222 Remington versus 223 Remington - why one over the other?

[bedbugbilly]

I didn’t really know where to post this but figured I might get some good info and responses from members if I post it here. My background is that I have cast and shot black powder for over 55 years – only got interested in cartridges and reloading maybe 15 or so years ago – as far as rifle, have reloaded 30-30, 8 X 57 Mauser and 308. A short while ago, here in AZ where we winter, I got acquainted with a nice young fellow and we go shooting once in a while. He has a number of ARs and I had the opportunity to shoot them – not my cup of tea but we all like different things. However, he has one set up for bench shooting and I fell in love with the .223 cartridge as I was amazed at what he could do with it out of his AR that he has set up for bench shooting – he’s a good shooter and I really believe he could shave a flea at 600 yards with it without blinking an eye – impressive.

So, I posted a thread about various .223 rifles as I wanted a bolt action primarily for plinking and paper punching at a variety of distances (we shoot out in the desert) Long story short, I bought a Ruger American Ranch bolt action rifle, have put a Leopold scope on it as I am “older” and have some vision issues. For starting out I think it's a good entry level rifle and who knows what it it might lead to down the road. Anyway, when I made the post looking for a rifle, one member responded that I should look for a good used bolt gun in 222 Remington. By then, I had already committed to the Ruger and have no regrets, but it has peaked my curiosity about the 222 Remington cartridge as well. I have always cast and shot them in my bottlenecks but for the Ruger Ranch, I will be using FMJ.

In my reading, I know the .222 Remington (5.7 X 43) came out earlier than the .223 Remington (5.56 X 46 for all intent and purposes) and that the 222 was popular in Europe for hunting, etc. The 222 evidently didn’t pass the military trials, but the 223 did and of course, was used in the M16.

In looking at the specs on a 222 case and a 223 case, there is very little difference other than the overall length and the shoulder angle for the most part, which I am sure also interprets into a difference in case volume, but for the most part, they appear to be very close. Not being that familiar yet with either of them other than the 223 that I have reloaded, I would guess that if I picked up 222 brass and 223 brass at a range, I would have to look at the headstamp just to make sure which was which (I have not handled a 222 casing).

So, my question/s is/are this/these. If you had two identical bolt action rifles – same barrel length, etc. but one chambered in 222 Remington and one in 223 Remington . . . which would you choose and why. If you shot the two side by side, is there any real difference as far as shooting at reasonable ranges? Both cartridges seem to be popular for shooting from a bench as well as hunting varmints close up or at longer ranges whether it be smaller prairie dogs or larger coyotes, etc. Does one of the cartridges really out-perform the other in some significant way whether it be bench shooting, plinking or varmint elimination?

If a person was starting out and looking at both a 222 and a 223, are there other factors that influence leaning one way or the other? Just from general looking, brass for both the 222 and 223 are readily available – Starline and others offer them – perhaps the 223 might be favored a bit because the 5.56 range brass is easily found that can be used for the 223 but to me, that is a minor thing and it appears that both can utilize the 55 grain and under jacketed rounds (or cast).

As I said, I’m just getting my feet wet on the 223 and the bolt action rifle and I think I will be perfectly happy with the 223 for what I want it for. Perhaps I am missing something in regards to reading and why a person would go with one over the other? I would love to hear from those who shoot either the 222 or 223 in a traditional style rifle (not AR) as to why they went with the cartridge they did for the purpose they use it for.

Not trying to start a debate over the two cartridges, just trying to understand the two and their general performance.

Many thanks.

[Preacher Jim]

The answer would depend on the yardage you are shooting. If bench rest give me my 222 everytime. If longer distances i might pull out my 223 bolt rifle. Yes i have a 24" match heavy barreled AR that is quite accurate. But i hate preping brass and chasing it or having a brass catcher hanging off my rifle. My AR and bolt 223 both shoot good but my groups up to 200 are better with my 222. Just my opinion.

