44 Magnum loads

[garnerboy]

I've just started loading for my Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter. I wanted to know if 17 grains of 2400 under a 255 grain Keith style bullet would be good for deer? I have seen that Keith loaded these with 22 grains of 2400 but I feel this is over kill. I'm looking to get around 1000 fps.

[winelover]

Deer aren't bullet proof. Lesser loads/calibers have killed boatloads of deer. Think poachers. How does that load shoot for you in hunting situations? Off hand or using makeshift rests? Confidence in your ability, from practice, is what's the most important.

That being said, I wouldn't hesitate to use that load on deer. Providing, the bullet isn't cast of a hard alloy (<10 BHN) and distances are limited to 50-60 yards. Correct bullet placement is the key.

BTW, welcome to the madness.

Winelover

[Tatume]

Excellent load, assuming your SBH Hunter is chambered in 44 Rem Mag (mine is 45 Colt). Anything reasonably close to and less than or equal to Alliant's published max is good with 2400. Personally, I recommend 90%, which in the case of the 44 Rem Mag would be 18 gr.

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx?page=/reloaders/index.aspx&

[44MAG#1]

garnerboy. PM sent.

[Thumbcocker]

I killed several with a Keith over 18.5 of 2400

[Norske]

2400 has been changed since Elmer published his data of 22gr 2400 and a 245gr bullet. 20 gr of new 2400 = Elmer's 22 gr, so cut 10% from any data from the "old days."
According to Quickload, your powder/bullet combo is a low pressure load and the bullet speed should be a lot higher than 1000fps, even from a 7 1/2" barrel.

[JoeJames]

For a load that doesn't bother me at all, I shoot 7 grains of Unique under an Oregon Trail .431" 240 grain laser cast boolit - runs about 1150 fps in my Rossi R92 carbine. It is quite accurate.

[garnerboy]

Thanks for the info. I shot my gun with the above load and didn't lead much but not very accurate either. Maybe I will try more powder and see if it settles down.

[ABJ]

I have noticed in my Redhawk, increments of 2/10ths and adjusting crimps can make a lot of difference in accuracy. I have some H-4227 left over and a little less recoil than 2400, but 2400 delivered top notch accuracy. I'm at work and don't have my load notes but remember it's pretty close to current Max load.
Tony

[cowboy4evr]

I need to clear up a misconception , " that 2400 has changed " ! I contacted the powder co. and asked that very question . His response was " not to our knowledge " . He went on to add that if they changed it , they would have to. change the name to " 2300 or 2500 etc " as powder making is tightly regulated . He told me they still had the original batch they had to match up to , give or take a 4% lot to lot variation that the feds allow . If you had a bottle that was 3-4% slower burn rate ( which meets specs) and you were loading a max charge . Then bought a new bottle , used the same load and now experienced over pressure (cases stuck in cylinder etc)it's probably because the new bottle is 3-4% faster burn rate . You have just experienced a 6-8% change in burn rate . Remember , when getting a new bottle of your favorite powder it is always advisable to work up to your preferred load slowly . Start low and work up . People get hung up on the idea that it has changed because someone told them that they had read it somewhere but didn't remember where etc . That is not proof . I have just gave you proof that it has not changed . It came straight from the powder co themselves . Regards, Paul

[Larry Gibson]

cowboy4evr

Excellent post. I have posted actual pressure test results comparing Hercules 2400 to Alliant 2400 in several different cartridges showing, other than lot to lot variation, there is no change/difference. Myths, especially when some writer states them in a magazine, are hard to dispel, even with facts.

[44MAG#1]

I believe the 44 Rem Mag pressure specification is what changed.

When did it change?

[Tatume]

I believe it was the maximum pressure specification that changed. I don't know when, but:

44 Magnum pressure spec Speer #11: 43,500 CUP
44 Magnum pressure spec current SAAMI: 36,000 PSI (40,000 CUP)

[44MAG#1]

I believe it was the maximum pressure specification that changed. I don't know when, but:

