gander mountian beware

[bobthenailer]

about a 60 day ago i bought a pistol from a friend , we went to gander mountian to transfer ownership on a sunday, thats when i meet him at the range to shoot we live about 25 miles apart . they wanted $ 40.00 for the transfer which i thought was high. last sunday i bought another pistol from the same friend on sunday and we went to gander mountian again they rased ther transfer fee to $ 75.00 , gander mountian has lost my business forever , on monday he came to where i live and a local gun shop did the transfer for $15.00 , i gave him a $20.00 and said keep it

[waksupi]

You transfer through a dealer on a private sale? Not in my life!

[Scrounger]

That's the law in California, and probably some other states too, Ric.
Bobthenailer, You know how inflation gets started? Someone tells a merchant his price is too low or leaves a big tip. Next guy that goes in there to do a transfer gets "nailed" for $20 or $25 because you let him know his price was too low. That can really hurt the financially challenged people who can't afford the upscale prices. Keep the faith.

[richbug]

You transfer through a dealer on a private sale? Not in my life!

It is state law in PA for handguns.

Bob, what county are you in? Mercer here...

[bobthenailer]

i usually only get some gunsmithing done that i cant do myself but i have never bought a gun there and only a few ods & ends . he has excellent prices on used reloading equipment, and the gunsmithing is done fast and at reasonable cost , and for gunsmithing i allways tip him
it is the law in pa to transfer handgun ownership
i live in washington county

[bobthenailer]

as for infaltion ive gotten more tips at work when the labor rate was $50 vers $80 dollars per hour labor rate . and no ! i dont make $ 80 an hour on my end

[Scrounger]

I've never tipped a gunsmith. I figured he'd bill me for what his effort was worth, he's not a cocktail waitress working for tips....

[waksupi]

We did recieve tips occassionaly in the gun shop. I did notice,the tipper generally got faster service in the future!

[unclebill]

I've never tipped a gunsmith. I figured he'd bill me for what his effort was worth, he's not a cocktail waitress working for tips....

me either.
he is already billing me for what he considers the market will bear.

[bobthenailer]

well i guess you work in a profession where you dont get tips . well i do ! and if someone gives me good to excellent service i tip them , and yes it does come back to you the next time !
but then some people expect it no matter what kind of service you get from them!

[waksupi]

Let's see, some guy comes in who has done something stupid, he needs repaired. Ok, did that, here's your fixed mess, where's my money?
Next guy comes in, who has done something stupid, he needs repaired . Ok, fixed that, here's the fixed mess, where's my money? Oh! So, you give a bottle of 12 year old scotch in appreciation of having it done right? Please, break something else, and come back soon!

[44man]

Let's see, some guy comes in who has done something stupid, he needs repaired. Ok, did that, here's your fixed mess, where's my money?
Next guy comes in, who has done something stupid, he needs repaired . Ok, fixed that, here's the fixed mess, where's my money? Oh! So, you give a bottle of 12 year old scotch in appreciation of having it done right? Please, break something else, and come back soon!
My thoughts exactly! :mrgreen: I do a lot of work for friends and for their friends. I get paid from those I don't know but not from my close friends because I am retired and do it for fun now. But a bottle is icing on the cake.
As far as Gander Mountain, I stay away from there. We bought some shot and powder from them once, that was enough. I was looking at CCI .22 shells, blew my mind, thought they were selling .300 Weatherby rounds! I have never seen prices so inflated in my life.
They used to be a good outfit long ago when they just sold by catalog, but they are out to get rich fast now.

[Scrounger]

Call it whatever you like but it is inflationary, it raises the bar for the next customer and raises the morality question of "Do I do as good (or as quick) a job for a poor man as for a rich one?" I was taught that you do your best whether the pay was $2 an hour or $10. And back to my original premise, paying more than the seller asks is inflationary and causes prices to be raised and pushes the poor man out of the market. Now your gunsmith or merchant has raised his prices to the point that he loses, say the lower 50% of his business which was profitable also, and the remaining upper 50% cannot sustain his business, so he has to raise prices again.. Maybe he grosses the same amount of money on half as many jobs and has more time off. I'm sure he thinks that's great but a lot of shooters cannot afford to hire a gunsmith at that level. You have noticed that we have less shooters and less gunsmiths than we had 30 years ago? Not pounding on you, Bob, this sort of thing has been going on in our whole economy and the results are becoming fairly obvious.

[Heavy lead]

Gander Mountain, Sportsmans Warehouse and Cabela's have lost it. I could care less if the store has a freakin' museum in in. I mail order everything I need, or go to a local place. I'm lucky there is a couple local guys here that have good prices on powder and/or primers. They don't have African Safari scenes or trophy fish on the wall, but they do have good prices and less overhead.