[Texas by God]

Based on 24" barrels, the .223 will basically out run the .222 by 2-300 fps. A 16" .223 is basically a .222 ballistic wise. The 14" twist of the .222 maybe better for cast but I dont know that for fact. Both of these;and the .221 and .222 magnum are all excellent cartridges.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[wnc435]

222 I have been prairie dog hunting for over 30 yrs. I have a Rem 788 in 222 have only shot 52gr hp bullets and 50gr. cast through it still has original barrel doesn't shoot as well as it used to. Have had and have been with many others with 223's they can't reach any farther and are always amazed that that little 222 gets them that far out have hundreds of kills over 600 yds no they don't spray they just get taken. fun to be able to watch in the scope. Hand loading is needed for P Dog hunting just shiver thinking how much it would cost to buy ammo. and that long neck sure don't hurt barrel life. I also shoot a 6mm Rem and have had several 243's with the long neck. It's a personal preference for me. Nope no cheap ammo but a lot of 223 brass to resize to 222 trim and inside ream. I also have an AR-15 in 222 with 24" bull barrel because I can. All rifle rounds can be accurate some just don't stay accurate as long as others. Mostly it's about personal preference. Oh and by the way the 50gr cast can do it well out to 200yds again no spray. but will take them or a ride off the mound.

[dangitgriff]

22-250, hands down.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200319/5e205b8717506d4702bf95a6b0310eb1.jpg

[rking22]

You wouldn’t have trouble yelling a 222 from a 223, 222 has a notably longer neck. I can tell without bending over, I won’t bend over for a 223 case. If you want to shoot bullets heavier than 55 gr the modern crop of 223s will do it better, lots better, due to differing twist rates. For me, 222 for cast and it’s plenty fast enough for varmint hunting in my world. If you like buying cheap blasting ammo for coke cans at 50 yards go 223, not much 222 ammo generally available. Either will make you smile with their accuracy in a decent rifle.

[jimb16]

I like my bull barreled .222 Rem. 700 BDL. At 100 yards you get change back from a dime with my 5 shot groups! None of my .223s will do that, not even my single shot! And the .222 loves cast as well.

[charlie b]

I have had both and they are very close performance wise for shorter range work. The .222 is more efficient for closer work where you don't need the max velocity of the .223. Both do well with light bullets at moderate ranges.

What I have now is a cheap Savage Axis in .223 with a heavy barrel. It is a 1/2 MOA rifle and I can keep all the shots inside MOA out to 600yd if I dope the wind right. IMHO, a 7 or 8 twist would be best but the 9 twist I have now works just fine. It has given me 1 1/2 MOA at 1000yd.

258830258831

PS I am not that good a shooter so this rifle could probably do better in the hands of someone who really knew what they were doing.

[dverna]

You have a .223. Just play with it and see if it meets your needs. Would you really buy a new gun to shrink groups 1/4 MOA? There is so much variation gun to gun that even in the same caliber, accuracy varies.

You are over thinking it. I had a .222. It was a great rifle. But all I have now are .223/5.56...two bolt guns and four AR’s. I have no desire or need for a .222. .223 brass is free or cheap. Tons of cheap factory ammunition if optimum accuracy is not needed. No desire to ever cast for it but could if I wanted to.

Unless you want to invest in a custom rifle, and have the ability to shoot it well, I doubt a used .222 will shoot better than a new factory .223.

Just out of curiosity, what accuracy are you getting with the Ruger using match bullets?

[Texas by God]

Nailed it, dangitgriff:-)

[NyFirefighter357]

The .222 Rem on average is more accurate than the .223 Rem. I'm guessing your not going to see a big difference between the 2 calibers unless your shooting rifles that are at the higher end of the price ranges. If our looking for another accurate bench shooter look at something in the 6mm class.

