Are Lyman molds really this bad, or is it just me?

[ceemack]

I've always used Lee molds in the past. But with a new .44 and Lee not offering a mold for a Keith-type .430 bullet, I shelled out for a four-cavity Lyman mold for the 429421 bullet.

I sat down to use it for the first time today, and could not be more disappointed. I knew they'd take extra warm-up (beyond sitting on the edge of the pot), but after at least a dozen pours a substantial portion of the melt was used up and I still hadn't turned out one properly-formed bullet. Everything I cast had to go right back in the pot. Not a very efficient use of time.

Worse, the sprue sticks like glue to the sprue plate, and the bullets hang up in the mold even though I smoked the chambers before I started. And I have to whack that sprue cutter so hard I may start using a sledge for it.

I've never had a cheap Lee mold perform so badly.

What am I missing?

[StuBach]

I’ve never had issues with any of my iron molds performing like that.

Did you first degrease the whole thing and take it to the pot dry? Is the mold new or used?

I’ve never known anyone to say you need to smoke an iron mold. I take mine in completely cleaned and dry and casting is a joy.

[stubshaft]

Lead too cold, mold too cold or combination of both. This is not to say that Lyman's are infallible because I have had a couple of dogs along the way, but this has usually been regarding size and mold misalignment.

[waksupi]

That's a lot of steel you are trying to heat. You're no where near hot enough. Get a hotplate to set the mold on for preheat. It sounds like you could use a bigger pot if you are going to run a gang mold. If you are using a dipper, you most likely will never have good results.

[cupajoe]

Gonna take a lot of heat to bring a 4 cavity iron mold up to temp. If the bullets are sticking even though they are not filled out proper, that could be a bad sign. How hot are you running your alloy?

[Winger Ed.]

Keep working with it.

The problem isn't the mold.

[Walks]

Yep, gotta really heat that mold up. It sounds like your sprue plate might be too tight. If it's a New Mold, you might think about polishing the bottom of the sprue plate, tape some Aluminum Oxide - 220grit to a glass surface and run the detached sprue plate bottom over it in a circular fashion for a couple of minutes.
And if you're Dipper casting, you are wasting your time. There is no way to cast 4 good bullets with a Dipper, even the larger RCBS Dipper. Only bottom pour will work.
And a 4cav mold takes a harder strike to bust 4 sprues. Instead of having the striking tab on the sprue plate in the back, try turning the mold around 180degrees in the handles and turning it 90degrees to strike the sprue plate tab from the top.

[rockrat]

Look at Arsenal molds too

[Bazoo]

I rest my moulds in the melt a few minutes to heat them. I put my dipper in and set the mould so a good corner plus the sprue cutter tab is touching lead but so it won't fall in. I rubber band the handles so they won't accidentally come open and cause grief. This gets the mould and handles up to temperature or a touch hotter fast. Then I let the mould cool while I flux and I'm real close to ready, temperature wise.

[greenjoytj]

Be sure to use a single burner electric hot plate to preheat your mold.
Get your melt at least to 750*F I hope your using a thermometer.
Be sure the sprue cutter is actually a bit sharp and smooth on the bottom. Put some 600 grit aluminum oxide sandpaper on a sheet of glass and slide the sprue plate around to remnant burrs.
2 dozen casts on a new mold is nothing to start breaking in a new mold.
Clean the mold well use a spray can of brake cleaner.
I have a 4 cavity Lyman 452664 it works great now, but it took 4 casting sessions.
The break in period is for the mold and the caster.
Smoking a mold has never work for me, only a clean mold and hot 750*f + tin lead alloy.
Lyman molds are designed for Lyman #2 alloy.

[Dan Cash]

That's a lot of steel you are trying to heat. You're no where near hot enough. Get a hotplate to set the mold on for preheat. It sounds like you could use a bigger pot if you are going to run a gang mold. If you are using a dipper, you most likely will never have good results.