[Powderpacker]

I'm lucky there is a couple local guys here that have good prices on powder and/or primers.
Individuals or shops? In or near Paw Paw? I usually stop at On Target when I'm in K'zoo for the gun shows at the fairgrounds and I'm always looking for new places to check out . Wouldn't be much of a detour to go through Paw Paw on the way back to South Bend .

[Heavy lead]

Individuals or shops? In or near Paw Paw? I usually stop at On Target when I'm in K'zoo for the gun shows at the fairgrounds and I'm always looking for new places to check out . Wouldn't be much of a detour to go through Paw Paw on the way back to South Bend .

Schanz Suppy in Otsego, exit 49 off 131. Good to great supply of powder, primers, shot and guns, much better prices than on target and better selection as far as powder and primers are concerned. It is west of 131 maybe 5 miles at most on M-89.

[bobthenailer]

i started this post to point out gander mountians over gouging for a transfer and its turned into a tipping fest !

[Powderpacker]

Schanz Suppy in Otsego, exit 49 off 131. Good to great supply of powder, primers, shot and guns, much better prices than on target and better selection as far as powder and primers are concerned. It is west of 131 maybe 5 miles at most on M-89.

Thank you much !
Appoligies to bobthenailer for the mini hijack.

[unclebill]

bill for drilling and tapping 1 hole.

$35.00

am i going to tip?
you be the judge...

[44man]

I would tip! Tip them on their heads! :mrgreen:

[Scrounger]

bill for drilling and tapping 1 hole.

$35.00

am i going to tip?
you be the judge...

What are you complaining about? That's only $25 over a fair price...
I never met a gunsmith that didn't charge at least twice as much as I thought the job was worth. Maybe I was just unlucky in the ones I ran into. Most of them wanted to make $1000 a week to finance their hunting trips; Fair enough if you put in 40 or 50 hours at it, but most of them only worked 2 or 3 days a week. Put a gun in there for even a minor job and wait 3 months to get it back. That's why I learned to do things like trigger jobs and glass bedding, saved lots of money and time.

[Heavy lead]

What are you complaining about? That's only $25 over a fair price...
I never met a gunsmith that didn't charge at least twice as much as I thought the job was worth. Maybe I was just unlucky in the ones I ran into. Most of them wanted to make $1000 a week to finance their hunting trips; Fair enough if you put in 40 or 50 hours at it, but most of them only worked 2 or 3 days a week. Put a gun in there for even a minor job and wait 3 months to get it back. That's why I learned to do things like trigger jobs and glass bedding, saved lots of money and time.

+1 and quite frankley most of the local guys around here are hacks, I've messed stuff up, but usually I can do a better job.

[unclebill]

I met a (yet another) cool old fart at the range that does it for $5.
he is a retired machinist.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I sold my neighbor 2 pistols recently. The next Mon. we went to the sheriffs dept and he was issued new owner permits - no charge. Oh by the way he bought me breakfast. [smilie=1: :Fire: Robert

[PatMarlin]

Our small town guy raised his fee from $25 to $30, and I'm glad to pay it and support him.

Gander= gouge.. :rolleyes:

One shop that I have bought a few rifles and pistols from surprised me when I asked their smith to check the headspace on an old M17 for me. He handed back my rifle while I waited and a $35 bill.

That was the last dollar they ever got from me.

I sent down my newly aquired Savage that needed scope mounts changed (1 for sure), and I had them mount my scope since they were doing the mounts.

They had a bit of work with the exisiting steel mounts loctited in hard I guess. Got my rifle back boresighted, one new mount and done to perfection with a $35 dollar bill. Now they get my business.

Or maybe it was the wife. I guess I should send her from now on.. :mrgreen:

[waksupi]

You may want to look in your Brownell's catalog. There is a list of common gunsmith charges. And most will charge for a full hour regardless of what you want done. Same as an auto mechanic, using thier "job" book. There is a set fee there, also. If you can find a good gunsmith to do what you need done, and do it correctly the first time, hang on to him. And beware any who claim they are an expert on every type of firearm.

[Scrounger]

I might point out that a huge amount of Brownell's sales go to gunsmiths. One would hardly expect them to advocate lower service charges for their best customers. Or as the kids say today, they sucked up to them Brownell's position is hardly that of an impartial judge. And I think you yourself do a little gunsmithing, don't you? A ten minute job should earn ten minute's pay.

[Halfbreed]

Scrounger, sometimes I disagree with the way you think, BUT, I think you are exactly right on here.

quote ( A ten minute job should earn ten minute's pay. )

I grew up in my parents upholstery business, after 30 years, they retired. I too beleive in you pay for what is done and how long it takes, not how much a business can gouge for.