[samari46]

The triple duce held most of all the benchrest records until the PPC cartridges came out. I had a single shot 40x in 222 rem. Although quite younger back then it out shot just about anything especially with the 52-55 grain match core-lokt bullets Remington sold back then. I had absolutely no problems selling it when it came the time. The 223 Rem is probably one of the most popular cartridges due to the many rifles chambered for it,availability of mil surp ammo and like just all the previous U.S. military cartridges '06,308,M1 carbine and now the 223/5.56 and the hoards of brass and bullets abound. My favorite load for the 222 was R-P case, 19 grains IMR 4198,7.5 R-P copper colored primer and any good 52-55 grain bullet. Sierra makes some darn good bullets,that's all I use. Frank

[RU shooter]

Inside of 300 yds either will do the same on paper or varmits . Longer ranges I pick the 223 with heavier bullets . I can say I've never had a 223 rifle or any rifle that would out shoot my older Rem varmit BDL in 222 with 52 gr match bullets .

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you all for your kind responses - an interesting "education". :-)

In regards to the comparison of the 222 and 223 casing - what I was looking at was the general dimensions of the two and the one thing I overlooked was the length of the neck on the 222 - so I can see how you'd distinguish then easily enough if picking them up off the ground.

As far as "overthinking" it - that's not what my intention for posting was about. I was just comparing the two and really, trying to figure out why you would go with one over the other as far as such things as plinking, shooting what i would consider normal distances (based on my background) and for varmints - and those were answered very well.

The "22s" are new to me. I was brought up in Michigan where most of our hunting on the farm was not at great distances - lower Michigan. "High Powered" rifles weren't allowed below a certain line across the state - I did hunt in the UP with my father-in-law but most was woods hunting (he was a state Forester and knew where to go) - and that was with his Win. 94 30-30 or a 8mm Mauser I had. Even then, I would not have taken a shot at probably more than 75 yards because fo the terrain we hunted in. Where I was brought up on the farm, deer hunting was by shotgun with slugs. Most of my hunting was done with original muzzleloaders and for many years, all I shot was .58 caliber rifled muskets - mostly original 1861 Springfields and then, only a few times at distances further than 100 yards. As far as varmint hunting - when I was a kid, that was pretty much limited to fox hunting on the farm and the distances were not that far either. Out here (AZ where we winter), where I shoot with my friend, longer distances are the norm. I always enjoyed reading about hunting prairie dogs, etc. at long distances but that was to when we experienced where I was fought up. When I saw what the .223 was capable of, it really intrigued me and thus my interest in getting one.

I know the 222 was popular in Europe as well as here and that it pre-dates the 223. I'm sure the 222 ha survived due to o many rifles being made in it, etc. and if I am not mistaken, they still are being made. Some cartridges do become obsolete over time though - look at5 the 38 special which replaced the 38 Colt long which came about due to the 38 Colt short - I still reload the 38 Colt Long and Short as I like shooting historical cartridges in my 1851 Uberti R & M conversion - but back to the 222 and 223 - not having a whole lot of experience with either, I was curious as to why one over the other and in reality, I wonder if at some point in time the 222 will die a slow death since the 223 might out perform it a little better - or quite possibly it will never die out.

I am not anticipating owning a 223 and a 222 - but then again, one never knows what they will run across or what will eventually appeal to them - that's why we all have more than one rifle and many have gun safes stuffed full of rifles they need shoot! LOL I am sure that the Ruger rifle with 223 will do everything I want it to - probably a lot more but will be limited by my abilities. Like I said . . . I'm "older" and I was brought up where we had a gun cabinet with Winchesters, Remingtons, Ithacas, etc. that were good solid firearms with beautiful walnut stocks - so buying a rifle such as I did with a tupperware stock on it took some thought - but I also realize that "form follows function". When I picked up my rifle at the LGS, the owner was telling me about a good customer of theirs that has the same rifle - he hunts coyote on a regular basis and he was telling me that he often takes them at 300 to 400 yards with his hand loaded 223s - not being used to shooting at those distances, I find that and what some of you do to be pretty amazing with either the 222 or 223. My shooting friend also has a couple of suppressors - I have never had the opportunity to use one until I met him and while they never interested me, I have to admit I found them interesting and can see how a person would put them to good use for not only general range shooting, but hunting such things as coyotes, prairie dogs, etc. so in the end, an "old dog" can learn "new tricks".