Exactly what is said above except regarding a ladle. I use a ladle but it is a 1 cup ladle and the pot holds about 70 pounds of melt. To run a .44 mould with 4 or 5 holes in it, it takes a lot of heat and a lot of lead, both in the pot and in the ladle.

[Dusty Bannister]

New iron molds need to form that oxide coating to help with alloy sticking to the surface. No mention of correctly lubricating the pins and hinge bolt or bottom of the sprue place. It is not unusual to have a learning curve when switching mold materials. If the sprue is hard to cut within a few seconds that should be shouting at you that the mold, alloy or plate is cold and you need more heat and less waiting. If you have a 10 pound pot, and pouring 240 grain bullets, you probably draw about 2,000 grains per casting cycle. That is about three cycles per pound and you only use about half a pot before refilling. You may need to make much smaller ingots, keep the temp up, and keep adding ingots more frequently and hope everything stays up to temp. If you are casting in a cold ambient air temp, or a breeze you are not going to keep up.

[Larry Gibson]

Keep working with it.

The problem isn't the mold.

+1...….

[ceemack]

Thanks for the replies.

My six-cavity Lee molds have given no similar problems in the past. Sprees cut with much less effort and rarely stick to the plate.

I degreased the mold per instructions, ahead of time. Locator pins had a dab of anti-seize.

A hot plate for pre-heating is an interesting idea. Gotta clear some more space on the bench, I guess.

I don’t use a dipper, but a bottom-pour Lee furnace. Had it up near the top of the temperature range.

What’s the best lube for the sprue plate?

[Dusty Bannister]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/google.php?cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885%3A1942134700&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=best+sprue+plate+lube&siteurl=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fshowthread.php% 3F398453-Are-Lyman-molds-really-this-bad-or-is-it-just-me%26p%3D4856405%23post4856405&ref=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fforumdisplay.php%3F 8-Cast-Boolits&ss=4212j1024624j21&sa.x=14&sa.y=13

Copy and paste this link and you will have done an archive search and have hundreds of opinions as to what the best lube is, and how to apply it and why you need to do it. Welcome to the forum. The "Search" box is just below the banners at the upper right corner of the page. Type in the question and click the icon.

[oldhenry]

2 cycle oil is best for the sprue plate. Use it sparingly. With a Q-tip put some on the top side of each pour hole on the sprue plate tp prevent metal sticking.

Your best investment would be a hot plate. They're cheap @ Walmart or similar stores.

Heat is your friend.

Keep at it. I have five 4 cav. Lyman molds (includes a 429421) & they produce beautiful boolits. You'll find that once you get them up to the proper temp they hold their temp better that the aluminum molds.

[onelight]

I have a 4 cavity 429421 and they do take longer to get up to temp than aluminum molds . My experiences match the advise from others here preheat it and be patient they will give you some nice bullets when you get the routine down . I have cast more bullets with that 429421 4 cavity than all my other molds combined have had it since the early 80s.

[prs]

There is iron in Waksupi's words.

prs

[44Blam]

I have one Lyman mold it is the 429640. It's the 250 grain 44 cal devatator. It takes a long time to make a pile of boolits because it only drops one at a time...

But they do turn out nice:
258906

[Bazoo]

I like graphite for lubing a mould. Take the sprue plate off.

(While it's off, Check to make sure the cutting edges on the holes are sharp. If they aren't, you can lap the bottom of the sprue plate as suggested. If they are real dull you can do several things, but taking a center punch, put it in the hole and hit it from the top, to press it down some works well in my experience. Then lap it on a plate to flatten it again.)

Color the bottom of the sprue cutter with a carpenters pencil. Then do the top of the mould blocks, the alignment pins, and the sprue cutter pivot screw. This helps reduce lead smear as well as lubing the mould.

I never could get the feel of using 2 cycle oil. I either used too much or it felt as though there was no lube.