I beleive in making a living. not a killing off the customer.
John

[JesterGrin_1]

I will say here in San Antonio the prices at Sportsmans Warehouse are not that bad. Not cheap but not ripping peoples heads off. But the problem is there reloading shelves are about empty lol. I waited on some powder for 6 Weeks and nothing. I did call this last tuesday as that is when they say to call to check on shipments and the nice person said yes we got some powder in and 30,OOO primers in Large Rifle and Large Pistol. I said great save me one box of each. And the sales person said I would like to but two people purchased all of the primers and the 60 pounds of powder they got lol.

So I gave up and put in an order with Powder Valley and saved some coin. :)

[Scrounger]

I think being fair and reasonable generates return business; gouging makes one trip customers.
I get it that he has rent to pay, taxes, equipment, and wants to eat, but I'm not responsible for helping him meet all those obligations, only to the extent I use his time. If he doesn't have enough customers to pay the bills, maybe he should close the shop and get a job. We have no obligation to help him fulfill his dream. we all have our own and not enough money to do them.

[waksupi]

Have you ever looked at an itemized billing from a lawyer?

[PatMarlin]

I think if it's a high end shop- where if you have to ask how much it is, you shouldn't be in there- is one thing, but a working man's shop needs to be reasonable.

I've bought a good number of firearms in there, and pretty much that was the first time I was ever charged for a headspace check at a shop. Most do it as a courtesy in my experience, but I think $35 was over the top.

[unclebill]

I think being fair and reasonable generates return business; gouging makes one trip customers.
I get it that he has rent to pay, taxes, equipment, and wants to eat, but I'm not responsible for helping him meet all those obligations, only to the extent I use his time. If he doesn't have enough customers to pay the bills, maybe he should close the shop and get a job. We have no obligation to help him fulfill his dream. we all have our own and not enough money to do them.

yessir


after my $35 hole.
i will NEVER walk in that shop again.
i dont spend a lot of money
but i do spend about $ 3-4000 a year on guns and related purchases.
that guy will never see another dime out of me as long as i live.


i live in a small town and i tell everybody about this guy.....

[451whitworth]

back before i had my own lathe and mill and did my own work i used gunsmiths. i would have gladly paid $35 for a drilled and tapped hole that was in the proper place, straight, and square and the metal wasn't scratched or the wood dented when the firearm was returned.

[targetshootr]

$35 for a tapped hole is a bargain. Heck, I doubt anyone around here would do it for that and even if they did, you wouldn't see your gun for several months. Gunsmiths would never make it in a trade where there are dozens of others in the same area competing for work so they have us over the barrel in that respect.

Gander Mtn is only for sightseeing over 'cheer.

[Meatco1]

Personally, I wouldn't tip for billed work, ever!!!

Richard

[LAcaster]

A tip is given anytime a person has gone out of there way to provide you with service that has gone over and beyond what you expected. That is not infationary that is curtousy to people who give exemplary service. Just as I will not tip a waitress that acts as if she has better things to do than cater to me, I will make sure people that go out of there way to serve me are provided with something extra. Only because they gave me something extra without expecting something in return. I get tipped regulary in my bussiness and it is always treated as a complement not as a reason to raise my prices.

[Buckshot]

..............Poor ol Bobthenailer's got one of the most "Hijackable" threads going, doncha:-) Re: Gunsmith charges. I don't think a $35 D&T job is bad. Someone without a clue as to the consequences may look at the bitty hole and won't even consider the nice clean crisp weensy threads done in some damn tough steel inside that bitty hole. They'll just see the smallness, and in their mind that just COULDN'T be worth $35!

Pep boys has a sign over their service counter that says $85/hr labor. Consider that that $35 D&T isn't all just profit. Owning your own business requires you to pay your own matching Social Security, disability insurance, liability insurance, unemployment taxes, state and federal income taxes, fire insurance, maybe an alarm bill, electric bill gas bill, paper clips, pens, forms, his FFL license fees and forms, building rent, and if he doesn't do it himself book keeper fees. After that he probably has bills at home.

Consequenses in D&Ting that little hole are at the least a broken tap. He did it, it's HIS fault and he knows he's responsible. At the worst it might be a new barrel, plus chambering threading, bluing and installing. How many $35 holes will he have to do to pay for that?

Heck, what person would pay $35 for that hole? You need a hole for an 8-40 screw so you go pay $1.29 for a #29 drill bit (NOT at Lowes or Home Depot, but you find one somewhere). Chuck it up in the trusty B&D and maybe put some masking tap in the bit so you'll know when to stop before drilling into the bore (Oops!) Heck you can eyeball that dude good enough. Wherever you got the #29 bit you also probably bought a 8-40 bottoming tap. Can't use a regular taper tap as the hole is too shallow, but you'll muck through it.