I appreciate the kind responses and the good information provided as it cleared up a lot of questions I had -it's like anything in life - if you don't ask you won't learn. -) Many thanks to all

1

[tazman]

There was a time, not so long ago, that the 222 was considered one of the most inherently accurate cartridges ever made.
Lots of new stuff out there now making the same claim. I suspect the new barrels and better bullets have something to do with that.

[atr]

I shoot the .222 Rem. The .223 was developed from the .222 case. The .222 shoulder was moved up which shortened the neck.
This gave more space for powder which is why the .223 has more velocity. For my needs the extra velocity wasn't a requirement. The .222 fits my needs and is a very accurate round. My rifle is a Remington with a 26" barrel and it is very accurate.
Just my thoughts and opinion, but I would take a good bolt action .222 anytime.
atr

[james23]

Within the last couple of years I bought a nice older BSA .222 rifle with a good Leopold scope. The bonus was after the rifle sold at auction , the next lots was the handloads with the load data. This saved me a lot of time and money. The rifle shoots wonderfully. I am seeing a lot more .222's at auction more recently, I figure the old shooters are moving on and these rifles are coming on the market.

[Three44s]

The 222 vs the 223?

It all comes down to what you want to accomplish with the cartridge.

Plinking?

General varmint hunting?

Then the 223

Bench rest?

The 222, however the PPC would be an even better choice.

Pay attention to the twist with your Ruger Ranch as that will tend to flavor what bullets and boolits you should be loading for best performance.

Three44s

[Gewehr-Guy]

Somewhere I read a comment that the good old 30-06 was a perfectly proportioned and balanced cartridge, and that Browning scaled the dimensions up to make the .50 BMG cartridge, and if you study the .222 Rem it appears to be just a small 30-06 case!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The longer neck of the 222 is more cast boolit friendly.
If you do your job of reloading with a cast boolit correctly, the 222 will be more accurate than the 223.
CZ makes some awesome bolt guns in 222.

[country gent]

In off the shelf factory rifles I dont think you will see much difference accuracy wise. In a accuracy built custom rifle I think the 222 will win by a little bit. I have had 222s in bolt actions that were real tack drivers. First rifle was a savage 110 in 222 I used full power jacketed for varmints and a lead 55 grn loaded down for squirrels. It was a moa rifle. I have shot 223 in HP matches ARs built for accuracy with fast twist barrels to use 75 and 80 grn bullets again very accurate barrels and the slightly larger volume helps with the heavier bullets. Both can and are very accurate. As has been said for many years the 222 held a lot of records. Its a nice mild mannered round with easy recoil and muzzle blast. They normally shoot very well.

[uscra112]

In off the shelf factory rifles I dont think you will see much difference accuracy wise. In a accuracy built custom rifle I think the 222 will win by a little bit. I have had 222s in bolt actions that were real tack drivers. First rifle was a savage 110 in 222 I used full power jacketed for varmints and a lead 55 grn loaded down for squirrels. It was a moa rifle. I have shot 223 in HP matches ARs built for accuracy with fast twist barrels to use 75 and 80 grn bullets again very accurate barrels and the slightly larger volume helps with the heavier bullets. Both can and are very accurate. As has been said for many years the 222 held a lot of records. Its a nice mild mannered round with easy recoil and muzzle blast. They normally shoot very well.

You said it. For a while in the 1950s the .222 was a primo benchrest cartridge. The .223 never has been.

I've always liked that long neck, which is more friendly to cast bullets.

[Harter66]

I had boring 198? vintage Savage 340 . I shot Rem , FC , Win , and Hornady 50 gr SP , nickle groups at 100 . 4/5 touching the 5th went a little wild but was well within the 1" grid with a 62gr NOE 225-55 at 2640 fps over 19 gr of H322 . 1-12" twist .

