Alloy consistency witg scrap lead

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I have read some that suggests that alloy consistency can affect accuracy (not just hardness). So this has lead to me considering whether I should try to mix all my scrap lead into one consistent batch. Or if I should sort it and mark the batches.

I would prefer to mix it into one big batch, buy my pot won't hold it all at once. So I would have to melt some, pour out some ingots, add some other ingots, pour out more ingots, add the first ones back in...

Suggestions?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Get a large pot, or mark your batches.

[44magLeo]

I don't know what you have for lead, but I might sort it out to separate the pure lead from mixed lead. Keep the pure seperate for now. The rest I would sort by batch. The ingots you made from one batch go I one pile.
When you have it sorted out this way. You can take a bit from each pile in equal amounts to fill your pot. Run out as many ingots as you can. With my Lee pot I get about 18 ingots at a time. Put these in one stack.
This is one lot. Repeat with all your lead. Let's say you get 18 lots of 18 ingots.
Now when you want to cast just fill your pot with an ingot from each lot. This will give you a fairly consistent alloy.
I might not do this. I might do the pot full to get lots. Then cast some out of each lot to see which lot shoots the best.
You may find several of the lots shoot the same while others don't. I might then mix these lots together for a larger lot of that alloy. Get this lot checked with one of the testers that can tell you the composition of the lead.
Now on the stuff that doesn't shoot as well you can get it tested to see what it needs to get to match your best shooting lot.
Then you can mix that stuff to match what works for you.
With the pure separate if you need to you can mix it in you get the alloy to match.
I'm trying to determine this now with my alloys. A have some that's COWW, some SOWW, some is mixed with Lino. some pure, some I've been experimenting with. Trying to get alloy that works well at different velocities. I shoot light, medium and full bore loads in pistols.
I shoot a 44 mag lever action the same way.
I'm just getting into cast with larger rifle cartridges. I will need to find alloy that work well in those at light, medium and top loads.
I have much work top do.
So for you doing the ingot lots is a good start.
Leo

[gwpercle]

Larger pot ?

[fredj338]

For rifle loads shot out past 50y, but for handgun loads, I don't think alloy diff affect accuracy that much, at least to 25y. A big pot & blending 30-40# at a time would be more consistent.

[onelight]

Larger pot ?
The simplest way to mix one batch for alloy that is all the same from mixed lead.

[lightman]

I do my smelting in batches of between 350 and 400#, mostly wheel weights. I keep the batches separate. I'll put the odd battery cable end, broken linotype bar or odd roll of solder in the pot. I know from experience that wheel weights work well for my purposes and I also know that the odd stuff that I add won't hurt it.

So, I suggest you get a larger pot and burner and make larger batches. A cutoff propane tank and a Turkey frier burner are favorites. The drawback to larger batches is mainly contamination. I carefully hand sort my wheel weights and test the other stuff for zinc.

[Forrest r]

I've used range scrap/berm lead since 1990 for 99% +/- of my casting needs. Doing 150# at a time yields +/- 100# of ingots that run in the 8bhn/9bhn range air cooled and +/- 12bhn water dropped.

Keeping everything under 1800fps there's no accuracy issues.

[BK7saum]

I usually melt my range scrap in 300-400lb batches. However I haven't done a great job of marking each batch. They are marked as RL for range lead. I plan to mark them separately from now on as "RL" with another identifier, either a letter or number code. I tape two metal letter punches together and only have to make one strike to imprint RL on the ingot. Plus, my ingots are on the larger size ab about 8lbs each.

[mjwcaster]

I have adopted the mixed batch method, especially with range scrap.

Smelt multiple batches keeping them separated.
Then remelt, using an equal number of ingots from each previous batch.

There is then no limit to the final size of your consistent ‘batch’, just run as many smaller batches as needed.
Ie. you can process 50lbs per batch and want 500lbs total, just repeat 10 times (20 total).

Also no fixed time frame involved, I just finished cleaning and mixing a batch of range scrap I started last fall.

And a chance to test the first mixed batch and figure your alloy requirements if necessary.

I had a lot of issues last year with varying lead alloys, so I started using this mixed batch method exclusively.

Now my stash is at least consistent if not good.


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[mjwcaster]

Marking- I am also starting to keep better notes and mark batches.
Right now it is just marked with whatever I have laying around (chisel for now) but I want to get a stamp set.

That way I don’t have to worry about keeping everything separated like before, if ingots get mixed up they are still marked.

I am planning on finishing off all random lead laying around soon so I will then have marked and documented batches to work with.

Last year was a frustrating eye opening experience, I had gotten lucky before and whatever I melted down managed to just work.


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[Silvercreek Farmer]

I can fit 100 lbs or so in a cut off propane grill tank.

[relic]

Is there any chance that some of you that have had alloy tested by Roto Metals post the print out that they send back? I had a batch of mystery metal tested and they sent me a very nice detailed print out. I shared it here, many years ago. Anyway if you guys have a good known tested alloy how about sharing here? I just melted 50 ponds of small batches of left over alloys that produced good accurate boolits. Then BHN seemed to run between 12-15 but the boolits from these various batches shot good. I still think you can have a particulure alloy with a certain BHN but with a little different alloy compsition and they shoot differently. What do you think? Any way a ingot is off to Roto this week and I will post the results.

