to it
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[gnoahhh]

There's a guy on the ASSRA forums, "Franknore", whom makes an adapter that utilizes Unertl-style bases to mount internal adjustment scopes in place of external adjustment target/small game scopes. Go over there, introduce yourself, and inquire.

Personally, I would just bite the bullet and seek out an old Unertl/Fecker/Targetspot/Litschert scope and mount it. Their optics are excellent. They can be had from short-ish 4x and 6x small game scopes up to long-ish high magnification scopes. Diligence can reward you with something in the $500 range, and when you stop and think about it that's not a heckuva lot different than what one expects to pay for any decent scope these days.

[popper]

muzzle loader style barrel wedge Yup, old 12ga break action had that, one had a clevis pin to hold barrel on. Recoil and the whole thing fell apart!

[pertnear]

I've been working on this rifle & I discovered some more info on the underside of the barrel. Don't know if means anything special, but I thought I'd see if means anything to somebody - perhap to our shooter's down-under.

.257 1-10 D.W.H. 1991

The first few digits are obviously the caliber & twist & I'm guessing 1991 is when the work was done, but does D.W.H. (probably the gunsmith's) ring a bell?

TIA

[Drm50]

Here’s pic of BSA Cadet I had in 22 Ackley Jet. I know who made it and a couple dozen more floating around the area. All have Douglas barrels and most were chambered 218 Bee.261717