223 same everything cast in a Savage Axis and Stevens 200 both with 1-8" shot about 2" on 20 gr and only 2130 fps before groups completely fell apart . Same results in 3 ARs with both A2 and M4 profiles in 1-8" twists .

Final impressions the 222 delivered better results with cast , going faster on less powder but I expect results would be a dead heat with equal twists and the only advantage being burning less powder .

[rking22]

Harter66, what was the alloy used? I have a nice Sako L46 in 222, with a 1 in16, bet it will shoot that load as well. Shoots the old 19.5 4198 and a 50 like it thinks it's a bench gun, but I want a cast load. Just gotta get rountuit, kinda back burner for now.

[Prcshooter]

Im a fan of the triple duece. The advantage of the 223 would be off the shelf availability

[GOPHER SLAYER]

One of my regrets over the one that got away was a beautiful Sako L46 Vixen in 222. Great rifle, great cartridge. In the caliber .22 they should have quit right there. I have owned several hot 22s like 219 Zipper improved, .219 Donaldson and a .225 Winchester which I still have. All too loud and and in my opinion not needed. That's my opinion and I am sticking to it.

[MT Gianni]

Somewhere I read a comment that the good old 30-06 was a perfectly proportioned and balanced cartridge, and that Browning scaled the dimensions up to make the .50 BMG cartridge, and if you study the .222 Rem it appears to be just a small 30-06 case!

Mike Walker of Remington scaled down the 30-06 to create the 222. It has been the basis of the 223, 222 mag, 17 Rem, 221, 17 Fireball, 300 BO and a whole bunch of other wildcats, esp the TCU contender cartridges.

[Drm50]

There would be no 223/ 5.56 if the long neck on 222 lent itself to full auto weapons. The 222 is one of those classics that would still be popular except the 223 and ARs have taken over. I don’t think there is enough difference in the two to make much difference. I do think 222 is more accurate on average because of the long neck.

[Rapidrob]

I had the honor of knowing the first man in NRA history who fired five shots into the same hole at 200 yards in the 50's using the .222 Remington cartridge.
My wife's go-to rifle for varmint hunting is a .222 Remington Riihimaki Sako. It is one fine shooting rifle at long range.
When the U.S Army was looking for a new cartridge they knew the accuracy of the .222 Remington but it lacked the ability to penetrate a helmet at long distance ( 500 yards ) so working with Stoner/Remington the cartridge developed was the .222 Special *which could do he job. It was later ( in 1959 ) renamed to the .223 Remington. The rest is history.
*The other cartridges tested were:
.224 Winchester
.224 Springfield
The .222 special was designed in part by Remington working with Stoner.
With that being said, the .222 Remington with its longer neck is more accurate but for a military cartridge the .223 has the longer range wanted by the U.S Army and is almost as accurate.
While the .222 Remington can be loaded to a much higher pressure to achieve the penetration needed by the Army, pressures were deemed to be too high to be safe in combat conditions.

[OldBearHair]

Did anyone mention what the limits are for feet per second with cast boolits without gas checks and boolits with gas checks for the 222 Remington?

[beltfed]

Now you got me going to get my L46 action Marlin 322 Heavy Barrel rifle out
of the back of the safe and "exercise it" again. The Marlin microgroove crapped out at under 1K rounds
on PDs in South Dakota, rebarrelled with Douglas Premium 12 twist barrel. Great gun. Shot very well with Hornady 55SX.
Looking at lead bullets for it.
Now, OTOH, I since had built up a rifle with Savage 110LH single shot action with a Douglas Premium 12 twist,
Herters TargVar stock. Caliber 223. This rifle, with same 55SX bullets would do 0.4" groups at 100yds
Of course higher velocity than the ol L46 222. Did PDs with the 223 way out there.
Again, I am looking now at the L46 Marlin322 and do some lead bullet work with it.
beltfed/arnie

[beltfed]

Oh, interestingly, my Marlin 322 was purchased from Klein's Sporting Goods back in 1958 by
a good friend $88 as I recall. He mostly shot 22 cal pellets /primed only cases in his basement with it. We were in high school at the time.
I shot as said, I shot out the microgroove barrel on PDs in S.D. they were known to have short life in 222R. and had to rebarrel it.
beltfed/arnie

[elmacgyver0]

I don't think you can go wrong with either one.
I like the .223 simply because it is a military cartridge.