[kungfustyle]

That's a lot of steel you are trying to heat. You're no where near hot enough. Get a hotplate to set the mold on for preheat. It sounds like you could use a bigger pot if you are going to run a gang mold. If you are using a dipper, you most likely will never have good results.

+1 The mold will break in. Get it up to temp and you are off and running. Try casting with an aluminum mold when its 30 deg's out and you will love the Lyman mold. A hot plate will help and it(the mold will be your best friend)

[DocSavage]

Big difference in casting techniques going from aluminum to steel/iron.
Iron is going to take awhile to get up to temp,I have 1 4 cavity mold and have to use an external heat source to get it to working temp. Have to admit I'm spoiled using NOE and Accurate aluminum molds. The advice others have given you should be taken as gospel apply the advice and with some patience you'll be cranking out bullets big time.

[Walks]

I cast as fast as I can from 3 Lyman 4cav molds and use a Lyman Mag-20, empties a pot almost as fast as 3 Lee 6cav molds, use a RCBS Pro-Melt w/N.O.E. mold guide. I use the Lube stuff that came with My first N.O.E. mold, wipe it on the top of the mold with a q-tip and wipe it off with the other end. And a bit on the alignment pins. Leave it on though.

Patience is a virtue to be cultivated.

[Taterhead]

I agree with the previous posters about heat. Regarding the sprue plate hanging on to sprues, that sounds familiar. As does the mold hanging on to bullets. Here is a thread with details.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?375657-New-Lyman-4-Cavity-Mold-First-Impressions&highlight=Lyman

[lightman]

Welcome to Cast Boolits! Sorry to hear that you are having trouble with your Lyman mold.

Like the others have said, there is a learning curve for the different types of mold material. Your reject bullets sound like a low temp problem. Try turning the heat up on your pot and waiting a little longer before starting to cast. And try pre-warming the mold. A cheap hot plate from Walmart works very well for this.

Address your other problems one at a time. First of all I have never needed to smoke the cavities in any mold that I have. I would give them a good cleaning with an old tooth brush and brake cleaner. Then rub a cotton swab around the cavities looking for burrs or rough spots. These can be delt with by carefully stoning the offending burr.

Next I would carefully look at the sprue plate. The bottom of the funnel looking hole should be sharp and the hole itself should be smooth. If not, you might look for a countersink of the proper shape and work on them.

There is a sticky about how to properly lube a mold that will give you some tips. Check it out and buy you a 2oz bottle of synthetic 2 cycle oil.

If you are casting from a smaller capacity casting pot you are going to spend a lot of time filling it up and fluxing when using a larger gang mold. I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that you are going to empty the pot pretty quick.

Last but not least. Lyman has had their share of problems. Their older molds, say pre 1970, were very good. Then there were some years afterwards that the sprue plate would gouge out chunks of metal from the top of the mold. There were also some years that their molds cast bullets that were smaller diameter than what was advertised. And some of their molds had dull sprue cutters, kind of like what you are describing.

Good Luck working through this. You can deal with everything that I described. And feel free to ask more questions.

[toallmy]

You will get it figured out , just keep at it .
You can set a piece of steel plate on a electric burner to preheat your mold just to try it .

[bedbugbilly]

A lot of good advice and perhaps the best - keep it hot and work with it.

I have cast for over 55 years in a lot of different molds. I admire those here who are into the technical end fo things - alloying, etc. I am a "ladle caster" and very "low tech" - I have always had two pots - one for pure ead for BP and one or "range lead" - I have cast over wood fire coal, propane burners and now as I'm older and don't like the tanks, hoses, etc. I have two electric pots. Keeping those things in mind . . . .