44 Magnum pressure spec Speer #11: 43,500 CUP
44 Magnum pressure spec current SAAMI: 36,000 PSI (40,000 CUP)

Is the 43500 CUPthe actual average or the max allowable individual in a test string? The MPSM IS STILL 43200 CUP. That is what one needs to know.
Elmer Keith called CUP by the term PSI to. Of course both are pressure. Plus we have better more sophisticated measuring systems now too.
Who can actually say? Has anyone called SAAMI to find out? Would they even be able to answer the question now? Not saying they couldn't give an answer but would it be an accurate answer? Many years have passed.
Plus Mr Keith said his "Keith Load" averaged around 34000 PSI actually CUP, Peizo Transducer method wasn't used back then, by HP Whites labs so any of this really is not too relative as to whether the pressure has been changed or not.
Normal loading precautions and methods need to be exercised regardless.
This is just all in my opinion only but based on some investigation and reloading for around 49 years.
There are lot to lot variations in 2400 as they are in other powders. I posted chrono results on three lots of 2400 sometime back but they were picked apart so I deleted them.
Any way have a good day

[winelover]

Over the last forty five years, I burn't up many eight pound jug of 2400 powder in my Rugers. Never noticed any significant differences in those lots. Still wouldn't hesitate to use the Keith load. Still don't hesitate to use magnum primers, that were recommended, years ago. YMMV. I use 2400 for all my 44 and 357 loadings, as well as, Ruger only 45 Colt loads.

Winelover

[Larry Gibson]

I've pressure tested the RCBS 44-250-K bullet (253 to 257 gr fully dressed depending on alloy) with both Hercules and Alliant 2400. The average psi for a 10 shot test runs 34 - 36,000 psi, mostly hovering right around 35,000 psi which is the SAAMI MAP.

Have acquired a nice 4 cavity Lyman 429421 mould but haven't got around to casting any yet. When I do I will pressure test them with Alliant 2400.

[Tatume]

I've pressure tested the RCBS 44-250-K bullet (253 to 257 gr fully dressed depending on alloy) with both Hercules and Alliant 2400. The average psi for a 10 shot test runs 34 - 36,000 psi, mostly hovering right around 35,000 psi which is the SAAMI MAP.

Was the charge 20 or 22 gr?

[Larry Gibson]

22 gr

[Iowa Fox]

If your thinking about 1000 fps don't overlook unique. 9 grains will kill white tails one shot deader than a mackerel.

[444ttd]

my ruger sbh really likes the 44 special(instead of the magnum) and 255gr keith under 7.5gr of unique. it kills deer with authority.

[smithnframe]

10 grains of Unique should get you around 1000 f.p.s.

[Tatume]

https://www.alliantpowder.com/

[Norske]

A disadvantage with Unique or other fast powders is the possibility of double charging. My range has a S&W 57 on display that has only 1/2 of its cylinder. The shooter didn't get hurt, but the gun is ruined.

[cowboy4evr]

Double Charging with Unique is not a problem if you inspect the cases before seating the bullets . I use a reloading block and shine a flashlight down the cases before seating the bullets . A double charge would be " Very " evident . My favorite load load in 44 magnum , using Unique powder is 9.3 grs with the actual Keith bullet , " H&G 503 " . My experience with the Lyman 429421 is that it's close , but not exact like the H&G mold . Regards, Paul

[Three44s]

I am a very devoted fan of HS6 powder for the 44.

From the Hodgdon’s #26 manual: 250 gr of lead, 10.0 gr to 12.0 gr HS 6 powder. I use a magnum primer and get pressures in the 24,000 psi (I stopped at 11.8 gr just because it shoots so well)

My 4” Mountain Gun gives me 1066 FPS with a mere 7 FPS Standard Deviation and my 7.5” RH runs 1176 FPS with 15 FPS SD. (RCBS 250K)

It is EASY on the paws and the powder runs like butter on a hot skillet through a measure.

I run Unique and 2400, both great powders. I like Unique as Skeeter Skelton used it (8.5 gr in magnum cases) but prefer HS6 to go ver 1000 FPS in a 4” revolver. I run 2400 from 17.5 gr and a magnum primer, from around 18.5 I step down to standard primers. But primarily I run 2400 at 20.0 to 21 gr. (std primers)

But at that upper medium field load range HS 6 out performs both of these powders. You can find HS 6 loaded into the mid 30k range but that defeats the whole point of keeping lead in the mid 20k range. Obutrate it enough, but not exceed its yield strength.

My full throttle gets Mag primers and H110 and they will run the lead into that higher pressure but I fire so few of these that I suppose excessive leading is avoided.

Three44s

[Hardcast]

Three44s,

Why do you use a magnum primer with HS6? I assumed it was an easy to light powder.

[plowboysghost]

cowboy4evr

Excellent post. I have posted actual pressure test results comparing Hercules 2400 to Alliant 2400 in several different cartridges showing, other than lot to lot variation, there is no change/difference. Myths, especially when some writer states them in a magazine, are hard to dispel, even with facts.