[elmacgyver0]

Correction, .556 minor different but it is there.

[dh2]

I have nothing against the 222 but being around Army bases for the last 30 years made the choice for me 223 brass is in good availability I have had a bolt action 223 that has done most of my varmint hunting , and now AR-15 , so to me that takes away the appeal of the 222 for me, I have in resent years got a 220 Swift and built a 22-250 Rem. AI but still feel 90% of varmint hunting shoots can be done with the 223 and I have not found a place in the world that ammo was not available

[Norske]

At the range where I volunteer, the 223 is favored by those who want brass that's easy to find and once fired brass is cheap. But even they describe the 222 as inherently more accurate. "You have to work at it to make a 222 inaccurate." is commonly heard when the two cartridges are compared.
I'm a varmint shooter, so I have a pair of 22-250's.

[Mk42gunner]

With bullets from 50-55 grains from twenty years ago the .223 had the slight edge in range and power, the .222 had the edge in accuracy. With modern bullets of 55+ grains, the .223 with its quicker available twist is the way to go.

I have had a few rifles in both calibers, honestly for field use I could never see any difference in performance. As for coyotes at 400+ yards, that is .22-250 (or bigger) territory not .223 to me.

With all that said, I had a Remington Model 788 in .222 Remington that would put five shots under a nickel at 150 yards prone with sling, on demand (I could see pretty good in my younger years). I wish I still had that rifle, everything I shot at that had fur just died. I replaced it with a 788 in .223, it never shot as well as the deuce. Not that it was a poor shooter, it just didn't measure up to the .222.

Robert

[quilbilly]

I shoot both in either bolt or single shots (semi-autos are a separate subject) and my experience has been that the 222 has been much easier to cast for than the 223 which I can only attribute to the 222's longer neck. In my case my 222's (all three) have preferred a round nose boolit at any velocity up to 2200 fps. On the other hand, my 223 bolt gun. a T/C Venture only wants a semi-point boolit with a small meplat at a velocity of about 2100 fps (but not slower) and is so accurate at 100 yards that it outshoots jacketed bullets at velocities several hundred feet per second faster. Unlike the 222's that took to CB's like a duck to water, it took well over a year and several molds to find that sweet spot for CB's with the 223 bolt gun. It was a very frustrating but very satisfying adventure with the 223 bolt gun. Both my 222's and 223's are all sub MOA at 100 yards when my eyes are having a good day. FYI - I have a 223 single shot that won't shoot any CB's over 1400 fps accurately proving that every rifle barrel seems to have a unique personality.

[444ttd]

in the early '90s, i used to have a savage m340 in 222 rem with a 6x scope(i think it was bushnell?). i loaded up some 6000-7000 rounds in 50gr hornady sp and 4198(have to check my book). i bought the 340 used, so i cannot tell you how many cartridges or reloads were used. in the three or four years i had her, i did some fantastic shots. (hey i was young once) the furthest shot that i used was 475+/-ish yards on a groundhog. the electric fence was 450 yards from my spot, the woods line was 500 yards. there was no laser range finder thingys back in the day[smilie=l:. the wind was nil and it was HOT!!! the first shot(dirt plume) was way under the groundhog. i adjusted my aim and then i shot the second time. the dirt plume was over the groundhog. the groundhog kept eating, so i adjusted a little bit and shot. the groundhog spirit ascended into sky while the rest of her went "wha..............". i shot her in the shoulder so she didn't go anywhere, bang...flop.

