Colt 1849 Pocket? Trigger Spring

[Kyle M.]

Hello all I haven't been around here in awhile but I've still been casting, loading, and shooting. I inherited what I believe to be a reproduction Colt 1849 pocket. Can't seem to find anything but the 1849 pocket that it matches. The only markings on it ar "Made in Italy" .31 caliber, some Italian proof marks, and a 1969 date code. I don't know if it's a Uberti, a Pietta, or some other maker considering it's not marked. No import markings either. I have clue where my grandfather got it or what the story is on it. I have several other BP revolvers, and rifles and I'd like to shoot this thing. I already slugged the barrel and got a mold. But it has a broken trigger spring. The arm of the spring that works the trigger is fine but the leg that works the cylinder bolt is snapped off. I ordered a spring for an 1849 pocket from VTI gun parts but it's too small. The leg for the trigger is betweent 1/8"-3/16" too short. So I'm wondering if it's possible they just used a full size spring such as that from a 1851 Navy? Or is it more likely that it's some oddball size I won't be able to find? I have a Pietta 1851 Navy but haven't worked up the motivation to pull it apart and see if the spring is the same. If anyone knows anything about these and possibly has an answer it would be greatly appreciated.

Here is the revolver in question.

https://i.ibb.co/fM1GrPq/IMG-1816.jpg (https://ibb.co/fM1GrPq)

https://i.ibb.co/0V0GWH5/IMG-1817.jpg (https://ibb.co/0V0GWH5)

[725]

Sorry, but I can't help you out. You might just have to make it yourself. It's amazing what you can make with a file and a Dremel. good luck.

[Good Cheer]

6" barrel?
That looks like a nice shooter.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Check with Dixie Gun Works. They very likely have a replacement spring.

[bigted]

At the price ... try both Uberti and Pietta springs for the 49 pocket.

Which spring did you buy that is too short? I bet it was a Uberti spring if it is too short.

[indian joe]

I have a pocket navy in 36Cal (the stepped cylinder one) made a trigger / bolt spring for it from a piece of alarm clock spring - didnt think I had the skill required to temper a spring so I drilled the screw hole with a diamond burr and shaped the spring with a cutoff wheel in the dremel - still working fine!

[Kyle M.]

I have a pocket navy in 36Cal (the stepped cylinder one) made a trigger / bolt spring for it from a piece of alarm clock spring - didnt think I had the skill required to temper a spring so I drilled the screw hole with a diamond burr and shaped the spring with a cutoff wheel in the dremel - still working fine!

That's my thing I'm sure I could cut one out of something but correctly tempering it would be the issue.

[Kyle M.]

At the price ... try both Uberti and Pietta springs for the 49 pocket.

Which spring did you buy that is too short? I bet it was a Uberti spring if it is too short.

I'll have to go back and check but I'm pretty sure it was a reproduction for the original. On second thought I should have known that probably wouldn't work but I figured it was worth a try. I tried to order one for a Uberti awhile back but it was out of stock everywhere. Taylor's said 6 weeks and it's been on backorder through them for over 4 months now.

[Kyle M.]

6" barrel?
That looks like a nice shooter.

I'd have to measure it but it's definately in the 5"-6" range.

[pietro]

I inherited what I believe to be a reproduction Colt 1849 pocket.

The only markings on it ar "Made in Italy" .31 caliber, some Italian proof marks, and a 1969 date code.

I don't know if it's a Uberti, a Pietta, or some other maker considering it's not marked.

No import markings either.



I'm mis-remembring the year, but before the requirement for a gun to be marked with it's country of origin and/or import marks, there was no requirement for any such.

There should be, however, a "maker's marking" somewhere on your repro.

Here's the lowdown on Italian maker's markings: http://www.powderhombre.com/mbpproofmarks.pdf

.

[Drm50]

There is nothing in picture for scale. What makes it a 49' 31cal?

[mazo kid]

For a quick "fix" you can use an ordinary safety pin. They come in enough sizes that you should be able to find one that will work.

[elk hunter]

When I don't have the correct size of spring stock on hand I've made those springs out of the end of a hacksaw blade. Cut off a piece longer than the longest leg of the old spring and grind to width keeping the hole in the end in the center. Slot with a dremel cut off wheel. Heat until red then let cool slowly. Shape the legs and cut to length. Suspend the new spring on a piece of wire and heat until red then dunk to cool in ATF. Pound a dent on the bottom of an empty can deep enough to hold the spring and cover with ATF. Take the can OUTSIDE and heat the can until the ATF starts to smoke vigorously and then ignite the ATF and let it burn off and let the spring cool. When cool clean your new spring and install. I've done a number of them this way and they all work well enough. New annealed spring stock of different sizes can be purchased from Brownells.

[Drm50]

I would check out spring for small frame Colt SA 22 clones.

[pietro]

There is nothing in picture for scale. What makes it a 49' 31cal?

The smaller size of the cylinder frame, compared to the almost normal size of the gripframe makes it either a .31cal 1849 or a .36cal 1862 Pocket.

The .36 Pockets have a rebated cylinder for the larger caliber, the 1849 has a non-rebated cylinder like the OP's gun.


.

[Kyle M.]

I'm mis-remembring the year, but before the requirement for a gun to be marked with it's country of origin and/or import marks, there was no requirement for any such.

There should be, however, a "maker's marking" somewhere on your repro.