Ever start a tap in a hole on a round surface, and also tapered in the other axis? Heck that's no big, and we can eyeball the tap in straight too!

What? The gunsmith had a jig and it was zip, zap, zip and done in 20 minutes! Sure, he maybe does a lot of drilling on barrels and actions so he needs it so he bought it, just like all the other stuff in his shop he bought to make it easier to do better proffessional and more accurate work. But you say after 4-5 D&T's it's surely been paid for? So you're saying he should charge less and less as it amortizes? Right. Just like Pep Boys just keeps dropping their prices for brake jobs, and in 37 more brake jobs the rotor turning lathe will be paid for so turning them will now be free :-)

...................Buckshot

[10-x]

So Right, the expertise and equipment to correctly do a job is usually worth the cost.
Whats the old saying?...if it was easy everybody could do it;-)

OTOH,A long time friend from VA and I went to the new local woodworking shop down the street, asked the owner what he would charge to biscuit and glue 2 pieces of 5/8" X 6" X 3 feet walnut boards together? He said $30.00!!!
Now thats kinda of high ,we figured $10-$15
Time to drag out my packed up equipment.:grin:[/SIZE]

[PatMarlin]

Yep. Buckshot coulda done that for $5, in five minutes... :mrgreen:

I woulda paid the $35 for a D&T cause I know what a tedious job that one can be, but somethings shops can definitely ease up on.

Like one shop I know they never charge to install scope bases and rings, if you buy them there and they bore site your scope. Good policy I think. They also have it done while you wait which is a rarity.

THis thread has gone into the dead horse zone... dang hijackers!!

[Scrounger]

I'm afraid Pat's right, there's never going to be agreement here. Basically we have two camps: Those who have lathes and good equipment who can do the job and maybe do it for pay, think $35 a fair price. And those who must take bullet and powder money to pay for the service think it too much. Wonder what the auto workers in Detroit think? I think low, reasonable prices generate business, especially repeat business, and prevent layoffs and bankruptcies. An ex-friend and gunshop owner told me years ago that there were two philosophies in business and he illustrated them this way: Would you rather sell four rifles for $200 or two rifles for $400? This assumes you are paying $200 or less for the rifles. Money received is the same but much greater profit and less paperwork in the $400 rifle example. His choice was the $400 rifle way. Now he is an ex-gunshop owner. Seems to me there are a lot more people like me who would pay $20 for the D&Ting of a gun than there are people who would pay $35. At some point in the costs of a project, those costs have exceeded the finished value and killed the project. And that doesn't help anybody.

[MT Gianni]

Those of us who can't ever seem to afford a lathe should be in the camp that it needs to pay for it's self but thats not always so. Gianni

[Bret4207]

Doesn't this all tie in with the immoral business practice thread? You have to stay

[oldhickory]

I had some time to kill last Jan. while waiting on tires to be mounted so I walked across the road to the local GM...Never again, $34.95 for a box of .30Carbine ammo!?

[Down South]

Thank God that ownership transfer is not a law here. I've bought several from friends and family.

[500bfrman]

Let's see, some guy comes in who has done something stupid, he needs repaired. Ok, did that, here's your fixed mess, where's my money?
Next guy comes in, who has done something stupid, he needs repaired . Ok, fixed that, here's the fixed mess, where's my money? Oh! So, you give a bottle of 12 year old scotch in appreciation of having it done right? Please, break something else, and come back soon!

Ummmmm. didn't they pay you to do it right?

[jim4065]

As somebody said in a movie "A man's got to learn his limitations..........."

Most of us have no business drilling a hole for a scope - it will be butchered to some degree. I won't touch "finicky" work - can't do it right. Unfortunately, many pretend to be competent and charge as if they were. Tipping a gunsmith? Give me a break - you gonna tip the doctor or a check-out lady at the supermarket? An "exemplary" job is just that - might see it once a year. We tip waitresses because they've been taught to hold their hand out - seems like a long line of people have their hand out nowadays. Just look at the "Big 3" in DC. Where is the self pride in doing a good job because that's what you do?

[PatMarlin]

Ummmmm. didn't they pay you to do it right?


mmm... yes but nothing says thank you like scotch... :mrgreen:

[targetshootr]

I called Gander the other day and he said WLP primers were $32 or $35 for 5000. Shewey. So I had to work out of town Thursday and went by the distributor where our range buys clay pigeons and got 10k for $210 and 8lbs of Universal for $99, plus tax. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what Gander pays.

[Ghugly]

I am inclined to tip people who do good work for me. Usually not in cash, more likely a box of donuts or something. One guy shoots .38's, so I've made it a point to drop off a box of wadcutters now and then. I figure that I'm just being friendly.

When I want something done, I tend to get a little more, a little faster, and pay a little less.