I Goofed

[Gohon]

Last couple days I cast around 3,000 bullets of various calibers. About 500 of these were 300 grain 45 caliber for the H&R 45 Colt rifle. Got them sized and gas checked I was ready for the final coating of LLA. On the shelf I had a box of about 200 bullets from the same batch of mix I had done about a month ago so I thought what the heck I'll just mix these all together, put the LLA on and stow them all together. Only after I had done this did I look at the note in the bullets on the shelf and realize they were water dropped and the ones I had just cast were air cooled. Now they are all mixed and I don't know which is which. Gotta start paying closer attention to what I'm doing. :(

[Wayne Smith]

Yup, you do. But, at those speeds it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

[kir_kenix]

I wouldn't think that at the moderate velocity of the .45 colt that you would run into any problems either way. I water drop most of my boolits just out of habit, but I don't think that in the majority of handguns it is a requirement.

If it were me, I'd shoot them off and not worry about it one bit.

[Gohon]

Problem is, I shoot these out of a rifle and I had been pushing the water dropped bullets up just shy of 1600 fps with good results and no leading. Absolutely great hog medicine. I know the air cooled bullets were a lot easier going through the Lee sizer when installing gas checks than the water dropped bullets so there is a noticeable difference in hardness. As said probable not enough difference to worry about and both may shoot to the same point of impact. I think I may just swirl the lube off in carburetor cleaner, oven heat treat them and re-lube. Some extra work but at least I would have peace of mind on consistency. Of course it is a good excuse to buy one of those LBT hardness testers.

[Gunslinger]

Yeah, too bad. The first time I cast bullets by myself, I didn't pay attention to the Lee alu mold, and apparently a little lead had found its way in between the top of the mold and the thing that cuts of the surplus lead on top of the bullets :killingpc

Which means that about 1000 bullets have an extra chunk of lead at the buttom... I sorted them out but as I calibrated the rest, I found that some of the ones I put into the "okay" pile, were also a bit inconsistent.

Should I recast the bad ones, or just cut off the surplus lead in the buttom?
Sorry for this :hijack:

[Bullshop]

Me thinks you goofed twice. You said the quenched boolits went through the sizer noticably harder. That was your second chance.
What did you size them to? If .452" or larger maybe you could get away with .001" smaller and have a third try.
BIC/BS

[Gohon]

I don't know why I would want to go smaller on the sizer since the present outcome is a bullet that fits my bore very well which results in good shooting bullets for my gun. The sizer is .452 and the quenched bullets were simply noticeably harder to run through while crimping on the gas checks, which only makes sense if the material being pushed through the sizer is harder. Point was if there is a difference in force required to push a quenched bullet compared to a air cooled bullet through, then that would seem to be a good indication there is a difference in hardness of the two. This is probable, or at least may make a difference on performance of the bullet on game and possible accuracy.

[happy7]

If they are not gas checked bullets, they will certainly do fine for plinking. If you are doing serious accuracy work, then you would want to recast. If they require a gas check, then you will find that knob of lead sticking out will interfere with seating the gas check.


Yeah, too bad. The first time I cast bullets by myself, I didn't pay attention to the Lee alu mold, and apparently a little lead had found its way in between the top of the mold and the thing that cuts of the surplus lead on top of the bullets :killingpc

Which means that about 1000 bullets have an extra chunk of lead at the buttom... I sorted them out but as I calibrated the rest, I found that some of the ones I put into the "okay" pile, were also a bit inconsistent.

Should I recast the bad ones, or just cut off the surplus lead in the buttom?
Sorry for this :hijack:

[runfiverun]

i purposely mixed w drop and plain ww together
and also shot separately.
at 1400 to 1500 i didn't see a bit of difference.
through either rifle or pistol.
till you get over 1800 it don't really matter unless they are causing leading.

[grumpy one]

Gohon, I think the point Dan (Bullshop) was making is that it sounds as if you sized the water-dropped bullets after they had hardened up. When you size a hardened bullet you work-soften it, and the driving bands can end up as soft, or softer, than an air-cooled bullet. You should never do this - either size immediately after casting, before the bullets harden up, or oven heat-treat rather than water dropping.