I have owned perhaps four of the Lyman/Ideal 4 cavity molds - notice I said "have". You have to get them heat up, keep your lead hot and get your cadence down - not easy at times. Like many here, I have bought new molds, used molds - have gotten stung on a few of them but hey, it's a learning experience. Then thing I have found through it all - at least for me - is that I much prefer a set of aluminum blocks when it comes to a multiple cavity mold (more than two cavities). For me, they are easier to handle due to the weight and I can easily keep them up to heat as opposed to a Lyman 4 cavity that has the weight of an engine block - some like them and that's fine as we all like different things. I have gotten to the point where I have weeded out a to o my molds - I still love Ideal/Lyman single and double cavity molds - as pointed out - maybe it takes longer but after a couple of pours, you don't have to cull out bad ones. Now, when I look at my molds, I am surprised at how many 3. 4 and 5 cavity molds I have from NOE in aluminum. I have a 5 cavity for 454-190 255 grain style that I have no problems keeping hot and using a ladle on and I pre-heat and just start pouring and dropping. Everybody has their likes and dislikes - most of us want to be able to make a big pile in a short time - keep working with you Lyman and you'll find what works for you on it but keep it hot and keep your lead hot. Good luck!

[Jack Stanley]

Maybe they have got better since the last four mold I bought from them twelve years ago . Even after they fixed them they weren't right . That said , my learning curve with Lyman began with one of their molds in 1976 and it worked well . Patience and a large hammer some distance away is a good thing to have .

Jack

[Traffer]

I heat my molds up with a torch...lots of heat ...works fast. I usually start with frosty bullets and let it cool A BIT.

[trapper9260]

Yep, gotta really heat that mold up. It sounds like your sprue plate might be too tight. If it's a New Mold, you might think about polishing the bottom of the sprue plate, tape some Aluminum Oxide - 220grit to a glass surface and run the detached sprue plate bottom over it in a circular fashion for a couple of minutes.
And if you're Dipper casting, you are wasting your time. There is no way to cast 4 good bullets with a Dipper, even the larger RCBS Dipper. Only bottom pour will work.
And a 4cav mold takes a harder strike to bust 4 sprues. Instead of having the striking tab on the sprue plate in the back, try turning the mold around 180degrees in the handles and turning it 90degrees to strike the sprue plate tab from the top.

I cat with a large ladle for 6 cav molds and 4 cav molds and I have no problems with the boolits come out good after you get the mold and alloy up to temp mainly the mold. I normal run my alloy hot and when the mold is up to frost boolits then I lower the heat some and make sure the mold stay up to temp.But I normal use a large ladle to cast with when not use the bottom pour .

[gwpercle]

If a brand new steel mould it has to be broken in ...three practice casting sessions w/ slow cool down will usually do it .
Anti-seize or synthetic 2 stroke oil , on a Q-Tip , lube the sprue holes and sprue plate (top & underside very lightly)
Jack up the heat ...metal and mould 750 degrees to start .

Advice...get at least a 20 pound pot , 3 and 4 cavity moulds need it .
Let sprues cool before cutting , steel holds heat & takes longer for sprue to set up .
Gary

[OS OK]

"Sprues sticking to the sprue plate..."

I found the same thing with a new Lyman 4 cavity...I didn't think they cut the angled sprue fill hole deep enough. Mine had 3/16'' or so at the bottom of the sprue plate that was straight drilled, not an angle where at the bottom there is a sharp cutting edge.
Either shear the sprue or cut the sprue, I chose cutting and this is the diamond tool I repaired the sprue plate with.
I kept grinding at it till the bottom was a sharp opening, I sanded the bottom of the plate to prevent any burrs and got on with easy casting thereafter.

https://i.imgur.com/J1CRYwg.jpg

[onelight]

That's a good idea OS

[45DUDE]