Here's the lowdown on Italian maker's markings: http://www.powderhombre.com/mbpproofmarks.pdf

.

Thanks I'll definately check that out. I think the GCA of 1968 required import marks and serial numbers. Which is strange as this has a 1969 date code, though that may not have applied to blackpowder guns right away or their may have been a grace period.

[Kyle M.]

There is nothing in picture for scale. What makes it a 49' 31cal?

Well the fact that it's .31 caliber makes it .31 caliber. Also while looking up .31 caliber cap and ball revolvers the 1849 pocked was the only thing I could find that looked similar and was similar size.

[Kyle M.]

For a quick "fix" you can use an ordinary safety pin. They come in enough sizes that you should be able to find one that will work.

Interesting. I never would have thought of that.

[indian joe]

There is nothing in picture for scale. What makes it a 49' 31cal?

Its got a round barrel - so its a baby dragoon
The later pocket navy - had an octagonal barrel

31 cal is 31 cal .................straight cylinder
36 cal (pocket models) had stepped cylinder

[Gtek]

Maybe look under loading lever on bottom of barrel, DGG?

[desi23]

Thanks I'll definately check that out. I think the GCA of 1968 required import marks and serial numbers. Which is strange as this has a 1969 date code, though that may not have applied to blackpowder guns right away or their may have been a grace period.

IIRC the serial requirements of the 1968 Act were primarily for cartridge weapons, black powder guns whether original or reproduction were not even classed as firearms at that time (still aren't under Federal law, some states treat them as such though). Country of Origin was required on many imported products (not just guns) for many years though. Many older black powder imports have only the mandatory proof marks and some don't even have that as they were sold as kits (I.E. sold as parts, not a completed gun) though that changed over time (and probably liability concerns). ASM made a lot of the less common reproduction models at that time including the Colt Pockets and Dragoons. I would suspect that they are the most likely maker of a 1969 dated Pocket. I don't believe Uberti offered one until later in the 1970's and don't recall Pietta offering one at all (though they did offer the Remington pocket starting in the 70's). Some ASM parts are still available from various online sellers.

[Kyle M.]

Maybe look under loading lever on bottom of barrel, DGG?

Thanks never thought to look there. But no luck. I'll probably just have to get ambitious and make my own spring or talk to my gunsmith buddy when he opens back up.

[Oldgold]

I'm mis-remembring the year, but before the requirement for a gun to be marked with it's country of origin and/or import marks, there was no requirement for any such.

There should be, however, a "maker's marking" somewhere on your repro.

Here's the lowdown on Italian maker's markings: http://www.powderhombre.com/mbpproofmarks.pdf

.

Interesting. How do you date after 2003?

[Gtek]

Type in Italian gun date codes, quick run found up to 2010.

[KCSO]

Track may have the spring you need.

[sourdough]

New member here. Sorry to be late responding to your thread.

Your revolver is an Armi San Marco 1849 Pocket .31 with a fairly scarce part round/part octagonal barrel 6" (nearly all were produced with a full octagon barrel). To anyone even a bit familiar with ASM Pocket .31 revolvers, the obvious clues are the sloped screw shoulders at the rear of the trigger guard and the shape of the load lever at the rammer pivot.

I bought this one several years ago at auction (GB). It is an 1848 Pocket .31 marked Replica Arms El Paso Texas, date code XIX/1963, with no ASM markings. Dr. Jim L. Davis (RPRCA: Replica Percussion Revolver Collector Association, now defunct with Davis' passing last September) authenticated it as a first-year-of-production for ASM.

The first photo is that revolver.

https://i.ibb.co/SvsZ1Wb/1848-Pocket-31-Replica-Arms-ASM-001.jpg (https://ibb.co/7yY0T8P)

The second photo is an ASM 1848 Pocket .31 that belongs to a friend on another forum.

https://i.ibb.co/8mxScFF/1848-Pocket-31-Replica-Arms-ASM-002.jpg (https://ibb.co/2FMfNXX)

Here is a current list of Italian date codes through 2030:

https://i.ibb.co/2Kt1P1Q/Italian-Date-Codes.png (https://ibb.co/nkcNfNv)

ASM went out of business in 2002. Most of their spare parts stock were purchased by VTI and Deer Creek. The parts available are about as scarce as hens' teeth. I would try an Uberti trigger/bolt spring (VTI or Taylor's) but it would most likely have to be fitted to your revolver.

Good luck with your endeavor!

Regards,

Jim

[edp2k]

Use a black metal binder clip and a file and/or dremel.

[sharps4590]

Amazing ingenuity in this thread. I'll be fortunate to remember some of the ideas if I need them in the future. It isn't my revolver but thanks to all of you!!

[sourdough]

Amazing ingenuity in this thread. I'll be fortunate to remember some of the ideas if I need them in the future. It isn't my revolver but thanks to all of you!!

I like your sig.

[sharps4590]

Well thanks sourdough! The first is obviously Voltaire'. He was kind of a scum bag actually. The second has been credited to Churchill. I have a large book of his quotes but can't remember if he actually said it or if it has been erroneously credited to him. Doesn't much matter, it gospel true.

[Mike 56]

Here is a link on makeing a bolt spring from a safety pin. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/cylinder-bolt-spring.623759/ there are guys that make trigger/bolt springs from music wire like Colt SA. It is considered a colt upgrade.