the 340 was a dream to shot. 1/4 - 3/8" at 100 yards(5 shots) was normal for it. but in the end, 1 - 2" groups then it had to go. the throat was burned out and the last 5 or 6" of barrel looked smooth. the gunsmith(who was a friend) said just get another barrel, but being young and dumb, i sold her. i've had 223 and 22-250 and ai version(which was accurate as !@#$) but it wasn't no 222. i've gotten rid of .22 calibers(just have the 22 lr's) and i've have a 20 vartarg with 34gr (midway or midsouth) hp and some rel7 and i'm golden. i have to take my chrony out, but its going 3500-3600fps. careful handloading(neck trimming, weigh the case, weigh the bullet nosler or hornady 32gr, trim exactly....) and it go 1/8" at 100 yards(5 shots). i don't do that anymore, so i'll trim them if i have too, gave up on bench rest primers(i use whatever small rifle primers i have on hand)......and the reloads go 1/4 - 3/8" with an occasional 1/2" at 100 yards. the furthest shot that the 20vt makes is 320ish yards, but mostly its 200-250 yard shot. i've laid out groundhogs, foxes, a 'yote or two (or three or four), feral cats and dogs, cans, rocks.........whatever.

for people who ask what is a 20 vartarg?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.20_VarTarg

[Harter66]

R King sorry I'm not getting reply notices .
I'm using a 75/25 of WW and tamper seals that are believed to be 1-20 w/about 4.5% copper in solution . It is odd but I can get an alloy that does the same with range cores over 40% plated bullets . I water drop and get a bullet of about 18bhn that acts like a 22 in the barrel and 14 on target . Copper induction by solution is the only rational explanation . These are commonly antipilferage seals on GI ammo cans , NPG gas regulators where a lead seal is used and on gasoline pump counters .

Old Bear Hair
I am getting 2640 fps in a 24" 1-14" with an NOE 225-55@62 gr, I believe now marked 225-62 FP . Just a plain Hornady check , the alloy above and Darrs lube with extra paraffin and STP .

[PNW_Steve]

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the .225 Winchester. It has notably more case capacity than the .223 which has more case capacity than the .222

I had a Model 70 in .225 that was 1/2 moa capable. My best was five shots at 200 yards that measured 9/16" c-c.

[GSP7]

220 swift

259809
223....22-250....220swift

[PNW_Steve]

220 swift

259809

I came close to buying a .220 Swift several years ago and got talked out of it by a gent that convinced me that it was a "barrel burner". I know better now and wish that I could get my hands on that rifle today.....

[GSP7]

I came close to buying a .220 Swift several years ago and got talked out of it by a gent that convinced me that it was a "barrel burner". I know better now and wish that I could get my hands on that rifle today.....

There were and are a fair amount of nice pre-64 Win model 70 220 swift rifles . Ive passed up several will searching 30 cal m70s

.

.

[PNW_Steve]

There were and are a fair amount of nice pre-64 Win model 70 220 swift rifles . Ive passed up several will searching 30 cal m70s

.

.

The 70 that I had was a pre-64 with the barrel free floated and action glass bedded. Along with a trigger. I can't remember which one.. Timmeny?

I miss that rifle.
Unfortunately my brother got hold of it and pawned it. It was gone before I was aware of what happened.

[Chris S]

My experience, though meager, two guns in 223, several in 222 and several in 22-250 has lead me to believe the 222 is just plain magic. Loaded with a 50-52 grain slug and 4198/4895 powder, you are really hard pressed to print bad groups. I hunted prairie dogs (ok, shot prairie dogs) for a lot of years in Colorado, nothing could compare to the deuce for hit ratio. For gore factor or range, of course, the 22-250 reigned supreme.

17 Rem was a lot of fun too, as well as 6 PPC. But those cartridges have their own "issues" that the loader has to deal with. The Deuce "just works". Shelf gun, custom gun, pistol, rifle, it works.

My $.02
Chris