NEW TO THE FORUM-I have been casting 25 years or so. I have about 17 Lyman Ideal and RCBS molds and a couple of the Lyman do that. I finally blamed it on the sharp edges but the bullets are really nice. I have a screwdriver with a 90 bend on the end I ruffed up that gets them loose easy enough. The boolits are not really stuck because I can close the mold and with a little pressure with the screwdriver they fall out. Smoking with a candle helps also. I put some wd 40 on one when it was still warm before storage and I won't do that again. The mold would not make a pretty bullet after that. A heat plate helped a little. I ended up sticking the mold in the lead pot about 800 degrees for a few seconds with it open a little and let it cool down. <You cant do that with a Lee>I used it about an hour latter and it worked fine except for one cavity on the end. After 15 or 20 pores it came around. I suppose it got hot enough to release the wd40 from the pores. I set my molds on the top of my pots to heat up when I cast and they are ready to go.

[samari46]

I sent back a 311284 gas check mold to lyman. Cast undersize on the bore riding section. They reamed it out and although you could see the reamer marks, still cast undersize. And two 45 rifle bullet molds that cast way too small. the only three I have from Lyman is a 311316 gc for the 32-20, two 314299's that actually cast .314 on the body and .303-.304 on the nose. I will not ever buy another lyman mold. Next ones will come from Accurate Molds. Frank

[ceemack]

This thread has given me a lot to think about, and I’ve finally come to a conclusion: it’s not me. Lyman molds really are this bad.

A closer look at the spruce plate showed that it hadn’t been chamfered all the way. There was a sizable blunt edge at the bottom of the spruce holes. No wonder I had to pound so hard and still got such sloppy spruce cuts. If I were going to keep using this mold, I’d have to re-chamfer and re-blue the spruce holes. I could, but I find I don’t really want to.

I’ve got a hot plate out in the garage, and I could clear some bench space for it. But when I pictured having a red-hot electric burner on the bench, in addition to a furnace full of molten lead, it seemed like a silly and dangerous idea. I know people do it, but it’s not a way I want to go.

Putting three or four pots full of metal through the mold before it starts turning out good bullets just seems like a waste of time.

I ordered an aluminum mold from Accurate Molds. A bit spendy, but should be much better quality...and easier to work with.

The Lyman will be on eBay sometime soon. I’ll buy Lee molds when they’ve got the bullet design I need, and Accurate when they don’t. No more Lyman molds for me, ever.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[Elpatoloco]

I bought my last mould from lyman in 2009. Its a 452374 or some such. It makes real pretty undersized bullets. I started powdercoating last week and now have a use for the mould. Linotype, lyman#2, wheel weights....all undersized.
I bought a lee tc 356-124tl. It makes good bullets after 2 hours of working on it. Well, 5 cavities make good bullets. The first cavity is junk. My last lee mould.

Everything I buy from this point forward will be from Accurate. Never an issue.

[sutherpride59]

+100 on the hot plate. For all my brass and steel molds I put it on the plate 10-15 minutes before I start casting to get it up to temp. I have a cheap Walmart one that I bought online that on full blast will heat my molds to the right temp so that the boolits are just a tiny bit frosty at the start. In that case cheaper is better because it won’t heat up enough to worry about warping any brass molds if you decide to buy them in the future. YMMV

[Outer Rondacker]

I have not had good luck with the steel molds. My first experience was with slug molds. Wow do you need to get them you almost can’t handle them. I had three all where the same. Next was a four banger in 358. Same thing. Then the famous Lyman 2 cav TC 9mm bullet. With this mold I just couldn’t keep it hot enough. I added more soft lead and then I seamed to get a good looking bullet. Problem was now it was just to soft. My last experience with a Lyman Mold is 314299av. I do have to run it hot but it produces a great bullet. This mold was gifted to me by our famous 3O3 enthusiast so I do not know how many casting sessions it has had. This mold will stay in my collection and service until I die.

What am I getting at with all this is. I feel bullet shape and size versus the steel around it makes a huge difference. Honestly I like most of Lee’s molds. If they don’t work most of the time I can fix it. I have never been lucky enough to case with a brass mold.

This is not a review, just my experience I have chosen to share.