As a lurker, I've referred to your postings on .44 Magnum/2400 pressures a few times. I like it when we can cut through all the internet-isms and get some real data.

I worked up to the Keith load(using RCBS 250-K and CCI standard primers) with no problem.

That level of power isn't technically "necessary" for most jobs I'll ever need to do with it, but I like my Magnums to be Magnums, from time to time.

[Three44s]

Three44s,

Why do you use a magnum primer with HS6? I assumed it was an easy to light powder.

Sorry for not checking in sooner!

HS6 is picked on for being dirty and as a spherical powder that is not fast, I went with magnum primers. Besides inside flash hole deburring, I also trim case lengths to a standard length appropriate to my batch of cases and then follow up with a good roll crimp.

All taken together, a standard deviation of just 7 FPS and accuracy to match, I do not see a reason to change to standard primers?

I have done a small batch of standard primers in a 41 Mag with all my other load prep and it was not nearly as clean, so that was the end of that.

Best regards and stay safe!

Three44s

[Hardcast]

Sorry for not checking in sooner!

HS6 is picked on for being dirty and as a spherical powder that is not fast, I went with magnum primers. Besides inside flash hole deburring, I also trim case lengths to a standard length appropriate to my batch of cases and then follow up with a good roll crimp.

All taken together, a standard deviation of just 7 FPS and accuracy to match, I do not see a reason to change to standard primers?

I have done a small batch of standard primers in a 41 Mag with all my other load prep and it was not nearly as clean, so that was the end of that.

Best regards and stay safe!

Three44s

I recently checked an old loading manual, Speer #11, and ALL the 44 Mag loads with HS6 are designated with magnum primers. So Speer agrees with you. I am waiting for my Model 29 cylinder to come back from DougGuy. When it does, I will be trying 2 powders- Universal and HS6. Thanks for the the info. :)

[Three44s]

Hardcast,

You will have two great powders there!

I like the Skeeter Skelton load 7.5 gr unique in a 44 spl. Or 8.5 gr in a 44 Mag case pushing the 250 gr of lead. Then when I want to turn up the heat a notch, I go to HS6.

I have used Universal some, it is cleaner than unique. I have tried unique with the 8.5 gr loading with a magnum primer out of curiosity and found the burn was cleaner.

Enjoy!

Three44s

[Loudenboomer]

Perhaps this was mentioned and I missed it but I believe The misconception of early 2400 powder being slightly weaker had to due with the cases. Many of the old time brass cases were lighter having greater case volume and therefore exhibiting less pressure with the same charge of 2400.

[Airman Basic]

Perhaps this was mentioned and I missed it but I believe The misconception of early 2400 powder being slightly weaker had to due with the cases. Many of the old time brass cases were lighter having greater case volume and therefore exhibiting less pressure with the same charge of 2400.
IIRC, the old balloon head cases were discontinued before the 44 mag was introduced, if that's what you were referring to, hate ending a sentence with a preposition. Sorry.

[Hardcast]

Back in the early 1970s there were only two 44 Mag loads commonly available, IIRC. Remington and Winchester both loaded full power mag ammo with a 240 grain swaged SWC GC. W-Ws version had a copper wash. I bought 6 boxes of those bullets to load myself. The only difference with the component bullets is they had no copper wash on them. Otherwise they were the same as loaded in factory ammo. I loaded them with the Winchester recommended charge of 24 or 25 grains of H110. They did not shoot very accurate for me. I still have most of them on my loading bench and now that I am old and do not need full power magnums, I wonder if they might be suitable for a mid-range load. Any thoughts on this? There may not be anyone here who has loaded soft swaged 44 mag bullets.

[Hardcast]

Hardcast,

You will have two great powders there!

I like the Skeeter Skelton load 7.5 gr unique in a 44 spl. Or 8.5 gr in a 44 Mag case pushing the 250 gr of lead. Then when I want to turn up the heat a notch, I go to HS6.

I have used Universal some, it is cleaner than unique. I have tried unique with the 8.5 gr loading with a magnum primer out of curiosity and found the burn was cleaner.

Enjoy!

Three44s


Thanks. That is encouraging. :)

[ddixie884]

I have loaded and fired some 240gr swcbb over 18gr 2400. They take up more room in the case than a Keith. The modern .44 Mag case probably has close to the same amount of space as the baloon head .44spl. Therefore I figured It would work. It made a pretty good load and was comfortable to shoot in my 4" 629. Clean enough to suit me as I use a pretty healthy crimp........