[quilbilly]

I have been buying scrap lead for my fishing jig business for 40+ years and have learned to recognize the "good stuff" by sight. For jigs it doesn't matter as long as it isn't zinc but for making my own boolit alloy, I watch for 98% pure or better. At the scrap dealer I look for shiny but dark colored lead with maybe even a little blue tint. I verify when I turn the identified good stuff into ingots when I watch to see a multi colored hue to the surface of the melted lead. If that hue is there, I set it aside for boolit alloy to be made later.
I almost hurt when I have to send some of that "good stuff" to the bottom of the ocean after getting a big load of it at the scrap dealer. Wall sheeting from X-ray rooms near hospitals is near 99% pure but so is a lot (but not all) of roofing lead.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Yes. I shoot flintlocks so I always guard the plumbers lead jealously. Other stuff that looks like it might work - I will cast a few test balls. I know I can squish plumber's lead completely out of round in a pair of channel locks pliers. Wheel weights I can only make teeth marks. The unknowns- I'll put a pure lead ball plus the unknown in the jaws and squeeze. If the unknown squishes along with the pure lead - it gets set aside for muzzleloader-only casting.

[ioon44]

I can fit 100 lbs or so in a cut off propane grill tank.

I cut my propane tank off at the top where the curve starts, this leaves a lot of room for stirring and it easily holds 250 lb depending on how strong you base is made.

[Ed_Shot]

I can fit 100 lbs or so in a cut off propane grill tank.

My cut off propane tank is the second best great idea I got from this forum ( #1 is my PID ). I do 100# batches of 3-2-95 alloy. I keep my soft lead and high-antimony alloy (as verified by BNE) seperate and use 95-5 solder for Sn. The pot will hold a lot more than 100#, which brings up a good point: if you get a big pot do some serious reinforcement of your propane burner stand.

[USSR]

I only buy lead of a known consistency, i.e. lead sheathing, lead pipe, COWW, linotype, etc. I then smelt them down separately. This does away with never knowing what alloy you have and allows you to create your own alloys according to need.

Don

[Martin Luber]

Anyone use some tin (say 2%) in their BP balls?

[bedbugbilly]

My experience has always been the same as forrest r

[kmw1954]

So this has lead to me considering whether I should try to mix all my scrap lead into one consistent batch. Or if I should sort it and mark the batches.

Suggestions?

Guess my first question to you is this scrap you refer to is it all from the same source or is it a mixture of different sources? Clip on WW, Stick on WW, Range scrap?

I have mine separate by original source. All my COWW was rendered at the same time though by small batches of about 20lbs. as that is all my small SS sauce pan and hot plate will hold. Then I have about 30lbs of SOWW, separate. 30lbs of roofing lead and lastly about 70lbs of range scrap that again was rendered down in smaller batches but all collected at the same time from the same location.

The range scrap I found to be pretty soft with a pencil test hardness of about 7-8 BHN while my COWW is running about 10-11 BHN.

I also this week took weighed amounts of this range scrap and then added 10% of what I believe is monotype to this and after a couple days rest it pencil checked at 10 BHN. I was able to mix up about 26lbs of this alloy.

[Green Frog]

Anyone use some tin (say 2%) in their BP balls?

When casting balls for muzzle loaders and C&B revolvers, I try to stay as close to pure lead as possible. I’m sure some tin and even antimony “sneak in” as I have used some scrap from a big ML range so who knows what somebody else may have thrown into their pot? Anyway, a big enough lot of ML range scrap should dilute down the Sn and Sb so that I’m casting pretty close to pure. With proper pot and mould temps you shouldn’t need any tin to get a good round ball fill out.

Froggie

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I mixed it by just weighing it out in batches. I will be keeping an eye on Craigslist for a cheap propane tank.

[The Dar]

I mixed it by just weighing it out in batches. I will be keeping an eye on Craigslist for a cheap propane tank.

Go to anyplace that refills propane tanks. They do have an expiration date on them and they always have a couple that people leave when they find they can't be filled. They will give them to you.

[kevin c]

If you haven't done it before, do a search here on how to purge the tank safely before cutting into it.

Are you just doing muzzle loaders? My understanding is that pure is the best for that. Combining multiple lots of scrap rather than keeping them separate runs the risk that one bad lot that isn't pure will make ALL your alloy less than pure. By how much depends on how big and how much different from pure that lot is.

If you're comfortable differentiating what you are willing to put in your front stuffers from the harder stuff, then you can have two main lots: pure very soft scrap, which you can combine or not, and harder scrap not suitable for muzzle loaders. If you load for centerfire, and have access to tin and antimony with which to make up new alloys, then it's convenient to make one big batch from the hard scrap and then have it analyzed by BNE.

I do what mjwcaster does. I make several 250# batches in my propane tank pot, and then combine ingots from each in a second melt, always using the same ratio. As I deplete the pot making a second batch of alloy, I replenish using the same ratio. Yes, it's twice the work and propane, but all the ingots in the second batch will have the same content. I once did that and ended up with 2000# of the same alloy. Even with your current set up, you can do the same, just on a smaller scale.

[trixter]

I know I am going to get slammed for this but, I use range scrap to make boolits. 99.98% of the shooting I do (Pistol and some .223) are used for killing paper. I melt the scrap and flux it with Ponderosa pine sawdust many times (more than once). Then make 1 lb ingots (Lyman ingot molds). I fill my Lyman Mag 25 and flux it again with more sawdust and after skimming the dross off flux again and leave the residue on top.
What I am trying to say is this; for shooting fun and ease of making the things needed, for me, just "run what you brung". I do not shoot any competitions. It is just a hobby that I have made as affordable as possible.

[Three44s]

I keep ww’s together, soft lead in another pile and Lino in still another.

I like to smelt ww’s and other dirty lead twice in big batches in their respective groups.

Three44s