As you have said, you can recover the situation by oven heat treating all of the bullets to whatever hardness you want. That should even undo whatever damage has been caused by sizing after hardening.

[Gunslinger]

If they are not gas checked bullets, they will certainly do fine for plinking. If you are doing serious accuracy work, then you would want to recast. If they require a gas check, then you will find that knob of lead sticking out will interfere with seating the gas check.


I should have been more specific. The bullets are 120gr TC, in 9mm and .38 special (without gas checks). They are used exclusively for a tactical shooting with flipping targets at 13 yards, so speed is more of the essence than accuracy is. Though some of the bullets simply won't go into the sizer due to the extra lumps at the buttom. But at 13 yards I can't possibly screw up the bullets by cutting off the excess lead can I?

[Gohon]

This old mind of mine is rather slow these days but eventually I do get there. It make sense about when to size the bullets and as I recall the water dropped bullets were sized about 48 or so hours after casting where as the air cooled ones were sized that same night as cast. I don't intend to waste all those gas checks so recasting is out of the question and I've oven heated with gas checks on before without any problems. The wife is gone all day today so I have the oven all to myself. Gotta check over on LASC for the correct temperature. If I remember correctly Rick Kelters formula I used last time was 415 degrees for one hour for an approximate 16-17 BHN.

[happy7]

I should have been more specific. The bullets are 120gr TC, in 9mm and .38 special (without gas checks). They are used exclusively for a tactical shooting with flipping targets at 13 yards, so speed is more of the essence than accuracy is. Though some of the bullets simply won't go into the sizer due to the extra lumps at the buttom. But at 13 yards I can't possibly screw up the bullets by cutting off the excess lead can I?

At first I thought you were talking about a knob where the sprue plate hole was. If you are talking about extra lead at edge of the base of the bullet, then it is harder to visualize what you have. If you can size them, I would think you can still shoot them but accuracy will be more affected. Anytime you have inconsistancies at the edge of the base of a bullet, then that will affect accuracy more than just about any other defect. If you cut the lead off at the edge of the base, you will not have a round base anymore, correct? That would really affect accuracy. But I don't know how much at 13 yards. I would just load some up and try them out and if they shoot acceptably, I wouldn't worry about it. Otherwise recast them. Another idea is to back off your lube pressure and size them first nose first. Then run them through again base first in order to lube them.

[44man]

Been watching this and it is wide open for me! :mrgreen: I can't resist any longer.
Throw every boolit against a steel plate and the ones that go TINK are the hard ones! :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:
OK, OK, just shoot them, I don't think you will find a difference except a tiny change in POI. Not enough to worry about either.
Be happy you have so many nice boolits.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Okay, I`ve been reading all the advice on this "problem. Here`s my $.02 on this. Firstly you could set aside any boolit that felt odd when lubeing. Secondly you can just go ahead and shoot them all as not quenched. And thirdly you now have an excuse to start up the pot and make a new batch of quenched boolits. :roll: :Fire:

[Gohon]

Well, what I finally did was took the bullets and put about 50 at a time in a jar with some carburetor cleaner and swirled them around to clean off all the lube. Air dried them, then heat treated them in the oven. Ran all of them back through the sizer to make sure the checks were on tight and now all I have to do is re-lube them. I'll give them 4-5 days to reach hardness and put them to work. These 300 grain, actually 314 grain with checks installed are my hog and deer loads for the 45 colt out of a H&R Buffalo Classic rifle. Loading them at the top end of Ruger and TC data these things will put a real hurt on a hog and punch all the way through even when a shoulder is hit. Had these been some of my 250 grain plain base casts I'd have just shot them up. Only problem I have now is getting that smell out of the kitchen before the better half gets home. I do appreciate all the tips from everyone.....

[runfiverun]

it might be a bit late for this but if you microwave some popcorn for about 20 seconds too long.....

[docone31]

You can also spray brake cleaner in the kitchen. It will hide the scent of the oven work.
Just watch any pilot lights. Might get too exciting there.